Demand for the new mini I can understand. I want one for my home theatre too.
Demand for the new iMac I simply cannot. All that happened was a very minor CPU/GPU bump and an increase to the quantity of RAM and HD storage that bargain PCs have had for years. The new iMac is a HUGE disappointment that has convinced me to go the hackintosh route. I should be able to get a quad core PC and 30" display for roughly the same price as the 2.93GHz iMac.
Have fun with those updates! I tried it, not worth it.
EDIT: I'm talking app updates, not majors. iTunes 7.6-7.6.1 crashed it.
The best deal right now is the previous iMac 24" 2.8 GHz for $1,399 at the Apple Store Clearance, $1,299 for education discount, or at Amazon for $1,394.
I'd get the new $1499 2.66ghz imac instead. $1360ish after AI discount.
The new one has twice the hard drive and memory. I'd rather have those upgrades than a slightly faster gpu or cpu.
Demand for the new mini I can understand. I want one for my home theatre too.
Demand for the new iMac I simply cannot. All that happened was a very minor CPU/GPU bump and an increase to the quantity of RAM and HD storage that bargain PCs have had for years. The new iMac is a HUGE disappointment that has convinced me to go the hackintosh route. I should be able to get a quad core PC and 30" display for roughly the same price as the 2.93GHz iMac.
Um... don't you get it? 95% of Mac buyers can't tell the difference between 2 Ghz and 3 Ghz, between two cores and four, between 1 gb of RAM and 4 gb. But something that's new.... well everyone knows that's a good thing.
Don't make the common nerd mistake of thinking that the normal people out there that make up 95% of the public understand or care about these things.
Um... don't you get it? 95% of Mac buyers can't tell the difference between 2 Ghz and 3 Ghz, between two cores and four, between 1 gb of RAM and 4 gb. But something that's new.... well everyone knows that's a good thing.
Don't make the common nerd mistake of thinking that the normal people out there that make up 95% of the public understand or care about these things.
And the reason why "the common people" don't care, is that it doesn't matter to them, computers are fast enough right now for most people.
And the reason why "the common people" don't care, is that it doesn't matter to them, computers are fast enough right now for most people.
Exactly. So all the whining about this feature or that feature is just wasted time - the people Apple sells computers to don't care about that stuff, and that's why Apple doesn't care about that stuff.
And the reason why "the common people" don't care, is that it doesn't matter to them, computers are fast enough right now for most people.
The only one that I would disagree with here is the RAM. Even the lay person will notice the difference in 2GB of RAM over the 1GB. At least if they do anything with iPhoto they will.
The other thing that people will notice is the hard drive size. Which is still the one area that I think Apple is short changing the Mini.
The only one that I would disagree with here is the RAM. Even the lay person will notice the difference in 2GB of RAM over the 1GB. At least if they do anything with iPhoto they will.
The other thing that people will notice is the hard drive size. Which is still the one area that I think Apple is short changing the Mini.
Otherwise, I completely agree with you.
They can add RAM. It's not as hard as some think.
As for more drive space, if one REALLY needs it, this is a GREAT solution. The Ministack. I have an older one with a 1 TB drive for my audio system.
Here in New Zealand, Apple is asking for NZ$1850 (roughly US$925) for 2GB RAM/320GB HDD version, no monitor (not sure if keyboard and mouse are included?).
That is hardly reasonable. I think you can still get previous generation MacBook White for the same money here. Sure it has only 1GB of RAM and 120GB HDD, but it is complete machine - and a notebook.
While I like the looks and size of Mini, I really can't digest simple fact that my new dream-PC will cost the same amount of money...
Here in New Zealand, Apple is asking for NZ$1850 (roughly US$925) for 2GB RAM/320GB HDD version, no monitor (not sure if keyboard and mouse are included?).
That is hardly reasonable. I think you can still get previous generation MacBook White for the same money here. Sure it has only 1GB of RAM and 120GB HDD, but it is complete machine - and a notebook.
While I like the looks and size of Mini, I really can't digest simple fact that my new dream-PC will cost the same amount of money...
The white MacBook that you mention is essentially the same spec as the lower-priced mini, not the one you listed. What is the price in New Zealand for the base mini?
BTW, I suspect the low price mini will outsell the high price model by five to one or more.
The only one that I would disagree with here is the RAM. Even the lay person will notice the difference in 2GB of RAM over the 1GB. At least if they do anything with iPhoto they will.
The other thing that people will notice is the hard drive size. Which is still the one area that I think Apple is short changing the Mini.
Otherwise, I completely agree with you.
It's just not true. While iPhoto does appreciate more RAM for libraries with several thousand pictures, that 95% of the population does NOT have thousands of pictures in their libraries!
Same with hard drive size - to fill up even 120 GB, you need a hundred thousand pictures, 40,000 ripped songs or some combination of the two. That 95% of the world will never get close to those numbers.
It's just not true. While iPhoto does appreciate more RAM for libraries with several thousand pictures, that 95% of the population does NOT have thousands of pictures in their libraries!
Same with hard drive size - to fill up even 120 GB, you need a hundred thousand pictures, 40,000 ripped songs or some combination of the two. That 95% of the world will never get close to those numbers.
I don't know what figures you're using... but my ~15,000 song library takes up 80+GB. I'd also say the majority of the population does have thousands of photos in their library. Its very easy to take a few hundred on one trip. Maybe the people you come in contact day to day don't have large photo libraries.
@ melgross.
I've upgraded RAM in two Mac minis... it is not a user serviceable upgrade, to say the least.
I don't know what figures you're using... but my ~15,000 song library takes up 80+GB. I'd also say the majority of the population does have thousands of photos in their library. Its very easy to take a few hundred on one trip. Maybe the people you come in contact day to day don't have large photo libraries.
Music is different from photos. But I'd have to agree that mosr people don't have that many. i read an interesting article about a year ago that said that many people with digital cameras just keep photos on their cards, and show them using the LCD on the back of the cameras. Odd, I thought, but I'm finding that people are doing that.
Quote:
@ melgross.
I've upgraded RAM in two Mac minis... it is not a user serviceable upgrade, to say the least.
I've done a few, and it's not so tough. I suppose if someone isn't used to taking things apart, then it would be difficult. But RAM upgrade companies often provide a plastic "cracker" along with instructions. It's not for everyone, but those who need it are often more familiar with computers than the rest of the population. The rest should just pay the extra $100.
I don't know what figures you're using... but my ~15,000 song library takes up 80+GB. I'd also say the majority of the population does have thousands of photos in their library. Its very easy to take a few hundred on one trip. Maybe the people you come in contact day to day don't have large photo libraries.
That's right - the people I come in contact with don't have large photo libraries. I run a computer support business in the DC area, and my clients are generally top 10% net worth in the country, the kind who buy a new computer when they want one and get one for the maid as well. I have ONE client who needed to change his computer based on his photo library, out of a total of 800 clients on my roster at this point (5 years running the business). I daresay that my experience is easily large enough to be considered valuable information, and if anything, more likely than average to have heavy requirements.
And yeah, 15,000 song libraries are HUUUUGE.
Nerds have a very hard time understanding that they and their friends are FAAAAR from representative of any reasonable segment of the market.
The white MacBook that you mention is essentially the same spec as the lower-priced mini, not the one you listed. What is the price in New Zealand for the base mini?
BTW, I suspect the low price mini will outsell the high price model by five to one or more.
Basic Mini with 1GB RAM and 120GB HDD is NZ$1400 (US$700).
Still expensive, but better; Apple is charging premium for extra RAM and some more HDD space...
I know that old MacBook is lower spec than Mini 2/320GB, but it is notebook (thus expected to be a bit more expensive than equally spec desktop) and comes with screen, keyboard, touchpad, battery...
Mac fanatics need to realize that people aren't switching to Macs because of the hardware, they are switching because of OS X. It probably kills Steve Jobs to see this, but the hardware just doesn't matter. And I wish people would stop talking about the "integration" of OS X and Mac hardware. What integration? The insides of all Macs are the same as PC's now.
Not entirely. Apple uses custom motherboards, and no PC currently uses the Nvidia chipset used in Macs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jocknerd
And I wish people would stop talking about the "integration" of OS X and Mac hardware. What integration? The insides of all Macs are the same as PC's now.
Mac fanatics need to realize that people aren't switching to Macs because of the hardware, they are switching because of OS X. It probably kills Steve Jobs to see this, but the hardware just doesn't matter. And I wish people would stop talking about the "integration" of OS X and Mac hardware. What integration? The insides of all Macs are the same as PC's now.
Mostly true, but if I'm getting lesser HW for the same amount of money, it's not that difficult for me to look away, and plan on getting a future Win7 PC instead; for about $1000, I could get a PC with a Core i7 920, 3-6 GB of DDR3 RAM, a good dedicated Nvidia or ATI GPU. etc.
There are a lot of things that I do prefer in OSX over Windows, but it's not like the OS' are that different anymore, or that iLife some sort of wunderapp, same goes with iWork - lightweight apps. for lightweight uses. Give me Office 2007, every day of the week, twice on Sunday, over iWork, Picasa over iPhoto.
I like iWeb, but don't do any web sites anymore, nor do I have a camcorder, so I've never had a use for iMovie/IDVD.
The only one that I would disagree with here is the RAM. Even the lay person will notice the difference in 2GB of RAM over the 1GB. At least if they do anything with iPhoto they will.
The other thing that people will notice is the hard drive size. Which is still the one area that I think Apple is short changing the Mini.
Otherwise, I completely agree with you.
The cost of upping the RAM to 2gig, even directly through Apple, has reached the point where it's not really much of a factor any more. Here in Canada, ordering the mini with an additional gig is a $60 option. Pocket change by anyone's standards, I would think.
I do agree that the hard drive is one area in which the mini is shortchanged but on the other hand, with my current mini I have several external hard drives that are allowing me to do what I want. In that regard, Firewire 800 is a very significant upgrade.
One thing, though, is that apparently the model with the bigger hard drive performs better. Why that is, I can't imagine.
Comments
Demand for the new mini I can understand. I want one for my home theatre too.
Demand for the new iMac I simply cannot. All that happened was a very minor CPU/GPU bump and an increase to the quantity of RAM and HD storage that bargain PCs have had for years. The new iMac is a HUGE disappointment that has convinced me to go the hackintosh route. I should be able to get a quad core PC and 30" display for roughly the same price as the 2.93GHz iMac.
Have fun with those updates! I tried it, not worth it.
EDIT: I'm talking app updates, not majors. iTunes 7.6-7.6.1 crashed it.
The best deal right now is the previous iMac 24" 2.8 GHz for $1,399 at the Apple Store Clearance, $1,299 for education discount, or at Amazon for $1,394.
I'd get the new $1499 2.66ghz imac instead. $1360ish after AI discount.
The new one has twice the hard drive and memory. I'd rather have those upgrades than a slightly faster gpu or cpu.
Demand for the new mini I can understand. I want one for my home theatre too.
Demand for the new iMac I simply cannot. All that happened was a very minor CPU/GPU bump and an increase to the quantity of RAM and HD storage that bargain PCs have had for years. The new iMac is a HUGE disappointment that has convinced me to go the hackintosh route. I should be able to get a quad core PC and 30" display for roughly the same price as the 2.93GHz iMac.
Um... don't you get it? 95% of Mac buyers can't tell the difference between 2 Ghz and 3 Ghz, between two cores and four, between 1 gb of RAM and 4 gb. But something that's new.... well everyone knows that's a good thing.
Don't make the common nerd mistake of thinking that the normal people out there that make up 95% of the public understand or care about these things.
Um... don't you get it? 95% of Mac buyers can't tell the difference between 2 Ghz and 3 Ghz, between two cores and four, between 1 gb of RAM and 4 gb. But something that's new.... well everyone knows that's a good thing.
Don't make the common nerd mistake of thinking that the normal people out there that make up 95% of the public understand or care about these things.
And the reason why "the common people" don't care, is that it doesn't matter to them, computers are fast enough right now for most people.
And the reason why "the common people" don't care, is that it doesn't matter to them, computers are fast enough right now for most people.
Exactly. So all the whining about this feature or that feature is just wasted time - the people Apple sells computers to don't care about that stuff, and that's why Apple doesn't care about that stuff.
And the reason why "the common people" don't care, is that it doesn't matter to them, computers are fast enough right now for most people.
The only one that I would disagree with here is the RAM. Even the lay person will notice the difference in 2GB of RAM over the 1GB. At least if they do anything with iPhoto they will.
The other thing that people will notice is the hard drive size. Which is still the one area that I think Apple is short changing the Mini.
Otherwise, I completely agree with you.
The only one that I would disagree with here is the RAM. Even the lay person will notice the difference in 2GB of RAM over the 1GB. At least if they do anything with iPhoto they will.
The other thing that people will notice is the hard drive size. Which is still the one area that I think Apple is short changing the Mini.
Otherwise, I completely agree with you.
They can add RAM. It's not as hard as some think.
As for more drive space, if one REALLY needs it, this is a GREAT solution. The Ministack. I have an older one with a 1 TB drive for my audio system.
http://www.newertech.com/products/externalhd.php
Here in New Zealand, Apple is asking for NZ$1850 (roughly US$925) for 2GB RAM/320GB HDD version, no monitor (not sure if keyboard and mouse are included?).
That is hardly reasonable. I think you can still get previous generation MacBook White for the same money here. Sure it has only 1GB of RAM and 120GB HDD, but it is complete machine - and a notebook.
While I like the looks and size of Mini, I really can't digest simple fact that my new dream-PC will cost the same amount of money...
They can add RAM. It's not as hard as some think.
As for more drive space, if one REALLY needs it, this is a GREAT solution. The Ministack. I have an older one with a 1 TB drive for my audio system.
http://www.newertech.com/products/externalhd.php
Cool, I am getting one of those, I didn't even know they existed. Thanks for the heads up!!!!!
How much is new Mini in US..?
Here in New Zealand, Apple is asking for NZ$1850 (roughly US$925) for 2GB RAM/320GB HDD version, no monitor (not sure if keyboard and mouse are included?).
That is hardly reasonable. I think you can still get previous generation MacBook White for the same money here. Sure it has only 1GB of RAM and 120GB HDD, but it is complete machine - and a notebook.
While I like the looks and size of Mini, I really can't digest simple fact that my new dream-PC will cost the same amount of money...
The white MacBook that you mention is essentially the same spec as the lower-priced mini, not the one you listed. What is the price in New Zealand for the base mini?
BTW, I suspect the low price mini will outsell the high price model by five to one or more.
The only one that I would disagree with here is the RAM. Even the lay person will notice the difference in 2GB of RAM over the 1GB. At least if they do anything with iPhoto they will.
The other thing that people will notice is the hard drive size. Which is still the one area that I think Apple is short changing the Mini.
Otherwise, I completely agree with you.
It's just not true. While iPhoto does appreciate more RAM for libraries with several thousand pictures, that 95% of the population does NOT have thousands of pictures in their libraries!
Same with hard drive size - to fill up even 120 GB, you need a hundred thousand pictures, 40,000 ripped songs or some combination of the two. That 95% of the world will never get close to those numbers.
It's just not true. While iPhoto does appreciate more RAM for libraries with several thousand pictures, that 95% of the population does NOT have thousands of pictures in their libraries!
Same with hard drive size - to fill up even 120 GB, you need a hundred thousand pictures, 40,000 ripped songs or some combination of the two. That 95% of the world will never get close to those numbers.
I don't know what figures you're using... but my ~15,000 song library takes up 80+GB. I'd also say the majority of the population does have thousands of photos in their library. Its very easy to take a few hundred on one trip. Maybe the people you come in contact day to day don't have large photo libraries.
@ melgross.
I've upgraded RAM in two Mac minis... it is not a user serviceable upgrade, to say the least.
I don't know what figures you're using... but my ~15,000 song library takes up 80+GB. I'd also say the majority of the population does have thousands of photos in their library. Its very easy to take a few hundred on one trip. Maybe the people you come in contact day to day don't have large photo libraries.
Music is different from photos. But I'd have to agree that mosr people don't have that many. i read an interesting article about a year ago that said that many people with digital cameras just keep photos on their cards, and show them using the LCD on the back of the cameras. Odd, I thought, but I'm finding that people are doing that.
@ melgross.
I've upgraded RAM in two Mac minis... it is not a user serviceable upgrade, to say the least.
I've done a few, and it's not so tough. I suppose if someone isn't used to taking things apart, then it would be difficult. But RAM upgrade companies often provide a plastic "cracker" along with instructions. It's not for everyone, but those who need it are often more familiar with computers than the rest of the population. The rest should just pay the extra $100.
And that's what they do!
I don't know what figures you're using... but my ~15,000 song library takes up 80+GB. I'd also say the majority of the population does have thousands of photos in their library. Its very easy to take a few hundred on one trip. Maybe the people you come in contact day to day don't have large photo libraries.
That's right - the people I come in contact with don't have large photo libraries. I run a computer support business in the DC area, and my clients are generally top 10% net worth in the country, the kind who buy a new computer when they want one and get one for the maid as well. I have ONE client who needed to change his computer based on his photo library, out of a total of 800 clients on my roster at this point (5 years running the business). I daresay that my experience is easily large enough to be considered valuable information, and if anything, more likely than average to have heavy requirements.
And yeah, 15,000 song libraries are HUUUUGE.
Nerds have a very hard time understanding that they and their friends are FAAAAR from representative of any reasonable segment of the market.
The white MacBook that you mention is essentially the same spec as the lower-priced mini, not the one you listed. What is the price in New Zealand for the base mini?
BTW, I suspect the low price mini will outsell the high price model by five to one or more.
Basic Mini with 1GB RAM and 120GB HDD is NZ$1400 (US$700).
Still expensive, but better; Apple is charging premium for extra RAM and some more HDD space...
I know that old MacBook is lower spec than Mini 2/320GB, but it is notebook (thus expected to be a bit more expensive than equally spec desktop) and comes with screen, keyboard, touchpad, battery...
And I wish people would stop talking about the "integration" of OS X and Mac hardware. What integration? The insides of all Macs are the same as PC's now.
Mac fanatics need to realize that people aren't switching to Macs because of the hardware, they are switching because of OS X. It probably kills Steve Jobs to see this, but the hardware just doesn't matter. And I wish people would stop talking about the "integration" of OS X and Mac hardware. What integration? The insides of all Macs are the same as PC's now.
Mostly true, but if I'm getting lesser HW for the same amount of money, it's not that difficult for me to look away, and plan on getting a future Win7 PC instead; for about $1000, I could get a PC with a Core i7 920, 3-6 GB of DDR3 RAM, a good dedicated Nvidia or ATI GPU. etc.
There are a lot of things that I do prefer in OSX over Windows, but it's not like the OS' are that different anymore, or that iLife some sort of wunderapp, same goes with iWork - lightweight apps. for lightweight uses. Give me Office 2007, every day of the week, twice on Sunday, over iWork, Picasa over iPhoto.
I like iWeb, but don't do any web sites anymore, nor do I have a camcorder, so I've never had a use for iMovie/IDVD.
The only one that I would disagree with here is the RAM. Even the lay person will notice the difference in 2GB of RAM over the 1GB. At least if they do anything with iPhoto they will.
The other thing that people will notice is the hard drive size. Which is still the one area that I think Apple is short changing the Mini.
Otherwise, I completely agree with you.
The cost of upping the RAM to 2gig, even directly through Apple, has reached the point where it's not really much of a factor any more. Here in Canada, ordering the mini with an additional gig is a $60 option. Pocket change by anyone's standards, I would think.
I do agree that the hard drive is one area in which the mini is shortchanged but on the other hand, with my current mini I have several external hard drives that are allowing me to do what I want. In that regard, Firewire 800 is a very significant upgrade.
One thing, though, is that apparently the model with the bigger hard drive performs better. Why that is, I can't imagine.