I'm with the majority here, who would pay for this? Any group of people that would need to collaborate on a document isn't using iWork. Sounds like the only organization that uses iWork to collaborate is Apple Inc, and I'm sure they get to use the service for free.
It looks like you're inadvertently presenting it as a chicken and egg problem without seeing it as one. If there aren't many collaboration tools available for iWork, then how are people supposed to collaborate with it?
Steve Jobs teased with a response to a criticism of .Mac with something like, "I couldn't agree more, and Apple is working on it..."
So here comes an opportunity to amp up MobileMe with an addition that seems custom made for Mobile Us. I'm Mobile and need to collaborate with others on a particular document...
Seems like a missed opportunity to offer a stronger set of features to MM. And yet another fee, although voluntary. And in this economy, it seems a little greedy.
It could very well be fantastic and a clear value, once it's out of beta. I can't wait to see what 3rd party developers do to copy Apple's approach. Maybe Apple will reverse course and throw it in with MM or iWork purchase.
I was hoping this would be a good way to give keynote presentations on a Windows PC, because there is no keynote player for Windows and Powerpoint exporting isn't perfect. Unfortunately, "viewing" documents in iwork.com doesn't currently include presenting. Hopefully that will come.
Another thought: This is eventually going to be heavily linked in to iPhone. Apple will push this as the way to share docs between iphones and computers.
Yeah, you can even see his face in the badly blurred out image. He's Dan. He's the main editor, and the contributing editor here lol. He's also the secretary and works part time in the cloakroom @ the weekends
I don't know any inside information but I always assumed that "Prince McClean" was actually Daniel but with editing "help" or oversight. The articles he produces here are a little less, um .. enthusiastic? It feels like someone has gone over one of his Roughly Drafted articles and taken out all (or most) of the emotionally based parts and toned down the rhetoric a bit. If "Prince McClean" 100% Dan then he is doing an excellent job of editing himself IMO.
Well, both Facebook & Flickr are part of a context, community if you like. A place where people can discover, tag, share and comment. Mobile lonely me is more like an isle....
Wow, I've been saying this for ages. Nice to hear it from someone else.
"Community" is the biggest thing missing from MobileMe IMO.
design a Keynote presentation on my computer, place in on iWork.com with all my fonts and run with slide transitions from a PC, I'm definitely on board.
At my job, our creative department uses Macs, but everyone else uses PC's. I always get stuck designing presentations in PowerPoint and have to use Arial font so it will be compatible with their computers.
It blows people away when they see Keynote presentation, but it's worthless unless I present it on my Mac which isn't always an option.
design a Keynote presentation on my computer, place in on iWork.com with all my fonts and run with slide transitions from a PC, I'm definitely on board.
At my job, our creative department uses Macs, but everyone else uses PC's. I always get stuck designing presentations in PowerPoint and have to use Arial font so it will be compatible with their computers.
It blows people away when they see Keynote presentation, but it's worthless unless I present it on my Mac which isn't always an option.
Unfortunately you can't do that - see my post a few above yours. I imagine it would be difficult to get all the cool effects, but at least it should be possible to do simple presentations. I personally avoid anything fancier than "Appear" anyway.
design a Keynote presentation on my computer, place in on iWork.com with all my fonts and run with slide transitions from a PC, I'm definitely on board.
At my job, our creative department uses Macs, but everyone else uses PC's. I always get stuck designing presentations in PowerPoint and have to use Arial font so it will be compatible with their computers.
It blows people away when they see Keynote presentation, but it's worthless unless I present it on my Mac which isn't always an option.
Best way I found was to save the Keynote presentation in QuickTime
I think it's an oversight that there's no iWork.com landing page. There should be one just like there is for me.com A stupid oversight on Apple's part. They could add a "buy now" button on the page for iWork '09 if they must. Sometimes you can't help but just wonder with Apple. Ridiculo-so!
Apple's new iWork.com service lifts one of the biggest obstacles facing its iWork office productivity suite by making it easier for iWork users to collaborate with others using Windows PC and Microsoft Office. Here's a first look at how the service works and what it does.
If this is included in the cost of iWork then they have a powerful incentive to dump windows/office. The ability to interact with office users without pain is a godsend. The ability to drop windows/office all together is even better.
Charging for it as a separate service would be a great disappointment.
If this is included in the cost of iWork then they have a powerful incentive to dump windows/office. The ability to interact with office users without pain is a godsend. The ability to drop windows/office all together is even better.
Charging for it as a separate service would be a great disappointment.
Folks are not interested in being simply milked..
AV
Let me get this straight.
You think that a software company should host up to a GB of your materials on their servers for up to 4 months so that others could view and comment on them for free.
In addition, let people view your materials without having to have the fonts on their computers that you used in your creation.
As well, let viewers download copies of your materials in the application you created them on, as a pdf or in a competitive program of their choice.
And if they don't do all this for 3 programs that cost you $26.33 each for free, you are being milked.
You think that a software company should host up to a GB of your materials on their servers for up to 4 months so that others could view and comment on them for free.
In addition, let people view your materials without having to have the fonts on their computers that you used in your creation.
As well, let viewers download copies of your materials in the application you created them on, as a pdf or in a competitive program of their choice.
And if they don't do all this for 3 programs that cost you $26.33 each for free, you are being milked.
Sounds like you don' mind yanking a few teats.
So you would pay extra for a service that lets you do these things? If so, my guess is that you're in a very small minority. Even Apple doesn't think people will pay for this right now. It's just barely more convenient than putting files on a server somewhere, or even just emailing.
So you would pay extra for a service that lets you do these things? If so, my guess is that you're in a very small minority. Even Apple doesn't think people will pay for this right now. It's just barely more convenient than putting files on a server somewhere, or even just emailing.
Only those with the most myopic of vision cannot see the trajectory that iWork.com is on. Apple's going to get thousands of people using iWork.com and getting familiar. They may expose editing online eventually during the free beta but I'm willing to bet cold hard ducats that Apple is going to enable editing from the get go in the paid version.
They're being pragmatic about iwork.com. Let people beta test it and let the infrastructure grow underneath before tossing in all of the features. Come on we all know collaboration tools have to be better than simply viewing a document and adding tracked changes. Hell Adobe Reader does that in conjunction with Acrobat Pro.
Apple needs and will likely extend iWork.com and iWork '09 to support the ability to fire up iWork and pull down the iWork.com changes without having to download the entire file again.
This will likely be exposed in a point release update for the suite prior to going live with the editing features.
iWork.com for $$$ is going to be much more featured than the iWork.com we see today. Apple is not stupid though the Apple press likes to feign stupidity for the sake of cranking out another article to generate add revenue.
Only those with the most myopic of vision cannot see the trajectory that iWork.com is on. Apple's going to get thousands of people using iWork.com and getting familiar. They may expose editing online eventually during the free beta but I'm willing to bet cold hard ducats that Apple is going to enable editing from the get go in the paid version.
Can't agree.
For those of us who made a living writing which involved input by others, and particularly when the composition had to be passed through more than a couple of people, the best format started with triple spaced hard copy, identifiable proofing pens (i.e., different colors), and a lot of patience.
The idea that sending out a manuscript and allowing others to change the copy is fraught with danger, i.e., whose edit supersedes another, who determines a change is correct and supported, who determines the final change and who keeps records of all the changes and where as it floats through space. Remember, the author is the usually the person that has the responsibility to accept, reject or incorporate an idea, a change or a correction.
As the adage goes, the more choices, the longer it takes to make a decision.
If we think about it, iWork.com is basically the way that we have passed along most of our documents for proofing, editing and approval, i.e., viewers simply highlight the copy in question and make their mark, beit a spelling or grammatical correction, a recommendation or suggestion re content or a deletion via on a post-it note. Each, identifying the proof-reader and thus making the author's decision to accept or reject the proposed alteration easier. Just like the origninal concept that underlines the basic principle of the Mac–keeping it simple stupid.
For those that feel otherwise, they can still download the original copy in their favorite application, do their dirty work and send it back for the author to cross-check it line-by line with other returns.
Either way, the process of sharing it with others is significantly faster, easier and safer than opening up your email program, attaching the file and then sending it; and remember, just how many times we have sent or received email with missing attachments?
Now with iWork.com, being notified of a 'change' can be immediate. Speeding up the decision process easier, faster and even faster than ever before.
I would suggest to that those that can, try it. I have been using it since day one, and man, it works beautifully. Uf anything else, it gives me another reason why I like MobileMe. Speaking of which, I am predicting that the fee for iWork.com will be nominal, and if any, a small incremental upcharge to those who subscribe to MobileMe.
In re-reading my message I don't think I articulated my point very well. let me add some clarification.
Editing :
I don't believe that everyone should get the right to actually edit the document whereby the document is modified on the spot.
I think the more accurate description would be.
Document originator completes rough draft and publishes to iwork.com
Those with permissions to view and markup document add their markups
The original document is "linked" to this only version. It can be refreshed at anytime to see the most recent markups.
The document originator can then accept/reject changes right from the desktop and have all changes merged back to the desktop without the need to download the file again
I think Apple is going down this path and with the linked documents feature in iWork the next step is simply to add this sort of linking to the published version of docs on iwork.com.
In re-reading my message I don't think I articulated my point very well. let me add some clarification.
Editing :
I don't believe that everyone should get the right to actually edit the document whereby the document is modified on the spot.
I think your suggestion would be a useful addition to the collaboration concept. But I don't see why multiple people can't add to the document itself if the document originator so chooses. Right now, Google Docs offers a chance to invite people as viewers or collaborators. I can't tell if the "viewers" can add notes or suggestions or not.
So you would pay extra for a service that lets you do these things? If so, my guess is that you're in a very small minority. Even Apple doesn't think people will pay for this right now. It's just barely more convenient than putting files on a server somewhere, or even just emailing.
But it's labeled as a beta project. I don't remember Apple ever charging for what they label a beta.
I think you're also being blind to the features and capabilities they are offering. It does offer this controlled mark-up ability (where others can't just change the base document itself) which was only a feature for Acrobat and other programs costing twice what iWork costs or more. Being able to project this capability to people that don't have iWork or a Mac has value too.
In re-reading my message I don't think I articulated my point very well. let me add some clarification.
Editing :
I don't believe that everyone should get the right to actually edit the document whereby the document is modified on the spot.
I think the more accurate description would be.
Document originator completes rough draft and publishes to iwork.com
Those with permissions to view and markup document add their markups
The original document is "linked" to this only version. It can be refreshed at anytime to see the most recent markups.
The document originator can then accept/reject changes right from the desktop and have all changes merged back to the desktop without the need to download the file again
I think Apple is going down this path and with the linked documents feature in iWork the next step is simply to add this sort of linking to the published version of docs on iwork.com.
You in fact can do that now via file sharing, which would be 'live'.
The primary problem that I envisage with your procedure, is that the changes can get lost in the translation.
Word, as you know, has a great way to follow a proofing. However, I would bet the farm that many don't use it, know how to use, and if anything, know how to save 'Versions". In addition, reviewing changes in Word can be daunting. Accepting a change only to want to return to the original can be exceptionally difficult and time consuming.
Having a electronic document that someone has edited with post-it notes is virtually a hard-copy markup that much like the old days is faster and easier to notice, read and understand.
As most of us in the agency business has evidenced, proofing an add or editorial on a computer screen is suicide. Best to make a hard copy.
But it's labeled as a beta project. I don't remember Apple ever charging for what they label a beta.
Apple hasn't offered public betas very often at all, let alone charge for them. The difference here is that they've announced that they will soon be charging for this service. Maybe a few people like abster2core will pay for it, but I imagine it will be an exceedingly small number. The number of people who need a collaborative writing tool is already small, and the fraction of those people who will see this as a solution is far smaller still.
But I'd be all for a great service that only a few people use. Unfortunately it's barely better than simply emailing or file-sharing documents and getting suggestions back via email, and nowhere near as powerful as google's and others' free services. I'm working on collaborative papers all the time, and I can't imagine ever using this, let alone paying for it.
If they improve it significantly in the future, great - we can talk about it then.
AUnfortunately it's barely better than simply emailing or file-sharing documents and getting suggestions back via email, and nowhere near as powerful as google's and others' free services. I'm working on collaborative papers all the time, and I can't imagine ever using this, let alone paying for it.
If they improve it significantly in the future, great - we can talk about it then.
Have you tried it. Have you been reading the reviews?
I haven't read a review or anybody that has tried it that agrees with you.
Comments
I'm with the majority here, who would pay for this? Any group of people that would need to collaborate on a document isn't using iWork. Sounds like the only organization that uses iWork to collaborate is Apple Inc, and I'm sure they get to use the service for free.
It looks like you're inadvertently presenting it as a chicken and egg problem without seeing it as one. If there aren't many collaboration tools available for iWork, then how are people supposed to collaborate with it?
So here comes an opportunity to amp up MobileMe with an addition that seems custom made for Mobile Us. I'm Mobile and need to collaborate with others on a particular document...
Seems like a missed opportunity to offer a stronger set of features to MM. And yet another fee, although voluntary. And in this economy, it seems a little greedy.
It could very well be fantastic and a clear value, once it's out of beta. I can't wait to see what 3rd party developers do to copy Apple's approach. Maybe Apple will reverse course and throw it in with MM or iWork purchase.
Another thought: This is eventually going to be heavily linked in to iPhone. Apple will push this as the way to share docs between iphones and computers.
Yeah, you can even see his face in the badly blurred out image. He's Dan. He's the main editor, and the contributing editor here lol. He's also the secretary and works part time in the cloakroom @ the weekends
I don't know any inside information but I always assumed that "Prince McClean" was actually Daniel but with editing "help" or oversight. The articles he produces here are a little less, um .. enthusiastic? It feels like someone has gone over one of his Roughly Drafted articles and taken out all (or most) of the emotionally based parts and toned down the rhetoric a bit. If "Prince McClean" 100% Dan then he is doing an excellent job of editing himself IMO.
Well, both Facebook & Flickr are part of a context, community if you like. A place where people can discover, tag, share and comment. Mobile lonely me is more like an isle....
Wow, I've been saying this for ages. Nice to hear it from someone else.
"Community" is the biggest thing missing from MobileMe IMO.
(and probably from Apple in general too).
At my job, our creative department uses Macs, but everyone else uses PC's. I always get stuck designing presentations in PowerPoint and have to use Arial font so it will be compatible with their computers.
It blows people away when they see Keynote presentation, but it's worthless unless I present it on my Mac which isn't always an option.
design a Keynote presentation on my computer, place in on iWork.com with all my fonts and run with slide transitions from a PC, I'm definitely on board.
At my job, our creative department uses Macs, but everyone else uses PC's. I always get stuck designing presentations in PowerPoint and have to use Arial font so it will be compatible with their computers.
It blows people away when they see Keynote presentation, but it's worthless unless I present it on my Mac which isn't always an option.
Unfortunately you can't do that - see my post a few above yours. I imagine it would be difficult to get all the cool effects, but at least it should be possible to do simple presentations. I personally avoid anything fancier than "Appear" anyway.
design a Keynote presentation on my computer, place in on iWork.com with all my fonts and run with slide transitions from a PC, I'm definitely on board.
At my job, our creative department uses Macs, but everyone else uses PC's. I always get stuck designing presentations in PowerPoint and have to use Arial font so it will be compatible with their computers.
It blows people away when they see Keynote presentation, but it's worthless unless I present it on my Mac which isn't always an option.
Best way I found was to save the Keynote presentation in QuickTime
Hello Dan!
I think it's an oversight that there's no iWork.com landing page. There should be one just like there is for me.com A stupid oversight on Apple's part. They could add a "buy now" button on the page for iWork '09 if they must. Sometimes you can't help but just wonder with Apple. Ridiculo-so!
publish.iwork.com
Apple's new iWork.com service lifts one of the biggest obstacles facing its iWork office productivity suite by making it easier for iWork users to collaborate with others using Windows PC and Microsoft Office. Here's a first look at how the service works and what it does.
If this is included in the cost of iWork then they have a powerful incentive to dump windows/office. The ability to interact with office users without pain is a godsend. The ability to drop windows/office all together is even better.
Charging for it as a separate service would be a great disappointment.
Folks are not interested in being simply milked..
AV
If this is included in the cost of iWork then they have a powerful incentive to dump windows/office. The ability to interact with office users without pain is a godsend. The ability to drop windows/office all together is even better.
Charging for it as a separate service would be a great disappointment.
Folks are not interested in being simply milked..
AV
Let me get this straight.
You think that a software company should host up to a GB of your materials on their servers for up to 4 months so that others could view and comment on them for free.
In addition, let people view your materials without having to have the fonts on their computers that you used in your creation.
As well, let viewers download copies of your materials in the application you created them on, as a pdf or in a competitive program of their choice.
And if they don't do all this for 3 programs that cost you $26.33 each for free, you are being milked.
Sounds like you don' mind yanking a few teats.
Let me get this straight.
You think that a software company should host up to a GB of your materials on their servers for up to 4 months so that others could view and comment on them for free.
In addition, let people view your materials without having to have the fonts on their computers that you used in your creation.
As well, let viewers download copies of your materials in the application you created them on, as a pdf or in a competitive program of their choice.
And if they don't do all this for 3 programs that cost you $26.33 each for free, you are being milked.
Sounds like you don' mind yanking a few teats.
So you would pay extra for a service that lets you do these things? If so, my guess is that you're in a very small minority. Even Apple doesn't think people will pay for this right now. It's just barely more convenient than putting files on a server somewhere, or even just emailing.
So you would pay extra for a service that lets you do these things? If so, my guess is that you're in a very small minority. Even Apple doesn't think people will pay for this right now. It's just barely more convenient than putting files on a server somewhere, or even just emailing.
Only those with the most myopic of vision cannot see the trajectory that iWork.com is on. Apple's going to get thousands of people using iWork.com and getting familiar. They may expose editing online eventually during the free beta but I'm willing to bet cold hard ducats that Apple is going to enable editing from the get go in the paid version.
They're being pragmatic about iwork.com. Let people beta test it and let the infrastructure grow underneath before tossing in all of the features. Come on we all know collaboration tools have to be better than simply viewing a document and adding tracked changes. Hell Adobe Reader does that in conjunction with Acrobat Pro.
Apple needs and will likely extend iWork.com and iWork '09 to support the ability to fire up iWork and pull down the iWork.com changes without having to download the entire file again.
This will likely be exposed in a point release update for the suite prior to going live with the editing features.
iWork.com for $$$ is going to be much more featured than the iWork.com we see today. Apple is not stupid though the Apple press likes to feign stupidity for the sake of cranking out another article to generate add revenue.
Only those with the most myopic of vision cannot see the trajectory that iWork.com is on. Apple's going to get thousands of people using iWork.com and getting familiar. They may expose editing online eventually during the free beta but I'm willing to bet cold hard ducats that Apple is going to enable editing from the get go in the paid version.
Can't agree.
For those of us who made a living writing which involved input by others, and particularly when the composition had to be passed through more than a couple of people, the best format started with triple spaced hard copy, identifiable proofing pens (i.e., different colors), and a lot of patience.
The idea that sending out a manuscript and allowing others to change the copy is fraught with danger, i.e., whose edit supersedes another, who determines a change is correct and supported, who determines the final change and who keeps records of all the changes and where as it floats through space. Remember, the author is the usually the person that has the responsibility to accept, reject or incorporate an idea, a change or a correction.
As the adage goes, the more choices, the longer it takes to make a decision.
If we think about it, iWork.com is basically the way that we have passed along most of our documents for proofing, editing and approval, i.e., viewers simply highlight the copy in question and make their mark, beit a spelling or grammatical correction, a recommendation or suggestion re content or a deletion via on a post-it note. Each, identifying the proof-reader and thus making the author's decision to accept or reject the proposed alteration easier. Just like the origninal concept that underlines the basic principle of the Mac–keeping it simple stupid.
For those that feel otherwise, they can still download the original copy in their favorite application, do their dirty work and send it back for the author to cross-check it line-by line with other returns.
Either way, the process of sharing it with others is significantly faster, easier and safer than opening up your email program, attaching the file and then sending it; and remember, just how many times we have sent or received email with missing attachments?
Now with iWork.com, being notified of a 'change' can be immediate. Speeding up the decision process easier, faster and even faster than ever before.
I would suggest to that those that can, try it. I have been using it since day one, and man, it works beautifully. Uf anything else, it gives me another reason why I like MobileMe. Speaking of which, I am predicting that the fee for iWork.com will be nominal, and if any, a small incremental upcharge to those who subscribe to MobileMe.
Editing :
I don't believe that everyone should get the right to actually edit the document whereby the document is modified on the spot.
I think the more accurate description would be.
- Document originator completes rough draft and publishes to iwork.com
- Those with permissions to view and markup document add their markups
- The original document is "linked" to this only version. It can be refreshed at anytime to see the most recent markups.
- The document originator can then accept/reject changes right from the desktop and have all changes merged back to the desktop without the need to download the file again
I think Apple is going down this path and with the linked documents feature in iWork the next step is simply to add this sort of linking to the published version of docs on iwork.com.In re-reading my message I don't think I articulated my point very well. let me add some clarification.
Editing :
I don't believe that everyone should get the right to actually edit the document whereby the document is modified on the spot.
I think your suggestion would be a useful addition to the collaboration concept. But I don't see why multiple people can't add to the document itself if the document originator so chooses. Right now, Google Docs offers a chance to invite people as viewers or collaborators. I can't tell if the "viewers" can add notes or suggestions or not.
So you would pay extra for a service that lets you do these things? If so, my guess is that you're in a very small minority. Even Apple doesn't think people will pay for this right now. It's just barely more convenient than putting files on a server somewhere, or even just emailing.
But it's labeled as a beta project. I don't remember Apple ever charging for what they label a beta.
I think you're also being blind to the features and capabilities they are offering. It does offer this controlled mark-up ability (where others can't just change the base document itself) which was only a feature for Acrobat and other programs costing twice what iWork costs or more. Being able to project this capability to people that don't have iWork or a Mac has value too.
In re-reading my message I don't think I articulated my point very well. let me add some clarification.
Editing :
I don't believe that everyone should get the right to actually edit the document whereby the document is modified on the spot.
I think the more accurate description would be.
- Document originator completes rough draft and publishes to iwork.com
- Those with permissions to view and markup document add their markups
- The original document is "linked" to this only version. It can be refreshed at anytime to see the most recent markups.
- The document originator can then accept/reject changes right from the desktop and have all changes merged back to the desktop without the need to download the file again
I think Apple is going down this path and with the linked documents feature in iWork the next step is simply to add this sort of linking to the published version of docs on iwork.com.You in fact can do that now via file sharing, which would be 'live'.
The primary problem that I envisage with your procedure, is that the changes can get lost in the translation.
Word, as you know, has a great way to follow a proofing. However, I would bet the farm that many don't use it, know how to use, and if anything, know how to save 'Versions". In addition, reviewing changes in Word can be daunting. Accepting a change only to want to return to the original can be exceptionally difficult and time consuming.
Having a electronic document that someone has edited with post-it notes is virtually a hard-copy markup that much like the old days is faster and easier to notice, read and understand.
As most of us in the agency business has evidenced, proofing an add or editorial on a computer screen is suicide. Best to make a hard copy.
But it's labeled as a beta project. I don't remember Apple ever charging for what they label a beta.
Apple hasn't offered public betas very often at all, let alone charge for them. The difference here is that they've announced that they will soon be charging for this service. Maybe a few people like abster2core will pay for it, but I imagine it will be an exceedingly small number. The number of people who need a collaborative writing tool is already small, and the fraction of those people who will see this as a solution is far smaller still.
But I'd be all for a great service that only a few people use. Unfortunately it's barely better than simply emailing or file-sharing documents and getting suggestions back via email, and nowhere near as powerful as google's and others' free services. I'm working on collaborative papers all the time, and I can't imagine ever using this, let alone paying for it.
If they improve it significantly in the future, great - we can talk about it then.
AUnfortunately it's barely better than simply emailing or file-sharing documents and getting suggestions back via email, and nowhere near as powerful as google's and others' free services. I'm working on collaborative papers all the time, and I can't imagine ever using this, let alone paying for it.
If they improve it significantly in the future, great - we can talk about it then.
Have you tried it. Have you been reading the reviews?
I haven't read a review or anybody that has tried it that agrees with you.