JDK 1.4 -- WHEN?!?!

Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
Does anyone know when (if ever) Apple is going to support JDK 1.4? Our development shop is switching to JDK 1.4 and OS X only supports 1.3.1. JDK 1.4 has been released for months and has been in beta for over a year and a half. But OS X has neither the beta nor the released version of JDK 1.4. If I could at least get a beta for JDK 1.4 I could continue to use my Mac at work. If not, it looks like I'm going to have to drop the Mac for work related purposes. I also know a number of other developers who are interested in OS X but the lack of JDK 1.4 is a serious turn-off (and for many, a showstopper). What is incredibly frustrating about this is Apple is saying absolutely nothing about JDK 1.4. Avie in Xserve interview mentioned that it was coming but condescendingly stated that it was none of our business as to when it was coming. This attitude is really frustrating. I want to use the Mac but if they can't support the version of Java that many work places are using I won't be able to use it. This is really unfortunate.



The lack of information about JDK 1.4 out of Apple is what is the most frustrating of all.



<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 45
    rogue27rogue27 Posts: 607member
    Apple is tight lipped about everything. I'd imagine they're working on it, but I don't know if it will come out until Jaguar, if even then...
  • Reply 2 of 45
    overtoastyovertoasty Posts: 439member
    [quote]Originally posted by thalmrast:

    <strong>

    The lack of information about JDK 1.4 out of Apple is what is the most frustrating of all.



    <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Please fill me in; what's the big advantage of JDK 1.4 over the current 1.3.1?



    Thanks
  • Reply 3 of 45
    JDK 1.4 adds a number of useful things like higher performance networking, perl-ish regular expressions, assertions, and various other things. JDK 1.4 also adds the ability to use the beta javac compiler which provides pre-release access to generics. But even if JDK 1.4 added squat, my primary reason is that my work is using it so I have to use it as well. It's not an option. There is no "work around" other than ditching the Mac.
  • Reply 4 of 45
    snowstersnowster Posts: 68member
    If I were you I would contact Apple about your problem. (www.apple.com/developer) I think there is a beta of OS X Java 1.4 available for some developers. Ask them. I also read somewhere that 1.4 is coming soon after Jaguar is released and that it will propably require Jaguar.



    -Snowster
  • Reply 5 of 45
    chris cuillachris cuilla Posts: 4,825member
    Uh...I hope it is an optional update! Sorry, but where I work we move MUCH more slowly and cautiously before updating something as major as a JDK major release. We won't likely use 1.4 until 2003!



    That's the business/enterprise world.
  • Reply 6 of 45
    thuh freakthuh freak Posts: 2,664member
    might sound a bit daunting, but since java byte-code is cross-platform, you could (in theory) copy a friends' solaris or linux jdk srcs. Put them where they are req'd (i think /usr/jdk*, maybe /usr/share/jdk*, in the proper sub-folder(s) of course). That might work as a temp solution. I think there might even by an open-source linux jd kit somewhere (maybe java.sun.com), and since its open-source (& ur are obviously a developer) u should b able to compile+install it. Or, as a final and perhaps more sensible solution, stop using java and use c, objc, or cpp.



    That, or right your local Congressman and/or Senator and demand him to force Apple to get up to the times.
  • Reply 7 of 45
    airslufairsluf Posts: 1,861member
  • Reply 8 of 45
    Thanks for the information AirSluf! Even though the dates they are talking about are farther out than I was hoping for, just hearing some sort of date is very reassuring. Do you have any idea on how to get early access to the JDK 1.4 that apparently some developers are already getting? We deploy on Solaris/Linux but develop on OS X and Linux. So a alpha/beta 1.4 would probably work fine for me as I only need it so I can continue to use the Mac to do software development. I can see I need to go subscribe to the [email protected] mailing list... Thanks again for the info.
  • Reply 9 of 45
    fluffyfluffy Posts: 361member
    All select and premier developers have access to Java SDK 1.4 preview 1. Aa long as you have a software seed key you should be able to download it from connect.apple.com.
  • Reply 10 of 45
    thalmrastthalmrast Posts: 12member
    Thanks for the information Fluffy. Looks like I will have to look into ADC Select Membership.
  • Reply 11 of 45
    yurin8oryurin8or Posts: 120member
    Regardless of whether there are major or minor changes in a Java release, Apple should stay current. Given Sun's release cycle there are few excuses why a port of 1.4 wasn't ready 4 weeks after it went final (if not at the same time).



    Is it a lack of resources on Apple's part? Surely Apples' WebObjects people are also less than happy about this...at least one would hope so.



    Then again, maybe they expect you to ssh to a pc for java dev. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />



    cheers,

    Justin
  • Reply 12 of 45
    airslufairsluf Posts: 1,861member
  • Reply 13 of 45
    yurin8oryurin8or Posts: 120member
    [quote]Originally posted by AirSluf:

    <strong>

    Altogether I think Apple is doing a pretty good job in an increasingly adversarial relationship. Also, Linux ports of their first 2 JDKs were 18 months and a year behind due to growing pains. Apple having the second out in the 6-9 month window while simultaneously strengthening the remaining weak spots of 1.3.1 looks pretty good to me.



    [ 06-07-2002: Message edited by: AirSluf ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    ...and it is highly probable that the linux ports (blackdown etc) would have remained far behind official releases had Sun not chosen to take on that responsibility itself.



    i'm sorry, but I don't see how someone looking at java support on osx long term (or short term) can be smiling.



    if the relationship between sun and apple is as you say, then those using osx are likely to be second class citizens in the java dev community (ala os9).



    [ 06-08-2002: Message edited by: yurin8or ]</p>
  • Reply 14 of 45
    overtoastyovertoasty Posts: 439member
    OK ... how exactly does SUN make any money off Java anyway? What's the scheme there? Like, what's the deal with Linux and Java? I'm afraid I don't keep up much on that end of things ... And, as far as Apple's concerened ... how does that scenario work? Is it a one time charge to Apple for the use of the code? A % per-software charge, 'frinstance WebObjects @ $699, gives sun, say $30?



    'cause I dunno.



    Now, Apple's going after low hanging fruit in Education with Xserve, that's gotta piss off Sun, it's great for me however, being a WebObjects guy ... it'd be nice to see that technology getting more face time than it currently does

    with the suits, when it comes to deciding which golf course buddy's recommendation they're going to go with ...



    ... but if Sun's got their Web App server solution, and Apple's got theirs (WO) ... and now they're starting to duke it out for real in the

    server market thanks to Xserve ... how can Apple safely carve a beach-head for itself when it uses Sun technology and Sun's hurting for breathing room right now, just when Apple's looking for more pie?



    I mean "Rah-Rah Apple!" and all that, I seriously hope I didn't just waste the last few years of my life learning WebObjects ... ok, it's not that bad, I'm sure WO will survive in some form regardless of the Java scenario ...



    But alas, will it thrive? 'cause I'm not getting any younger, and damn it'd be nice to be able to afford a life.



    (yes, in that regard, I'm aware typing long winded pieces on message boards isn't helping my cause much, but still, work with me here people ...)
  • Reply 15 of 45
    airslufairsluf Posts: 1,861member
  • Reply 16 of 45
    jlljll Posts: 2,713member
    [quote]Originally posted by AirSluf:

    <strong>The big $$ though are in J2EE JDK's that run about $2k per seat.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    How can there be free J2EE servers then?
  • Reply 17 of 45
    airslufairsluf Posts: 1,861member
  • Reply 18 of 45
    yurin8oryurin8or Posts: 120member
    [quote]Originally posted by AirSluf:

    <strong>



    It's main competition right now is is WebObjects and .net.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    sun's main competition in the app server market is most definitely NOT webobjects (check the market shares of weblogic and websphere).



    why should sun "help" apple with java on osx? if apple cant keep up with the current state of the java community (because they're not prepared to commit the resources, etc), then I cant see why sun should help.



    if I was developing server-side on osx this would concern me.
  • Reply 19 of 45
    overtoastyovertoasty Posts: 439member
    [quote]Originally posted by yurin8or:

    <strong>





    why should sun "help" apple with java on osx?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    To sell more Java liscences I presume? Or have we got this all wrong ? .... damn, where's Yoda when you need 'em? Where's JYD? Aw hell, guess it's just me and the bottle tonight dear... uuuuurp.



    Oh, well, maybe that's harsh, but I would presume (and plese don't shoot the messenger of the presumer - go figure) that Sun, would be interested in spreading the Joy of Java (O'Reilly Book #1237, got the picture of Betty Page ... With-a-Spear ... on the cover, ohhhhh, and what a supple wrist in that inkwork, boy I'll tell ya ... darn those damn-dirty O'Reilly Etchmen!) and making a profit with a gift that - thru liscencing - may keep on giving, god willin'.



    So - and I'm hoping this might spark a tingle - what has Sun got to loose if they've got a plan already where they might, one day, make more money liscencing Java than selling it "direct" ...



    ... I mean, that was considered from the beginning, wasn't it? ... wasn't it?
  • Reply 20 of 45
    yurin8oryurin8or Posts: 120member
    sun, like apple, uses software to sell hardware. sun had little choice but to support wintel as a platform in order for it to be as popular as it is. unfortunately there is no such requirement on osx.



    apple has to do the pushing here folks...and it doesn't appear as if they're really that committed. things may change, but apples' java track record is far from good.



    who else can see webobject reverting back to to a cocoa/objective-c runtime?

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