Multi-touch omitted from Android at Apple's request - report

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  • Reply 21 of 52
    On a semi-related note, I think Intel should leave Android to the cellphones, and get rid of their custom linux distro for "MIDs", and just work with Ubuntu on a netbook linux version.



    The majority of the isssue with consumer linux adoption is the fact there is no one standard platform! If Intel and other heavyweights threw their weight into a standard Ubuntu platform, then hardware makers would finally get around to making linux-compatible drivers for everything.
  • Reply 22 of 52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mechengit View Post


    If Apple did what this news claims, it would be a tragedy. It's like saying that only Apple is allowed to use GUI interface while other operating system can only use text command. This is definitely a drawback for innovation.



    No it's not, thats a terrible analogy. It all really depends on who has what patents, and all the prior art related to multitouch. Perhaps it only applies to a multi-touch display interface on a mobile device, or even just specific gestures which will be ruled as patentable... Basically, no one really knows much until the court process works it out..
  • Reply 23 of 52
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by floccus View Post


    Wonder if Apple would have extended the same courtesy to Palm about the patent heads up if they were as cozy as they are with Google. Apple and Google serve each other best as separate entities to challange Microsoft and others. Sure they have overlapping ideas/products at times, but the partnership is mutually beneficial at the moment. Apple and Palm and have nothing to gain from each other aside from taking market share from Microsoft, and Google probably will get less preferntial developer treatment from Palm.



    And does Palm still have the financial resources to hope they win (or at least don't outright lose) any litigation over multi-touch? Their market cap is roughly 800M right now, they may have to play it safe, license multi-touch gesturing, and hope they can outcompete Windows Mobile based phones.



    Both Apple and Google have become giant, wealthy companies. Palm was never a big company, and never a wealthy one.



    While both Apple and Google work crossways on some things, which is to be expected, they do have things in common, and as large companies, an alliance is useful.



    Palm has little to offer either.



    Of course, Palm does have patents that Apple, and others are violating, which would make it difficult to squeeze them.



    Palm did get another round of financing of $100 million, but these days, that's not much, and will just be enough to keep them on their feet if the Pre takes off. Otherwise, they could be finished by the end of 2009, or the latest, 2010..
  • Reply 24 of 52
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mechengit View Post


    If Apple did what this news claims, it would be a tragedy. It's like saying that only Apple is allowed to use GUI interface while other operating system can only use text command. This is definitely a drawback for innovation.



    No it's not. It's only a drawback for those who have no new ideas.
  • Reply 25 of 52
    You do know that multi-touch isn't new, nor created by Apple.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No it's not. It's only a drawback for those who have no new ideas.



  • Reply 26 of 52
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post


    You do know that multi-touch isn't new, nor created by Apple.



    Some of the concepts were here before. That's generally not enough. Computers were invented long before they became practical, so what?



    Apple is the company that's taken it and did something useful with it other than for a very few multi ten thousand dollar speciality items. Also, Apple owns the company that did most of the major work on Multitouch, so you'd be mostly wrong there.



    If other companies simply copy this work, for the next ten years, there won't be anything really new to come out. But this gives others incentive to figure out ways around it, which is what patents are all about.



    Besides, anyone who thinks that Apple owns Multitouch isn't getting it. Apple owns a subset of Multitouch, and has the ownership of the name, but that's all.



    Other smart people can read patents, and see where Apple hasn't gotten a lock.



    We don't even know, this early, if Multitouch will work out so well. I find a double tap on the iPhone to be better, more often, than a pinch or spreading motion. It goes both ways.
  • Reply 27 of 52
    richlrichl Posts: 2,213member
    There's a lot of ifs and mays in this article.



    On the other hand, I still don't understand Google's smartphone strategy. Why allow the first device to be so ugly? Why release the software before it's complete? First impressions count.



    And why not add multi-touch if you're trying to be a serious competitor? I know that they've spent a lot of money on Android and will continue to give away free support to anyone who wants to make an Android phone. Why sink $100mil a year into this project if you're not going to release a killer product?
  • Reply 28 of 52
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RichL View Post


    There's a lot of ifs and mays in this article.



    On the other hand, I still don't understand Google's smartphone strategy. Why allow the first device to be so ugly? Why release the software before it's complete? First impressions count.



    And why not add multi-touch if you're trying to be a serious competitor? I know that they've spent a lot of money on Android and will continue to give away free support to anyone who wants to make an Android phone. Why sink $100mil a year into this project if you're not going to release a killer product?



    .



    Multitouch wasn't added because of the fear of Apple's patents, and because the companies are close.



    Ugly is in the eye of the beholder as the old expression goes. Besides, thats HTC's problem.



    As far as getting it out with bugs, the Storm came out with many bugs, some of which are still not resolved.



    When you deal with partners with schedules you sometimes have to meet a date. The phone was pushed back as it is. They had to get it out for the holidays. Same thing for the Storm. It was pushed back, but holiday season is very important.



    You may as well ask why MobileMe was released from Apple with so many bugs. Same reason!



    The biggest problem Android will have is that with all the phone makers and carriers out there wanting to make a unique phone, the platform will break up into different fiefs. Each one will have different screens, different power processors, different keyboards, controls, etc.



    How will programmers decide to do their programs? Will a program that's written for a high end phone work when dumbed down for a lower end model? Will it work at all. Will there have to be several versions?



    This is the problem with Google's freeform concept for the platform.



    Google wants to drive users onto its network of programs and sites.
  • Reply 29 of 52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by webhead View Post


    “IP” meant “Intellectual Property” in this case, but I’m sure you were being sarcastic.



    Nope, my comment didn't have any sarcasm in it. If Palm was messing with that IP belonging to Apple, they really would be in serious legal trouble. Now, if you read the post that I was quoting, there's your sarcasm!
  • Reply 30 of 52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Some of the concepts were here before. That's generally not enough. Computers were invented long before they became practical, so what?



    Apple is the company that's taken it and did something useful with it other than for a very few multi ten thousand dollar speciality items. Also, Apple owns the company that did most of the major work on Multitouch, so you'd be mostly wrong there.



    If other companies simply copy this work, for the next ten years, there won't be anything really new to come out. But this gives others incentive to figure out ways around it, which is what patents are all about.



    Besides, anyone who thinks that Apple owns Multitouch isn't getting it. Apple owns a subset of Multitouch, and has the ownership of the name, but that's all.



    Other smart people can read patents, and see where Apple hasn't gotten a lock.



    We don't even know, this early, if Multitouch will work out so well. I find a double tap on the iPhone to be better, more often, than a pinch or spreading motion. It goes both ways.



    Excellent, and sober, observations, Mel.
  • Reply 31 of 52
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    LG which recently passed Motorola to become the world's 3rd largest seller of phones is launching the KM900 with capacitive touchscreen and multitouch.



    Of course they have experience with capacitive screens dating back to the Prada.



    Details have leaked of the Samsung i8910 which is Symbian based capacitive touchscreen.



    Nokia has launched the 5800XM and will soon launch the N97.



    These phone's represent a far larger threat to Apple's market share than Android or Palm.



    Especially outside the US.
  • Reply 32 of 52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by winterspan View Post


    No it's not, thats a terrible analogy. It all really depends on who has what patents, and all the prior art related to multitouch. Perhaps it only applies to a multi-touch display interface on a mobile device, or even just specific gestures which will be ruled as patentable... Basically, no one really knows much until the court process works it out..



    You're totally out of scope of what I'm saying. Obviously I'm saying IF Apple's intention is to stop any device that resembles any sort of multi-touch concept, that's an act of stopping innovation. That's the point of my analogy. IF Apple succeed in doing this, I don't think we would have a better world. Just imagine what the world would be like if only Mac is allowed to use GUI.



    It's not my interest or intention to discuss how competitors can workaround Apple's patent or to discuss if it is possible for Apple to ban any sort of multi-touch concept on competitor's device or not. Only a smart ass would try to break down the analogy by applying it to what it wasn't intended for.
  • Reply 33 of 52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No it's not. It's only a drawback for those who have no new ideas.



    You are too naive and optimistic about the patent system we have today. There are times and times when those who have no new ideas get the benefits out of the patent system.
  • Reply 34 of 52
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    LG which recently passed Motorola to become the world's 3rd largest seller of phones is launching the KM900 with capacitive touchscreen and multitouch.



    Of course they have experience with capacitive screens dating back to the Prada.



    Details have leaked of the Samsung i8910 which is Symbian based capacitive touchscreen.



    Nokia has launched the 5800XM and will soon launch the N97.



    These phone's represent a far larger threat to Apple's market share than Android or Palm.



    Especially outside the US.



    A review of the 5800:



    http://www.osnews.com/story/20923/Re...00_XpressMusic
  • Reply 35 of 52
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mechengit View Post


    You are too naive and optimistic about the patent system we have today. There are times and times when those who have no new ideas get the benefits out of the patent system.



    I'm not naive about it at all. One of my companies got a couple of dozen patents while I was a partner there, before we sold it. The founder of the company had been the head of R&D of Royal Typewriter, and had over 40 patents of his own. I'm very familiar with patents, what they're for, and how difficult it can be to get one. I've also seen many of them have workarounds that were exploited by others.
  • Reply 36 of 52
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    A review of the 5800:



    http://www.osnews.com/story/20923/Re...00_XpressMusic



    I see the 5800 as Nokia's beta test unit sold cheaply so they can iron out the bugs before the release of the N97.



    The big movers are the Koreans, Samsung is hungry to be number one and they are releasing a multitude of phone's using Winmo, Symbian and their own proprietry OS, unlike Nokia they have been successful in the U.S.
  • Reply 37 of 52
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    I see the 5800 as Nokia's beta test unit sold cheaply so they can iron out the bugs before the release of the N97.



    The big movers are the Koreans, Samsung is hungry to be number one and they are releasing a multitude of phone's using Winmo, Symbian and their own proprietry OS, unlike Nokia they have been successful in the U.S.



    One thing about the N97 is odd. I saw an ad for it here in NYC from J&R, a big electronics and music retailer, months ago. It was offered at some outrageous price. $849 or something.



    When I bought my i300 Palmphone, Samsung was a bit player in the market, with a 5% share. they've come a long way. But their phones are well made.
  • Reply 38 of 52
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,325member
    error
  • Reply 39 of 52
    richlrichl Posts: 2,213member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    One thing about the N97 is odd. I saw an ad for it here in NYC from J&R, a big electronics and music retailer, months ago. It was offered at some outrageous price. $849 or something.



    Huh? How was it being offered for $849 when it's not due out for a couple of months?



    Anyway, the 'outrageous' price tag is because that's an unlocked SIM free price. Remember, the iPhone sells unlocked for roughly $850 in France.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    A review of the 5800:



    http://www.osnews.com/story/20923/Re...00_XpressMusic



    What someone who lives in California thinks is pretty much irrelevant. The reviews from Europe and Asia have been positive.
  • Reply 40 of 52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RichL View Post






    What someone who lives in California thinks is pretty much irrelevant. The reviews from Europe and Asia have been positive.



    How is it irrelevant? All of his criticisms had nothing to do with geographical location. Things like interface efficiency and availability of 3rd party apps are issues that transcend geographical markets.



    The truth is, that people in Europe are a bit snobbish about the iphone. I know, I live here. It just hasn't taken on properly, somehow people think that it's a toy of sorts, not a "serious" phone. It's the same story as how people once thought that Mac OS is a fisher price OS compared to the oh so serious and powerful windows. We all know that's not true. I have used both platforms, and I see how the iphone gives the impression of a simple and easy to use device (misconstrued as a limitation), whereas nokia phones give the impression of a complicated device, which in some cases gets interpreted as something more advanced and powerful. But the truth is that Nokias are a pain in the ass to use. Things like web browsing feel really awkward, and typing using the virtual or even those icky physical keyboards is actually harder than typing on the iphone screen.



    Most of the people that turn their nose at the iphone, are people who haven't actually used it. Sometimes, people are very surprised when I show them what I can do with my ipod touch. I mean, name one phone from Nokia or SE that can control my itunes library on my computer, or be used as a wireless touch pad for my computer, and those are just two little free apps among thousands. The iphone/touch is an immensely powerful device, yet people still scoff at the fact that you can't send an mms with it, oh the horror!



    I laugh quietly to my self when I see those poor saps jabbing away at their phones with their silly little stylus's.
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