Now when Apple introduces their version it will seem as if they are playing catch up.
That must be very embarassing.
What are you talking about? Did you even see the demo? It looks as though they ripped Jobs' entire MW 2007 presentation and the WWDC launch. Talking about how developers can program apps easily by just using Javascript, HTML, CSS (Web 2.0).
It's not embarrassment, it's probably the same feeling when they realized Microsoft were making an OS and pretty much cloning the entire interface. They should feel cheated that Palm aren't giving so much as a nod to Apple for pretty much handing them a future.
Given that all those apps demoed were all webapps, how is everything you saw any different from opening the same style webapps in Safari on the iphone and flipping between them left to right and hitting the cross instead of swishing a card away?
Ok, you can't dial or SMS from a webapp but Safari remembers all your webapp states when you move to the dialler screen.
Look at the phone and anybody can see that they, like pretty much every smartphone manufacturer have ripped off the iphone design in software and hardware. Then they add a couple of minor features and suddenly it's Apple who should be embarrassed?
You could almost see the embarrassment on the faces of the Palm presenters when the crowd went silent whenever they demoed a feature everyone knew came out 2 years ago and yet still anticipated applause for.
What are you talking about? Did you even see the demo? It looks as though they ripped Jobs' entire MW 2007 presentation and the WWDC launch. Talking about how developers can program apps easily by just using Javascript, HTML, CSS (Web 2.0).
It's not embarrassment, it's probably the same feeling when they realized Microsoft were making an OS and pretty much cloning the entire interface. They should feel cheated that Palm aren't giving so much as a nod to Apple for pretty much handing them a future.
Given that all those apps demoed were all webapps, how is everything you saw any different from opening the same style webapps in Safari on the iphone and flipping between them left to right and hitting the cross instead of swishing a card away?
Ok, you can't dial or SMS from a webapp but Safari remembers all your webapp states when you move to the dialler screen.
Look at the phone and anybody can see that they, like pretty much every smartphone manufacturer have ripped off the iphone design in software and hardware. Then they add a couple of minor features and suddenly it's Apple who should be embarrassed?
You could almost see the embarrassment on the faces of the Palm presenters when the crowd went silent whenever they demoed a feature everyone knew came out 2 years ago and yet still anticipated applause for.
Yes yes obviously Palm knows they have to at the very least be up to the current standard which is what the iphone introduced. But as soon as that was over with in their keynote they went on to introduce the card interface for use with multitasking and the synergy system. That was the big draw.
The embarassment I'm talking about is what Apple might feel is if all Apple can do six months from now is introduce the iphone 3.0 with features that match the Palm Pre. The press would immediately gang up on Apple and say that they are playing catch up.
I think Apple was expecting Palm do to an ACTUAL ripoff of the iphone system....clearly this is not.
I betcha Apple was planning on countering Palm's supposed ripoff by coming out with a system that had multitasking and such.
But as it turns out Palm actually came out with totally new features and concepts including stuff that can be considered almost like a built-in mobileme. A feature by the way that the consumers don't have to pay $89.00 a year for. Wait, how much is mobileme again?
Palm has a nice HTML5, CSS and Javascript based UI/Framework on some unknown kernel. Mojo is the same kind of "SDK" that folks said wasn't good enough for the iPhone as near as I can tell.
To quote Engaget
"sounds kind of like it's a jacked up browser with memory management, like Google Chrome"
Apple's answer is called "Safari".
What should be interesting is how secure this ends up being. I hope their sandboxing is pretty solid.
Quote:
I don't know whats going to happen in the next six months. But if you guys think that Palm isn't going to make this happen your kidding yourselves. They have the same drive to succeed like Apple did Over 10 years ago when Jobs came back to save the company.
Really? We'll see how well Palm executes.
Quote:
Clearly Apple has to upgrade their mobile OSX to handle some things just as well as the Pre. And I'm not talking about cut and paste.
Palm's WebOS can do multitasking and the iphone can't and or won't.
How should Apple respond to this or should they?
OSX can multitask and you see it on the iPhone every day. What they choose not to do is allow 3rd party apps work in the background. If the iPhone didn't multitask you couldn't run any app and have anything happen in the background. No phone calls, no push email, no visual voicemail, no nothing.
It's a design decision for the iPhone SDK. One they can instantly relax should they desire.
The "deck" is a nice metaphor for Palm webOS but if you're running that many background apps on a phone...meh. It's a good way to run out of resources (memory, cpu and battery) in a hurry. It should be interesting to see how webOS managed device contention. I suppose via eventing.
There are a small class of apps that should run in the background. IM is one.
Quote:
WebOS has this HOT new feature called synergy that searches for and automatically merges all your data from multiple applications that are connected to the web as well as corporate servers.
The iphone can only dream about doing that.
So how should Apple respond to those features?
I sync many things via MobileMe. Calendar, contacts, notes, etc. If I want more I could do Plaxo again.
Quote:
Any ideas? Those ideas could be business strategies or straight up technological ideas (software and hardware).
I'm just trying to get a handle on what Apple might do.
Not overreact is one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut
They must rethink the OS indeed. I betcha the Palm Pre's debut really really took the Apple iphone team off guard and must have hurt at least some of them personally.
Dream on.
Quote:
Because I realize now that the iphone team's intention must have been to debut a product with multitasking.
They did. It was a design choice not to allow user apps to run in the background.
Quote:
I think Apple fully expected to be the first company to debut a multitouch modern smartphone with those features.
Now when Apple introduces their version it will seem as if they are playing catch up.
That must be very embarassing.
You know, you keep writing about OSX and operating systems. It might behoove you to learn a little more about them.
I think Apple fully expected to be the first company to debut a multitouch modern smartphone with those features.
Now when Apple introduces their version it will seem as if they are playing catch up.
That must be very embarassing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
You know, you keep writing about OSX and operating systems. It might behoove you to learn a little more about them.
Umm...no.....I'm not writing directly about OSX and operating systems now am I. I'm writing about features about OSes commonly known to the general public.
But in this particular instance in the above quote I'm not talking about features at all. I'm talking about what the public will perceive when Apple introduces a new product with comparable features to WebOS.
It would seem that the hardware on the Palm Pre is such that its going to support the multitasking WebOS without too much problems (it better).
Again, when Apple introduces their version of what Palm introduced it will seem as though Apple is playing catchup. And whatever the reality is considered to be in Apple's minds, its that perception in the marketplace is what might end up being embarrassing for Apple.
Now if your about to teach me about the intricacies of OSX they hey please, by all means do. I would like to learn. But that has nothing to do with what I said in that post.
"First off, as "webOS" implies, apps written for the platform are web-based -- HTML, JavaScript, that sort of stuff -- but unlike Apple's original vision for the iPhone, Palm's going to include libraries that allow devs to tap in to the Pre's hardware capabilities and interact closely with services exposed by the operating system. For users, that means apps are hopefully going to be rich and powerful, but graphically intensive, heavily interactive things -- think games, mainly -- aren't likely to happen. That's not to say Palm won't eventually offer a binary SDK, but the tools they appear to be offering up front won't get the job done, and we've confirmed in talking to Palm that Pre gaming was never a priority for the company during the development cycle. In a nutshell: Tetris, yes; Tetrisphere, not so much."
So yes, the SDK is a little better than the original iPhone "SDK" but isn't going to provide for any kind of app that can't run as an Ajax webapp.
"First off, as "webOS" implies, apps written for the platform are web-based -- HTML, JavaScript, that sort of stuff -- but unlike Apple's original vision for the iPhone, Palm's going to include libraries that allow devs to tap in to the Pre's hardware capabilities and interact closely with services exposed by the operating system. For users, that means apps are hopefully going to be rich and powerful, but graphically intensive, heavily interactive things -- think games, mainly -- aren't likely to happen. That's not to say Palm won't eventually offer a binary SDK, but the tools they appear to be offering up front won't get the job done, and we've confirmed in talking to Palm that Pre gaming was never a priority for the company during the development cycle. In a nutshell: Tetris, yes; Tetrisphere, not so much."
So yes, the SDK is a little better than the original iPhone "SDK" but isn't going to provide for any kind of app that can't run as an Ajax webapp.
Well yes they seem to be offering a bit more than what iphone 1.0 did. But I suspect just like Apple they will offer more and more access to the hardware. I think probably more than Apple because they said they want to be similar to android in how they approve apps.
Again, when Apple introduces their version of what Palm introduced it will seem as though Apple is playing catchup.
Their version is Safari, which came before Palm's implementation. Palm have basically taken Safari and extended the Javascript capabilities.
If Apple extend Javascript with custom code, it will extend to the desktop too. Some of the developments Palm made may go back into webkit.
That's another thing that's funny about you suggesting Apple are behind. Palm's web rendering is based on webkit. Do you know who developed webkit? That's right Apple.
So here we have a WebOS based on a rendering engine from Apple on a device that looks exactly like the iphone from Apple displaying an interface that resembles Safari on its own and all they've done is add javascript extensions to address additional Linux functions. And this is innovative?
If Apple adds those same extensions to be able to address the other parts of the iphone (thereby making the device less secure btw - I really don't want people to be able to access my contacts from the internet) then it's not 'catching up' by any great distance.
The 'catching up' is like if you take a bus journey for 100 miles, someone gets on at the next stop and sits in front of you. The catching up you have to do to get ahead of that person is pretty minimal. Plus this assumes the Pre is ahead of the iphone, which it really isn't.
The smart choice Apple made is that webapps work cross-platform and native apps use the full extent of the device and therefore much faster. The apps on the Pre do neither.
Apple's response is going to be exactly what they have had in the pipeline for some time. There is nothing whatsoever in the Pre announcement to "embarrass" Apple or that obliges them to "rethink" anything about their mobile OS.
The idea that "multitasking" and "synergy" are huge PR wins for an unreleased phone and that that somehow puts Apple in the position of playing catchup and that this all amounts to Apple losing face unless they redouble their efforts is just silly.
Apple is currently claiming almost half of the US mobile browser share, and they're sitting on a platform with some seriously heavy momentum and an exploding software and peripheral ecosystem. Sales of the Touch alone apparently absolutely skyrocketed this Christmas. Palm has announced a phone that they plan to ship in six months, at the earliest. Apple is building out a platform and picking up steam; they'll likely have a new model on the market by the time the Pre ships.
I'm sure Apple's UI people will take a look at what Pre has to offer, and consider implementing anything that looks genuinely useful (as long as it can be done in a way that fits into the iPhone's existing UI framework). That's pretty much how the computer industry operates, with folks borrowing freely from one another. God know that without the iPhone, there's no Pre at all.
But beyond that, expect Apple to release upgraded hardware in June, with a faster processor, better graphics, more system ram and more user memory. Almost certainly an at least somewhat improved camera, although probably not good enough to satisfy the endlessly dissatisfied.
I would expect push notifications to come within that time frame as well, and at least some chronic gripes (cut and paste, system wide search) addressed. As has been noted by others, there's some pretty basic stuff that Apple could do to "sell" the idea of apps running in the background without the battery cost of literally doing that.
Really, some of this stuff is like arguing that because someone is offering a nice new OS specific IM client everybody is going to buy a new laptop and the people with the OS without the nice new IM client will hide their faces in shame. Not very plausible.
Apple's response is going to be exactly what they have had in the pipeline for some time. There is nothing whatsoever in the Pre announcement to "embarrass" Apple or that obliges them to "rethink" anything about their mobile OS.
I agree, but when you look at this site, you get the feeling Apple is simply not listening "AT ALL". Apple needs to listen, this is what the people need right now. They should have added MMS a year ago for example. No landscape in Mail, that type of stuff is simply ridiculous. Like it or not, Palm may have woke Apple up a little. They can make leaps sure, but some times it's the little things that people need "right now" that matter.
I hope to see an event before June where Apple adds "all" the features we've been clamoring for a long time, and more. This bug fix hear, nonsense feature there just won't do. Case in point, Google Street view. It was not important enough, the should add things people actually will use, care about, and have been wanting for since the first iPhone started shipping. I hope to God a big event is happening soon.
We were all gaga 2 years ago when Steve debuted the iphone interface. Which is basically a little computer that does apps one at a time.
This little baby from Palm doesn't care about your apps per se but cares MUCH more about the INFORMATION that the USER cares about on those apps. The pre runs multiple apps and shares information between all of them AND information on the net all at the same time seemlessly.
the iPhone started shipping how long ago?
have you used the Pre yourself?
the report of the demo I read was that the woman demoing it hit buttons and nothing happened, it STILL needs a lot of work.
if Apple had minor (but blown out of proportion) problems with MobileMe syncing, what makes you think Palm will be perfection?
----
Competition is GOOD for Apple, Steve will tell you this. Remember that its M$ that don't like competition.
I thought Palm were all washed up to be honest, so, while I have never owned any palm products, and I don't see that ever changing, I'm really glad they have the potential to hang in there. They REALLY have an up hill struggle though, against RIM and Apple and against the global economy, launching new product with a new OS will be difficult (never mind its going to be on one of the smaller networks!), my main concern would be "will they still be around a year from now?"
RIM and Apple can answer yes, but have Palm REALLY got the backing to last?
Meh, this is his second sky is falling thread about OSX and how Apple is behind somehow.
Yah...webkit on top of linux. Yah, Apple is shaking in its boots.
This is the 2005ish Linux Treo (pushed to 2006, then 2007, then 2008 and is now the pre) with Webkit as the UI and Webkit JS Bridge as the SDK.
They've been working on a Linux phone for 5 freaking years and they're still "1st half of 2009" for a launch date?
I've always been a fan of Palm (there's a Tungsten charging next to my iPhone...my god that was a sucky phone but I use/used it as a PDA) but geez that's a long time.
I saw a nice use of notifications (unobtrusive is a great word for it)
I saw a decent browser but nothing really new here
I saw a virtual desktop feature renamed cards
I saw a Synergy feature which is going to be great for some and superfluous to others
I saw no strategy about 3rd party apps or a store
Good phone. I'd say an 8GB model should be $229 tops mid 2009. It's not an iPhone killer
though. It doesn't have the ecosystem and the inertia of the app store is a bit too much.
Apples response won't be to Palm it'll simply be the next large evolution of the iPhone and its current and potetial users. I expect the UI will improve, the graphics will certainly improve, the battery will improve.
Meh, this is his second sky is falling thread about OSX and how Apple is behind somehow.
Yah...webkit on top of linux. Yah, Apple is shaking in its boots.
This is the 2005ish Linux Treo (pushed to 2006, then 2007, then 2008 and is now the pre) with Webkit as the UI and Webkit JS Bridge as the SDK.
They've been working on a Linux phone for 5 freaking years and they're still "1st half of 2009" for a launch date?
I've always been a fan of Palm (there's a Tungsten charging next to my iPhone...my god that was a sucky phone but I use/used it as a PDA) but geez that's a long time.
Yeah, I don't know if it's picking up attention deficit switchers who lose their shit every time the next shiny wanders by, or what, but it seems like there's a lot more "OMG Apple better do what those guys are doing or else" type posts, as of late. Actually, a lot of them seem like "I've been looking at the same OS for more than 15 minutes, I'm bored now, somebody show me some explosions!"
I remember when MS was touting that UPMC thing a few years ago, with a little lifestyle video that showed hip young people laughing their asses off as they did, I dunno, ubiquitous connectivity things, or something.
There were a rash hysterical posts about how Apple had to counter MS, now, or they would squander the gains they had made and get left looking like yesterday's news.
Before that there were a bunch of people pretty sure that if Apple didn't get a tablet (this was a good three years ago) on the market immediately they would be utterly fucked.
Apple is actually pretty good at not wasting resources chasing after somebody else's idea of what people should be buying.
Well if what I've been reading is true, its too late for Apple to prepare a proper response. Whatever they have in store for us its already done and ready to show the public later this month.
I hope Apple planned far enough ahead so that whatever they reveal will keep them another 2 years ahead of the competition.
It would seem later this month Apple will reveal something "huge" to the masses. Look for the Andy Ihnatko thread for more details.
Some good perspective. Palm's definitely back in play but with a ship date that's months out and really precious few Killer Features (IMO) I think they're going to have to work their way up to iPhone'like infrastructure.
Well if what I've been reading is true, its too late for Apple to prepare a proper response. Whatever they have in store for us its already done and ready to show the public later this month.
I hope Apple planned far enough ahead so that whatever they reveal will keep them another 2 years ahead of the competition.
It would seem later this month Apple will reveal something "huge" to the masses. Look for the Andy Ihnatko thread for more details.
self aggrandisement much?
Apples response won't be to another company, it will be to their own products, Apple competes with ITSELF.
--
OMFGZZ theres this LIKE wow NEW thing, LIKE iZ think its called blue sky thinking!
I used to rock a Palm 3 Color back in the day. I loved the thing. If Palm could make a smart phone that gives Apple's iPhone some competition, that's a good thing. Competition means Apple improves the iPhone further.
The G1/Android didn't even register on the radar, despite the media hoopla.
The Blackberry Storm wasn't even liked by Blackberry users.
Comments
Now when Apple introduces their version it will seem as if they are playing catch up.
That must be very embarassing.
What are you talking about? Did you even see the demo? It looks as though they ripped Jobs' entire MW 2007 presentation and the WWDC launch. Talking about how developers can program apps easily by just using Javascript, HTML, CSS (Web 2.0).
It's not embarrassment, it's probably the same feeling when they realized Microsoft were making an OS and pretty much cloning the entire interface. They should feel cheated that Palm aren't giving so much as a nod to Apple for pretty much handing them a future.
Given that all those apps demoed were all webapps, how is everything you saw any different from opening the same style webapps in Safari on the iphone and flipping between them left to right and hitting the cross instead of swishing a card away?
Ok, you can't dial or SMS from a webapp but Safari remembers all your webapp states when you move to the dialler screen.
Look at the phone and anybody can see that they, like pretty much every smartphone manufacturer have ripped off the iphone design in software and hardware. Then they add a couple of minor features and suddenly it's Apple who should be embarrassed?
You could almost see the embarrassment on the faces of the Palm presenters when the crowd went silent whenever they demoed a feature everyone knew came out 2 years ago and yet still anticipated applause for.
What are you talking about? Did you even see the demo? It looks as though they ripped Jobs' entire MW 2007 presentation and the WWDC launch. Talking about how developers can program apps easily by just using Javascript, HTML, CSS (Web 2.0).
It's not embarrassment, it's probably the same feeling when they realized Microsoft were making an OS and pretty much cloning the entire interface. They should feel cheated that Palm aren't giving so much as a nod to Apple for pretty much handing them a future.
Given that all those apps demoed were all webapps, how is everything you saw any different from opening the same style webapps in Safari on the iphone and flipping between them left to right and hitting the cross instead of swishing a card away?
Ok, you can't dial or SMS from a webapp but Safari remembers all your webapp states when you move to the dialler screen.
Look at the phone and anybody can see that they, like pretty much every smartphone manufacturer have ripped off the iphone design in software and hardware. Then they add a couple of minor features and suddenly it's Apple who should be embarrassed?
You could almost see the embarrassment on the faces of the Palm presenters when the crowd went silent whenever they demoed a feature everyone knew came out 2 years ago and yet still anticipated applause for.
Yes yes obviously Palm knows they have to at the very least be up to the current standard which is what the iphone introduced. But as soon as that was over with in their keynote they went on to introduce the card interface for use with multitasking and the synergy system. That was the big draw.
The embarassment I'm talking about is what Apple might feel is if all Apple can do six months from now is introduce the iphone 3.0 with features that match the Palm Pre. The press would immediately gang up on Apple and say that they are playing catch up.
I think Apple was expecting Palm do to an ACTUAL ripoff of the iphone system....clearly this is not.
I betcha Apple was planning on countering Palm's supposed ripoff by coming out with a system that had multitasking and such.
But as it turns out Palm actually came out with totally new features and concepts including stuff that can be considered almost like a built-in mobileme. A feature by the way that the consumers don't have to pay $89.00 a year for. Wait, how much is mobileme again?
Face it.
Palm has a nice HTML5, CSS and Javascript based UI/Framework on some unknown kernel. Mojo is the same kind of "SDK" that folks said wasn't good enough for the iPhone as near as I can tell.
To quote Engaget
"sounds kind of like it's a jacked up browser with memory management, like Google Chrome"
Apple's answer is called "Safari".
What should be interesting is how secure this ends up being. I hope their sandboxing is pretty solid.
I don't know whats going to happen in the next six months. But if you guys think that Palm isn't going to make this happen your kidding yourselves. They have the same drive to succeed like Apple did Over 10 years ago when Jobs came back to save the company.
Really? We'll see how well Palm executes.
Clearly Apple has to upgrade their mobile OSX to handle some things just as well as the Pre. And I'm not talking about cut and paste.
Palm's WebOS can do multitasking and the iphone can't and or won't.
How should Apple respond to this or should they?
OSX can multitask and you see it on the iPhone every day. What they choose not to do is allow 3rd party apps work in the background. If the iPhone didn't multitask you couldn't run any app and have anything happen in the background. No phone calls, no push email, no visual voicemail, no nothing.
It's a design decision for the iPhone SDK. One they can instantly relax should they desire.
The "deck" is a nice metaphor for Palm webOS but if you're running that many background apps on a phone...meh. It's a good way to run out of resources (memory, cpu and battery) in a hurry. It should be interesting to see how webOS managed device contention. I suppose via eventing.
There are a small class of apps that should run in the background. IM is one.
WebOS has this HOT new feature called synergy that searches for and automatically merges all your data from multiple applications that are connected to the web as well as corporate servers.
The iphone can only dream about doing that.
So how should Apple respond to those features?
I sync many things via MobileMe. Calendar, contacts, notes, etc. If I want more I could do Plaxo again.
Any ideas? Those ideas could be business strategies or straight up technological ideas (software and hardware).
I'm just trying to get a handle on what Apple might do.
Not overreact is one.
They must rethink the OS indeed. I betcha the Palm Pre's debut really really took the Apple iphone team off guard and must have hurt at least some of them personally.
Dream on.
Because I realize now that the iphone team's intention must have been to debut a product with multitasking.
They did. It was a design choice not to allow user apps to run in the background.
I think Apple fully expected to be the first company to debut a multitouch modern smartphone with those features.
Now when Apple introduces their version it will seem as if they are playing catch up.
That must be very embarassing.
You know, you keep writing about OSX and operating systems. It might behoove you to learn a little more about them.
Quote:
I think Apple fully expected to be the first company to debut a multitouch modern smartphone with those features.
Now when Apple introduces their version it will seem as if they are playing catch up.
That must be very embarassing.
You know, you keep writing about OSX and operating systems. It might behoove you to learn a little more about them.
Umm...no.....I'm not writing directly about OSX and operating systems now am I. I'm writing about features about OSes commonly known to the general public.
But in this particular instance in the above quote I'm not talking about features at all. I'm talking about what the public will perceive when Apple introduces a new product with comparable features to WebOS.
It would seem that the hardware on the Palm Pre is such that its going to support the multitasking WebOS without too much problems (it better).
Again, when Apple introduces their version of what Palm introduced it will seem as though Apple is playing catchup. And whatever the reality is considered to be in Apple's minds, its that perception in the marketplace is what might end up being embarrassing for Apple.
Now if your about to teach me about the intricacies of OSX they hey please, by all means do. I would like to learn. But that has nothing to do with what I said in that post.
"First off, as "webOS" implies, apps written for the platform are web-based -- HTML, JavaScript, that sort of stuff -- but unlike Apple's original vision for the iPhone, Palm's going to include libraries that allow devs to tap in to the Pre's hardware capabilities and interact closely with services exposed by the operating system. For users, that means apps are hopefully going to be rich and powerful, but graphically intensive, heavily interactive things -- think games, mainly -- aren't likely to happen. That's not to say Palm won't eventually offer a binary SDK, but the tools they appear to be offering up front won't get the job done, and we've confirmed in talking to Palm that Pre gaming was never a priority for the company during the development cycle. In a nutshell: Tetris, yes; Tetrisphere, not so much."
So yes, the SDK is a little better than the original iPhone "SDK" but isn't going to provide for any kind of app that can't run as an Ajax webapp.
Another Engaget clip:
"First off, as "webOS" implies, apps written for the platform are web-based -- HTML, JavaScript, that sort of stuff -- but unlike Apple's original vision for the iPhone, Palm's going to include libraries that allow devs to tap in to the Pre's hardware capabilities and interact closely with services exposed by the operating system. For users, that means apps are hopefully going to be rich and powerful, but graphically intensive, heavily interactive things -- think games, mainly -- aren't likely to happen. That's not to say Palm won't eventually offer a binary SDK, but the tools they appear to be offering up front won't get the job done, and we've confirmed in talking to Palm that Pre gaming was never a priority for the company during the development cycle. In a nutshell: Tetris, yes; Tetrisphere, not so much."
So yes, the SDK is a little better than the original iPhone "SDK" but isn't going to provide for any kind of app that can't run as an Ajax webapp.
Well yes they seem to be offering a bit more than what iphone 1.0 did. But I suspect just like Apple they will offer more and more access to the hardware. I think probably more than Apple because they said they want to be similar to android in how they approve apps.
Again, when Apple introduces their version of what Palm introduced it will seem as though Apple is playing catchup.
Their version is Safari, which came before Palm's implementation. Palm have basically taken Safari and extended the Javascript capabilities.
If Apple extend Javascript with custom code, it will extend to the desktop too. Some of the developments Palm made may go back into webkit.
That's another thing that's funny about you suggesting Apple are behind. Palm's web rendering is based on webkit. Do you know who developed webkit? That's right Apple.
So here we have a WebOS based on a rendering engine from Apple on a device that looks exactly like the iphone from Apple displaying an interface that resembles Safari on its own and all they've done is add javascript extensions to address additional Linux functions. And this is innovative?
If Apple adds those same extensions to be able to address the other parts of the iphone (thereby making the device less secure btw - I really don't want people to be able to access my contacts from the internet) then it's not 'catching up' by any great distance.
The 'catching up' is like if you take a bus journey for 100 miles, someone gets on at the next stop and sits in front of you. The catching up you have to do to get ahead of that person is pretty minimal. Plus this assumes the Pre is ahead of the iphone, which it really isn't.
The smart choice Apple made is that webapps work cross-platform and native apps use the full extent of the device and therefore much faster. The apps on the Pre do neither.
The idea that "multitasking" and "synergy" are huge PR wins for an unreleased phone and that that somehow puts Apple in the position of playing catchup and that this all amounts to Apple losing face unless they redouble their efforts is just silly.
Apple is currently claiming almost half of the US mobile browser share, and they're sitting on a platform with some seriously heavy momentum and an exploding software and peripheral ecosystem. Sales of the Touch alone apparently absolutely skyrocketed this Christmas. Palm has announced a phone that they plan to ship in six months, at the earliest. Apple is building out a platform and picking up steam; they'll likely have a new model on the market by the time the Pre ships.
I'm sure Apple's UI people will take a look at what Pre has to offer, and consider implementing anything that looks genuinely useful (as long as it can be done in a way that fits into the iPhone's existing UI framework). That's pretty much how the computer industry operates, with folks borrowing freely from one another. God know that without the iPhone, there's no Pre at all.
But beyond that, expect Apple to release upgraded hardware in June, with a faster processor, better graphics, more system ram and more user memory. Almost certainly an at least somewhat improved camera, although probably not good enough to satisfy the endlessly dissatisfied.
I would expect push notifications to come within that time frame as well, and at least some chronic gripes (cut and paste, system wide search) addressed. As has been noted by others, there's some pretty basic stuff that Apple could do to "sell" the idea of apps running in the background without the battery cost of literally doing that.
Really, some of this stuff is like arguing that because someone is offering a nice new OS specific IM client everybody is going to buy a new laptop and the people with the OS without the nice new IM client will hide their faces in shame. Not very plausible.
Apple's response is going to be exactly what they have had in the pipeline for some time. There is nothing whatsoever in the Pre announcement to "embarrass" Apple or that obliges them to "rethink" anything about their mobile OS.
I agree, but when you look at this site, you get the feeling Apple is simply not listening "AT ALL". Apple needs to listen, this is what the people need right now. They should have added MMS a year ago for example. No landscape in Mail, that type of stuff is simply ridiculous. Like it or not, Palm may have woke Apple up a little. They can make leaps sure, but some times it's the little things that people need "right now" that matter.
I hope to see an event before June where Apple adds "all" the features we've been clamoring for a long time, and more. This bug fix hear, nonsense feature there just won't do. Case in point, Google Street view. It was not important enough, the should add things people actually will use, care about, and have been wanting for since the first iPhone started shipping. I hope to God a big event is happening soon.
that needs to be put in the iphone, lasts longer and charges more, more expensive though
We were all gaga 2 years ago when Steve debuted the iphone interface. Which is basically a little computer that does apps one at a time.
This little baby from Palm doesn't care about your apps per se but cares MUCH more about the INFORMATION that the USER cares about on those apps. The pre runs multiple apps and shares information between all of them AND information on the net all at the same time seemlessly.
the iPhone started shipping how long ago?
have you used the Pre yourself?
the report of the demo I read was that the woman demoing it hit buttons and nothing happened, it STILL needs a lot of work.
if Apple had minor (but blown out of proportion) problems with MobileMe syncing, what makes you think Palm will be perfection?
----
Competition is GOOD for Apple, Steve will tell you this. Remember that its M$ that don't like competition.
I thought Palm were all washed up to be honest, so, while I have never owned any palm products, and I don't see that ever changing, I'm really glad they have the potential to hang in there. They REALLY have an up hill struggle though, against RIM and Apple and against the global economy, launching new product with a new OS will be difficult (never mind its going to be on one of the smaller networks!), my main concern would be "will they still be around a year from now?"
RIM and Apple can answer yes, but have Palm REALLY got the backing to last?
I hope so. but if they go under, they go under.
Yah...webkit on top of linux. Yah, Apple is shaking in its boots.
This is the 2005ish Linux Treo (pushed to 2006, then 2007, then 2008 and is now the pre) with Webkit as the UI and Webkit JS Bridge as the SDK.
They've been working on a Linux phone for 5 freaking years and they're still "1st half of 2009" for a launch date?
I've always been a fan of Palm (there's a Tungsten charging next to my iPhone...my god that was a sucky phone but I use/used it as a PDA) but geez that's a long time.
I saw a nice use of notifications (unobtrusive is a great word for it)
I saw a decent browser but nothing really new here
I saw a virtual desktop feature renamed cards
I saw a Synergy feature which is going to be great for some and superfluous to others
I saw no strategy about 3rd party apps or a store
Good phone. I'd say an 8GB model should be $229 tops mid 2009. It's not an iPhone killer
though. It doesn't have the ecosystem and the inertia of the app store is a bit too much.
Apples response won't be to Palm it'll simply be the next large evolution of the iPhone and its current and potetial users. I expect the UI will improve, the graphics will certainly improve, the battery will improve.
Meh, this is his second sky is falling thread about OSX and how Apple is behind somehow.
Yah...webkit on top of linux. Yah, Apple is shaking in its boots.
This is the 2005ish Linux Treo (pushed to 2006, then 2007, then 2008 and is now the pre) with Webkit as the UI and Webkit JS Bridge as the SDK.
They've been working on a Linux phone for 5 freaking years and they're still "1st half of 2009" for a launch date?
I've always been a fan of Palm (there's a Tungsten charging next to my iPhone...my god that was a sucky phone but I use/used it as a PDA) but geez that's a long time.
Yeah, I don't know if it's picking up attention deficit switchers who lose their shit every time the next shiny wanders by, or what, but it seems like there's a lot more "OMG Apple better do what those guys are doing or else" type posts, as of late. Actually, a lot of them seem like "I've been looking at the same OS for more than 15 minutes, I'm bored now, somebody show me some explosions!"
I remember when MS was touting that UPMC thing a few years ago, with a little lifestyle video that showed hip young people laughing their asses off as they did, I dunno, ubiquitous connectivity things, or something.
There were a rash hysterical posts about how Apple had to counter MS, now, or they would squander the gains they had made and get left looking like yesterday's news.
Before that there were a bunch of people pretty sure that if Apple didn't get a tablet (this was a good three years ago) on the market immediately they would be utterly fucked.
Apple is actually pretty good at not wasting resources chasing after somebody else's idea of what people should be buying.
I hope Apple planned far enough ahead so that whatever they reveal will keep them another 2 years ahead of the competition.
It would seem later this month Apple will reveal something "huge" to the masses. Look for the Andy Ihnatko thread for more details.
Some good perspective. Palm's definitely back in play but with a ship date that's months out and really precious few Killer Features (IMO) I think they're going to have to work their way up to iPhone'like infrastructure.
Well if what I've been reading is true, its too late for Apple to prepare a proper response. Whatever they have in store for us its already done and ready to show the public later this month.
I hope Apple planned far enough ahead so that whatever they reveal will keep them another 2 years ahead of the competition.
It would seem later this month Apple will reveal something "huge" to the masses. Look for the Andy Ihnatko thread for more details.
self aggrandisement much?
Apples response won't be to another company, it will be to their own products, Apple competes with ITSELF.
--
OMFGZZ theres this LIKE wow NEW thing, LIKE iZ think its called blue sky thinking!
The G1/Android didn't even register on the radar, despite the media hoopla.
The Blackberry Storm wasn't even liked by Blackberry users.
I suspect the Pre will join their ranks.
self aggrandisement much?
Apples response won't be to another company, it will be to their own products, Apple competes with ITSELF.
--
OMFGZZ theres this LIKE wow NEW thing, LIKE iZ think its called blue sky thinking!
I'm having a hard time translating that last sentance into english. What does it say?
I'm having a hard time translating that last sentance into english. What does it say?
It says you're seriously overreacting and acting like chicken little.