<strong>OK ... how exactly does SUN make any money off Java anyway? What's the scheme there? Like, what's the deal with Linux and Java? </strong><hr></blockquote>
My first post .. lucky you
How does Sun make money from Java .. easy ? Mindshare. Think about it. If you had tens of thousands of dollars to spend on hardware just to run a Java app, what would you buy ?
I'll tell you .. a Sun Solaris box.
Heaps of people do this .. and understandably so. You would expect Sun to make Solaris the best Java platform on the market. So if your an large enterprise you don't want to RISK Linux or Apple. It MIGHT be better at running Java eg. XServer, but chances are it's not worth the risk.
Now there's an idea .. making software to sell hardware. Now I'm sure there's a company around that does that
Don't know about them, but Sun's software is aimed straight at your future wallet. Not that that's a bad thing, just how they are doing business.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sun has a very small percentage of the app server market campared to its peers. If it's too expensive for you, dont buy it.
I've been using Sun's JDK for many years now. The only thing it has cost me is the bandwidth to download it, and the benefits have far outweighed any costs.
<strong>Sure the JDKs are free. But the tools that make J2EE rock are quite pricey. I don't need them myself, but those tools are where Sun makes it's software $$ along with licensing the platform implementations.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There are "free" J2EE platforms out there (though they may not be sun certified). Go have a look. Companies that want to port Sun's JVM are typically java partners and yes this costs several million dollars (the last time i checked anyway), in addition to licensing any sun source.
I seriously doubt that Sun is directly profiting from its software. Anything substantial comes indirectly through hardware sales, etc. Prove me wrong.
<strong>I guess living in AU you haven't had any Sun Sales reps try to do the sales dance on your desk. Also, J2EE server isn't a tool either, it's a small .jar file that is available all over the web, from several different sources.
When you learn enough to talk without it coming out your non-facial orifices then maybe you can be taken seriously. Or maybe it's just slowing down enough top read a post and understand something about it before spouting off. Well, you would have to ditch the sopho-moronic handle you bequeathed yourself with as well.
In the immortal words of Dogbert. <disinterested paw wave with head looking away> Bah!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Are you serious? You have no freakin idea what Java or J2EE is. The last time I visited sun in Sydney,AU was to perform performance tuning/benchmarking over a 3 week period on their e10k...without the dancing salesmen.
And the name is Yurin8or. With a "Y", dumbass...unfortunately it has inspired you to write such yellow drivel. Here's a thought, before you go ranting on about J2EE/Java, etc. it might pay to know what you're talking about.
I'm still recovering from your "Also, J2EE server isn't a tool either, it's a small .jar file that is available all over the web, from several different sources".
u have an executable jar file?...that's just great mate. any difference in terminology is just your inexperience in using the java platform. do you even write code?
<strong>Well lessee, if we want to quibble, I got my BS CSci in 1986, have upgraded and gone back to school and am just about to finish my masters in September. I was coding before Java was a tear in Scott McNeally's eye, back when U of Minnesota was on the cutting edge with a first purchace of weird huge 21" black and white monitors hooked up to something called a Sun, not the old CDC mainframe. They only had the one line then. I was coding before there was a Macintosh. I used to bang out code on Osbournes, PDP-11's (assembler) and some other ugly blue and white thing with a 6" crt inside a metal case.
Hmmm, I guess I'm just talking out my ass sideways.
<strong>Guys, get a room. Seriously. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
The topic of the thread is when Apple will roll out Java 1.4.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Indeed.
Which will in all likelihood be as Jaguar Dev Tools which will include:
- ProjectBuilder 2.0
- GCC 3.X
- Java 1.4
As the big feature upgrades.
Java 1.4 has been out (minus any of the AWT, Java3D libraries) for a few months now, so I am quite sure they would have enough time to release it in time with Jaguar.
Which will in all likelihood be as Jaguar Dev Tools which will include:
- ProjectBuilder 2.0
- GCC 3.X
- Java 1.4
As the big feature upgrades.
Java 1.4 has been out (minus any of the AWT, Java3D libraries) for a few months now, so I am quite sure they would have enough time to release it in time with Jaguar.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As stated earlier in this thread by an Apple guy:
"Jaguar will include an updated version of our 1.3.1 implementation."
There aren't many things in 1.4 that are all that different from 1.3. The only really big addition, and long over due, is non-blocking IO. Now this isn't even a big deal to most Java programmers out there, since their stuck in little applet/servlet worlds. For appservers and servlet engines, yeah it will be cool, but it will take a while for all those big pieces of software to take advantage of it.
Anyway, if you're only writing code for 1.4 distributions, then that's a severe limitation on where you can deploy... I know in my company we won't upgrade to 1.4 for another few months atleast, perhaps later.
Comments
<strong>A way to hook you into buying the software to use it effectively.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Huh? JBoss isn't selling anything.
<strong>OK ... how exactly does SUN make any money off Java anyway? What's the scheme there? Like, what's the deal with Linux and Java? </strong><hr></blockquote>
My first post .. lucky you
How does Sun make money from Java .. easy ? Mindshare. Think about it. If you had tens of thousands of dollars to spend on hardware just to run a Java app, what would you buy ?
I'll tell you .. a Sun Solaris box.
Heaps of people do this .. and understandably so. You would expect Sun to make Solaris the best Java platform on the market. So if your an large enterprise you don't want to RISK Linux or Apple. It MIGHT be better at running Java eg. XServer, but chances are it's not worth the risk.
Now there's an idea .. making software to sell hardware. Now I'm sure there's a company around that does that
-- Naden
<strong>
Don't know about them, but Sun's software is aimed straight at your future wallet. Not that that's a bad thing, just how they are doing business.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sun has a very small percentage of the app server market campared to its peers. If it's too expensive for you, dont buy it.
I've been using Sun's JDK for many years now. The only thing it has cost me is the bandwidth to download it, and the benefits have far outweighed any costs.
<strong>Sure the JDKs are free. But the tools that make J2EE rock are quite pricey. I don't need them myself, but those tools are where Sun makes it's software $$ along with licensing the platform implementations.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There are "free" J2EE platforms out there (though they may not be sun certified). Go have a look. Companies that want to port Sun's JVM are typically java partners and yes this costs several million dollars (the last time i checked anyway), in addition to licensing any sun source.
I seriously doubt that Sun is directly profiting from its software. Anything substantial comes indirectly through hardware sales, etc. Prove me wrong.
<strong>I guess living in AU you haven't had any Sun Sales reps try to do the sales dance on your desk. Also, J2EE server isn't a tool either, it's a small .jar file that is available all over the web, from several different sources.
When you learn enough to talk without it coming out your non-facial orifices then maybe you can be taken seriously. Or maybe it's just slowing down enough top read a post and understand something about it before spouting off. Well, you would have to ditch the sopho-moronic handle you bequeathed yourself with as well.
In the immortal words of Dogbert. <disinterested paw wave with head looking away> Bah!</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Are you serious? You have no freakin idea what Java or J2EE is. The last time I visited sun in Sydney,AU was to perform performance tuning/benchmarking over a 3 week period on their e10k...without the dancing salesmen.
And the name is Yurin8or. With a "Y", dumbass...unfortunately it has inspired you to write such yellow drivel. Here's a thought, before you go ranting on about J2EE/Java, etc. it might pay to know what you're talking about.
<strong> :eek:
Bah!</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm still recovering from your "Also, J2EE server isn't a tool either, it's a small .jar file that is available all over the web, from several different sources".
Bah! <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />
<strong>Well lessee, if we want to quibble, I got my BS CSci in 1986, have upgraded and gone back to school and am just about to finish my masters in September. I was coding before Java was a tear in Scott McNeally's eye, back when U of Minnesota was on the cutting edge with a first purchace of weird huge 21" black and white monitors hooked up to something called a Sun, not the old CDC mainframe. They only had the one line then. I was coding before there was a Macintosh. I used to bang out code on Osbournes, PDP-11's (assembler) and some other ugly blue and white thing with a 6" crt inside a metal case.
Hmmm, I guess I'm just talking out my ass sideways.
[ 06-11-2002: Message edited by: AirSluf ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
ah, that explains it then...you're a has-been, prolly now in management that is hassled all day by dancin sun salesmen.
what was this thread about again???
The topic of the thread is when Apple will roll out Java 1.4.
<strong>Guys, get a room. Seriously. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
The topic of the thread is when Apple will roll out Java 1.4.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Indeed.
Which will in all likelihood be as Jaguar Dev Tools which will include:
- ProjectBuilder 2.0
- GCC 3.X
- Java 1.4
As the big feature upgrades.
Java 1.4 has been out (minus any of the AWT, Java3D libraries) for a few months now, so I am quite sure they would have enough time to release it in time with Jaguar.
<strong>
Indeed.
Which will in all likelihood be as Jaguar Dev Tools which will include:
- ProjectBuilder 2.0
- GCC 3.X
- Java 1.4
As the big feature upgrades.
Java 1.4 has been out (minus any of the AWT, Java3D libraries) for a few months now, so I am quite sure they would have enough time to release it in time with Jaguar.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As stated earlier in this thread by an Apple guy:
"Jaguar will include an updated version of our 1.3.1 implementation."
Expect 1.4 around October.
There aren't many things in 1.4 that are all that different from 1.3. The only really big addition, and long over due, is non-blocking IO. Now this isn't even a big deal to most Java programmers out there, since their stuck in little applet/servlet worlds. For appservers and servlet engines, yeah it will be cool, but it will take a while for all those big pieces of software to take advantage of it.
Anyway, if you're only writing code for 1.4 distributions, then that's a severe limitation on where you can deploy... I know in my company we won't upgrade to 1.4 for another few months atleast, perhaps later.
[ 06-14-2002: Message edited by: BlueJekyll ]</p>