This makes me glad I got an early 2008 matte mbp, just before apple refreshed the notebook line. With it I've outlived this whole glossy/antiglare + $50 saga. Hopefully in 2-3 years time the options will be better
Or someone pompously commenting about someone bitching about someone bitching. He was asking a valid question and the fanboy express jumped down his throat because you people have nothing but blind allegiance for Apple. The point is, matte should have been there all along. Period. To charge $50 for that option now is nickel and diming Apples loyal customers, professionals that prefer matte. Don't give me any shit about production costs, they have plenty of money and all the resources already in place.
Fanboy expesss my ass! I guess I could call you a troll then! I just love who the fanboy term always gets thrown around here.
In case you forget, Apple is a company. The purpose of a company is to make money. If something costs extra money to engineer, inventory stock, etc, any company is going to charge money for something like that. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars a company has, they aren't going to sell things that aren't going to make them money. Apple can do the things its doing today because of the cash pile it has. If it were scrapping money from the bottom of the barrel like some tech companies are starting to do, it wouldn't be able to do the things it does, keep the people it has, etc.
Its just the people who think Apple should provide them with whatever they want at a very, very low price is what bothers me. If thats called fanboy'ism...then I guess I'm guilty!
I think there's a fallacy in this line of reasoning, I'm just not sure which one. It might be a post hoc fallacy, or maybe some variant of affirming the consequent. I think I might need more coffee.
What would be the fallacy? People buy what they want...Apple isn't forcing people to buy laptops.
Good luck with that! Most people (myself included) think the current keyboard action is the best they have ever used. I hate typing in an old style keyboard after being spoiled by the new design.
Agree 100%. The "new" keyboard is awesome. The only mistake was lopping off the numeric keypad, that was a DUMB move. Mine is now a year and a half old and has a lot of mileage on it, and still performs great. They just need a Bluetooth version with numeric keypad, and should either switch to or offer black keys.
Fanboy expesss my ass! I guess I could call you a troll then! I just love who the fanboy term always gets thrown around here.
In case you forget, Apple is a company. The purpose of a company is to make money. If something costs extra money to engineer, inventory stock, etc, any company is going to charge money for something like that. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars a company has, they aren't going to sell things that aren't going to make them money. Apple can do the things its doing today because of the cash pile it has. If it were scrapping money from the bottom of the barrel like some tech companies are starting to do, it wouldn't be able to do the things it does, keep the people it has, etc.
Its just the people who think Apple should provide them with whatever they want at a very, very low price is what bothers me. If thats called fanboy'ism...then I guess I'm guilty!
The fact that you would label me as a troll is something you should think about. Look man, I'm not looking for an argument here but I don't need a lecture on business and economics. I'm well aware of Apple's business model, that's the point. I'm not self entitled type nor do I expect Apple to be giving anything away, I simply don't agree with the Apple tax sometimes.
I think there's a fallacy in this line of reasoning, I'm just not sure which one. It might be a post hoc fallacy, or maybe some variant of affirming the consequent. I think I might need more coffee.
There is nothing wrong with his logic. Apple is offering an option for an additional cost. It?s not the default configuration, any cost difference would be negligible if the matte and glossy sold in equal numbers but they don?t, and the most popular, highest volume selling notebook from notebook doesn?t even come with a matte option. All of that screams that it?s not a popular as glossy. I certainly prefer glossy but I?m glad the option is available for those that need/want it and for those that truly do prefer it I don?t think the extra cost should be a deal breaker with all things considered.
Not to brag. but myself and some others have predicted that this would happen. Apple has realzed that more $$ can be gained by including matte than not.
The 17" was not just an experiment as a few deluded fanboyz had stated- Apple headed the word of professionals and knew it had to return not just there but everywhere.
I can't wait until it finally returns to the iMac where it is needed the most. The 24" high- glossy screen is just an abomination- especially when it is turned off.
In case you forget, Apple is a company. The purpose of a company is to make money. If something costs extra money to engineer, inventory stock, etc, any company is going to charge money for something like that. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars a company has, they aren't going to sell things that aren't going to make them money. Apple can do the things its doing today because of the cash pile it has. If it were scrapping money from the bottom of the barrel like some tech companies are starting to do, it wouldn't be able to do the things it does, keep the people it has, etc.
I completely agree with you, but isn't there a tiny niggling part of you that wonders, very occasionally, whether Apple makes decisions like this because the company likes its users to experience things in a particular way? In a way that they think is the right way, not necessarily the way people actually do things.
Now often this works well, it's part of the Mac experience we all love, and a growing part of the iPhone experience. But every now and again, it's a bad call. Matte screens, Firewire on MacBooks etc are examples of this. I just wonder sometimes.
Fanboy expesss my ass! I guess I could call you a troll then! I just love who the fanboy term always gets thrown around here.
In case you forget, Apple is a company. The purpose of a company is to make money. If something costs extra money to engineer, inventory stock, etc, any company is going to charge money for something like that. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars a company has, they aren't going to sell things that aren't going to make them money. Apple can do the things its doing today because of the cash pile it has. If it were scrapping money from the bottom of the barrel like some tech companies are starting to do, it wouldn't be able to do the things it does, keep the people it has, etc.
Its just the people who think Apple should provide them with whatever they want at a very, very low price is what bothers me. If thats called fanboy'ism...then I guess I'm guilty!
A fanboy is a fanboy. If you back up Apple for not including matte screens because Apple told you they should be dropped and you fell for it, then you need to carry that title. It's all very simple.
Think about it. Apple is now selling more laptops than it's ever sold in it's history. Would that be true if most people were against a glossy only option. The matte people are a vocal minority.
Now how would you know whether Apple would be selling even more if matte were offered currently? Apparently Apple has done the math and realizes that there is more to be made by those who don't want the high gloss mess, myself included.
The return of Firewire AND Matte. Wow. Is this because of Jobs or because he hasn't been around much till recently (is he still working from home some days?)...
Maybe it will come out he deleted them because his illness or meds were affecting his decision making? Now he sees the light after his leave of absence. Don't forget blu-ray (the bag of hurt) is also on the horizon. All that is left is for him to replace the racoon fugly iMac design with the mismatched mouse.
The objects are not in the exact same place, the camera is not in the same positions, the lighting in the background varies, etc.
Of course the glossy will reflect more than the matte.
But the matte has drawbacks as well. In most cases, we don't work on applications or documents most of the time with black or dark backgrounds. Pure white backgrounds as one uses in word processing, vs the extreme to black, doesn't cause reflection or glare.
Using the MacBook Pro (glossy) on the boat is a hell of a lot better than our mattes.
By the way, matte does reflect. We just tested the Museum Glass and it reflects as well. Everything does in the right position. As everything doesn't in the right position.
Bottom line. As I suggested, take them both out into the daylight before you make a decision. Many have changed their minds, i.e., "the gloss doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would," "The gloss is so much more vibrant, it works better for me," to "I like the matte better because I don't get any glare."
But to unilaterally hate glossy because of what others have said and not make the final judgement yourself under your ideal conditions is ludicrous.
Everybody has the choice now, why not let them decide for themselves?
Speak for yourself. Print, web, multimedia, video, 3D, architects, etc. rarely work in an all white word document type scenario. Notice the color of this web page.
A matte monitor is not the same as museum glass. I didn't catch it from the article, but I don't believe Apple is going to put anti-glare museum glass in front of a matte LCD, but I could be wrong.
Good news for me, because I work a lot on dark backgrounds, and no amount of backlighting can cut through reflections on black. Deep glassy blacks are neither deep nor black unless your surroundings are dim.
Bad news for me, because I was convinced the matte display was gone for a couple years, so I just bought a new battery and upgraded the OS on my Oct 2006 MBP.
Good news for me, because by the time I need a new computer, Apple might switch back to glossy from glassy, which would be the best of both worlds.
Bad news for me, because this laptop is slowly falling apart
... with a standard keyboard that has the numeric keypad hacked off (yes, I am aware you can get the keypad for free as an optional choice, but only via Apple's store).
Not so - many of the major online stores offer this choice too. As an example I just bought a 3.06 imac with the Radeon 4850 and the numeric keyboard from Powermax. It was configured just as I wanted and I had the choice of several stores to buy from, not just Apple.
Think about it. Apple is now selling more laptops than it's ever sold in it's history. Would that be true if most people were against a glossy only option. The matte people are a vocal minority.
It could be that the sales numbers do reflect at least a non-aversion to glossy screens. On the other hand, It could be that most people are against glossy screens, but that factor doesn't outweigh the other advantages they see in an Apple laptop. I was, rather obliquely, pointing out that Apple's sales numbers for laptops could be dependent on factors that have little or nothing to do with glossy vs. matte screens, so, without knowing exactly what is driving sales, it's not valid to make points about glossy vs. matte screens based on the sales numbers.
Personally, I'm somewhat ambivalent on the glossy vs. matte issue, and I wouldn't make a buy/don't buy decision based solely, nor even primarily, on that factor.
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Yes, that's exactly my point!
Or someone pompously commenting about someone bitching about someone bitching. He was asking a valid question and the fanboy express jumped down his throat because you people have nothing but blind allegiance for Apple. The point is, matte should have been there all along. Period. To charge $50 for that option now is nickel and diming Apples loyal customers, professionals that prefer matte. Don't give me any shit about production costs, they have plenty of money and all the resources already in place.
Fanboy expesss my ass! I guess I could call you a troll then! I just love who the fanboy term always gets thrown around here.
In case you forget, Apple is a company. The purpose of a company is to make money. If something costs extra money to engineer, inventory stock, etc, any company is going to charge money for something like that. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars a company has, they aren't going to sell things that aren't going to make them money. Apple can do the things its doing today because of the cash pile it has. If it were scrapping money from the bottom of the barrel like some tech companies are starting to do, it wouldn't be able to do the things it does, keep the people it has, etc.
Its just the people who think Apple should provide them with whatever they want at a very, very low price is what bothers me. If thats called fanboy'ism...then I guess I'm guilty!
I think there's a fallacy in this line of reasoning, I'm just not sure which one. It might be a post hoc fallacy, or maybe some variant of affirming the consequent. I think I might need more coffee.
What would be the fallacy? People buy what they want...Apple isn't forcing people to buy laptops.
Good luck with that! Most people (myself included) think the current keyboard action is the best they have ever used. I hate typing in an old style keyboard after being spoiled by the new design.
Agree 100%. The "new" keyboard is awesome. The only mistake was lopping off the numeric keypad, that was a DUMB move. Mine is now a year and a half old and has a lot of mileage on it, and still performs great. They just need a Bluetooth version with numeric keypad, and should either switch to or offer black keys.
Fanboy expesss my ass! I guess I could call you a troll then! I just love who the fanboy term always gets thrown around here.
In case you forget, Apple is a company. The purpose of a company is to make money. If something costs extra money to engineer, inventory stock, etc, any company is going to charge money for something like that. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars a company has, they aren't going to sell things that aren't going to make them money. Apple can do the things its doing today because of the cash pile it has. If it were scrapping money from the bottom of the barrel like some tech companies are starting to do, it wouldn't be able to do the things it does, keep the people it has, etc.
Its just the people who think Apple should provide them with whatever they want at a very, very low price is what bothers me. If thats called fanboy'ism...then I guess I'm guilty!
The fact that you would label me as a troll is something you should think about. Look man, I'm not looking for an argument here but I don't need a lecture on business and economics. I'm well aware of Apple's business model, that's the point. I'm not self entitled type nor do I expect Apple to be giving anything away, I simply don't agree with the Apple tax sometimes.
What would be the fallacy? People buy what they want...Apple isn't forcing people to buy laptops.
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/post-hoc/
I think there's a fallacy in this line of reasoning, I'm just not sure which one. It might be a post hoc fallacy, or maybe some variant of affirming the consequent. I think I might need more coffee.
There is nothing wrong with his logic. Apple is offering an option for an additional cost. It?s not the default configuration, any cost difference would be negligible if the matte and glossy sold in equal numbers but they don?t, and the most popular, highest volume selling notebook from notebook doesn?t even come with a matte option. All of that screams that it?s not a popular as glossy. I certainly prefer glossy but I?m glad the option is available for those that need/want it and for those that truly do prefer it I don?t think the extra cost should be a deal breaker with all things considered.
The 17" was not just an experiment as a few deluded fanboyz had stated- Apple headed the word of professionals and knew it had to return not just there but everywhere.
I can't wait until it finally returns to the iMac where it is needed the most. The 24" high- glossy screen is just an abomination- especially when it is turned off.
Thank you, thank you.
In case you forget, Apple is a company. The purpose of a company is to make money. If something costs extra money to engineer, inventory stock, etc, any company is going to charge money for something like that. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars a company has, they aren't going to sell things that aren't going to make them money. Apple can do the things its doing today because of the cash pile it has. If it were scrapping money from the bottom of the barrel like some tech companies are starting to do, it wouldn't be able to do the things it does, keep the people it has, etc.
I completely agree with you, but isn't there a tiny niggling part of you that wonders, very occasionally, whether Apple makes decisions like this because the company likes its users to experience things in a particular way? In a way that they think is the right way, not necessarily the way people actually do things.
Now often this works well, it's part of the Mac experience we all love, and a growing part of the iPhone experience. But every now and again, it's a bad call. Matte screens, Firewire on MacBooks etc are examples of this. I just wonder sometimes.
Fanboy expesss my ass! I guess I could call you a troll then! I just love who the fanboy term always gets thrown around here.
In case you forget, Apple is a company. The purpose of a company is to make money. If something costs extra money to engineer, inventory stock, etc, any company is going to charge money for something like that. It doesn't matter how many billions of dollars a company has, they aren't going to sell things that aren't going to make them money. Apple can do the things its doing today because of the cash pile it has. If it were scrapping money from the bottom of the barrel like some tech companies are starting to do, it wouldn't be able to do the things it does, keep the people it has, etc.
Its just the people who think Apple should provide them with whatever they want at a very, very low price is what bothers me. If thats called fanboy'ism...then I guess I'm guilty!
A fanboy is a fanboy. If you back up Apple for not including matte screens because Apple told you they should be dropped and you fell for it, then you need to carry that title. It's all very simple.
Think about it. Apple is now selling more laptops than it's ever sold in it's history. Would that be true if most people were against a glossy only option. The matte people are a vocal minority.
Now how would you know whether Apple would be selling even more if matte were offered currently? Apparently Apple has done the math and realizes that there is more to be made by those who don't want the high gloss mess, myself included.
The return of Firewire AND Matte. Wow. Is this because of Jobs or because he hasn't been around much till recently (is he still working from home some days?)...
Maybe it will come out he deleted them because his illness or meds were affecting his decision making? Now he sees the light after his leave of absence. Don't forget blu-ray (the bag of hurt) is also on the horizon. All that is left is for him to replace the racoon fugly iMac design with the mismatched mouse.
The objects are not in the exact same place, the camera is not in the same positions, the lighting in the background varies, etc.
Of course the glossy will reflect more than the matte.
But the matte has drawbacks as well. In most cases, we don't work on applications or documents most of the time with black or dark backgrounds. Pure white backgrounds as one uses in word processing, vs the extreme to black, doesn't cause reflection or glare.
Using the MacBook Pro (glossy) on the boat is a hell of a lot better than our mattes.
By the way, matte does reflect. We just tested the Museum Glass and it reflects as well. Everything does in the right position. As everything doesn't in the right position.
Bottom line. As I suggested, take them both out into the daylight before you make a decision. Many have changed their minds, i.e., "the gloss doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would," "The gloss is so much more vibrant, it works better for me," to "I like the matte better because I don't get any glare."
But to unilaterally hate glossy because of what others have said and not make the final judgement yourself under your ideal conditions is ludicrous.
Everybody has the choice now, why not let them decide for themselves?
Speak for yourself. Print, web, multimedia, video, 3D, architects, etc. rarely work in an all white word document type scenario. Notice the color of this web page.
A matte monitor is not the same as museum glass. I didn't catch it from the article, but I don't believe Apple is going to put anti-glare museum glass in front of a matte LCD, but I could be wrong.
Bad news for me, because I was convinced the matte display was gone for a couple years, so I just bought a new battery and upgraded the OS on my Oct 2006 MBP.
Good news for me, because by the time I need a new computer, Apple might switch back to glossy from glassy, which would be the best of both worlds.
Bad news for me, because this laptop is slowly falling apart
Wait, the IPHONE brought about the trend towards glossy screens??
I know , which is totally ludicrous when you consider how a 4" screen would dictate how a 24" iMac screen should look.
... with a standard keyboard that has the numeric keypad hacked off (yes, I am aware you can get the keypad for free as an optional choice, but only via Apple's store).
Not so - many of the major online stores offer this choice too. As an example I just bought a 3.06 imac with the Radeon 4850 and the numeric keyboard from Powermax. It was configured just as I wanted and I had the choice of several stores to buy from, not just Apple.
FYI. Cheers
Think about it. Apple is now selling more laptops than it's ever sold in it's history. Would that be true if most people were against a glossy only option. The matte people are a vocal minority.
There is nothing wrong with his logic.
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/post-hoc/
It could be that the sales numbers do reflect at least a non-aversion to glossy screens. On the other hand, It could be that most people are against glossy screens, but that factor doesn't outweigh the other advantages they see in an Apple laptop. I was, rather obliquely, pointing out that Apple's sales numbers for laptops could be dependent on factors that have little or nothing to do with glossy vs. matte screens, so, without knowing exactly what is driving sales, it's not valid to make points about glossy vs. matte screens based on the sales numbers.
Personally, I'm somewhat ambivalent on the glossy vs. matte issue, and I wouldn't make a buy/don't buy decision based solely, nor even primarily, on that factor.