There's no good reason for Apple to waste resources trying to expand the types of architectures they support (yes, let's declare Atom as a different architecture)
You can declare whatever you want but Atom is less of a new architecture than i7. So you start off with an arguement that isn't even valid.
Quote:
just to potentially save a few watts on a desktop computer. Further, how is changing the CPU going to save $200 to $300?
Atom might go for $30 buck compared to hundreds for a mobile processor. As to watts it would be a lot more than a few. Both of these savings can be significant for many applications.
In any event Atom won't be going into a Mini class computer as it just doesn't have the horsepower.
Quote:
We shouldn't lose site of the belief that outfits like Asus are using Atom because it's their only entry into the market. Apple doesn't need Atom to do that... they're already there.
I'm not sure what you are saying above. I'm not sure if Apple has any interest in Atom at all. It would however make a nice processor for a Mac Nano.
Yeah I know they don't have a Mac Nano yet but an extreme low power platform would be nice. Such a device could be used for AppleTV, a low power Mac, micro server or other performance limited devices. The problem is Apple is already using ARM extensively as it offers far better thermal performance. It also highlights that Apple doesn't care about architecture as it has volumes that make other considerations more important.
The Mac mini needs a general purpose CPU and decent GPU performance along with 64-bit support in Snow Leopard. The Atom cannot provide the performance to meet these needs.
The Apple TV needs to become a cheaper media extender yet does not need to be a general purpose box. The intel chip/chipset now allows for hacking which Apple tolerates but people buy the Apple TV primarily for it's video support and to a lesser extend music and photos and other stuff. So with this in mind it's easy to see why a SoC solution is better. ARM core mated with PowerVR Graphic and VXD decoding will deliver superlative video performance compared to what we have now in addition to being better supported via Quicktime X
Yes, the Mini needs a proper CPU so no Atoms or ARM chips - they most certainly can't use ARM in any desktop as no Mac apps would run. The Apple TV however needs to be cooler, cheaper and energy efficient so ARM and a PowerVR graphics chip would be fine. It may move to using the iphone OS, which would mean people couldn't modify it so much but Quicktime X as you say should mean they don't need to.
This also means it will get access to iphone apps although I'm not sure how easily the touch interaction will map to a remote. Perhaps developers will flag apps as compatible with the ATV or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider
Oh it's getting a makeover all right....
I think the bits jutting out the sides make it easier to carry but they make the machine take up so much more room unnecessarily. It also reminds me too much of Dell's high end models.
So Apple should definitely be able to make something with similar dimensions but much nicer looking. It wouldn't be the Mini though. I think the Mini will be smaller than the current form factor. It kind of has to be or people will ask why it's called the Mini.
They could base the Mini off the Macbook Air and just use a 2.5" drive vs 1.8". It's still an Nvidia chipset and it's shrunk down considerably.
This is fine for uses like server racks and low cost home computers. I really want to see a return of the Mac Cube. It even has its own identity already marked out. Core i7 would run a bit hot for Apple's liking though. If they could cool it well enough without being too noisy, it would sell very well. I suspect they may opt to go for Core 2 Quads which run much cooler and save them a great deal of engineering effort. They will keep the price down too.
Edit: it would seem that with Apple's move to Nvidia, Atom may be out of the picture entirely:
I think the bits jutting out the sides make it easier to carry but they make the machine take up so much more room unnecessarily. It also reminds me too much of Dell's high end models.
So Apple should definitely be able to make something with similar dimensions but much nicer looking. It wouldn't be the Mini though. I think the Mini will be smaller than the current form factor. It kind of has to be or people will ask why it's called the Mini.
They could base the Mini off the Macbook Air and just use a 2.5" drive vs 1.8". It's still an Nvidia chipset and it's shrunk down considerably.
This is fine for uses like server racks and low cost home computers. I really want to see a return of the Mac Cube. It even has its own identity already marked out. Core i7 would run a bit hot for Apple's liking though. If they could cool it well enough without being too noisy, it would sell very well. I suspect they may opt to go for Core 2 Quads which run much cooler and save them a great deal of engineering effort. They will keep the price down too.
The things out the side are also there to elevate it to improve cooling underneath it. They would actually be hollowed out to save on material. I would have mocked out the inside but it was Xmas eve
Yeah, I've been eyeing the shuttle for a while now. I think with an external power supply it would make a great Mac. Currently it uses a huge 500w PSU but that's because it wants to support 2 full sized SLI graphics cards, something unnecessary on the Mac.
Yeah, I've been eyeing the shuttle for a while now. I think with an external power supply it would make a great Mac. Currently it uses a huge 500w PSU but that's because it wants to support 2 full sized SLI graphics cards, something unnecessary on the Mac.
With Tylersburg Mac Pros presumably coming in the near future and Apple's new chipset alliance with nvidia, I'm hoping that SLI (and Crossfire) support show up in Snow Leopard.
That looks like it can fit a full size x16 card and only one x16 slot is a waste on x58.
And a low power half high video card is a joke in a core i7 system.
It's supposed to be an 8" cube, but maybe your right on housing a fuller sized card. but I disagree on only having one PCI Express slot being a waste. Apple doesn't even support SLI.. Although if youmean other kinds of expansion you are right. Maybe tonight I'll add some eSATA ports for shits & giggles.
With Tylersburg Mac Pros presumably coming in the near future and Apple's new chipset alliance with nvidia, I'm hoping that SLI (and Crossfire) support show up in Snow Leopard.
It's supposed to be an 8" cube, but maybe your right on housing a fuller sized card. but I disagree on only having one PCI Express slot being a waste. Apple doesn't even support SLI.. Although if youmean other kinds of expansion you are right. Maybe tonight I'll add some eSATA ports for shits & giggles.
Only one x16 slot is a waste of the x58 chipset 36 PCI-Express 2.0 lanes with only one x16 slot at least have a x4 slot as well + or have a lower cost chip set with less pci-e lanes.
Only one x16 slot is a waste of the x58 chipset 36 PCI-Express 2.0 lanes with only one x16 slot at least have a x4 slot as well + or have a lower cost chip set with less pci-e lanes.
First off some of those thirty six lanes get used internally. I'd be more concerned that the machine is using a conventional expansion slot myself. I'd like to see Apple adopt something more industrial myself. There is a good possibility too that Apple has a chipset in the works.
When I first saw this prototype design I like it right off. After a bit of thought I have these suggestions:
1.
Provide for at least two FireWire 3200 ports. Four would actually be nice if the rest of the hardware could keep up.
2.
The Six USB ports are good but I might change the split front to back. In a nut shell I'm not sure why you would make your most commonly used port so hard to get to. Especially in the day and age where USB dongles are always in use.
3.
Two gigabit Ethernet ports would be good.
4.
An internal PCI Express Slot designed for a new form factor Flash SSD. For the life of me I don't under stand why the industry has gone stupid with flash storage putting it in the same old mechanical enclosure. Worst yet is the slow disk interfaces used. Solid state secondary storage needs to be cheap and easy to install and the interface needs to be closer to the CPU. Of course a standard 4x slot would likely do the job, though you loose design flexibility.
5.
The flared out corners should become feet for even more cooling.
6.
A quality system monitor with LCD display would be nice.
First off some of those thirty six lanes get used internally. I'd be more concerned that the machine is using a conventional expansion slot myself. I'd like to see Apple adopt something more industrial myself. There is a good possibility too that Apple has a chipset in the works.
When I first saw this prototype design I like it right off. After a bit of thought I have these suggestions:
1.
Provide for at least two FireWire 3200 ports. Four would actually be nice if the rest of the hardware could keep up.
Dave
You can have 2 fire wire buses each with there own pci-e lane.
In a nut shell I'm not sure why you would make your most commonly used port so hard to get to. Especially in the day and age where USB dongles are always in use.
I agree with the first sentence, I think.
However, dongles tend to stay attached, and I'd rather have those at the back. The front ports are for more transient connections like cameras etc.
However, dongles tend to stay attached, and I'd rather have those at the back. The front ports are for more transient connections like cameras etc.
I agree with this.
Cameras, iPod cables, USB flash drives are all things I plug in for a short time. But then I unplug them and store the cables away. Things like hard drives, printers, keyboard, mouse should go in the back.
I did forget the headphone port in front, one thing I think is essential in the front.
However, dongles tend to stay attached, and I'd rather have those at the back. The front ports are for more transient connections like cameras etc.
Yeah not totally clear there. I was thinking flash drives myself which usage is expanding quickly. On the other hand you can have issues handling or moving dongles from machine to machine. I'd actually like to see three or four USB ports towards the front. They are especially useful for machine mounted PCs and other fixed installations.
You can have 2 fire wire buses each with there own pci-e lane.
Would that hold for the latest FireWire 3200 spec?
Quote:
x16 slot 2 wide + a x4 slot and maybe a x1 slot.
Well here is my idea: How about at least one forward facing card slot. This would be great for audio or video processing cards. It would also be great in labs and other applications where a lot of transient I/O gets connected to an I/O card.
Yeah I know the above implies using Macs for things they aren't usually associated with. The problem and frustration for many of us is that Mac OS is one of the better OSes available for such technical use. Or maybe I should say would be of they had a low cost machine with slots. I see such an option as useful for a wide range of users from audio engineers to rocket engineers. The uglyness could be easily dealt with by a removable bezel for those operating sans card.
Dave
PS
I like the idea of head phone jacks to the front too!
Well here is my idea: How about at least one forward facing card slot.
This thing is going to be called the Mac Freak. Cables will be coming out of all sides with holes in random bits of the case.
Apple would never allow this to happen as Ive would probably start crying.
If PCI slots go in, they will always come out the back. An Expresscard slot maybe at the front but not a full PCI slot. Even Expresscard cards have bits sticking out though so probably no.
Apple makes mess but they hide it away as best they can.
If this was a small machine then they wouldn't bother with any ports on the front including headphone ports because it's easy enough to access the back. The Mac Pro is a different story. You can't swivel one of those round easily.
For cost, I also think it would have an internal PSU. If it had a Core i7, an external one would surely look like the XBox 360 power brick.
I really would just like the miniature Mac Pro machine that was mocked up ages ago. Just have it the same setup as the internals of the Mac Pro with a side door but just room for two hard drives.
To be honest, I don't really think there needs to be room for PCI cards. For graphics, they can put in the dedicated chip in the latest MBP - mobile GPU keeps the heat and power draw down. This is fine for most people. For audio people, just add firewire and possibly ExpressCard at the back for add-ons.
This way they have room for more Ram slots, the internal PSU and a faster processor. No sense allowing for too much inside or you're just going to end up with a Mac Pro, albeit a noisy, ugly one.
This thing is going to be called the Mac Freak. Cables will be coming out of all sides with holes in random bits of the case.
That is total bull crap and you know it, time to grow up. The only mention here, so far, was for ports on the front and back.
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Apple would never allow this to happen as Ive would probably start crying.
If making practicle and usable computers makes little Jonny cry then let him cry. Frankly though he is to good of a designer to fail at meeting such a requirement. I can think of a number of PCs that have USB ports along with other ports that look just fine. Sure it is slightly more challenging than a blank panel at the front of the machine but it is not impossible
Quote:
If PCI slots go in, they will always come out the back. An Expresscard slot maybe at the front but not a full PCI slot. Even Expresscard cards have bits sticking out though so probably no.
This is extremely short sighted and frankly is the type of thinking that has companies like Motorola making the same old cell phones year after year with no innovation. If you don't look at the world from different angles from time to time you will get stuck in a rut.
Actually the Unibody MacHooks are a good example of Apple rebooting the design process and taking a significantly different approach. I'm still wondering how it can be cost effective but Apple isn't going broke so I don't worry about it.
Quote:
Apple makes mess but they hide it away as best they can.
What? We aren't talking about Apple here we are talking about making the product easier for the user to address.
Quote:
If this was a small machine then they wouldn't bother with any ports on the front including headphone ports because it's easy enough to access the back. The Mac Pro is a different story. You can't swivel one of those round easily.
Again you make assumptions on just where that PC will be placed. In any event reaching around to the back side is a much more difficult operation even on a laptop. I know this because I use one extensively on the plant floor.
Quote:
For cost, I also think it would have an internal PSU. If it had a Core i7, an external one would surely look like the XBox 360 power brick.
I actually have mixed feelings when it comes to external power supplies. As to i7 I don't expect that in a Mini until after the iMacs get the chip and then only after the low power variants come out. Unless of course Apple blows out the case size.
Quote:
I really would just like the miniature Mac Pro machine that was mocked up ages ago. Just have it the same setup as the internals of the Mac Pro with a side door but just room for two hard drives.
Apple can achieve the same goals in a much cheaper machine. At least looking at what I want to see in a desktop PC.
Quote:
To be honest, I don't really think there needs to be room for PCI cards. For graphics, they can put in the dedicated chip in the latest MBP - mobile GPU keeps the heat and power draw down. This is fine for most people. For audio people, just add firewire and possibly ExpressCard at the back for add-ons.
The need a reliable expansion slot. Expresscard isn't even remotely suitable for a desktop machine, it barely passes as a reliable laptop card. By the way for some apps USB or FireWire would not be fast enough.
As to what the cards should look like I don't really care other than to say full size PC expansion cards are out. I'm not sure why you mentioned graphics cards as this would not be the place for them. The idea is to support a wide range of I/O cards.
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This way they have room for more Ram slots, the internal PSU and a faster processor. No sense allowing for too much inside or you're just going to end up with a Mac Pro, albeit a noisy, ugly one.
That is why we don't want to support full size PC expansion cards. In the simplest form the would be small cards with a correspondingly small bracket to support, in most cases, a single type of I/O port. Run down to any electronics store an look at a PCI card for USB expansion, there are very few square inches to deal with. Having this one slot greatly reduces the grief Apple gets (very much deserved) for not supporting XYZ slot on machine W. If somebody thinks eSATA is worth then they just plug in the card they need to get the port.
Dave
Go with more slots and the approach would have to be a bit different.
There's always a seam round it and gaps. It wouldn't bother me personally but I don't see Apple going for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
I can think of a number of PCs that have USB ports along with other ports that look just fine.
Ports are different, you said PCI expansion slot. Ports can be designed into place. I would agree that a USB port or two on the front would be handy but it does complicate the design when it comes to being able to take it apart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Actually the Unibody MacHooks are a good example of Apple rebooting the design process and taking a significantly different approach.
In the opposite direction you want them to. They're making them with no screws and moulding everything into place exactly how they want and leaving out functionality (firewire) with no way of upgrading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
In any event reaching around to the back side is a much more difficult operation even on a laptop. I know this because I use one extensively on the plant floor.
It's the same on the iMac though and they're never putting ports on the front of that machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
I actually have mixed feelings when it comes to external power supplies. As to i7 I don't expect that in a Mini until after the iMacs get the chip and then only after the low power variants come out. Unless of course Apple blows out the case size.
They won't be putting PCI slots in a Mini either. If you add those, you'd be increasing the case size by quite a lot anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
The need a reliable expansion slot. Expresscard isn't even remotely suitable for a desktop machine, it barely passes as a reliable laptop card.
What do you mean reliable? If you mean compatibility, you just get Mac compatible cards like these:
Comments
Oh it's getting a makeover all right....
That looks like it can fit a full size x16 card and only one x16 slot is a waste on x58.
And a low power half high video card is a joke in a core i7 system.
Forget the 3.5" SATA drive. Pop in a 2.5" SATA drive socket or
better yet put two in. Over the lifetime of this computer the owner
would be wise to move to SSD asap. What good is a Quad Core if you're
sticking to a slow HDD?
The graphics slot needs to be full size as the poster above stated.
There's no good reason for Apple to waste resources trying to expand the types of architectures they support (yes, let's declare Atom as a different architecture)
You can declare whatever you want but Atom is less of a new architecture than i7. So you start off with an arguement that isn't even valid.
just to potentially save a few watts on a desktop computer. Further, how is changing the CPU going to save $200 to $300?
Atom might go for $30 buck compared to hundreds for a mobile processor. As to watts it would be a lot more than a few. Both of these savings can be significant for many applications.
In any event Atom won't be going into a Mini class computer as it just doesn't have the horsepower.
We shouldn't lose site of the belief that outfits like Asus are using Atom because it's their only entry into the market. Apple doesn't need Atom to do that... they're already there.
I'm not sure what you are saying above. I'm not sure if Apple has any interest in Atom at all. It would however make a nice processor for a Mac Nano.
Yeah I know they don't have a Mac Nano yet but an extreme low power platform would be nice. Such a device could be used for AppleTV, a low power Mac, micro server or other performance limited devices. The problem is Apple is already using ARM extensively as it offers far better thermal performance. It also highlights that Apple doesn't care about architecture as it has volumes that make other considerations more important.
Dave
The Mac mini needs a general purpose CPU and decent GPU performance along with 64-bit support in Snow Leopard. The Atom cannot provide the performance to meet these needs.
The Apple TV needs to become a cheaper media extender yet does not need to be a general purpose box. The intel chip/chipset now allows for hacking which Apple tolerates but people buy the Apple TV primarily for it's video support and to a lesser extend music and photos and other stuff. So with this in mind it's easy to see why a SoC solution is better. ARM core mated with PowerVR Graphic and VXD decoding will deliver superlative video performance compared to what we have now in addition to being better supported via Quicktime X
Yes, the Mini needs a proper CPU so no Atoms or ARM chips - they most certainly can't use ARM in any desktop as no Mac apps would run. The Apple TV however needs to be cooler, cheaper and energy efficient so ARM and a PowerVR graphics chip would be fine. It may move to using the iphone OS, which would mean people couldn't modify it so much but Quicktime X as you say should mean they don't need to.
This also means it will get access to iphone apps although I'm not sure how easily the touch interaction will map to a remote. Perhaps developers will flag apps as compatible with the ATV or not.
Oh it's getting a makeover all right....
I think the bits jutting out the sides make it easier to carry but they make the machine take up so much more room unnecessarily. It also reminds me too much of Dell's high end models.
Shuttle are making a cube Core i7:
http://www.jgadgets.com/2008/12/05/s...em-at-ces-2009
So Apple should definitely be able to make something with similar dimensions but much nicer looking. It wouldn't be the Mini though. I think the Mini will be smaller than the current form factor. It kind of has to be or people will ask why it's called the Mini.
They could base the Mini off the Macbook Air and just use a 2.5" drive vs 1.8". It's still an Nvidia chipset and it's shrunk down considerably.
This is fine for uses like server racks and low cost home computers. I really want to see a return of the Mac Cube. It even has its own identity already marked out. Core i7 would run a bit hot for Apple's liking though. If they could cool it well enough without being too noisy, it would sell very well. I suspect they may opt to go for Core 2 Quads which run much cooler and save them a great deal of engineering effort. They will keep the price down too.
Edit: it would seem that with Apple's move to Nvidia, Atom may be out of the picture entirely:
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/40702/135/
I'd lose the 6 USB ports and just stick with 4.
Forget the 3.5" SATA drive. Pop in a 2.5" SATA drive socket or
better yet put two in. Over the lifetime of this computer the owner
would be wise to move to SSD asap. What good is a Quad Core if you're
sticking to a slow HDD?
The graphics slot needs to be full size as the poster above stated.
You guys know it's not real right?
I think the bits jutting out the sides make it easier to carry but they make the machine take up so much more room unnecessarily. It also reminds me too much of Dell's high end models.
Shuttle are making a cube Core i7:
http://www.jgadgets.com/2008/12/05/s...em-at-ces-2009
So Apple should definitely be able to make something with similar dimensions but much nicer looking. It wouldn't be the Mini though. I think the Mini will be smaller than the current form factor. It kind of has to be or people will ask why it's called the Mini.
They could base the Mini off the Macbook Air and just use a 2.5" drive vs 1.8". It's still an Nvidia chipset and it's shrunk down considerably.
This is fine for uses like server racks and low cost home computers. I really want to see a return of the Mac Cube. It even has its own identity already marked out. Core i7 would run a bit hot for Apple's liking though. If they could cool it well enough without being too noisy, it would sell very well. I suspect they may opt to go for Core 2 Quads which run much cooler and save them a great deal of engineering effort. They will keep the price down too.
The things out the side are also there to elevate it to improve cooling underneath it. They would actually be hollowed out to save on material. I would have mocked out the inside but it was Xmas eve
Yeah, I've been eyeing the shuttle for a while now. I think with an external power supply it would make a great Mac. Currently it uses a huge 500w PSU but that's because it wants to support 2 full sized SLI graphics cards, something unnecessary on the Mac.
Yeah, I've been eyeing the shuttle for a while now. I think with an external power supply it would make a great Mac. Currently it uses a huge 500w PSU but that's because it wants to support 2 full sized SLI graphics cards, something unnecessary on the Mac.
With Tylersburg Mac Pros presumably coming in the near future and Apple's new chipset alliance with nvidia, I'm hoping that SLI (and Crossfire) support show up in Snow Leopard.
That looks like it can fit a full size x16 card and only one x16 slot is a waste on x58.
And a low power half high video card is a joke in a core i7 system.
It's supposed to be an 8" cube, but maybe your right on housing a fuller sized card. but I disagree on only having one PCI Express slot being a waste. Apple doesn't even support SLI.. Although if youmean other kinds of expansion you are right. Maybe tonight I'll add some eSATA ports for shits & giggles.
With Tylersburg Mac Pros presumably coming in the near future and Apple's new chipset alliance with nvidia, I'm hoping that SLI (and Crossfire) support show up in Snow Leopard.
You and me both.
It's supposed to be an 8" cube, but maybe your right on housing a fuller sized card. but I disagree on only having one PCI Express slot being a waste. Apple doesn't even support SLI.. Although if youmean other kinds of expansion you are right. Maybe tonight I'll add some eSATA ports for shits & giggles.
Only one x16 slot is a waste of the x58 chipset 36 PCI-Express 2.0 lanes with only one x16 slot at least have a x4 slot as well + or have a lower cost chip set with less pci-e lanes.
Only one x16 slot is a waste of the x58 chipset 36 PCI-Express 2.0 lanes with only one x16 slot at least have a x4 slot as well + or have a lower cost chip set with less pci-e lanes.
First off some of those thirty six lanes get used internally. I'd be more concerned that the machine is using a conventional expansion slot myself. I'd like to see Apple adopt something more industrial myself. There is a good possibility too that Apple has a chipset in the works.
When I first saw this prototype design I like it right off. After a bit of thought I have these suggestions:
1.
Provide for at least two FireWire 3200 ports. Four would actually be nice if the rest of the hardware could keep up.
2.
The Six USB ports are good but I might change the split front to back. In a nut shell I'm not sure why you would make your most commonly used port so hard to get to. Especially in the day and age where USB dongles are always in use.
3.
Two gigabit Ethernet ports would be good.
4.
An internal PCI Express Slot designed for a new form factor Flash SSD. For the life of me I don't under stand why the industry has gone stupid with flash storage putting it in the same old mechanical enclosure. Worst yet is the slow disk interfaces used. Solid state secondary storage needs to be cheap and easy to install and the interface needs to be closer to the CPU. Of course a standard 4x slot would likely do the job, though you loose design flexibility.
5.
The flared out corners should become feet for even more cooling.
6.
A quality system monitor with LCD display would be nice.
Dave
First off some of those thirty six lanes get used internally. I'd be more concerned that the machine is using a conventional expansion slot myself. I'd like to see Apple adopt something more industrial myself. There is a good possibility too that Apple has a chipset in the works.
When I first saw this prototype design I like it right off. After a bit of thought I have these suggestions:
1.
Provide for at least two FireWire 3200 ports. Four would actually be nice if the rest of the hardware could keep up.
Dave
You can have 2 fire wire buses each with there own pci-e lane.
x16 slot 2 wide + a x4 slot and maybe a x1 slot.
In a nut shell I'm not sure why you would make your most commonly used port so hard to get to. Especially in the day and age where USB dongles are always in use.
I agree with the first sentence, I think.
However, dongles tend to stay attached, and I'd rather have those at the back. The front ports are for more transient connections like cameras etc.
I agree with the first sentence, I think.
However, dongles tend to stay attached, and I'd rather have those at the back. The front ports are for more transient connections like cameras etc.
I agree with this.
Cameras, iPod cables, USB flash drives are all things I plug in for a short time. But then I unplug them and store the cables away. Things like hard drives, printers, keyboard, mouse should go in the back.
I did forget the headphone port in front, one thing I think is essential in the front.
I agree with the first sentence, I think.
However, dongles tend to stay attached, and I'd rather have those at the back. The front ports are for more transient connections like cameras etc.
Yeah not totally clear there. I was thinking flash drives myself which usage is expanding quickly. On the other hand you can have issues handling or moving dongles from machine to machine. I'd actually like to see three or four USB ports towards the front. They are especially useful for machine mounted PCs and other fixed installations.
Dave
You can have 2 fire wire buses each with there own pci-e lane.
Would that hold for the latest FireWire 3200 spec?
x16 slot 2 wide + a x4 slot and maybe a x1 slot.
Well here is my idea: How about at least one forward facing card slot. This would be great for audio or video processing cards. It would also be great in labs and other applications where a lot of transient I/O gets connected to an I/O card.
Yeah I know the above implies using Macs for things they aren't usually associated with. The problem and frustration for many of us is that Mac OS is one of the better OSes available for such technical use. Or maybe I should say would be of they had a low cost machine with slots. I see such an option as useful for a wide range of users from audio engineers to rocket engineers. The uglyness could be easily dealt with by a removable bezel for those operating sans card.
Dave
PS
I like the idea of head phone jacks to the front too!
D
Well here is my idea: How about at least one forward facing card slot.
Apple would never allow this to happen as Ive would probably start crying.
If PCI slots go in, they will always come out the back. An Expresscard slot maybe at the front but not a full PCI slot. Even Expresscard cards have bits sticking out though so probably no.
Apple makes mess but they hide it away as best they can.
If this was a small machine then they wouldn't bother with any ports on the front including headphone ports because it's easy enough to access the back. The Mac Pro is a different story. You can't swivel one of those round easily.
For cost, I also think it would have an internal PSU. If it had a Core i7, an external one would surely look like the XBox 360 power brick.
I really would just like the miniature Mac Pro machine that was mocked up ages ago. Just have it the same setup as the internals of the Mac Pro with a side door but just room for two hard drives.
To be honest, I don't really think there needs to be room for PCI cards. For graphics, they can put in the dedicated chip in the latest MBP - mobile GPU keeps the heat and power draw down. This is fine for most people. For audio people, just add firewire and possibly ExpressCard at the back for add-ons.
This way they have room for more Ram slots, the internal PSU and a faster processor. No sense allowing for too much inside or you're just going to end up with a Mac Pro, albeit a noisy, ugly one.
That is total bull crap and you know it, time to grow up. The only mention here, so far, was for ports on the front and back.
Apple would never allow this to happen as Ive would probably start crying.
If making practicle and usable computers makes little Jonny cry then let him cry. Frankly though he is to good of a designer to fail at meeting such a requirement. I can think of a number of PCs that have USB ports along with other ports that look just fine. Sure it is slightly more challenging than a blank panel at the front of the machine but it is not impossible
If PCI slots go in, they will always come out the back. An Expresscard slot maybe at the front but not a full PCI slot. Even Expresscard cards have bits sticking out though so probably no.
This is extremely short sighted and frankly is the type of thinking that has companies like Motorola making the same old cell phones year after year with no innovation. If you don't look at the world from different angles from time to time you will get stuck in a rut.
Actually the Unibody MacHooks are a good example of Apple rebooting the design process and taking a significantly different approach. I'm still wondering how it can be cost effective but Apple isn't going broke so I don't worry about it.
Apple makes mess but they hide it away as best they can.
What? We aren't talking about Apple here we are talking about making the product easier for the user to address.
If this was a small machine then they wouldn't bother with any ports on the front including headphone ports because it's easy enough to access the back. The Mac Pro is a different story. You can't swivel one of those round easily.
Again you make assumptions on just where that PC will be placed. In any event reaching around to the back side is a much more difficult operation even on a laptop. I know this because I use one extensively on the plant floor.
For cost, I also think it would have an internal PSU. If it had a Core i7, an external one would surely look like the XBox 360 power brick.
I actually have mixed feelings when it comes to external power supplies. As to i7 I don't expect that in a Mini until after the iMacs get the chip and then only after the low power variants come out. Unless of course Apple blows out the case size.
I really would just like the miniature Mac Pro machine that was mocked up ages ago. Just have it the same setup as the internals of the Mac Pro with a side door but just room for two hard drives.
Apple can achieve the same goals in a much cheaper machine. At least looking at what I want to see in a desktop PC.
To be honest, I don't really think there needs to be room for PCI cards. For graphics, they can put in the dedicated chip in the latest MBP - mobile GPU keeps the heat and power draw down. This is fine for most people. For audio people, just add firewire and possibly ExpressCard at the back for add-ons.
The need a reliable expansion slot. Expresscard isn't even remotely suitable for a desktop machine, it barely passes as a reliable laptop card. By the way for some apps USB or FireWire would not be fast enough.
As to what the cards should look like I don't really care other than to say full size PC expansion cards are out. I'm not sure why you mentioned graphics cards as this would not be the place for them. The idea is to support a wide range of I/O cards.
This way they have room for more Ram slots, the internal PSU and a faster processor. No sense allowing for too much inside or you're just going to end up with a Mac Pro, albeit a noisy, ugly one.
That is why we don't want to support full size PC expansion cards. In the simplest form the would be small cards with a correspondingly small bracket to support, in most cases, a single type of I/O port. Run down to any electronics store an look at a PCI card for USB expansion, there are very few square inches to deal with. Having this one slot greatly reduces the grief Apple gets (very much deserved) for not supporting XYZ slot on machine W. If somebody thinks eSATA is worth then they just plug in the card they need to get the port.
Dave
Go with more slots and the approach would have to be a bit different.
That is total bull crap and you know it, time to grow up. The only mention here, so far, was for ports on the front and back.
You said about expansion cards on the front. They look like this:
http://lion.xaraya.hu/images/ide64_p..._case_back.jpg
There's always a seam round it and gaps. It wouldn't bother me personally but I don't see Apple going for it.
I can think of a number of PCs that have USB ports along with other ports that look just fine.
Ports are different, you said PCI expansion slot. Ports can be designed into place. I would agree that a USB port or two on the front would be handy but it does complicate the design when it comes to being able to take it apart.
Actually the Unibody MacHooks are a good example of Apple rebooting the design process and taking a significantly different approach.
In the opposite direction you want them to. They're making them with no screws and moulding everything into place exactly how they want and leaving out functionality (firewire) with no way of upgrading.
In any event reaching around to the back side is a much more difficult operation even on a laptop. I know this because I use one extensively on the plant floor.
It's the same on the iMac though and they're never putting ports on the front of that machine.
I actually have mixed feelings when it comes to external power supplies. As to i7 I don't expect that in a Mini until after the iMacs get the chip and then only after the low power variants come out. Unless of course Apple blows out the case size.
They won't be putting PCI slots in a Mini either. If you add those, you'd be increasing the case size by quite a lot anyway.
The need a reliable expansion slot. Expresscard isn't even remotely suitable for a desktop machine, it barely passes as a reliable laptop card.
What do you mean reliable? If you mean compatibility, you just get Mac compatible cards like these:
http://www.welovemacs.com/pcexca34.html
http://www.freemacblog.com/how-to-us...r-macbook-pro/
Firewire covers video and audio capture adequately.
The idea is to support a wide range of I/O cards.
If somebody thinks eSATA is worth then they just plug in the card they need to get the port.
It would be easier for Apple to just include the eSATA port. You don't really need eSATA anyway as the internal drive will limit your data transfers.