That "is" great. Apple sure knows how to package a product. The case may be
6yrs old in external appearance but there's a whole lot of shifting going on inside.
I gotta tell ya, this case is about efficient as I've ever seen as far as cooling ability goes. The external is almost exactly the same as on my old dual 2 GHz G5, but the insides are so much more elegant. The G5 was really crammed.
Most servers and workstations look somewhat like this one, except in black, or have that really ugly Darth Vader vertical slot thing going on.
While It would have been nice to see a new case, just because... the truth is, there's nothing wrong with the old one. How does one improve upon something that's so perfect already. I know that really sounds fanboyish, but, really, what could they have done to make it better (other than to add another removable slot in the front, which would have added height and cost)?
I like the way the cards can be inserted and removed. The captive screws, of course, are always a delight, along with the vibration washers on the HDD trays, but that's old news, mostly.
It looks like upgrading the CPU's will be far easier than before, and that's a big plus.
The fastest machine tested so far has a score of 2336 points on a Core i7 Processor 920 with Graphics card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 with 3GB RAM running Safari 4.0 on Windows XP.
The fastest machine tested so far has a score of 2336 points on a Core i7 Processor 920 with Graphics card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 with 3GB RAM running Safari 4.0 on Windows XP.
I don't usually benchmark anymore, as there are many fine sites that do a pretty good job. All I usually do it to run some video on FCS that I have around for that, as well as some photo files for Photoshop, and a couple of others.
I just got back to the machine, as I had friends over for the afternoon and evening. I've just now finished getting everything disconnected from my old machine and on to this one, and did the 10 updates and such.
I figured I would do it right now, as I've got to do the Friday duty of taking out the garbage.
But, guess what? Even though I'm using Safari beta 4.xx on the old machine, since its a beta, the migration assistant didn't bring it over!
I should have realized that. So my first benchmark is with Safari 3.2.1.
It's 1136.
This is with a dual 2.66 with 6Gb RAM on with Apple's 6 sticks. I intend to put in 16 GB from OWC within the week. I'm happy I didn't buy it sooner, as the price already dropped almost 40%!
While I go out now, I'll download 4, and try it with that shortly.
Ok, I'm back again. With Safari 4 (5528.16) I got a score of 1851.
Interestingly, I read their notice about one window etc. For the first run, I had left the cursor where the click to start the test was, and got a score of 1843. I don't know if that was why, or if it's just a random difference.
But it's actually good that I had 3.2.1 on the machine at first, as we can now compare them directly. It's a big jump from 1136.
I don't know why that Windows machine is faster, though Macs have always seemed to be a bit slower on the net for some reason. Something in the OS.
Ok, I'm back again. With Safari 4 (5528.16) I got a score of 1851.
Interestingly, I read their notice about one window etc. For the first run, I had left the cursor where the click to start the test was, and got a score of 1843. I don't know if that was why, or if it's just a random difference.
But it's actually good that I had 3.2.1 on the machine at first, as we can now compare them directly. It's a big jump from 1136.
I don't know why that Windows machine is faster, though Macs have always seemed to be a bit slower on the net for some reason. Something in the OS.
Interesting results. I found that site today through one trustworthy site. Since it outputs results based on your system I feel it offers more real world results.
It's possible that the Cor i7 with Windows and Safari may have been "tuned" specifically for that test. Either way, your results do coincide with Apple's statements about the latest Safari JS engine being significantly faster.
PS: My score of ~1400 was with a late-2008 MacBook (2.4GHz, 3.75GB* RAM) with 10.6 (10a286) running Safari 4 Beta (6530.1).
Interesting results. I found that site today through one trustworthy site. Since it outputs results based on your system I feel it offers more real world results.
It's possible that the Cor i7 with Windows and Safari may have been "tuned" specifically for that test. Either way, your results do coincide with Apple's statements about the latest Safari JS engine being significantly faster.
I'm sorry I didn't get to the forum with my old dual G5 first. Right now, it's turned off, and disconnected. I even still have a dual mirror door, with 4 that I could try, just for the heck of it. Over the weekend, if I get time.
But I have noticed as has my family, on their machines, that 4 is most definitely faster.
Now now, Mel... Charlie Demerjian at Inquirer is very vocally anti-Nvidia. The original poster asked what is better than the ATI 4870. The GTX295 is.
If by Ughhh you mean you're dissatisfied with Nvidia, in some way so am I. The huge, fat, hot die which they just got to 55nm only recently, GTX260 not flowing down to mainstream resulting in rebranded 9800s which are rebranded 8800s and the so-called "GT120" and "130" basically Nvidia 9500 and 9600s or so...
Very naughty of Nvidia.
On the other hand, the ATI RV770 is an excellent GPU that is kicking ass in the ATI 4870X2, 4870, 4850 and 4830. Excellent value for money and possibly more profitable than Nvidia's offerings around that price range.
However as the Inquirer points out as well, the ATI 4890 was supposed to be an RV790, the last at 55nm before ATI rolls out their 40nm dekstop parts. Instead, the ATI 4890 is seems, according to the Inquirer, an upclocked 4870.
ATI has announced 40nm mobile GPUs but as for desktop no real news yet.
Basically, both ATI and Nvidia need to continue to push volume through this low sales year, Nvidia's rebranding of their 9-series is a very intelligent (if devious) move and offering them at competitive price/performance points will help them sell. The Inquirer is right though, Nvidia's probably going to post several quarters of lousy numbers.
Nvidia has got about a year to (A) sort out their mess and get down to 40nm as fast and economical as possible. (B) seriously start rethinking their monolithic GPU design. In 2010, they could still be depending on GTX280~etc derivatives at 40nm and G92(9-series) at 40nm... But by 2010 ATI could be dominating them with *their* 40nm RV870. Whatever they did with the RV770, they got it right. Mobility wise though I wonder if you see more Nvidia GPUs in laptops than ATI. I don't have the numbers.
I'm sure I haven't got all the facts right but... I think it is an interesting time for GPU manufacturers. The demands on Intel are still big -- cheaper, cooler, quadcore in mobile. The demands on GPU manufacturers can be even bigger, especially if all this GPGPU talk really starts gets integrated into Windows 7 or even XP/Vista apps, and when we start to see "killer apps" from OpenCL in Snow Leopard.
Then again, AMD ain't doin too well so I wonder if that weighs down ATI, and Nvidia, well, we've talked about the challenges they face.
Both AMD-ATI and Nvidia have a tough one this year. In the meantime, I'm perhaps not buying a GPU this year yet... although the ATI 4850 is showing some real good price/performance right now. I'm avoiding the GTX260 or 280 (too long and too big), the 1GB GTS250 has shrunk somewhat but is a rebranded year-old 9800GTX+, and anything less than a 9800GT (GT130 or GTS240 or whatever the heck its called) won't fly at 1680x1050 and 1920x1200 resolutions.
So... Just gonna sit back and watch them ATI 4850 prices come a tumblin' down, maybe even the 4870 at 40nm (when it happens) will be at ATI 4850 prices in 3-5 months time.
I might go for a ATI 4850 512MB in my PC build to run at 1680x1050 20" LG/Samsung screen... Then maybe towards the end of the year see what the ATI 5000 series @ 40nm brings...
Then again, I might just save up. Darn' global recession.
Only need for Windows is to play latest FPS like Crysis and Far Cry 2 -like to run 25x16 on 30" Cinema Display with settings as high as possible for visual realism.
Will I be able to add 2nd 4870:
- Proper slots available?
- Power requirements?
- Will Crossfire work?
- Will an Apple CTO 4870 and the second Windows 4870 work together under Crossfire?
- XP vs Vista 64 - one better than the other for Crossfire under BootCamp?
Is there a better solution?
Thanks for any advice - extensive Web searching hasn't yielded any answers.
"Oh come on! You are really getting sillier by the day.
You KNOW I'm not an apologist.
So, yes, Apple should have included it. I've been stating for several years now, since third parties aren't offering boards, that Apple should make some effort to give us a wider selection.
Even if it means that they have to PAY board makers to do so!"
Bless you my son. There is hope for you yet.
Lemon Bon Bon.
PS. It wasn't me who made the made your referral to the Apple Apologist Dept. It was in fact my PC owning friend that 'lurks' these boards...
"What GPU did you want? I thought that the ATI one was the fastest one out right now (based on toms hardware reviews)."
One that Apple doesn't carry? Eg, A high end one?
eg. 295, x2, any forthcoming ATI 295 beater...?
Something with a mainstream amount of vram on it? eg 1-2 gigs of vram rather than a paltry 512 megs?
My PC owning friend has 2 gigs of vram on his ATI x2 card. It will handle the 'pro' resolutions much better than the single card 4870's 512 meg of vram.
It's just typical of Apple's 'We're pro, honest...' but penny pinching attitude. I walked into PC World the other day...and guess what? A 1 gig of VRAM card 4870 for about the same price as Apple's card. Apple have always been stingy with VRAM. Tight ass company. That's their problem.
While It would have been nice to see a new case, just because... the truth is, there's nothing wrong with the old one.
I'd have to agree with that. It is state of the art. Timeless. Sure a 'skin refresh' would have been nice with 'black accenting'. But really. It says it all that Apple didn't change it. It speaks for itself. Even against the best PC cases over five years after the fact. It looks superbly engineered.
I have to congratulate Melgross on his purchase. It sounds like you're going to be very happy with it.
I don't think Crossfire will work with 2 4870s in BootCamp. Like you say, not much info on this in the wild.
25x16 30" Crysis... boy you're talking SLI Nvidia GTX280's or Nvidia GTX295 or ATI 4870 X2 or Crossfire ATI 4870 or Quad SLI (SLI two GTX295's) and so on.
All of which it is dubious will run on your Mac Pro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malenfant
Only need for Windows is to play latest FPS like Crysis and Far Cry 2 -like to run 25x16 on 30" Cinema Display with settings as high as possible for visual realism.
Will I be able to add 2nd 4870:
- Proper slots available?
- Power requirements?
- Will Crossfire work?
- Will an Apple CTO 4870 and the second Windows 4870 work together under Crossfire?
- XP vs Vista 64 - one better than the other for Crossfire under BootCamp?
Is there a better solution?
Thanks for any advice - extensive Web searching hasn't yielded any answers.
I'd have to agree with that. It is state of the art. Timeless. Sure a 'skin refresh' would have been nice with 'black accenting'. But really. It says it all that Apple didn't change it. It speaks for itself. Even against the best PC cases over five years after the fact. It looks superbly engineered.
I have to congratulate Melgross on his purchase. It sounds like you're going to be very happy with it.
Enjoy.
Lemon Bon Bon.
It is still the best PC case out there. For five years now. The Asus Vento's came close but of a very, very different nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon.
"What GPU did you want? I thought that the ATI one was the fastest one out right now (based on toms hardware reviews)."
One that Apple doesn't carry? Eg, A high end one?
eg. 295, x2, any forthcoming ATI 295 beater...?
Something with a mainstream amount of vram on it? eg 1-2 gigs of vram rather than a paltry 512 megs?
My PC owning friend has 2 gigs of vram on his ATI x2 card. It will handle the 'pro' resolutions much better than the single card 4870's 512 meg of vram.
It's just typical of Apple's 'We're pro, honest...' but penny pinching attitude. I walked into PC World the other day...and guess what? A 1 gig of VRAM card 4870 for about the same price as Apple's card. Apple have always been stingy with VRAM. Tight ass company. That's their problem.
Flawed.
Lemon Bon Bon.
HA HA yeah I forgot the ATI 4870 is only 512MB. That's a bit naughty of Apple to be their "highest end" offering. For the ATI 4850 you can get by with 512MB but the 4870 needs 1GB for really pushing pixels at 1920x1200 and of course 2560x1600...
Some of this GPU fiasco has to be blamed on Crysis and their makers. The GPU requirements are absolutely ridiculous in comparison with the rest of the industry, for visuals that... well, I would be hard pressed to say are *that* much better than other games.
Far Cry 2 for example, that uses a completely different engine and achieves some good visuals without totally raping framerates.
When Crysis came out, it made everybody start thinking, Oh Sh*t... what if in 1 or 2 years time all games will require this? My GPU will be very very obsolete very fast.
That XBox360 is looking better and better by the day.
Comments
GTX295
Ughhh!
EDIT:
Added this:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...s-losing-money
My new Mac Pro just arrived 10 minutes ago.
I like the new layout very much.
The sliding, removable processor/memory tray is great.
I'd like to see the new Fire Pro's.
My new Mac Pro just arrived 10 minutes ago.
I like the new layout very much.
The sliding, removable processor/memory tray is great.
That "is" great. Apple sure knows how to package a product. The case may be
6yrs old in external appearance but there's a whole lot of shifting going on inside.
That "is" great. Apple sure knows how to package a product. The case may be
6yrs old in external appearance but there's a whole lot of shifting going on inside.
I gotta tell ya, this case is about efficient as I've ever seen as far as cooling ability goes. The external is almost exactly the same as on my old dual 2 GHz G5, but the insides are so much more elegant. The G5 was really crammed.
Most servers and workstations look somewhat like this one, except in black, or have that really ugly Darth Vader vertical slot thing going on.
While It would have been nice to see a new case, just because... the truth is, there's nothing wrong with the old one. How does one improve upon something that's so perfect already. I know that really sounds fanboyish, but, really, what could they have done to make it better (other than to add another removable slot in the front, which would have added height and cost)?
I like the way the cards can be inserted and removed. The captive screws, of course, are always a delight, along with the vibration washers on the HDD trays, but that's old news, mostly.
It looks like upgrading the CPU's will be far easier than before, and that's a big plus.
Out of curiosity, what is your Mac Pro's benchmark with Safari 4.0 on this JS testing site?The fastest machine tested so far has a score of 2336 points on a Core i7 Processor 920 with Graphics card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 with 3GB RAM running Safari 4.0 on Windows XP.
Melgross,
Out of curiosity, what is your Mac Pro's benchmark with Safari 4.0 on this JS testing site?The fastest machine tested so far has a score of 2336 points on a Core i7 Processor 920 with Graphics card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 with 3GB RAM running Safari 4.0 on Windows XP.
I don't usually benchmark anymore, as there are many fine sites that do a pretty good job. All I usually do it to run some video on FCS that I have around for that, as well as some photo files for Photoshop, and a couple of others.
I just got back to the machine, as I had friends over for the afternoon and evening. I've just now finished getting everything disconnected from my old machine and on to this one, and did the 10 updates and such.
I guess, in a little while I can do that.
But, guess what? Even though I'm using Safari beta 4.xx on the old machine, since its a beta, the migration assistant didn't bring it over!
I should have realized that. So my first benchmark is with Safari 3.2.1.
It's 1136.
This is with a dual 2.66 with 6Gb RAM on with Apple's 6 sticks. I intend to put in 16 GB from OWC within the week. I'm happy I didn't buy it sooner, as the price already dropped almost 40%!
While I go out now, I'll download 4, and try it with that shortly.
Interestingly, I read their notice about one window etc. For the first run, I had left the cursor where the click to start the test was, and got a score of 1843. I don't know if that was why, or if it's just a random difference.
But it's actually good that I had 3.2.1 on the machine at first, as we can now compare them directly. It's a big jump from 1136.
I don't know why that Windows machine is faster, though Macs have always seemed to be a bit slower on the net for some reason. Something in the OS.
Ok, I'm back again. With Safari 4 (5528.16) I got a score of 1851.
Interestingly, I read their notice about one window etc. For the first run, I had left the cursor where the click to start the test was, and got a score of 1843. I don't know if that was why, or if it's just a random difference.
But it's actually good that I had 3.2.1 on the machine at first, as we can now compare them directly. It's a big jump from 1136.
I don't know why that Windows machine is faster, though Macs have always seemed to be a bit slower on the net for some reason. Something in the OS.
Interesting results. I found that site today through one trustworthy site. Since it outputs results based on your system I feel it offers more real world results.
It's possible that the Cor i7 with Windows and Safari may have been "tuned" specifically for that test. Either way, your results do coincide with Apple's statements about the latest Safari JS engine being significantly faster.
PS: My score of ~1400 was with a late-2008 MacBook (2.4GHz, 3.75GB* RAM) with 10.6 (10a286) running Safari 4 Beta (6530.1).
* 0.25GHz are not showing up under SL.
Interesting results. I found that site today through one trustworthy site. Since it outputs results based on your system I feel it offers more real world results.
It's possible that the Cor i7 with Windows and Safari may have been "tuned" specifically for that test. Either way, your results do coincide with Apple's statements about the latest Safari JS engine being significantly faster.
I'm sorry I didn't get to the forum with my old dual G5 first. Right now, it's turned off, and disconnected. I even still have a dual mirror door, with 4 that I could try, just for the heck of it. Over the weekend, if I get time.
But I have noticed as has my family, on their machines, that 4 is most definitely faster.
GTX295
Ughhh!
EDIT:
Added this:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...s-losing-money
Now now, Mel... Charlie Demerjian at Inquirer is very vocally anti-Nvidia. The original poster asked what is better than the ATI 4870. The GTX295 is.
If by Ughhh you mean you're dissatisfied with Nvidia, in some way so am I. The huge, fat, hot die which they just got to 55nm only recently, GTX260 not flowing down to mainstream resulting in rebranded 9800s which are rebranded 8800s and the so-called "GT120" and "130" basically Nvidia 9500 and 9600s or so...
Very naughty of Nvidia.
On the other hand, the ATI RV770 is an excellent GPU that is kicking ass in the ATI 4870X2, 4870, 4850 and 4830. Excellent value for money and possibly more profitable than Nvidia's offerings around that price range.
However as the Inquirer points out as well, the ATI 4890 was supposed to be an RV790, the last at 55nm before ATI rolls out their 40nm dekstop parts. Instead, the ATI 4890 is seems, according to the Inquirer, an upclocked 4870.
ATI has announced 40nm mobile GPUs but as for desktop no real news yet.
Basically, both ATI and Nvidia need to continue to push volume through this low sales year, Nvidia's rebranding of their 9-series is a very intelligent (if devious) move and offering them at competitive price/performance points will help them sell. The Inquirer is right though, Nvidia's probably going to post several quarters of lousy numbers.
Nvidia has got about a year to (A) sort out their mess and get down to 40nm as fast and economical as possible. (B) seriously start rethinking their monolithic GPU design. In 2010, they could still be depending on GTX280~etc derivatives at 40nm and G92(9-series) at 40nm... But by 2010 ATI could be dominating them with *their* 40nm RV870. Whatever they did with the RV770, they got it right. Mobility wise though I wonder if you see more Nvidia GPUs in laptops than ATI. I don't have the numbers.
I'm sure I haven't got all the facts right but... I think it is an interesting time for GPU manufacturers. The demands on Intel are still big -- cheaper, cooler, quadcore in mobile. The demands on GPU manufacturers can be even bigger, especially if all this GPGPU talk really starts gets integrated into Windows 7 or even XP/Vista apps, and when we start to see "killer apps" from OpenCL in Snow Leopard.
Then again, AMD ain't doin too well so I wonder if that weighs down ATI, and Nvidia, well, we've talked about the challenges they face.
Both AMD-ATI and Nvidia have a tough one this year. In the meantime, I'm perhaps not buying a GPU this year yet... although the ATI 4850 is showing some real good price/performance right now. I'm avoiding the GTX260 or 280 (too long and too big), the 1GB GTS250 has shrunk somewhat but is a rebranded year-old 9800GTX+, and anything less than a 9800GT (GT130 or GTS240 or whatever the heck its called) won't fly at 1680x1050 and 1920x1200 resolutions.
So... Just gonna sit back and watch them ATI 4850 prices come a tumblin' down, maybe even the 4870 at 40nm (when it happens) will be at ATI 4850 prices in 3-5 months time.
I might go for a ATI 4850 512MB in my PC build to run at 1680x1050 20" LG/Samsung screen... Then maybe towards the end of the year see what the ATI 5000 series @ 40nm brings...
Then again, I might just save up. Darn' global recession.
Will I be able to add 2nd 4870:
- Proper slots available?
- Power requirements?
- Will Crossfire work?
- Will an Apple CTO 4870 and the second Windows 4870 work together under Crossfire?
- XP vs Vista 64 - one better than the other for Crossfire under BootCamp?
Is there a better solution?
Thanks for any advice - extensive Web searching hasn't yielded any answers.
You KNOW I'm not an apologist.
So, yes, Apple should have included it. I've been stating for several years now, since third parties aren't offering boards, that Apple should make some effort to give us a wider selection.
Even if it means that they have to PAY board makers to do so!"
Bless you my son. There is hope for you yet.
Lemon Bon Bon.
PS. It wasn't me who made the made your referral to the Apple Apologist Dept. It was in fact my PC owning friend that 'lurks' these boards...
One that Apple doesn't carry? Eg, A high end one?
eg. 295, x2, any forthcoming ATI 295 beater...?
Something with a mainstream amount of vram on it? eg 1-2 gigs of vram rather than a paltry 512 megs?
My PC owning friend has 2 gigs of vram on his ATI x2 card. It will handle the 'pro' resolutions much better than the single card 4870's 512 meg of vram.
It's just typical of Apple's 'We're pro, honest...' but penny pinching attitude. I walked into PC World the other day...and guess what? A 1 gig of VRAM card 4870 for about the same price as Apple's card. Apple have always been stingy with VRAM. Tight ass company. That's their problem.
Flawed.
Lemon Bon Bon.
While It would have been nice to see a new case, just because... the truth is, there's nothing wrong with the old one.
I'd have to agree with that. It is state of the art. Timeless. Sure a 'skin refresh' would have been nice with 'black accenting'. But really. It says it all that Apple didn't change it. It speaks for itself. Even against the best PC cases over five years after the fact. It looks superbly engineered.
I have to congratulate Melgross on his purchase. It sounds like you're going to be very happy with it.
Enjoy.
Lemon Bon Bon.
25x16 30" Crysis... boy you're talking SLI Nvidia GTX280's or Nvidia GTX295 or ATI 4870 X2 or Crossfire ATI 4870 or Quad SLI (SLI two GTX295's) and so on.
All of which it is dubious will run on your Mac Pro.
Only need for Windows is to play latest FPS like Crysis and Far Cry 2 -like to run 25x16 on 30" Cinema Display with settings as high as possible for visual realism.
Will I be able to add 2nd 4870:
- Proper slots available?
- Power requirements?
- Will Crossfire work?
- Will an Apple CTO 4870 and the second Windows 4870 work together under Crossfire?
- XP vs Vista 64 - one better than the other for Crossfire under BootCamp?
Is there a better solution?
Thanks for any advice - extensive Web searching hasn't yielded any answers.
I'd have to agree with that. It is state of the art. Timeless. Sure a 'skin refresh' would have been nice with 'black accenting'. But really. It says it all that Apple didn't change it. It speaks for itself. Even against the best PC cases over five years after the fact. It looks superbly engineered.
I have to congratulate Melgross on his purchase. It sounds like you're going to be very happy with it.
Enjoy.
Lemon Bon Bon.
It is still the best PC case out there. For five years now. The Asus Vento's came close but of a very, very different nature.
"What GPU did you want? I thought that the ATI one was the fastest one out right now (based on toms hardware reviews)."
One that Apple doesn't carry? Eg, A high end one?
eg. 295, x2, any forthcoming ATI 295 beater...?
Something with a mainstream amount of vram on it? eg 1-2 gigs of vram rather than a paltry 512 megs?
My PC owning friend has 2 gigs of vram on his ATI x2 card. It will handle the 'pro' resolutions much better than the single card 4870's 512 meg of vram.
It's just typical of Apple's 'We're pro, honest...' but penny pinching attitude. I walked into PC World the other day...and guess what? A 1 gig of VRAM card 4870 for about the same price as Apple's card. Apple have always been stingy with VRAM. Tight ass company. That's their problem.
Flawed.
Lemon Bon Bon.
HA HA yeah I forgot the ATI 4870 is only 512MB. That's a bit naughty of Apple to be their "highest end" offering. For the ATI 4850 you can get by with 512MB but the 4870 needs 1GB for really pushing pixels at 1920x1200 and of course 2560x1600...
But it is a beautifully engineered desktop, will run very fast, can have huge amounts of RAM... etc. It's for Mac Pro Apps and scientific stuff.
Not sure why they dropped a Quadro option though. Maybe the visualisation/ 3D/ engineering market really went PC big time.
Far Cry 2 for example, that uses a completely different engine and achieves some good visuals without totally raping framerates.
When Crysis came out, it made everybody start thinking, Oh Sh*t... what if in 1 or 2 years time all games will require this? My GPU will be very very obsolete very fast.
That XBox360 is looking better and better by the day.