Who wants one now? Whoever wanted it already has it. I don't think it something to aspire towards- an underperforming large sheet of metal. Small, not large is the way to go. Analysts have already stated it's underperforming for Apple.
The same analysts who said the iPhone would fail, please.
Yes, poor quality. Look at the display on the Macbook. For a $1300+ machine, it's utter garbage. Also, I'm not impressed with the metal unibody. It dents easily and hinders wifi reception. Let's not get into the widespread problems the plastic Macbooks had with their cases.
Sure, there are always lemons in the batch, but Apple has been increasingly cutting corners while maintaining their unwarranted premium pricing.
I wanted to buy a new Macbook, but after seeing it in person, I couldn't justify throwing away $1300 on something that had a display worse than other displays I've seen in less expensive (or better spec'ed) notebooks.
The sad truth of the matter is that lots of people already have OS X running on various netbooks (albeit not without some hacks), so unless Apple whips up something that will excite both the fanboys and new Apple buyers, I'd say they're going to miss the bus with this one.
But like Steve said, he'd rather people buy and iPhone/iPod touch, anyway, than have to sell a low-cost netbook.
Their products are garbage but yet they have the highest consumer satisfaction rates, right.
Apple already has a net book. It is called an iPod Touch.
No, it's not a netbook. I can't type on an iPod touch, except with one or two fingers, very slowly, making plenty of mistakes. And viewing non-mobile web pages is painfully tedious.
I own a netbook and an iPod touch. The touch sits in a drawer. I prefer my click wheel iPod for listening to music and my netbook for internet access.
If Apple made a larger version of the iPod touch or iPhone, it would still have a hunt and peck visual keyboard; useless for any real typing.
A netbook from Apple would be great, but they'll never do it; certainly not for less than $1000.
No, it's not a netbook. I can't type on an iPod touch, except with one or two fingers, very slowly, making plenty of mistakes. And viewing non-mobile web pages is painfully tedious.
I own a netbook and an iPod touch. The touch sits in a drawer. I prefer my click wheel iPod for listening to music and my netbook for internet access.
If Apple made a larger version of the iPod touch or iPhone, it would still have a hunt and peck visual keyboard; useless for any real typing.
A netbook from Apple would be great, but they'll never do it; certainly not for less than $1000.
Each class of computer has its pros and cons. I prefer my iPhone for email and web browsing over my netbook. My netbook is for writing excessively when traveling light.
Yes, poor quality. Look at the display on the Macbook. For a $1300+ machine, it's utter garbage. Also, I'm not impressed with the metal unibody. It dents easily and hinders wifi reception. Let's not get into the widespread problems the plastic Macbooks had with their cases.
Sure, there are always lemons in the batch, but Apple has been increasingly cutting corners while maintaining their unwarranted premium pricing.
I wanted to buy a new Macbook, but after seeing it in person, I couldn't justify throwing away $1300 on something that had a display worse than other displays I've seen in less expensive (or better spec'ed) notebooks.
The sad truth of the matter is that lots of people already have OS X running on various netbooks (albeit not without some hacks), so unless Apple whips up something that will excite both the fanboys and new Apple buyers, I'd say they're going to miss the bus with this one.
But like Steve said, he'd rather people buy and iPhone/iPod touch, anyway, than have to sell a low-cost netbook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei
Their products are garbage but yet they have the highest consumer satisfaction rates, right.
I agree on the display for the new MacBook. I also thought it would be much better than it is. It's better than the one for the previous generation of MacBook, but not what I'd expect from a computer at the price it currently has.
Yeah, I just love doing my web surfing on a 3.5" screen with no physical keyboard
You do realize that the iPod touch is nowhere near as fully featured as a netbook, right?
I use my netbook as my primary computer. If I had a touch instead, what would I use to sync it? Oh, right, I'd have to buy a real computer for the touch to be at all usable.
i' curious what your 'non-primary' computer is if you use your netbook that exclusively and how heavily you use your primary machine. what application could you not live without? i'm guessing you're not running photoshop on it...
i wonder what the outcry would be if apple were to release something with those specs at that price point. i imagine the howl of outrage would be deafening...
if the argument is: we need something cheap and portable, the oqo (cute as it is) with a price of $1300 - $2700 is hardly a good example and might just strengthen the 'we can't deliver a cheap quality product' side.
this device seems to be aimed at the macbook air crowd, and i'm not sure it wins that fight either. i'd rather have a full size keyboard and a full size screen if i spend that kind of money.
the oqo has been around for a while if i remember correctly. is it selling? does it make money? have you seen one in the wild? just curious...
i' curious what your 'non-primary' computer is if you use your netbook that exclusively and how heavily you use your primary machine. what application could you not live without? i'm guessing you're not running photoshop on it...
Well it is the cheapest Apple laptop, hence the cheapest screen and there is nothing wrong with the screen, people just choose to make a big deal out of it.
First and foremost AIR is a conceptual mistake coupled to some poor engineering. AIR is not a netbook and never has been. Steve has as much as admitted that this is the case considering his public comments on netbooks. Apple simply isn't playing in the netbook market right now.
Because AIR simply doesn't play in the market we are talking about here. No matter whose vision you follow here ( iPhone on steroids, a tablet Mac or a netbook), we are not taliking about anything being close to AIR in size.
Dave
Regardless, you will never see a $400, $600 or even $800 laptop from Apple. They are charging $1800 for the MacBook AIR and it's selling. They aren't going to shrink the screen so they can charge less. It's never gonna happen. No netbook from Apple. Ever.
the iPhone/iTouch is the netbook you are looking for. I have an iPhone and Asus Eee PC. the iPhone does more out of the box, better, smaller and more portable. You can customize the iPhone/iTouch with the free apps from the AppStore.
Apple totally rethink the way portables work and interface while netbooks are just smaller crappier Windohs. Apple has to change the way the majority thinks about conventional computing.
This article made me laugh a little. Consumers don't automatically go for low cost during a recession. They go for whatever has the best benefit/cost ratio within their means. Netbooks do not have the best benefit/cost ratio. Their form factor prevents it from being useful for much more than surfing the internet and online communication, and while that's fine for some people, it's hardly a step up from touch screen handhelds like the iPod touch, which can do the same job while being much smaller. A lower specced notebook with excellent build quality would be a better value, since at least then it could be used for long periods of typing, which is important to far more people than simply being able to access the internet. Netbooks are simply being over hyped by geeks and analysts that know nothing. One of my friends bought an EeePC a few months ago and now it just sits unused next to her iMac and Macbook. Once she got over it's small size, it just became another gadget for random geekery.
Now, in regards to what Apple can do to better satisfy people who want a more portable notebook, the first step would be to get the price of the Macbook Air down. A lot of the expense is from using Intel's low power notebook processors instead of the Atom, which are more expensive than normal notebook processors. An obvious solution would be to use the Atom, which would reduce the price. However, I suspect the best solution may be to build a thin low cost Macbook around ARM processors, which would allow for much better battery life.
Now, in regards to what Apple can do to better satisfy people who want a more portable notebook, the first step would be to get the price of the Macbook Air down.
Sure, I understand that. However, I also understand that Apple isn't going to sell anything that is going to undercut the margins on it's Macbook line. Further, Jobs has gone on the record recently saying Apple could produce a five hundred dollar machine, but it isn't going to because it would be junk.
I have a new Mac book. The thing is 1) small, 2) light, and 3) fully capable. It also sports about as small a screen as I would be willing to have on my main computer. I don't see the point of Apple undercutting the profitable sales of it's Mac book line for a bare bone Mac. It simply isn't going to happen when Apple's computer sales continue to outpace the market.
What I do see Apple doing is building on the iPod Touch to make it a more practical web surfing platform. I say this because there was an article a while back saying the iPod Touch grew out of an Apple tablet prototype meant for surfing the Internet. I can see Apple offering an iPod Touch with a larger screen. Moreover, when you are away from home, I think the current iPod Touch is completely useful for 1) surfing the Internet, and 2) email. I just watched Pixar's Walle on mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by t0x
Yeah, I just love doing my web surfing on a 3.5" screen with no physical keyboard
You do realize that the iPod touch is nowhere near as fully featured as a netbook, right?
I use my netbook as my primary computer. If I had a touch instead, what would I use to sync it? Oh, right, I'd have to buy a real computer for the touch to be at all usable.
This is BS. Setting the Glossy versus Matte debate aside, the screen on the new Macbook is probably one of the best screens I have seen on any notebook in this price range. It is brighter then my old iBook and my father's second generation Macbook Pro. Further, if you view the new Macbook Pros and the Macbooks side by side there is barely a concernable difference in screen quality.
Moreover, the metal unibody may dent for some people ( I haven't witnessed it), but it certainly is an improvement over the iBooks and Macbook pros that came before it. The new body is 1) more solid, and 2) leads to more protection of the internal components. The plastic iBooks (the ones with the same design as the old Macbooks) had logic board issues because the case would flex eventually causing the logic board to separate from the board. THis is a much more solid system.
Granted I have family that works for Apple, so I only paid $1, 000 bucks for mine, but, setting the Firewire issue aside, it is the best Mac I have ever owned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by t0x
Yes, poor quality. Look at the display on the Macbook. For a $1300+ machine, it's utter garbage. Also, I'm not impressed with the metal unibody. It dents easily and hinders wifi reception. Let's not get into the widespread problems the plastic Macbooks had with their cases.
Sure, there are always lemons in the batch, but Apple has been increasingly cutting corners while maintaining their unwarranted premium pricing.
I wanted to buy a new Macbook, but after seeing it in person, I couldn't justify throwing away $1300 on something that had a display worse than other displays I've seen in less expensive (or better spec'ed) notebooks.
The sad truth of the matter is that lots of people already have OS X running on various netbooks (albeit not without some hacks), so unless Apple whips up something that will excite both the fanboys and new Apple buyers, I'd say they're going to miss the bus with this one.
But like Steve said, he'd rather people buy and iPhone/iPod touch, anyway, than have to sell a low-cost netbook.
The only truth you are saying is that the AIR "is neither a netbook nor a real (full features) laptop". That's right, but why should everything be in a strict category? why should everything be just black or white? The AIR is just another type of computer, either it fits your needs or it doesn't. If it doesn't that doesn't make it a bad product.
************
Back on the subject. I think there is room between the $399 iPod touch and the $999/1299 13" MacBook for a couple of products that would fit the netbook/notebook market before Apple can release a full Mac OS X tablet (or something like that).
1- MacBook mini (10-11") based on the 13" MacBook motherboard, still with a full keyboard (enclosure cut as close to the keys as possible (11.0-11.5" wide), 7.0-7.5" depth, no optical drive. Could use the MBA external ODD.
When the 13" MacBook is updated to 2.26/2.53GHz cpus or better (spring 2009), this MacBook mini could receive the leftovers (2.0/2.4GHz cpus). Apple could probably price those at $899-1099 and keep the 13" MacBook at $1299/1599.
Apply a modern Apple look on the Isamu Sanada mock-up below (image on the left).
Cons: more expensive and bigger than most netbooks, small trackpad
Pros: more powerful than any netbook, standard OS, standard apps
.
2- Bigger iPod touch (7" or so, 1024x600?), the best prototype mock-up I've seen so far, was from MacLife (image on the right):
Like 3 iPod touch side by side, it would do everything the iPod touch does + displays up to three apps at the same time + the dock (with alerts, email, etc...), stand-alone + sync with your Mac and/or your iPhone/iPod.
Additional apps: "Finder" + QuickLook so you can display almost anykind of file, Wifi software updates (no Mac needed). Some apps could be expanded to full screen (email, video, calendar, etc...)
Additional hardware: Bluetooth/USB for an external keyboard (or an integrated mini-keyboard that mimics the virtual keyboard of the iPod touch), video out. Stereo speakers, mic, iSight. It would probably need a multicore ARM cpu and better graphics GPU than the current iPod touch for all that (Summer 2009).
For storage, it could have the 1.8" 120GB HDD or SSD. Probably two models at $599/799. The prototype shows a rigid design, but I think it could be a folded one with 4 positions: closed, notebook, kiosk (as shown), tablet.
Cons: not really a "computer", not much editing capabilities
Pros: smaller than most netbooks (better autonomy), can be used by a larger audience (a real consumer product)
So, IMO, here are the possible $599 "netbook" and $899 notebook, "analysts" are dreaming/talking about...
These mockups have a pension for obsessing over handheld tablets ala Star Trek, but always with an overtly sexual fetish; hence the holographic image of a woman emitting forth from the Apple logo.
And we wonder how come Photoshop designs always belie reality.
Off topic but seeing this picture I got all excited. That thing would fit nicely into my living room. No need for much processing power. I am thinking of a touchscreen iTunes client. Wireless, of course. Great if it can access an iPhoto library and also if it could handle normal osx widgets such as weather. But essentially it should be a cheap control console. I'd buy one anyway.
Comments
Who wants one now? Whoever wanted it already has it. I don't think it something to aspire towards- an underperforming large sheet of metal. Small, not large is the way to go. Analysts have already stated it's underperforming for Apple.
The same analysts who said the iPhone would fail, please.
Yes, poor quality. Look at the display on the Macbook. For a $1300+ machine, it's utter garbage. Also, I'm not impressed with the metal unibody. It dents easily and hinders wifi reception. Let's not get into the widespread problems the plastic Macbooks had with their cases.
Sure, there are always lemons in the batch, but Apple has been increasingly cutting corners while maintaining their unwarranted premium pricing.
I wanted to buy a new Macbook, but after seeing it in person, I couldn't justify throwing away $1300 on something that had a display worse than other displays I've seen in less expensive (or better spec'ed) notebooks.
The sad truth of the matter is that lots of people already have OS X running on various netbooks (albeit not without some hacks), so unless Apple whips up something that will excite both the fanboys and new Apple buyers, I'd say they're going to miss the bus with this one.
But like Steve said, he'd rather people buy and iPhone/iPod touch, anyway, than have to sell a low-cost netbook.
Their products are garbage but yet they have the highest consumer satisfaction rates, right.
Based on what?
I would also like the doubters to prove that its not selling well.
Apple already has a net book. It is called an iPod Touch.
No, it's not a netbook. I can't type on an iPod touch, except with one or two fingers, very slowly, making plenty of mistakes. And viewing non-mobile web pages is painfully tedious.
I own a netbook and an iPod touch. The touch sits in a drawer. I prefer my click wheel iPod for listening to music and my netbook for internet access.
If Apple made a larger version of the iPod touch or iPhone, it would still have a hunt and peck visual keyboard; useless for any real typing.
A netbook from Apple would be great, but they'll never do it; certainly not for less than $1000.
No, it's not a netbook. I can't type on an iPod touch, except with one or two fingers, very slowly, making plenty of mistakes. And viewing non-mobile web pages is painfully tedious.
I own a netbook and an iPod touch. The touch sits in a drawer. I prefer my click wheel iPod for listening to music and my netbook for internet access.
If Apple made a larger version of the iPod touch or iPhone, it would still have a hunt and peck visual keyboard; useless for any real typing.
A netbook from Apple would be great, but they'll never do it; certainly not for less than $1000.
Each class of computer has its pros and cons. I prefer my iPhone for email and web browsing over my netbook. My netbook is for writing excessively when traveling light.
Yes, poor quality. Look at the display on the Macbook. For a $1300+ machine, it's utter garbage. Also, I'm not impressed with the metal unibody. It dents easily and hinders wifi reception. Let's not get into the widespread problems the plastic Macbooks had with their cases.
Sure, there are always lemons in the batch, but Apple has been increasingly cutting corners while maintaining their unwarranted premium pricing.
I wanted to buy a new Macbook, but after seeing it in person, I couldn't justify throwing away $1300 on something that had a display worse than other displays I've seen in less expensive (or better spec'ed) notebooks.
The sad truth of the matter is that lots of people already have OS X running on various netbooks (albeit not without some hacks), so unless Apple whips up something that will excite both the fanboys and new Apple buyers, I'd say they're going to miss the bus with this one.
But like Steve said, he'd rather people buy and iPhone/iPod touch, anyway, than have to sell a low-cost netbook.
Their products are garbage but yet they have the highest consumer satisfaction rates, right.
I agree on the display for the new MacBook. I also thought it would be much better than it is. It's better than the one for the previous generation of MacBook, but not what I'd expect from a computer at the price it currently has.
Yeah, I just love doing my web surfing on a 3.5" screen with no physical keyboard
You do realize that the iPod touch is nowhere near as fully featured as a netbook, right?
I use my netbook as my primary computer. If I had a touch instead, what would I use to sync it? Oh, right, I'd have to buy a real computer for the touch to be at all usable.
i' curious what your 'non-primary' computer is if you use your netbook that exclusively and how heavily you use your primary machine. what application could you not live without? i'm guessing you're not running photoshop on it...
WE NEED THOUSANDS for our University:
...snip...
Something like this:
OQO model 02
OQO model e2
http://www.oqo.com
...snip...
i wonder what the outcry would be if apple were to release something with those specs at that price point. i imagine the howl of outrage would be deafening...
if the argument is: we need something cheap and portable, the oqo (cute as it is) with a price of $1300 - $2700 is hardly a good example and might just strengthen the 'we can't deliver a cheap quality product' side.
this device seems to be aimed at the macbook air crowd, and i'm not sure it wins that fight either. i'd rather have a full size keyboard and a full size screen if i spend that kind of money.
the oqo has been around for a while if i remember correctly. is it selling? does it make money? have you seen one in the wild? just curious...
i' curious what your 'non-primary' computer is if you use your netbook that exclusively and how heavily you use your primary machine. what application could you not live without? i'm guessing you're not running photoshop on it...
Well it is the cheapest Apple laptop, hence the cheapest screen and there is nothing wrong with the screen, people just choose to make a big deal out of it.
First and foremost AIR is a conceptual mistake coupled to some poor engineering. AIR is not a netbook and never has been. Steve has as much as admitted that this is the case considering his public comments on netbooks. Apple simply isn't playing in the netbook market right now.
Because AIR simply doesn't play in the market we are talking about here. No matter whose vision you follow here ( iPhone on steroids, a tablet Mac or a netbook), we are not taliking about anything being close to AIR in size.
Dave
Regardless, you will never see a $400, $600 or even $800 laptop from Apple. They are charging $1800 for the MacBook AIR and it's selling. They aren't going to shrink the screen so they can charge less. It's never gonna happen. No netbook from Apple. Ever.
Besides, OS X runs fine on a MSI Wind ($349).
Apple totally rethink the way portables work and interface while netbooks are just smaller crappier Windohs. Apple has to change the way the majority thinks about conventional computing.
Now, in regards to what Apple can do to better satisfy people who want a more portable notebook, the first step would be to get the price of the Macbook Air down. A lot of the expense is from using Intel's low power notebook processors instead of the Atom, which are more expensive than normal notebook processors. An obvious solution would be to use the Atom, which would reduce the price. However, I suspect the best solution may be to build a thin low cost Macbook around ARM processors, which would allow for much better battery life.
Now, in regards to what Apple can do to better satisfy people who want a more portable notebook, the first step would be to get the price of the Macbook Air down.
Don't count on it.
I would also like the doubters to prove that its not selling well.
I'm not the one saying they are selling good or bad, so when someone says they are selling good, I'd like to know what gives him that impression.
I have a new Mac book. The thing is 1) small, 2) light, and 3) fully capable. It also sports about as small a screen as I would be willing to have on my main computer. I don't see the point of Apple undercutting the profitable sales of it's Mac book line for a bare bone Mac. It simply isn't going to happen when Apple's computer sales continue to outpace the market.
What I do see Apple doing is building on the iPod Touch to make it a more practical web surfing platform. I say this because there was an article a while back saying the iPod Touch grew out of an Apple tablet prototype meant for surfing the Internet. I can see Apple offering an iPod Touch with a larger screen. Moreover, when you are away from home, I think the current iPod Touch is completely useful for 1) surfing the Internet, and 2) email. I just watched Pixar's Walle on mine.
Yeah, I just love doing my web surfing on a 3.5" screen with no physical keyboard
You do realize that the iPod touch is nowhere near as fully featured as a netbook, right?
I use my netbook as my primary computer. If I had a touch instead, what would I use to sync it? Oh, right, I'd have to buy a real computer for the touch to be at all usable.
Moreover, the metal unibody may dent for some people ( I haven't witnessed it), but it certainly is an improvement over the iBooks and Macbook pros that came before it. The new body is 1) more solid, and 2) leads to more protection of the internal components. The plastic iBooks (the ones with the same design as the old Macbooks) had logic board issues because the case would flex eventually causing the logic board to separate from the board. THis is a much more solid system.
Granted I have family that works for Apple, so I only paid $1, 000 bucks for mine, but, setting the Firewire issue aside, it is the best Mac I have ever owned.
Yes, poor quality. Look at the display on the Macbook. For a $1300+ machine, it's utter garbage. Also, I'm not impressed with the metal unibody. It dents easily and hinders wifi reception. Let's not get into the widespread problems the plastic Macbooks had with their cases.
Sure, there are always lemons in the batch, but Apple has been increasingly cutting corners while maintaining their unwarranted premium pricing.
I wanted to buy a new Macbook, but after seeing it in person, I couldn't justify throwing away $1300 on something that had a display worse than other displays I've seen in less expensive (or better spec'ed) notebooks.
The sad truth of the matter is that lots of people already have OS X running on various netbooks (albeit not without some hacks), so unless Apple whips up something that will excite both the fanboys and new Apple buyers, I'd say they're going to miss the bus with this one.
But like Steve said, he'd rather people buy and iPhone/iPod touch, anyway, than have to sell a low-cost netbook.
Dave... again with the AIR?
The only truth you are saying is that the AIR "is neither a netbook nor a real (full features) laptop". That's right, but why should everything be in a strict category? why should everything be just black or white? The AIR is just another type of computer, either it fits your needs or it doesn't. If it doesn't that doesn't make it a bad product.
************
Back on the subject. I think there is room between the $399 iPod touch and the $999/1299 13" MacBook for a couple of products that would fit the netbook/notebook market before Apple can release a full Mac OS X tablet (or something like that).
1- MacBook mini (10-11") based on the 13" MacBook motherboard, still with a full keyboard (enclosure cut as close to the keys as possible (11.0-11.5" wide), 7.0-7.5" depth, no optical drive. Could use the MBA external ODD.
When the 13" MacBook is updated to 2.26/2.53GHz cpus or better (spring 2009), this MacBook mini could receive the leftovers (2.0/2.4GHz cpus). Apple could probably price those at $899-1099 and keep the 13" MacBook at $1299/1599.
Apply a modern Apple look on the Isamu Sanada mock-up below (image on the left).
Cons: more expensive and bigger than most netbooks, small trackpad
Pros: more powerful than any netbook, standard OS, standard apps
2- Bigger iPod touch (7" or so, 1024x600?), the best prototype mock-up I've seen so far, was from MacLife (image on the right):
Like 3 iPod touch side by side, it would do everything the iPod touch does + displays up to three apps at the same time + the dock (with alerts, email, etc...), stand-alone + sync with your Mac and/or your iPhone/iPod.
Additional apps: "Finder" + QuickLook so you can display almost anykind of file, Wifi software updates (no Mac needed). Some apps could be expanded to full screen (email, video, calendar, etc...)
Additional hardware: Bluetooth/USB for an external keyboard (or an integrated mini-keyboard that mimics the virtual keyboard of the iPod touch), video out. Stereo speakers, mic, iSight. It would probably need a multicore ARM cpu and better graphics GPU than the current iPod touch for all that (Summer 2009).
For storage, it could have the 1.8" 120GB HDD or SSD. Probably two models at $599/799. The prototype shows a rigid design, but I think it could be a folded one with 4 positions: closed, notebook, kiosk (as shown), tablet.
Cons: not really a "computer", not much editing capabilities
Pros: smaller than most netbooks (better autonomy), can be used by a larger audience (a real consumer product)
So, IMO, here are the possible $599 "netbook" and $899 notebook, "analysts" are dreaming/talking about...
These mockups have a pension for obsessing over handheld tablets ala Star Trek, but always with an overtly sexual fetish; hence the holographic image of a woman emitting forth from the Apple logo.
And we wonder how come Photoshop designs always belie reality.
Apple will not make a cell phone.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
Off topic but seeing this picture I got all excited. That thing would fit nicely into my living room. No need for much processing power. I am thinking of a touchscreen iTunes client. Wireless, of course. Great if it can access an iPhoto library and also if it could handle normal osx widgets such as weather. But essentially it should be a cheap control console. I'd buy one anyway.