Same thing happened when he was at the helm, around 2006, regarding iPod manufacture (sweatshop conditions, etc.) And it seems to have been even worse back then.
Some well maid points here. Glad to see that it's more civil, unlike some other articles I've read on this site, where people get into personal insults...
If MSFT and other Apple competitors don't jump on this kind of stories, then maybe it's because nobody's perfect, and stuff like that is not limited just to Apple? Either way, I'd like to see Apple get better at preventing stuff like this!
Behind every stock there are real lives, and it's hard for the shareholders to always have a spotless stock.
Globalization is a complicated topic too. I got Mixed Feelings on that topic too.
Whether it's Mexico, or Chinese "Worker Paradise", it's same old story - the bosses can chant Karl Marx slogans, like they do in Red China, and deny basic freedoms to their people! Then, ala the former USSR, they'll rename themselves into the Democrats, Patriots, or any other label, except Communist, and continue the abuses! Human Greed, and Power Lust transcend all ideologies! The rest is just a slick PR!
Blaming it all on the "Western" Exploitation (Apple or any other corporation), and not demand better rules from their own governments can be a cheap shot too.
The "West" alone can't fix all local problems, even if it has 100 Al Gores on it's side! There is a limit to everyone's influence!
All that is work in progress, which is never clean or fast for anyone!
Hope Apple is reading this, and gets better at ? preventing ? stuff like this! At the same time, can Apple or any company guarantee anyone a job for life? That would be nice, but the world is changing...
It's very, very simple. If cost was suddenly not an issue with customers, they would give their business to anyone. That never happens.
If it was really so simple, everyone in the world would satisfied with their lives. Fact is, it is rather complicated. Short term profit has become more important than than long term sustainability. Greed and selfishness are the foundations of modern corporate attitudes which has lead to all manner of evil. I'm not anti-business at all, in fact I own a couple, and I do understand the necessity to make a profit, but I prefer to do business with like minded people. Not just anyone can be a customer of mine.
You don't manufacture in America anymore (on the flipside of the argument) because paying unionized workers is getting to be too expensive (and has been too expensive for years.) Everyone wants benefits, coverage for everything, etc., better hours, better pay. You name it. Unions are fine, but the attitude of the American worker in this climate of I-want-it-now purchases, credit abuse, and an unwillngness to wait until one can afford said luxury item has all contributed to shipping jobs overseas.
It's almost unheard of to drive an older car, or not have that top-end LCD or Plasma in the superstore Window. Coddling and more-pay-for-less-effort is the game in North America. Just look at what Auto Workers' Unions have done to the industry.
In Japan, for instance, it's all about a rice-bowl. And most of them have learned to live with it, accept it, and value other things besides collecting as many material things as possible. You get twice, three times the productivity with a fraction of the expectation. And they seem to actually give a damn about what they produce. And they're by far the healthiest nation on the planet, to boot. And for wahtever reasons, Asian cultures in general are far better at saving than their North American counterparts. The average Canadian and American family has virtually no savings, most of their lives are leased and mortgaged out. The debt collection business in North America is booming, and has been for some time now. I've been a part of that biz for years, and there's no shortage of work in that area.
There is this colossal sense of entitlement that seems to have pervaded the American workforce over the last 25 years: "i want benefits, I want dental, I want maternity leave, personal days, I want x amount of vacation hours, I want etc., etc!!"
Now we're all paying for it.
The problem really comes down to North American values and mentality when it comes to work and posessions. They stink.
china first killed whole Usa industries by subsidizing there plants
while we slept or even helped them
it's not just labor costs
its worker rights we have in the Usa that the chinese don't and never will have
These poor workers stole our jobs .
It's not right to abuse them .. But how can they compete without cheating ??
we should make the apple stuff here in the Usa
It started with "Most Favored Nation" trading status given to China back in the 70's and continued through the Bush Administration. This despite the blatant failure of the Chinese government to enforce copyright and patin protections as well as their human rights abuses, currency manipulation, and closed markets.
The problem for China, and they are paying for it now, is that when the US consumer market dwindles they do not have enough of a native consumer market to keep their economy stabilized. To solve this they are going to have to make more of an effort to increase their middle class, which means increasing pay. This in turn means losing jobs to other countries as their labor costs rise.
I don't disagree with your premise at all but this statement might need a citation of some sort to be accepted.
Just research the Japanese diet (most of it still isn't Westernized) and the cancer rates in Japan. In Okinawa, for example, there is no such thing as a mammogram. Hardly any cancer.
The traditional Japanese kitchen is unsurpassed in terms of the healthful foods used.
Barring certain cultures and tribes in remote areas, the Japanese are the longest-lived industrialized people on Earth.
Just research the Japanese diet (most of it still isn't Westernized) and the cancer rates in Japan. In Okinawa, for example, there is no such thing as a mammogram. Hardly any cancer.
The traditional Japaenese kitchen is unsurpassed in terms of the healthful foods used.
Barring certin cultures and tribes in remote areas, the Japanese are the longest-lived people on Earth.
They sell a lot of cigarettes in Japan. Tribes in remote area don't usually have a very long life expectancy.
About 51% of men smoke in Japan - this figure has dropped from the 1980s, but it is still very high for a developed nation.
Prevalence of smoking among women, once considered almost taboo, has risen dramatically in the last decade to nearly 10%.
Japan's Finance Ministry is a major shareholder in Japan Tobacco, a multinational.
A survey in the early 1990s found that 44% of male physicians smoke in Japan.
With 500,000 cigarette vending machines, the young can easily buy cigarettes.
It's estimated that about one in eight deaths is due to smoking, (about 100,000 deaths a year). Smoking may also contribute to four of the five leading causes of death.
Lung cancer is the leading cancer, with more than 50,000 deaths a year.
More Japanese men die of lung cancer than suicide. The rate of lung cancer deaths is 46 per 100,000 people while the suicide rate is 30 per 100,000.
Japan has some of the weakest anti-tobacco laws for a developed nation, with few smoke-free public areas.
They sell a lot of cigarettes in Japan. Tribes in remote area don't usually have a very long life expectancy.
I'm really not interested in debating the issue. See for yourself if you're interested.
The Japanese diet is model for the world. Unfortunately, McDonalds and American values about food have penetrated even there, but not to the degree that it has elsewhere.
About 51% of men smoke in Japan - this figure has dropped from the 1980s, but it is still very high for a developed nation.
Prevalence of smoking among women, once considered almost taboo, has risen dramatically in the last decade to nearly 10%.
Japan's Finance Ministry is a major shareholder in Japan Tobacco, a multinational.
A survey in the early 1990s found that 44% of male physicians smoke in Japan.
With 500,000 cigarette vending machines, the young can easily buy cigarettes.
It's estimated that about one in eight deaths is due to smoking, (about 100,000 deaths a year). Smoking may also contribute to four of the five leading causes of death.
Lung cancer is the leading cancer, with more than 50,000 deaths a year.
More Japanese men die of lung cancer than suicide. The rate of lung cancer deaths is 46 per 100,000 people while the suicide rate is 30 per 100,000.
Japan has some of the weakest anti-tobacco laws for a developed nation, with few smoke-free public areas.
So what?
And how does that impact average life expectancy for men and women in Japan compared to other countries?
And in North America the average middle-class family gorges on red meat and fast food. Especially lower income households.
I'm really not interested in debating the issue. See for yourself if you're interested.
The Japanese diet is model for the world. Unfortunately, McDonalds and American values about food have penetrated even there, but not to the degree that it has elsewhere.
Ok let's not debate.
I dislike Japanese food and they are rated 3rd in life expectancy
Why do you think Apple is sitting on a pile of money? California development costs are high, particularly the software, and hardware design. Ever check the price of realestate in Cupertino? Marketing cost are high. Like those cutesy commercials ? So how do they make it up? Build in China. Minimize shipping cost with smaller," environmentally friendly" packaging that cuts cost, and sounds good on the "one more thing speech". It Keeps N2N moving, ( while billing back to the owner for use, I imagine)
Do you get it? It has to be made up somewhere. China is where.
Brilliant Really.
And, as Steve would say....
One more thing....
I used to work in electronic factory automation. Do you think Toshiba has humans building sub miniature Hard Drives for ipods? No. It could be done here. But it is cheaper to have lots of cheap overworked hands then to buy the gear and keep it running.
It sounds like the supplier really pushed the workers to the edge. In Taiwan and China, workers and engineers in the electronic industry work AT LEAST 60 hrs per week, which is considered perfectly normal over there. Many of them are even pushed to 70 to 80 hrs a week without a single complain, even if the overtime fee is minimal.
Even as the manufacturing cost has been getting lower, Apple has not passed it onto the consumers. What have we got? Plastic Enclosures that won't last... TN Screen... Lower Reliability... and bunch of disappointed old Mac fans.
If it was really so simple, everyone in the world would satisfied with their lives. Fact is, it is rather complicated. Short term profit has become more important than than long term sustainability. Greed and selfishness are the foundations of modern corporate attitudes which has lead to all manner of evil. I'm not anti-business at all, in fact I own a couple, and I do understand the necessity to make a profit, but I prefer to do business with like minded people. Not just anyone can be a customer of mine.
Apple is not to blame but relying on underpaid workers is symptomatic of the world capitalism has created, and it is shameful. In order to compete with Asia we will not be able to pay our workers a decent living wage which all workers deserve, whichever part of the world they live. There is no way 'business' can self regulate to ensure workers rights are honored. We all expect and demand cheap goods, and as such we are complicit. I am not sure how we can get to a point where we accept the true cost of what we want and are prepared to pay for it, but I do know that something must be done.
You don't manufacture in America anymore (on the flipside of the argument) because paying unionized workers is getting to be too expensive (and has been too expensive for years.) Everyone wants benefits, coverage for everything, etc., better hours, better pay. You name it. Unions are fine, but the attitude of the American worker in this climate of I-want-it-now purchases, credit abuse, and an unwillngness to wait until one can afford said luxury item has all contributed to shipping jobs overseas.
It's almost unheard of to drive an older car, or not have that top-end LCD or Plasma in the superstore Window. Coddling and more-pay-for-less-effort is the game in North America. Just look at what Auto Workers' Unions have done to the industry.
In Japan, for instance, it's all about a rice-bowl. And most of them have learned to live with it, accept it, and value other things besides collecting as many material things as possible. You get twice, three times the productivity with a fraction of the expectation. And they seem to actually give a damn about what they produce. And they're by far the healthiest nation on the planet, to boot. And for wahtever reasons, Asian cultures in general are far better at saving than their North American counterparts. The average Canadian and American family has virtually no savings, most of their lives are leased and mortgaged out. The debt collection business in North America is booming, and has been for some time now. I've been a part of that biz for years, and there's no shortage of work in that area.
There is this colossal sense of entitlement that seems to have pervaded the American workforce over the last 25 years: "i want benefits, I want dental, I want maternity leave, personal days, I want x amount of vacation hours, I want etc., etc!!"
Now we're all paying for it.
The problem really comes down to North American values and mentality when it comes to work and posessions. They stink.
Comments
Look what happens when Steve's gone...
Same thing happened when he was at the helm, around 2006, regarding iPod manufacture (sweatshop conditions, etc.) And it seems to have been even worse back then.
If MSFT and other Apple competitors don't jump on this kind of stories, then maybe it's because nobody's perfect, and stuff like that is not limited just to Apple? Either way, I'd like to see Apple get better at preventing stuff like this!
Behind every stock there are real lives, and it's hard for the shareholders to always have a spotless stock.
Globalization is a complicated topic too. I got Mixed Feelings on that topic too.
Whether it's Mexico, or Chinese "Worker Paradise", it's same old story - the bosses can chant Karl Marx slogans, like they do in Red China, and deny basic freedoms to their people! Then, ala the former USSR, they'll rename themselves into the Democrats, Patriots, or any other label, except Communist, and continue the abuses! Human Greed, and Power Lust transcend all ideologies! The rest is just a slick PR!
Blaming it all on the "Western" Exploitation (Apple or any other corporation), and not demand better rules from their own governments can be a cheap shot too.
The "West" alone can't fix all local problems, even if it has 100 Al Gores on it's side
All that is work in progress, which is never clean or fast for anyone!
Hope Apple is reading this, and gets better at ? preventing ? stuff like this! At the same time, can Apple or any company guarantee anyone a job for life? That would be nice, but the world is changing...
It's very, very simple. If cost was suddenly not an issue with customers, they would give their business to anyone. That never happens.
If it was really so simple, everyone in the world would satisfied with their lives. Fact is, it is rather complicated. Short term profit has become more important than than long term sustainability. Greed and selfishness are the foundations of modern corporate attitudes which has lead to all manner of evil. I'm not anti-business at all, in fact I own a couple, and I do understand the necessity to make a profit, but I prefer to do business with like minded people. Not just anyone can be a customer of mine.
It's almost unheard of to drive an older car, or not have that top-end LCD or Plasma in the superstore Window. Coddling and more-pay-for-less-effort is the game in North America. Just look at what Auto Workers' Unions have done to the industry.
In Japan, for instance, it's all about a rice-bowl. And most of them have learned to live with it, accept it, and value other things besides collecting as many material things as possible. You get twice, three times the productivity with a fraction of the expectation. And they seem to actually give a damn about what they produce. And they're by far the healthiest nation on the planet, to boot. And for wahtever reasons, Asian cultures in general are far better at saving than their North American counterparts. The average Canadian and American family has virtually no savings, most of their lives are leased and mortgaged out. The debt collection business in North America is booming, and has been for some time now. I've been a part of that biz for years, and there's no shortage of work in that area.
There is this colossal sense of entitlement that seems to have pervaded the American workforce over the last 25 years: "i want benefits, I want dental, I want maternity leave, personal days, I want x amount of vacation hours, I want etc., etc!!"
Now we're all paying for it.
The problem really comes down to North American values and mentality when it comes to work and posessions. They stink.
it's not so simple as you say
yet it is simple
is it not ?
china first killed whole Usa industries by subsidizing there plants
while we slept or even helped them
it's not just labor costs
its worker rights we have in the Usa that the chinese don't and never will have
These poor workers stole our jobs .
It's not right to abuse them .. But how can they compete without cheating ??
we should make the apple stuff here in the Usa
It started with "Most Favored Nation" trading status given to China back in the 70's and continued through the Bush Administration. This despite the blatant failure of the Chinese government to enforce copyright and patin protections as well as their human rights abuses, currency manipulation, and closed markets.
The problem for China, and they are paying for it now, is that when the US consumer market dwindles they do not have enough of a native consumer market to keep their economy stabilized. To solve this they are going to have to make more of an effort to increase their middle class, which means increasing pay. This in turn means losing jobs to other countries as their labor costs rise.
[Japanese]... And they're by far the healthiest nation on the planet, to boot.
I don't disagree with your premise at all but this statement might need a citation of some sort to be accepted.
Just research the Japanese diet (most of it still isn't Westernized) and the cancer rates in Japan. In Okinawa, for example, there is no such thing as a mammogram. Hardly any cancer.
The traditional Japanese kitchen is unsurpassed in terms of the healthful foods used.
Barring certain cultures and tribes in remote areas, the Japanese are the longest-lived industrialized people on Earth.
I ... but they still have a choice...
They don't have a choice! Starving is not a choice.
Just research the Japanese diet (most of it still isn't Westernized) and the cancer rates in Japan. In Okinawa, for example, there is no such thing as a mammogram. Hardly any cancer.
The traditional Japaenese kitchen is unsurpassed in terms of the healthful foods used.
Barring certin cultures and tribes in remote areas, the Japanese are the longest-lived people on Earth.
They sell a lot of cigarettes in Japan. Tribes in remote area don't usually have a very long life expectancy.
From WHO
http://www.wpro.who.int/media_centre...s_20020528.htm
About 51% of men smoke in Japan - this figure has dropped from the 1980s, but it is still very high for a developed nation.
Prevalence of smoking among women, once considered almost taboo, has risen dramatically in the last decade to nearly 10%.
Japan's Finance Ministry is a major shareholder in Japan Tobacco, a multinational.
A survey in the early 1990s found that 44% of male physicians smoke in Japan.
With 500,000 cigarette vending machines, the young can easily buy cigarettes.
It's estimated that about one in eight deaths is due to smoking, (about 100,000 deaths a year). Smoking may also contribute to four of the five leading causes of death.
Lung cancer is the leading cancer, with more than 50,000 deaths a year.
More Japanese men die of lung cancer than suicide. The rate of lung cancer deaths is 46 per 100,000 people while the suicide rate is 30 per 100,000.
Japan has some of the weakest anti-tobacco laws for a developed nation, with few smoke-free public areas.
They sell a lot of cigarettes in Japan. Tribes in remote area don't usually have a very long life expectancy.
I'm really not interested in debating the issue. See for yourself if you're interested.
The Japanese diet is model for the world. Unfortunately, McDonalds and American values about food have penetrated even there, but not to the degree that it has elsewhere.
They don't have a choice! Starving is not a choice.
But staying with that employer is! Can't find better work? Educate/Better yourself to allow yourself better opportunities!
They sell a lot of cigarettes in Japan. Tribes in remote area don't usually have a very long life expectancy.
From WHO
http://www.wpro.who.int/media_centre...s_20020528.htm
About 51% of men smoke in Japan - this figure has dropped from the 1980s, but it is still very high for a developed nation.
Prevalence of smoking among women, once considered almost taboo, has risen dramatically in the last decade to nearly 10%.
Japan's Finance Ministry is a major shareholder in Japan Tobacco, a multinational.
A survey in the early 1990s found that 44% of male physicians smoke in Japan.
With 500,000 cigarette vending machines, the young can easily buy cigarettes.
It's estimated that about one in eight deaths is due to smoking, (about 100,000 deaths a year). Smoking may also contribute to four of the five leading causes of death.
Lung cancer is the leading cancer, with more than 50,000 deaths a year.
More Japanese men die of lung cancer than suicide. The rate of lung cancer deaths is 46 per 100,000 people while the suicide rate is 30 per 100,000.
Japan has some of the weakest anti-tobacco laws for a developed nation, with few smoke-free public areas.
So what?
And how does that impact average life expectancy for men and women in Japan compared to other countries?
And in North America the average middle-class family gorges on red meat and fast food. Especially lower income households.
I'm really not interested in debating the issue. See for yourself if you're interested.
The Japanese diet is model for the world. Unfortunately, McDonalds and American values about food have penetrated even there, but not to the degree that it has elsewhere.
Ok let's not debate.
I dislike Japanese food and they are rated 3rd in life expectancy
Do you get it? It has to be made up somewhere. China is where.
Brilliant Really.
And, as Steve would say....
One more thing....
I used to work in electronic factory automation. Do you think Toshiba has humans building sub miniature Hard Drives for ipods? No. It could be done here. But it is cheaper to have lots of cheap overworked hands then to buy the gear and keep it running.
Like I said: Brilliant.
And you get to pay for it.
Even as the manufacturing cost has been getting lower, Apple has not passed it onto the consumers. What have we got? Plastic Enclosures that won't last... TN Screen... Lower Reliability... and bunch of disappointed old Mac fans.
It's been coming for quite some time, across multiple administrations.
After WWII America was the the worlds economy. We elevated our standard of living to include nearly
90% of the worlds resources. Everyone elses economy depended mostly on ours.
Now the world's playing field is being leveled, we are going down to match.
This deflation we are in now was attempted to be defeated by the drastic lowering of the prime rate,
caused the real estate bubble, then of course the sub-prime socialization attempt by Congress,
finally the post real estate bubble recession and the mass foreclosures and bank failures, with the
world being bilked with combined BBB and AAA rated securities called CDO's that were rated AAA
instead of something more realistic to match their contents. Thus world recession.
So deflation came anyway. but at least they tried.
http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/I...Inflation.aspx
In my opinion the middle class is going to get wiped out, it will just be the rich and the poor working for them.
Get further depressed here.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3405/...9e0bee32_o.jpg
and here
http://money.cnn.com/news/storysuppl...ures/index.htm
So this is a GLOBAL effect, Americans are paying too much for their houses they owe more than it's
worth. People are saving money because things are getting worse. People are saving money
because tomorrow some things will get cheaper and necessities will get more expensive.
It's deflation. Cash is king!
Ok let's not debate.
I dislike Japanese food and they are rated 3rd in life expectancy
Here's the most recent fromt the WHO. Japan and San Marino are tops.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...8xWBwD98AOR2O5
http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa042000b.htm
Japan ranks near the highest. I guuss you were looking at a similar list.
http://web-japan.org/trends/lifestyle/lif031121.html
And again.
I don't pull random things out of the air around here.
If it was really so simple, everyone in the world would satisfied with their lives. Fact is, it is rather complicated. Short term profit has become more important than than long term sustainability. Greed and selfishness are the foundations of modern corporate attitudes which has lead to all manner of evil. I'm not anti-business at all, in fact I own a couple, and I do understand the necessity to make a profit, but I prefer to do business with like minded people. Not just anyone can be a customer of mine.
Apple is not to blame but relying on underpaid workers is symptomatic of the world capitalism has created, and it is shameful. In order to compete with Asia we will not be able to pay our workers a decent living wage which all workers deserve, whichever part of the world they live. There is no way 'business' can self regulate to ensure workers rights are honored. We all expect and demand cheap goods, and as such we are complicit. I am not sure how we can get to a point where we accept the true cost of what we want and are prepared to pay for it, but I do know that something must be done.
In my opinion, globalization has caused the severe deflation we are seeing in the United States.
It's been coming for quite some time, across multiple administrations.....
What's with the double spacing? Why don't you CAPITALIZE as well? Then we'll REALLY TAKE NOTICE
You don't manufacture in America anymore (on the flipside of the argument) because paying unionized workers is getting to be too expensive (and has been too expensive for years.) Everyone wants benefits, coverage for everything, etc., better hours, better pay. You name it. Unions are fine, but the attitude of the American worker in this climate of I-want-it-now purchases, credit abuse, and an unwillngness to wait until one can afford said luxury item has all contributed to shipping jobs overseas.
It's almost unheard of to drive an older car, or not have that top-end LCD or Plasma in the superstore Window. Coddling and more-pay-for-less-effort is the game in North America. Just look at what Auto Workers' Unions have done to the industry.
In Japan, for instance, it's all about a rice-bowl. And most of them have learned to live with it, accept it, and value other things besides collecting as many material things as possible. You get twice, three times the productivity with a fraction of the expectation. And they seem to actually give a damn about what they produce. And they're by far the healthiest nation on the planet, to boot. And for wahtever reasons, Asian cultures in general are far better at saving than their North American counterparts. The average Canadian and American family has virtually no savings, most of their lives are leased and mortgaged out. The debt collection business in North America is booming, and has been for some time now. I've been a part of that biz for years, and there's no shortage of work in that area.
There is this colossal sense of entitlement that seems to have pervaded the American workforce over the last 25 years: "i want benefits, I want dental, I want maternity leave, personal days, I want x amount of vacation hours, I want etc., etc!!"
Now we're all paying for it.
The problem really comes down to North American values and mentality when it comes to work and posessions. They stink.
The PS3 is made in china.