Amended Psystar complaint vs. Apple repeats copyright claims

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  • Reply 61 of 140
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    CPU, North bridge, south bridge, GPU, firewire controller, audio processor, network controller, wireless chipset, etc. Not all, but just the major ones. The only thing that are really Apple designed are the fan controllers and the shape of the pCB board. But hey, if pretending we're still in the PowerPC era where all the chips were custom made for the given machine makes you feel better, go ahead.



    Dell et al. don't make any of that stuff. In fact, I'd wager that they produce less components than Apple, but what does any of that matter? Apple didn't make the PPC chips either, they jumped to Intel because IBM's roadmap was poor.



    What I don't get is this anti-American, anti-Capitalist position that some posters have on these forums. Why should OS X be the only Socialist operating system in existence? Why should Apple change its business model that works to one that will make them considerably less money per machine while costing them a great deal more in SW R&D and support in a vane attempt satisfy the cheap and perpetually unsatisfied? None of that helps Apple in any way. I'm sorry, but a single company can't be everything to everyone; thankfully we live in a society were we have the option to choose another product if one doesn't suit our needs.
  • Reply 62 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    thankfully we live in a society were we have the option to choose another product if one doesn't suit our needs.



    Not if you want to run OSX it seems.
  • Reply 63 of 140
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    Not if you want to run OSX it seems.



    A Mac is the HW and SW. If any part of that doesn't suit your needs are you free to choose from a plethora of other vendor options.
  • Reply 64 of 140
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    Yes I can. I can rip apart a book, write in it, glue things to it, then turn around and sell it. The copyright holder has zero case against such a thing, because I paid them for their product.



    If you send that new book to print without getting authorization from the copyright holder then they have a major case. Psystar isn't buying just buying boxes of OS X and selling the boxed copies of OS X. At the very least, they are opening up the boxes and installing the copyrighted material onto their machines which requires them to accept the EULA. What they are probably doing is copying the same hacked copy of OS X over and over again. This is piracy, regardless of how many boxed copies they buy.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    But it is very true. I get sick of this argument that Apple's hardware is superior to everyone else.



    Apple may use their own custom designed motherboards but this is something that everybody does to when standard motherboard sizes will not fit into their design of case or shell. What you are really saying is that Apple have cut a motherboard to fit the shape of a MBP's insides. Big deal. It is still a standard PC motherboard, the same standard motherboard that PC vendors have been using for years. Every other component of an Apple computer is shared with the PC world, they are all made in factories in the far East, you crack open a MBP and you will find components that are shared with everyone else windows PC's.



    Apple's HW is superior in many ways because they limit and integrate their HW to their SW. While some of the rudimentary measurements of their HW is the same as other vendors there are plenty of things you are considering. If two notebooks have trackpads, does that make them the same trackpads? If two notebooks have 15" LCD displays does that make them the same displays? If two notebooks have Intel C2D 2.4GHz CPUs does that make them the same processors? No, no and no!
  • Reply 65 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    If two notebooks have trackpads, does that make them the same trackpads? If two notebooks have 15" LCD displays does that make them the same displays? If two notebooks have Intel C2D 2.4GHz CPUs does that make them the same processors? No, no and no!



    Errr, Yes, Yes and Yes. If the two trackpads are actually the same, if the LCD panels are exactly the same and if the processor is just an off the shelf processor the same as you will find in a Dell.



    OSX does not integrate with the components anymore than windows does. The whole thing is nonsense, In what way do you think that it does?
  • Reply 66 of 140
    Solipsism wrote:

    "What I don't get is this anti-American, anti-Capitalist position that some posters have on these forums. Why should OS X be the only Socialist operating system in existence?"



    Jeeez, after all that's happen these past few months in regards to your high, holy "Capitalism position", don't you think you and your supply-side ilk would be a bit more humble and painstakingly careful in not unnecessarily highlighting the big "S" word - especially since the big "S" is exactly what is being implemented by our treasury to save "Capitalism" from it's own, self-inflicted excesses and greed.



    Seems that real Capitalist like yourself only believe in "socialism" when it serves capitalist interest - as in - "socialize our losses, but privatize our profits", or, Wall Street is "too big to fail", but the rest of the "masses", are "too small to succeed".



    Your jurassic, myopic brand of "solipsism" can be rightfully coined "high, late Capitalism". Nothing

    can be more "anti-American" than slinging around damaging and discredited notions that only a small class of powerful, wealthy oligarchs know what is best for us "masses", and that they are the ones who will bestow us with their largess - if they feel so disposed. HA!
  • Reply 67 of 140
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    Errr, Yes, Yes and Yes. If the two trackpads are actually the same, if the LCD panels are exactly the same and if the processor is just an off the shelf processor the same as you will find in a Dell.



    OSX does not integrate with the components anymore than windows does. The whole thing is nonsense, In what way do you think that it does?



    But they are not the same, and the comparisons that we see posted about others vendors are so much cheaper never use the same basic components. The core speed may be the same but then the L2 and FSB are lower, the screen size may be the same but the panel type and backlighting are different, and the other vendor's trackpads don't have multi-touch, which becomes a real annoyance for me when I have to use a difference machine. Could other vendors use these other components and update the Synaptic drivers and SW to make it more equivalent, sure they could, but that would increase the price without actually adding anything that most spec sheet buyers would understand so they usually don't go that route. Like all markets, there are different strategies. Do you expect expect Outback to a have dollar menu just because other restaurants do? They are certainly losing money to all those people too cheap to pay for a whole steak, just like Apple is losing money from not selling $500 notebooks that run dualcore Pentiums.



    Yes, they do integrate more because they have more control over the environment.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevielee View Post


    Seems that real Capitalist like yourself only believe in "socialism" when it serves capitalist interest - as in - "socialize our losses, but privatize our profits", or, Wall Street is "too big to fail", but the rest of the "masses", are "too small to succeed"



    I'm not in favour of any bailouts so your post is quite moot.
  • Reply 68 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PXT View Post


    I have never understood why Apple sell retail copies of OSX. If you have a Mac, you should be able to buy an upgrade. If not, then you don't need Mac OSX in a box.



    I think it comes down to marketing. Language affects us all in deep psychological and even physiological ways. To say that it's an upgrade somehow denotes that it's the same product with some fixes and minor changes. Apple likes to present major releases (Panther, Tiger, Leopard, etc) as though it's a whole new thing. Whereas upgrades are offered free and represents additional value to the consumer without further expense. New feels better than Upgrade, therefore write new on the box and skip the upgrade label.



    From a purely technical standpoint...all retail boxes are upgrades as you would be "upgrading" the OS on your current Mac. The alternative would be being buying a new Mac which already includes a copy of the latest OS - making it a redundant and pointless expense to buy the retail box "upgrade".
  • Reply 69 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    Not if you want to run OSX it seems.



    Are you also upset that you can't play Xbox 360 games on your Mac or Wii games on your Windows PC? Or that you can't cook your meals in your washing machine?
  • Reply 70 of 140
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Just give me a F#CK@N laptop with an 11 inch screen , weighs 2 .5 lbs, non-highgloss screen (matte or hybrid), firewire, and HDMI running OSX- if not by Apple then someone else.
  • Reply 71 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    A Mac is the HW and SW. If any part of that doesn't suit your needs are you free to choose from a plethora of other vendor options.



    I'm also free to spend a large bundle replacing all of my software and lose a good portion of my files while figuring out how in God's name I'm going to transfer my files that can be read by windows from a Mac using HFS+ to a windows machine using NTFS. Its so black and white to you people, everyday practicality has no room in your argument. Steve Jobs' Apple is infallible and its up to the user to adapt to that. Personally, I prefer the days before his little power trip when you didn't have make major concession to have either the hardware or operating system you wanted. You could have both.
  • Reply 72 of 140
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,053member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    I most certainly can do exactly that if I wanted to. The publisher already made their profit from the original copy. What I do with it after that is none of their business. There are companies that do this very thing. Here's one example of a company that turned printed books into journals: http://bookjournals.com/



    You can do what you want with the ORIGINAL copy (That is still protected by copyright) for PERSONAL use. But you are not allow to do what you want with any altered (derivative) copy that you made for PERSONAL use. You can't even give the altered (derivative) copies away for free. Profit has nothing to do with it. It is an infraction of the copyright law that applies to all copyrighted material. Except maybe for parody, educational use or documentation. Psystar falls under none of those.



    Once again. Apple is NOT after Psystar for reselling retail copies of OSX. Or installing OSX on a generic PC's. Psystar has no legal right to sell or give away that altered (derivative) copy of OSX once they sell the original copy of OSX. That altered copy must be destroyed as it will no longer be for PERSONAL use. Which mean they must sell their computers without OSX installed.
  • Reply 73 of 140
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,053member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    I'm also free to spend a large bundle replacing all of my software and lose a good portion of my files while figuring out how in God's name I'm going to transfer my files that can be read by windows from a Mac using HFS+ to a windows machine using NTFS. Its so black and white to you people, everyday practicality has no room in your argument. Steve Jobs' Apple is infallible and its up to the user to adapt to that. Personally, I prefer the days before his little power trip when you didn't have make major concession to have either the hardware or operating system you wanted. You could have both.



    And you don't think people using Windows now, that are switching to a Mac, don't encounter the same problems? But they still do it and don't bitch about it to MS.



    And you don't seem to know what your talking about. How the files are stored in a Mac has no bearing on whether it can be read on a Windows machine. Mac HSF+ and NTFS are just different ways to format hard drives, NOT the files. You can transfer any file from a Mac to a flash thumb drive (FAT formated) and have it read on a Windows machine with no problem at all. All you need is the proper program that can open up the file.
  • Reply 74 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DavidW View Post


    And you don't think people using Windows now, that are switching to a Mac, don't encounter the same problems? But they still do it and don't bitch about it to MS.



    Not even close. OSX can read and write FAT32 and read NTFS which means you can transfer files from a PC hard drive to a Mac. Windows cannot read a HFS drive.



    Quote:

    And you don't seem to know what your talking about.



    And you seem to know no sense of practicality.



    Quote:

    How the files are stored in a Mac has no bearing on whether it can be read on a Windows machine. Mac HSF+ and NTFS are just different ways to format hard drives, NOT the files. You can transfer any file from a Mac to a flash thumb drive (FAT formated) and have it read on a Windows machine with no problem at all. All you need is the proper program that can open up the file.



    Yeah and you empty the Great Lakes if you have enough buckets and enough time. Sure I can do it. Of course transferring over 100GB worth of via a 4GB flash drive is going to take an awfully long and require keeping track of what files I've transferred. For those of us in the real world its not a very practical solution.
  • Reply 75 of 140
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    I'm also free to spend a large bundle replacing all of my software and lose a good portion of my files while figuring out how in God's name I'm going to transfer my files that can be read by windows from a Mac using HFS+ to a windows machine using NTFS. Its so black and white to you people, everyday practicality has no room in your argument. Steve Jobs' Apple is infallible and its up to the user to adapt to that. Personally, I prefer the days before his little power trip when you didn't have make major concession to have either the hardware or operating system you wanted. You could have both.



    When you choose to go to a different OS you are going to need to update your SW in most cases. Only a few commercial developers create for multiple platforms and allow switching across the platforms. Why is that Apple's fault? Are you suggesting that all OSes should be exactly the same?



    As for switching to Windows, you can install the pay for MacDrive or the free HFSEXplorer or TransMac to let Windows machines read and write to HFS+. You also have more common solutions, like optical media, formatting an external drive as FAT32 and all the various ways you send data over the internet, like FTP, SSH, HTTP, and email. For being black and white, as you say, there sure are a colourful assortment of options at hand.
  • Reply 76 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    Yes I can. I can rip apart a book, write in it, glue things to it, then turn around and sell it. The copyright holder has zero case against such a thing, because I paid them for their product.



    I can't believe you really believe what you're saying!



    If you were a singer, a writer, a painter or any other kind of artist, you would know how wrong you are.



    Why did Eminem sue Apple when they used his work on an iPod ad? Do you remember that ad in which a boy was singing an Eminem's song? Yes, Eminem sued and he was right: Apple didn't ask for permission. Even if they didn't used an actual recording by Eminem, they used the lyrics, which Eminem has rights over.



    When you buy a book, you buy the paper and ink that it's made of. The written work is still owned by the author. This is a fact. Just ask any lawyer.



    And, just FYI, I don't like Eminem and his music. I don't really like the fact that Apple chose to use an Eminem song for their ad...



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    As a holder of several registered copyrights, I'm quite aware of copyright law especially with regards to publishing. There is NO restriction on value added reselling of legally purchased works.



    Really? I don't like "flaming", but you're really asking for it. Have you ever heard the term "troll"? Please, give up. Your argument is flawed...





    Cheers,

    _iCeb0x_
  • Reply 77 of 140
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    Yes I can. I can rip apart a book, write in it, glue things to it, then turn around and sell it. The copyright holder has zero case against such a thing, because I paid them for their product.



    Good luck! What's stopping you?!



    Quote:

    As a holder of several registered copyrights, I'm quite aware of copyright law especially with regards to publishing. There is NO restriction on value added reselling of legally purchased works.



    Can you please sell me some of your copyrighted work? I would like to make some easy money
  • Reply 78 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    Good luck! What's stopping you?!







    Can you please sell me some of your copyrighted work? I would like to make some easy money



    Yeah I have an idea for a new tickle me Elmo toy, but instead we'll make it green and call it Elmer. We can use the original Elmo voice recordings too because we can just buy an Elmo doll and record direct from there - after all its our right! Then I can sell it and just use the original artwork from the box, but he'll be green of course.... I could make millions!
  • Reply 79 of 140
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    Good luck! What's stopping you?



    Morgan Freeman could make a lot of many making audiobook if we had no copyright law.
  • Reply 80 of 140
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    But it is very true. I get sick of this argument that Apple's hardware is superior to everyone else.



    Apple may use their own custom designed motherboards but this is something that everybody does to when standard motherboard sizes will not fit into their design of case or shell. What you are really saying is that Apple have cut a motherboard to fit the shape of a MBP's insides. Big deal. It is still a standard PC motherboard, the same standard motherboard that PC vendors have been using for years. Every other component of an Apple computer is shared with the PC world, they are all made in factories in the far East, you crack open a MBP and you will find components that are shared with everyone else windows PC's.



    This thread is turning into the kiddie thread.



    Murphster, you just don't know what the heck you're even talking about here and you're looking like a fool.



    You think the hardware is "off-the-shelf" and then you hear the MB's are custom so you make up some sh*te about that. Give it up man, everyone can see you don't know squat here.



    Custom MB design's made with custom parts and patented Apple chips which are also custom. Look it up if you don't believe the people on this thread that are telling you what the truth is. They even use intelligent fan systems with customised firmware and they've been doing that kind of stuff for years.



    You are actually so ignorant that you think they just plug a lot of chips onto a MB that they cut to fit with a pair of shears or something? You think the trackpad is the same as any other trackpad? The only parts they buy "off the shelf" are the HD's, the memory chips and the screens, and when they do that, they buy the *best* quality of each.



    YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AND IT IS PLAIN AS DAY.
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