What should be Apple's response to Palm's WebOS?

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  • Reply 41 of 67
    olternautolternaut Posts: 1,376member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    It says you're seriously overreacting and acting like chicken little.



    Whatever. In two weeks we will find out if the sky is falling or not.
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  • Reply 42 of 67
    nofeernofeer Posts: 2,427member
    as i have said, what do we have that some many went gaga over at CES, must have been really boring

    this article says it all, we should all read it twice.



    http://macdailynews.com/index.php/we...omments/19692/
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  • Reply 43 of 67
    piotpiot Posts: 1,346member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    "I've been looking at the same OS for more than 15 minutes, I'm bored now, somebody show me some explosions!"



    Bastard! You just made me spit coffee through my nose.
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  • Reply 44 of 67
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vandil View Post


    The G1/Android didn't even register on the radar, despite the media hoopla.

    The Blackberry Storm wasn't even liked by Blackberry users.

    I suspect the Pre will join their ranks.



    Frankly, this pisses me off.



    Apple does not have a monopoly on good designers. God knows, they do not have a monopoly on good engineers or programmers.



    The iPhone lights a fire under the industry and... where are the benefits of all this competition again? The Blackberry holds on because it has Microsoft compatibility features that the iPhone doesn't. That's not a strategy.



    What is it going to take for gadget designers to take their jobs seriously?



    I'm hoping that when the Palm Pre comes out it is that good, and it is that much of a challenge to the iPhone, simply so that I can get some sense that more than one hardware company has a clue and there actually will be some mutual pressure to innovate.



    Rant over.
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  • Reply 45 of 67
    irelandireland Posts: 17,801member
    I am looking closely at some new videos on the Pre. Up close demos. The rubber banding on the Pre isn't quite as good as on the iPhone. It doesn't have as realistic physics. It seems to be more of an animation, as opposed to looking like a genuine physical 'bounce'.
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  • Reply 46 of 67
    thttht Posts: 5,901member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post


    Actually it does search your applications for your data. You need to watch the entire Palm keynote. Or have you already?



    I've seen the keynote, and Synergy is about integrating your contact, calender, and messaging from disparate systems into one unified place or UI. It doesn't search your applications for data, unless you think Google, Yahoo, and Exchange are applications. What it does is collect the contact calender, contact and messaging info from those places and puts them onto the device, and present it all as one.



    This is exactly what their press release says. Not one word about searching applications for you data. Unless of course, you have a rather vague understanding of what applications are and what the cloud is.



    It's going to have its limitations. For instance, in my worklife, the global email list on the exchange server has tens of thousands of contacts, I don't think it's going to put that much info onto the device, not to mention the legalities of doing such a thing.



    The Pre does do searching, your typical searching from the keyboard, but that isn't Synergy. That's just searching.
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  • Reply 47 of 67
    thttht Posts: 5,901member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    I am looking closely at some new videos on the Pre. Up close demos. The rubber banding on the Pre isn't quite as good as on the iPhone. It doesn't have as realistic physics. It seems to be more of an animation, as opposed to looking like a genuine physical 'bounce'.



    Still a little bit of lag in the scrolling too. They have some work to do still. Also, this is on a OMAP 3430, which probably has 2x the horsepower of the iPhone's application processor. They've got lots and lots of work to do before they ship. Still, I like what they've done.
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  • Reply 48 of 67
    olternautolternaut Posts: 1,376member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amorph View Post


    Frankly, this pisses me off.



    Apple does not have a monopoly on good designers. God knows, they do not have a monopoly on good engineers or programmers.



    The iPhone lights a fire under the industry and... where are the benefits of all this competition again? The Blackberry holds on because it has Microsoft compatibility features that the iPhone doesn't. That's not a strategy.



    What is it going to take for gadget designers to take their jobs seriously?



    I'm hoping that when the Palm Pre comes out it is that good, and it is that much of a challenge to the iPhone, simply so that I can get some sense that more than one hardware company has a clue and there actually will be some mutual pressure to innovate.



    Rant over.



    Here here!!
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  • Reply 49 of 67
    thttht Posts: 5,901member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post


    Having said that I can also see the loss of Rubinstein's influence. Not everyone agrees with the Pre's design but technically this little thing has a lot going for it. Details like extending the touch sensitive area into the otherwise dead bottom area, or the induction charger, exchangeable battery, high-density screen, or the LED flash. And did anyone notice that the audio jack is at the top, center? Like with first batch of iPods? I always felt it's classier at the top center.



    On a side note:

    I wonder how upset Steve is with Jon Rubinstein. Hope they're still on talking terms. They both go back to the days of NeXT and Steve brought Jon along to Apple.



    I'm wondering too. Rubenstein was there during the iPhone incubation period from 2004 to 2005 when Apple was exploring the next big thing and figuring out how to make a good tablet PC. Most of the things you mention were all there.



    The gesture area, induction charger, cards interface, rubber banding, pinching, scrolling, single butten, etc, were all explored during this time frame at Apple when they were creating the iPhone. And Palm implementing a straight copy of the various UI conventions and improved upon some others. I'd be curious if Apple chooses to defend its patents as it said it would.



    I also like symmetry. I think camera should be centered too. The fact that the Pre doesn't have the screen centered bothers me too. It should be centered. Also the corners in both the UI and the device seem too round to me.



    Quote:

    I also like the idea behind Synergy, but I wonder whether it isn't just a clever sync module rather than a 'revolutionary' OS advancement. I'm leaning towards the former.

    The danger with this is that any change on Gmail, Facebook etc. will suddenly break Synergy until they come up with an updated sync module. The more places Synergy syncs with the more trouble I can see with sync modules breaking and/or being updated too quickly to catch up and in the process ruining data with buggy sync modules.



    The concept certainly seems to be a step into the right direction, letting the user choose which services he/she wants, while the data is collated into an interface/device of choice, not having to learn and use a new interface for every new service.



    I hope they are successful. Syncing is difficult business. All it takes is for one mis-sync, and often times, you have start over from the beginning.
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  • Reply 50 of 67
    thttht Posts: 5,901member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    The multi-tasking of the new Palm OS reminds me a lot of Spaces. I don't really care who steals what do honestly, Apple now need to step up their game.



    No not spaces. The cards interface is a direct copy of iPhone Safari and its multiple webpage UI. When changing to a different webpage or web page window, one presses the multiple page button, iPhone Safari scales all of the open web page windows down and one changes to a different web window by swiping. One can close a window by tapping the close symbol.



    The difference between this and the Pre? The Pre uses its home button to activate the switch window mode, and a swipe up to close an app. Since all Pre apps are supposedly web apps, how is this different from iPhone Safari? There are differences as I'm sure on the Pre a new web app spawns a new process, not a new thread (maybe), blah blah blah, but it's the exact same UI convention, no?
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  • Reply 51 of 67
    irelandireland Posts: 17,801member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by THT View Post


    No not spaces. The cards interface is a direct copy of iPhone Safari and its multiple webpage UI.



    It's not. Safari pages are fixed, these Pre pages are drag-able, just like when you zoom out in Spaces.
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  • Reply 52 of 67
    irelandireland Posts: 17,801member
    Actually the most apparent thing I've seen, if you compare iPhone to Pre. The zoom on iPhone is a lot more obvious, it's innate in the technology used to build the apps, and iPhone's OS. Using core animation and all these cool things iPhone can make zoom actually fell like "zoom". On the Pre it just places you close to the text when you zoom in with a double tap, there's no zoom-transition to tell the user what's happening.
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  • Reply 53 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post


    No one knows for sure it seems. But if I was Apple I would end that exclusivity soon. Because frankly its keeping Apple from innovating faster. Hopefully a successful Palm Pre selling quarter will help with that decision.



    I'm willing to bet that Apple has been developing intensely for their post-at&t future. Once they're free of the ole ball and chain, expect things to really explode.
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  • Reply 54 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    In summary battery power is more important than anything here. Your phone doesn't do a thing if it's run out of juice. The key to delivering the features we want/need is for Apple to leverage outstanding battery power which will enable these other features.



    Off on a tangent here... We shouldn't overlook the expertise they have honed in power management and battery technology. It's entirely possible that Apple could branch into more advanced green power tech beyond computers and cell phones.
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  • Reply 55 of 67
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amorph View Post


    Frankly, this pisses me off.



    Apple does not have a monopoly on good designers. God knows, they do not have a monopoly on good engineers or programmers.



    True. But unlike many companies it seems their designers and programmers aren't unduly hampered by management...and perhaps even encouraged to work together.



    Oddly MS has a bunch of talented designers and UI researchers. Some of this translates into the end product but a lot doesn't. Probably because it is a programmer dominated culture.



    A lot of companies are that way.



    Quote:

    The iPhone lights a fire under the industry and... where are the benefits of all this competition again? The Blackberry holds on because it has Microsoft compatibility features that the iPhone doesn't. That's not a strategy.



    It sure as hell is.



    Quote:

    What is it going to take for gadget designers to take their jobs seriously?



    Wrong question. What is it going to take for management to take design seriously. A corporate culture driven by something other than design excellence will end up excelling in other areas.



    Quote:

    I'm hoping that when the Palm Pre comes out it is that good, and it is that much of a challenge to the iPhone, simply so that I can get some sense that more than one hardware company has a clue and there actually will be some mutual pressure to innovate.



    Rant over.



    My friend knows a lot of Creative folks. Arguably a lot of their stuff is superior to Apple's line of iPods but it's the total user experience with iPod that's arguably better (arguably depending on your opinion of iTunes). I like the Zen Stone from a design perspective.
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  • Reply 56 of 67
    thttht Posts: 5,901member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    It's not. Safari pages are fixed, these Pre pages are drag-able, just like when you zoom out in Spaces.



    I don't see it. The UI convention seen on the Pre is exactly the Safari multiple web page interface with a few modifications. The reordering is the plan Jane drag-n-drop reordering seen in any number of interfaces, including those seen in the iPhone. The wow factor presented in the Pre is being able to switch between running applications, though one can make the contention that there is much wow there. If the Pre only has webapps, there's not much difference with Safari iPhone UI and webapps in Safari.
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  • Reply 57 of 67
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,979member
    I think its gonna take something pretty significant to get people to switch over from an iPhone. We went through this it seemed like every week with the iPod. Apple had already had that market nailed and was too far ahead for anyone to overtake the iPod.



    The iPhone is starting to get there. I'm not saying its the best selling phone ever, obviously its not. It is however one of the best selling smartphones. It has totally given the smartphone market a new life. Nobody has what Apple has, and thats the music store and apps store tied to the phone. Google has something similar, but I don't see it getting as successful as the iPhone. The google doesn't have a successful music store, or a player everyone already knows (iPod).



    Unless companies can start something pretty damn spectacular, I think the iPhone is going to take off just like the iPod did and nobody is going to catch up to it.



    The business end may be a different story, but I can't see how using things like Exchange support and mobileme push services isn't good enough for these areas.



    What would be great is if Apple crated a CDMA iPhone. IMO, it would significantly increase the sales of the iPhone, probably both with regular consumers and businesses. Choosing AT&T and making it an exclusive partner was Apple's biggest mistake with the iPhone and still is today. Many people are leery of getting an iPhone because of the cellular service provider and not everyone wants to screw around modifying the iPhone so it can be used on a T-Mobile network. Regular consumers want an out of the box experience with no crap in between.



    Don't get me wrong...competition is great. It always makes companies put out better products than they already have, and its an endless cycle as long as the competition keeps going. Its a great thing and only helps consumers with with the product and price.
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  • Reply 58 of 67
    The problem with creating a CDMA iPhone is that compared to the GSM/3G Market, there aren't very many CDMA customers at all. CDMA is a dying technology, and investing millions to crest a CDMA iPhone just doesn't make sense because of the limited number of customers you'd be targetting.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macxpress View Post


    I think its gonna take something pretty significant to get people to switch over from an iPhone. We went through this it seemed like every week with the iPod. Apple had already had that market nailed and was too far ahead for anyone to overtake the iPod.



    The iPhone is starting to get there. I'm not saying its the best selling phone ever, obviously its not. It is however one of the best selling smartphones. It has totally given the smartphone market a new life. Nobody has what Apple has, and thats the music store and apps store tied to the phone. Google has something similar, but I don't see it getting as successful as the iPhone. The google doesn't have a successful music store, or a player everyone already knows (iPod).



    Unless companies can start something pretty damn spectacular, I think the iPhone is going to take off just like the iPod did and nobody is going to catch up to it.



    The business end may be a different story, but I can't see how using things like Exchange support and mobileme push services isn't good enough for these areas.



    What would be great is if Apple crated a CDMA iPhone. IMO, it would significantly increase the sales of the iPhone, probably both with regular consumers and businesses. Choosing AT&T and making it an exclusive partner was Apple's biggest mistake with the iPhone and still is today. Many people are leery of getting an iPhone because of the cellular service provider and not everyone wants to screw around modifying the iPhone so it can be used on a T-Mobile network. Regular consumers want an out of the box experience with no crap in between.



    Don't get me wrong...competition is great. It always makes companies put out better products than they already have, and its an endless cycle as long as the competition keeps going. Its a great thing and only helps consumers with with the product and price.



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  • Reply 59 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post


    Umm...no.....I'm not writing directly about OSX and operating systems now am I. I'm writing about features about OSes commonly known to the general public.

    But in this particular instance in the above quote I'm not talking about features at all. I'm talking about what the public will perceive when Apple introduces a new product with comparable features to WebOS.

    It would seem that the hardware on the Palm Pre is such that its going to support the multitasking WebOS without too much problems (it better).



    Again, when Apple introduces their version of what Palm introduced it will seem as though Apple is playing catchup. And whatever the reality is considered to be in Apple's minds, its that perception in the marketplace is what might end up being embarrassing for Apple.



    Now if your about to teach me about the intricacies of OSX they hey please, by all means do. I would like to learn. But that has nothing to do with what I said in that post.



    Corection, you're writing about 'features' and coming from the pretend foresight that Apple's operating system is incapable of those 'features' on their phones, when they've been capable for years and have designed them to be non-functional, until future hardware allows them to meet and exceed their business requirements moving forward.



    All iPhones moving forward will be as "green" as Apple laptops for recyclable parts, more power efficient and extend more of the mainline OS to the phone.



    Investing $500 Million for panel materials designed with LG is a bold face shot to Wall Street that Apple is not only expecting high quality displays on all current devices, but for future devices.



    Apple's investment in Micron for Flash memory will also continue to pay dividends for upcoming portable device evolutions and new devices currently not available for consumption.



    Apple isn't just moving OS X 10.6 the mainline computer systems. They are moving forward on all fronts forward with that base.



    Palm's working on a phone. They better get something worth a crap out their or they are filing Chapter 11. More to the point, they better hope Sprint rebounds or they are toast.



    Palm, at best, has 6 months worth of capital to keep the doors open.
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  • Reply 60 of 67
    olternautolternaut Posts: 1,376member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    Corection, you're writing about 'features' and coming from the pretend foresight that Apple's operating system is incapable of those 'features' on their phones, when they've been capable for years and have designed them to be non-functional, until future hardware allows them to meet and exceed their business requirements moving forward.



    All iPhones moving forward will be as "green" as Apple laptops for recyclable parts, more power efficient and extend more of the mainline OS to the phone.



    Investing $500 Million for panel materials designed with LG is a bold face shot to Wall Street that Apple is not only expecting high quality displays on all current devices, but for future devices.



    Apple's investment in Micron for Flash memory will also continue to pay dividends for upcoming portable device evolutions and new devices currently not available for consumption.



    Apple isn't just moving OS X 10.6 the mainline computer systems. They are moving forward on all fronts forward with that base.



    Palm's working on a phone. They better get something worth a crap out their or they are filing Chapter 11. More to the point, they better hope Sprint rebounds or they are toast.



    Palm, at best, has 6 months worth of capital to keep the doors open.



    Pretend what! Of course Apple's OSes can do multitasking.....potentially. But Palm has beat them to it. And no one knows when and if Apple will have such 'features' in their products.
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