Exactly. Mindboggling how so many people here can complain about the price when they suddenly get a siginificantly improved MBP 17 today than they did for the same money yesterday.
All the bitching about the new MBP seem to be by people who can't afford one anyway. Luckily for you Apple has a broad consumer grade product line that fits perfectly with smaller budgets.
BTW, when could the second rev's of the MBP 17" be expected?
Used to. The 17" used to be 2,499 (G4 only at that time) while 15" (G4) is 1999 and 12" is 1499 too. Amazing, is it? :P
I really like the new MBP 17" a lot but I have the new 15" MBP already. Love it anyway
You know, I hope Apple goes with "sealed but easy to open" configuration for all their laptops. For that matter, I wish they could do it for the Mini and iMac. After all, you don't need to access the internals very often for things like adding ram, swapping the HD or replacing the battery. Probably once in the life of the average machine, if that.
So by making the entire bottom plate come off with a bunch of little screws, you're actually much better off than the old hatch system, in that it takes a little more time to open but you have access to everything in there once you do. Certainly this beats the shit out of the old MacBook system of pulling little side panels off the battery compartment.
Come to think of it, where is all the bitching and moaning about how insane it is for Apple to make a laptop with a non-user replaceable battery, how Steve's control-freakish ways have really jumped the shark this time, etc.?
Hasn't the 17" model been around that price all along?
yep. the high end one was up around about there. but would you rather that they raised the price when they improved the insides.
my guess is that the delay was due to the battery. the 17in is more a professional prosumer model and for that crowd, battery life can be a major issue.
I was still rather disappointed that they didn't revamp the imacs at the same time. swap the graphics to match the macbook set up, add a display port/mini display along with the dvi/mini dvi (forget which is on the imac), perhaps bump the ram on the top model to 4gb standard instead of two. wouldn't be a huge change but it would be something.
It's a nice looking machine with good performance, but I wouldn't call it "Pro". I've been waiting for this update and I'm not that impressed, though I am glad that they finally lifted the RAM(!). I'm sure 8GB requires 2x4GB which are expensive, but the option is nice.
A competing model from Dell (Precision, totally different than their consumer junk) I've been looking at has:
yep. the high end one was up around about there. but would you rather that they raised the price when they improved the insides.
I don't know what you mean. I'm not saying that I wouldn't like to see a lower price. I'm certainly not saying it should be more expensive. I'm just saying that's the way it was, despite someone's impression that they were cheaper before. I think the final PPC version was cheaper, but I think that's in part because the processor was getting pretty old without much for an update.
Quote:
I was still rather disappointed that they didn't revamp the imacs at the same time. swap the graphics to match the macbook set up, add a display port/mini display along with the dvi/mini dvi (forget which is on the imac), perhaps bump the ram on the top model to 4gb standard instead of two. wouldn't be a huge change but it would be something.
Apple intros a $2800 laptop in the worst recession in 100 years? It's like Detroit coming out with mega SUVs as gas prices top $4.00/gallon.
Focus should be on minis, tablets and iPhone nano.
Worst recession in 100 years? Don't write stupid BS. Your hyperbole is self-discrediting.
Besides, if you want to flog the tired automotive analogies, Apple is more of an Aston-Martin company.
This is a replacement of a model that *surprise* also had the same price. It's not really an introduction of a new model.
I can't believe you put tablets in there either, tablet computers are a more expensive feature that hasn't found uses outside of small niches yet. So far, no computer maker has been able to make tablets stick. I think Apple may well be working on them, once they find a compelling use for one for broad consumer use, then they'll get it going. Not before, otherwise it's a waste of development resources.
I don't know if focusing on minis would really solve anything if it's really a 100 year recession, because if it's really that bad, people aren't going to be replacing their computers at all if they don't really have to.
It's a nice looking machine with good performance, but I wouldn't call it "Pro". I've been waiting for this update and I'm not that impressed, though I am glad that they finally lifted the RAM(!). I'm sure 8GB requires 2x4GB which are expensive, but the option is nice.
A competing model from Dell (Precision, totally different than their consumer junk) I've been looking at has:
- Intel quad-core CPU
- professional nVidia Quadro GPU
- supports 4x4GB = 16GB RAM
- dual HDD/SSD in RAID, Blu-ray burners
- 7200RPM harddrive standard
Yeah, and it only costs $1000 more. Weighs a whole 3 pounds more, requires a massive 210 Watt AC Adapter and gets a whopping 2 hours of battery life. Not to mention many of the reviews I've read say it is pretty unstable, and it is considered a Mobile Workstation, and NOT a Notebook, so it is NOT a competing model.
They need to tout "green" because it will be in the landfill pretty fast.
I don't see why you say it's disposable. Care to back that up? If it's about the battery, it looks like the battery is replaceable by anyone that can competently turn a screwdriver, or replaced by Apple for about the cost that they charged for a replacement battery for the previous model.
Is the photo real? I thought it was just a 'cut-away' view when I first saw it. Since it's unibody, the entire sides and bottom are one piece, if you took off the bottom, all the components would have to be attached to the top. Somebody who has taken apart a 15" should know the answer to this...
Can somebody at the show ask why they didn't use the quad-core - was it heat or power or cost - I'd love to know.... Or is it gonna just rock so much with Snow Leopard and two graphics cards that you won't care...
Does the matte option have glass? Or is it just like the current model, glassless...
The price is not an issue for someone like me who makes a living doing video and animation. You can literally pay for the machine with one project - and the liberation you get from being able to work from anywhere is priceless. You will pay almost anything for the fastest machine out there...
And Rain, you must be part of a sinister plot by Microsoft....
Is the photo real? I thought it was just a 'cut-away' view when I first saw it. Since it's unibody, the entire sides and bottom are one piece, if you took off the bottom, all the components would have to be attached to the top. Somebody who has taken apart a 15" should know the answer to this...
Yeah, the pic is real. Check out the iFixit guide for the 15". The unibody actually has the sides and entire top as one piece and the bottom cover separate. All the pieces are attached to the top/sides.
Quote:
Does the matte option have glass? Or is it just like the current model, glassless...
I believe Phil mentioned in the Keynote that they remove the glass and replace it with a bezel like in the old model, so I'm pretty sure the matte option is glassless.
Quote:
And Rain, you must be part of a sinister plot by Microsoft....
Seriously! He's posting in every thread about how everyone should be dumping Apple stock. \
Yeah, the pic is real. Check out the iFixit guide for the 15". The unibody actually has the sides and entire top as one piece and the bottom cover separate. All the pieces are attached to the top/sides.
I believe Phil mentioned in the Keynote that they remove the glass and replace it with a bezel like in the old model, so I'm pretty sure the matte option is glassless.
Seriously! He's posting in every thread about how everyone should be dumping Apple stock. \
cool - thanks!
Glassless would make sense to me, an Apple store Genius told me it was about accurate color calibration, and that you couldn't do perfect calibration through glass...
Nobody has mentioned that it also has a faster system bus than the current 17" - I ordered it!
They need to tout "green" because it will be in the landfill pretty fast.
These types of 'built in obsolescence' practices sure worked wonders for the big 3 didn't they... reduced to beggars pleading for corporate welfare.
This business plan will not work.
They are building fringe products for a boutique market, lacking the innovation to stand above the competition. This trend had better end with this latest failure.
The question is... can OSX carry the follies of Apple's hardware practices?
I have already sent out a 'do not buy' to my clients.
My advise to investors
Sell Sell Sell...
Glad I did at $183.20, so are my clients.
by any chance, are you funding psystar's lawsuit? just wondering ...
Hey, with Obama getting all of us tax breaks, why not get a new MacBook Pro? Mine will be replacing 10 year old B&W G3, version A. You don't see me crying and moaning about the cost, architecture, engineering etc. I am just happy I am getting a new computer and don't have to type on an IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad anymore.
If you can't afford it, move on and stop your bitchin'
You can fix lots of problems with this that you otherwise would need to take the drive out. It only works with fw so the new 15" usb-only laptops can no longer do this.
Comments
Exactly. Mindboggling how so many people here can complain about the price when they suddenly get a siginificantly improved MBP 17 today than they did for the same money yesterday.
All the bitching about the new MBP seem to be by people who can't afford one anyway. Luckily for you Apple has a broad consumer grade product line that fits perfectly with smaller budgets.
BTW, when could the second rev's of the MBP 17" be expected?
Used to. The 17" used to be 2,499 (G4 only at that time) while 15" (G4) is 1999 and 12" is 1499 too. Amazing, is it? :P
I really like the new MBP 17" a lot but I have the new 15" MBP already. Love it anyway
So by making the entire bottom plate come off with a bunch of little screws, you're actually much better off than the old hatch system, in that it takes a little more time to open but you have access to everything in there once you do. Certainly this beats the shit out of the old MacBook system of pulling little side panels off the battery compartment.
Come to think of it, where is all the bitching and moaning about how insane it is for Apple to make a laptop with a non-user replaceable battery, how Steve's control-freakish ways have really jumped the shark this time, etc.?
Hasn't the 17" model been around that price all along?
yep. the high end one was up around about there. but would you rather that they raised the price when they improved the insides.
my guess is that the delay was due to the battery. the 17in is more a professional prosumer model and for that crowd, battery life can be a major issue.
I was still rather disappointed that they didn't revamp the imacs at the same time. swap the graphics to match the macbook set up, add a display port/mini display along with the dvi/mini dvi (forget which is on the imac), perhaps bump the ram on the top model to 4gb standard instead of two. wouldn't be a huge change but it would be something.
A competing model from Dell (Precision, totally different than their consumer junk) I've been looking at has:
- Intel quad-core CPU
- professional nVidia Quadro GPU
- supports 4x4GB = 16GB RAM
- dual HDD/SSD in RAID, Blu-ray burners
- 7200RPM harddrive standard
- up to 8GB of RAM?
- up to 2.9 GHz Core 2? (though I wish they had a Quad Core option)
- up to 250SSD?
- 8hrs battery life?
- similar slim size, form factor
Focus should be on minis, tablets and iPhone nano.
yep. the high end one was up around about there. but would you rather that they raised the price when they improved the insides.
I don't know what you mean. I'm not saying that I wouldn't like to see a lower price. I'm certainly not saying it should be more expensive. I'm just saying that's the way it was, despite someone's impression that they were cheaper before. I think the final PPC version was cheaper, but I think that's in part because the processor was getting pretty old without much for an update.
I was still rather disappointed that they didn't revamp the imacs at the same time. swap the graphics to match the macbook set up, add a display port/mini display along with the dvi/mini dvi (forget which is on the imac), perhaps bump the ram on the top model to 4gb standard instead of two. wouldn't be a huge change but it would be something.
I don't think an updated iMac is too far away.
Apple intros a $2800 laptop in the worst recession in 100 years? It's like Detroit coming out with mega SUVs as gas prices top $4.00/gallon.
Focus should be on minis, tablets and iPhone nano.
Worst recession in 100 years? Don't write stupid BS. Your hyperbole is self-discrediting.
Besides, if you want to flog the tired automotive analogies, Apple is more of an Aston-Martin company.
This is a replacement of a model that *surprise* also had the same price. It's not really an introduction of a new model.
I can't believe you put tablets in there either, tablet computers are a more expensive feature that hasn't found uses outside of small niches yet. So far, no computer maker has been able to make tablets stick. I think Apple may well be working on them, once they find a compelling use for one for broad consumer use, then they'll get it going. Not before, otherwise it's a waste of development resources.
I don't know if focusing on minis would really solve anything if it's really a 100 year recession, because if it's really that bad, people aren't going to be replacing their computers at all if they don't really have to.
This is what the internals look like:
It looks like access to the HD will be easy once you get past the bottom panel.
Bottom Panel....9 screws...cakewalk.
Apple intros a $2800 laptop in the worst recession in 100 years? It's like Detroit coming out with mega SUVs as gas prices top $4.00/gallon.
Focus should be on minis, tablets and iPhone nano.
Worst recession since the Carter Administration, maybe, certainly not on the last 100 years, or have you forgotten the stock market crash of 1929?
And Detroit came out with their "Mega SUVs" when gas was $1.50 a gallon, due to the consumer demand.
Why would they want to focus on products that cost relatively more for less functionality?
It's a nice looking machine with good performance, but I wouldn't call it "Pro". I've been waiting for this update and I'm not that impressed, though I am glad that they finally lifted the RAM(!). I'm sure 8GB requires 2x4GB which are expensive, but the option is nice.
A competing model from Dell (Precision, totally different than their consumer junk) I've been looking at has:
- Intel quad-core CPU
- professional nVidia Quadro GPU
- supports 4x4GB = 16GB RAM
- dual HDD/SSD in RAID, Blu-ray burners
- 7200RPM harddrive standard
Yeah, and it only costs $1000 more. Weighs a whole 3 pounds more, requires a massive 210 Watt AC Adapter and gets a whopping 2 hours of battery life. Not to mention many of the reviews I've read say it is pretty unstable, and it is considered a Mobile Workstation, and NOT a Notebook, so it is NOT a competing model.
Looks hot.
Too bad it's a disposable piece of crap.
They need to tout "green" because it will be in the landfill pretty fast.
I don't see why you say it's disposable. Care to back that up? If it's about the battery, it looks like the battery is replaceable by anyone that can competently turn a screwdriver, or replaced by Apple for about the cost that they charged for a replacement battery for the previous model.
Can somebody at the show ask why they didn't use the quad-core - was it heat or power or cost - I'd love to know.... Or is it gonna just rock so much with Snow Leopard and two graphics cards that you won't care...
Does the matte option have glass? Or is it just like the current model, glassless...
The price is not an issue for someone like me who makes a living doing video and animation. You can literally pay for the machine with one project - and the liberation you get from being able to work from anywhere is priceless. You will pay almost anything for the fastest machine out there...
And Rain, you must be part of a sinister plot by Microsoft....
Is the photo real? I thought it was just a 'cut-away' view when I first saw it. Since it's unibody, the entire sides and bottom are one piece, if you took off the bottom, all the components would have to be attached to the top. Somebody who has taken apart a 15" should know the answer to this...
Yeah, the pic is real. Check out the iFixit guide for the 15". The unibody actually has the sides and entire top as one piece and the bottom cover separate. All the pieces are attached to the top/sides.
Does the matte option have glass? Or is it just like the current model, glassless...
I believe Phil mentioned in the Keynote that they remove the glass and replace it with a bezel like in the old model, so I'm pretty sure the matte option is glassless.
And Rain, you must be part of a sinister plot by Microsoft....
Seriously! He's posting in every thread about how everyone should be dumping Apple stock.
Yeah, the pic is real. Check out the iFixit guide for the 15". The unibody actually has the sides and entire top as one piece and the bottom cover separate. All the pieces are attached to the top/sides.
I believe Phil mentioned in the Keynote that they remove the glass and replace it with a bezel like in the old model, so I'm pretty sure the matte option is glassless.
Seriously! He's posting in every thread about how everyone should be dumping Apple stock.
cool - thanks!
Glassless would make sense to me, an Apple store Genius told me it was about accurate color calibration, and that you couldn't do perfect calibration through glass...
Nobody has mentioned that it also has a faster system bus than the current 17" - I ordered it!
Looks hot.
Too bad it's a disposable piece of crap.
They need to tout "green" because it will be in the landfill pretty fast.
These types of 'built in obsolescence' practices sure worked wonders for the big 3 didn't they... reduced to beggars pleading for corporate welfare.
This business plan will not work.
They are building fringe products for a boutique market, lacking the innovation to stand above the competition. This trend had better end with this latest failure.
The question is... can OSX carry the follies of Apple's hardware practices?
I have already sent out a 'do not buy' to my clients.
My advise to investors
Sell Sell Sell...
Glad I did at $183.20, so are my clients.
by any chance, are you funding psystar's lawsuit? just wondering ...
If you can't afford it, move on and stop your bitchin'
WTF ???
What on earth does having a FW800 port have ANYTHING to do with the need to access your hard drive?
I'll tell you what. NOTHING.
b/c if you hose your startup internal drive you can still start it in fw target disk mode.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1661
You can fix lots of problems with this that you otherwise would need to take the drive out. It only works with fw so the new 15" usb-only laptops can no longer do this.
Hey, you learned something today!