Yuck. The name does not cound nice too.. I really am beginning to suspect that Nokia could have something under it's sleeves about integration between their phones and now, laptops..
I think competition understands very well why Apple is succeeding, the challenge is always how to make this work in your own organization. As someone who worked for Symbian and was acquired by Nokia, this is the challange we face- and I have to say right now in the org it is pretty exciting
+1. Competitiors make Apple work more on its feet and it's better for us, consumers!
It's a bit too little and a bit too late. Nokia will remain a player but won't command the lead they once had. RIM and Apple will continue to take their marketshare.
Hi MacTel, and interesting comment, but a little preatture It is interesting to see how Nokia is written off so quickly given the massive market share, and it ability to reinvent itself (in 1990 Nokia's primary business was rubber tires and boots).
- 472 million phones shipped last year
- 1.1 billion users worldwide
- Nokia sells more phones than the next three or four competitors combined (Quote from Tero Ojanperä)
- Q2 44% share of the smartphone market (Apple 14% and RIM 21%)
I worked for Symbian until being acquired by Nokia, and it is interesting to see the buzz in the organisation right now. It is very true we have some tough and very different competition (to the more established phone OEMs), and we also have our own challenges to overcome, but that is what makes life exciting
Nokia has been selling their tablets for four years, is that what you mean by getting an early lead?
I doubt if many people take the current incarnation of Nokia's tablets seriously. I didn't even know Nokia made those. If and when Apple launches a device in between an iPhone and a Macbook, it will eat into the Netbook market as well as the tablet market. Selling a brand new net book with Windows 7 just seems rather "rush to market and get some traction" for me.
The bigger issue is that all of their different platforms don't seem to be getting the kind of attention they deserve. Software defects have always been a headache with the fancier Nokia phones.
The few times I've seen the Pre I've actually been fairly impressed with the OS, and I like the hardware too. They seem to be the competition for Apple now - I agree that the others are not upto much.
It's a bit too little and a bit too late. Nokia will remain a player but won't command the lead they once had. RIM and Apple will continue to take their marketshare.
cell phones aren't like computers. contracts expire every two years and the apps are cheap enough that i won't care to lose them. and unlike the 1990's when computers cost $3000 plus the software there is a much lower barrier to swtich to another cell phone
I checked and the specs on the new Nokia are better than the iphone, didn't see the software yet. don't know about usability, but the videos on boygeniusreport look nice and at least the graphics seem that the iphone interface looks ancient compared to this
That 44% seems like an impressive number until you look at Nokia's profit per handset, now how much of that 44% is made up of cheaper phones eg 6120, 5230 then how many of those phones are actually being used as smartphones given things like the iPhone's dominance of mobile web browsing, currently it's the number one camera uploading to Flickr and other evidence,
With so many Nokia smartphones around, don't you think it's disappointing that the uptake of Nokia's free email service is only just above a million after 8 months which is less than 0.5% of Nokia smartphones sold over that period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin.mcintyre
- Q2 44% share of the smartphone market (Apple 14% and RIM 21%)
cell phones aren't like computers. contracts expire every two years and the apps are cheap enough that i won't care to lose them. and unlike the 1990's when computers cost $3000 plus the software there is a much lower barrier to swtich to another cell phone.
Those are good points, but there are also points to be made about the software on the iPhone. Besides iPhone OS X being more advanced and more intuitive than other devices which is why it doesn?t have to beat other vendors on a spec sheet in order to be the best option for many, there is also the SDK which is by far the best mobile development platform. In a short time of creating a phone and having an SDK they have blown away every other mobile development platform by making it simple to use while offering excellent access to frameworks and foundations. Don?t say Android has this, because they simply don?t. The only faulty area for both the consumer and developer is the inconsistency in which Apple handles their App Store.
Quote:
I checked and the specs on the new Nokia are better than the iphone, didn't see the software yet. don't know about usability, but the videos on boygeniusreport look nice and at least the graphics seem that the iphone interface looks ancient compared to this
Which device is it, the N900, because the N97, which was released right around the same time as the 3GS and Pre have a lot of hardware from the original and 3G iPhone while still costing the same retail as the 3GS and Pre. It?s quite sad!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
That 44% seems like an impressive number until you look at Nokia's profit per handset, now how much of that 44% is made up of cheaper phones eg 6120, 5230 then how many of those phones are actually being used as smartphones given things like the iPhone's dominance of mobile web browsing, currently it's the number one camera uploading to Flickr and other evidence,
With so many Nokia smartphones around, don't you think it's disappointing that the uptake of Nokia's free email service is only just above a million after 8 months which is less than 0.5% of Nokia smartphones sold over that period.
That 44% seems like an impressive number until you look at Nokia's profit per handset, now how much of that 44% is made up of cheaper phones eg 6120, 5230 then how many of those phones are actually being used as smartphones given things like the iPhone's dominance of mobile web browsing, currently it's the number one camera uploading to Flickr and other evidence,
With so many Nokia smartphones around, don't you think it's disappointing that the uptake of Nokia's free email service is only just above a million after 8 months which is less than 0.5% of Nokia smartphones sold over that period.
It's not disappointing at all since Nokia hasn't really even pushed its services yet to handsets. Of course the uptake could be bigger but you have to realize that Nokia has always done things differently than Apple. And I'm pretty sure they will continue the same trend. And to be honest you have to remember that Flickr counts all iPhones as one, that is not what they do with Canon etc. No idea what they do with other mobiles.
Those are good points, but there are also points to be made about the software on the iPhone. Besides iPhone OS X being more advanced and more intuitive than other devices which is why it doesn’t have to beat other vendors on a spec sheet in order to be the best option for many, there is also the SDK which is by far the best mobile development platform. In a short time of creating a phone and having an SDK they have blown away every other mobile development platform by making it simple to use while offering excellent access to frameworks and foundations. Don’t say Android has this, because they simply don’t. The only faulty area for both the consumer and developer is the inconsistency in which Apple handles their App Store.
Which device is it, the N900, because the N97, which was released right around the same time as the 3GS and Pre have a lot of hardware from the original and 3G iPhone while still costing the same retail as the 3GS and Pre. It’s quite sad!
Relevant perspectives are not Nokia’s friend.
the N900
32GB storage and support for 16GB removable SD cards and a 5 mega pixel camera with a better lens. same CPU as the iphone and Pre. I've read Android's biggest problem is that it's Java based and that means no good games since you can't hit the hardware directly
looks nice on paper, will have to see in the real world
Nokia has a pretty good history. back in 2000 they killed Motorola in the handset market by knowing who to market to
32GB storage and support for 16GB removable SD cards and a 5 mega pixel camera with a better lens. same CPU as the iphone and Pre. I've read Android's biggest problem is that it's Java based and that means no good games since you can't hit the hardware directly
looks nice on paper, will have to see in the real world
Nokia has a pretty good history. back in 2000 they killed Motorola in the handset market by knowing who to market to
If removable storage and a better than average camera in a phone is very important then Nokia will likely always be your choice and the iPhone will never be as those aren?t things Apple wants to do and due to certain engineering goals they simply can?t do. Personally, those things have never appealed to me so I?m pretty much in the iPhone corner, though I do hope Nokia can make a financial comeback soon.
This is almost a perfect description of the attitude and state of the Linux community in general though.
Each year brings a new uber-cool "flavour" of Linux which solves many of the problems last years flavour, by establishing more control and more rules over what gets into the distro or not. Then next year there's a new flavour, and those in control of last year's flavour have relinquished some of their control in hopes of getting the community to solve some of it's many problems while this year's version is arguing for more control at the same time.
Rinse, repeat ...
it's Linux! the never-ending, almost-there, coulda-been, shoulda-been king of OS's
That 44% seems like an impressive number until you look at Nokia's profit per handset, now how much of that 44% is made up of cheaper phones eg 6120, 5230 then how many of those phones are actually being used as smartphones given things like the iPhone's dominance of mobile web browsing, currently it's the number one camera uploading to Flickr and other evidence,
With so many Nokia smartphones around, don't you think it's disappointing that the uptake of Nokia's free email service is only just above a million after 8 months which is less than 0.5% of Nokia smartphones sold over that period.
You raise good points but right now in the org it is pretty exciting
Also, just to be picky, Linux is "unix-like" but is not "based on Unix" or a Unix variant itself, but rather based on "Minix" which itself is a copy of some of Unix. Mac OS-X on the other hand, *is* Unix, (with a lot of GUI stuff bolted on). Granted, they are both a long way from the original thing that used to be called Unix, but to say Linux has the "same codebase" as Unix is misleading. The whole point of Linux is that it's not the same codebase as Unix.
You are utterly wrong here! Not only is Linux not derived from Minix but it *is* UNIX! I forget which company it was that payed for the UNIX certification. What you probably don't know is that UNIX has nothing to do with whether the underlying kernel is derived from original AT&T Unix kernels or not. Also, Linus Torvalds started out writing his system from scratch and originally used the very simple Minix file system. Linux is not and never was a modified Minix. Plus, the Linux kernel is about 2 orders of magnitude larger and supports a much larger feature set. Furthermore, what makes something UNIX is basically the system calls the operating system supports plus a set of libraries and utilities that the system includes and not how those system calls are implemented nor any ancestry of AT&T code!
Methinks you understate this fact. The iPhoone GUI is completely different, very complex, and superior in many ways. And from a user's perspective the GUI *is* the OS.
Which device is it, the N900, because the N97, which was released right around the same time as the 3GS and Pre have a lot of hardware from the original and 3G iPhone while still costing the same retail as the 3GS and Pre. It?s quite sad!
So it is okay for Apple to make an insane profit per device, but if someone else tries it, it is bad?
That 44% seems like an impressive number until you look at Nokia's profit per handset, now how much of that 44% is made up of cheaper phones eg 6120, 5230 then how many of those phones are actually being used as smartphones given things like the iPhone's dominance of mobile web browsing, currently it's the number one camera uploading to Flickr and other evidence,
As a consumer, I don't like corporations making such a huge profit of me.
I doubt if many people take the current incarnation of Nokia's tablets seriously. I didn't even know Nokia made those. If and when Apple launches a device in between an iPhone and a Macbook, it will eat into the Netbook market as well as the tablet market. Selling a brand new net book with Windows 7 just seems rather "rush to market and get some traction" for me.
I could say the same thing about the iPhone, especially since it has been over a year since I have seen one in public.
Comments
The N900 is one thing but what about this?
Yuck. The name does not cound nice too.. I really am beginning to suspect that Nokia could have something under it's sleeves about integration between their phones and now, laptops..
I think competition understands very well why Apple is succeeding, the challenge is always how to make this work in your own organization. As someone who worked for Symbian and was acquired by Nokia, this is the challange we face- and I have to say right now in the org it is pretty exciting
+1. Competitiors make Apple work more on its feet and it's better for us, consumers!
It's a bit too little and a bit too late. Nokia will remain a player but won't command the lead they once had. RIM and Apple will continue to take their marketshare.
Hi MacTel, and interesting comment, but a little preatture
- 472 million phones shipped last year
- 1.1 billion users worldwide
- Nokia sells more phones than the next three or four competitors combined (Quote from Tero Ojanperä)
- Q2 44% share of the smartphone market (Apple 14% and RIM 21%)
I worked for Symbian until being acquired by Nokia, and it is interesting to see the buzz in the organisation right now. It is very true we have some tough and very different competition (to the more established phone OEMs), and we also have our own challenges to overcome, but that is what makes life exciting
Cheers,
Kevin
iPhone debuted in 2007.
They've changed it.
Nokia has been selling their tablets for four years, is that what you mean by getting an early lead?
I doubt if many people take the current incarnation of Nokia's tablets seriously. I didn't even know Nokia made those. If and when Apple launches a device in between an iPhone and a Macbook, it will eat into the Netbook market as well as the tablet market. Selling a brand new net book with Windows 7 just seems rather "rush to market and get some traction" for me.
The bigger issue is that all of their different platforms don't seem to be getting the kind of attention they deserve. Software defects have always been a headache with the fancier Nokia phones.
I agree sort of.
The few times I've seen the Pre I've actually been fairly impressed with the OS, and I like the hardware too. They seem to be the competition for Apple now - I agree that the others are not upto much.
sort of ???
They've changed it.
it was that jail break debut on 06
It's a bit too little and a bit too late. Nokia will remain a player but won't command the lead they once had. RIM and Apple will continue to take their marketshare.
cell phones aren't like computers. contracts expire every two years and the apps are cheap enough that i won't care to lose them. and unlike the 1990's when computers cost $3000 plus the software there is a much lower barrier to swtich to another cell phone
I checked and the specs on the new Nokia are better than the iphone, didn't see the software yet. don't know about usability, but the videos on boygeniusreport look nice and at least the graphics seem that the iphone interface looks ancient compared to this
With so many Nokia smartphones around, don't you think it's disappointing that the uptake of Nokia's free email service is only just above a million after 8 months which is less than 0.5% of Nokia smartphones sold over that period.
- Q2 44% share of the smartphone market (Apple 14% and RIM 21%)
cell phones aren't like computers. contracts expire every two years and the apps are cheap enough that i won't care to lose them. and unlike the 1990's when computers cost $3000 plus the software there is a much lower barrier to swtich to another cell phone.
Those are good points, but there are also points to be made about the software on the iPhone. Besides iPhone OS X being more advanced and more intuitive than other devices which is why it doesn?t have to beat other vendors on a spec sheet in order to be the best option for many, there is also the SDK which is by far the best mobile development platform. In a short time of creating a phone and having an SDK they have blown away every other mobile development platform by making it simple to use while offering excellent access to frameworks and foundations. Don?t say Android has this, because they simply don?t. The only faulty area for both the consumer and developer is the inconsistency in which Apple handles their App Store.
I checked and the specs on the new Nokia are better than the iphone, didn't see the software yet. don't know about usability, but the videos on boygeniusreport look nice and at least the graphics seem that the iphone interface looks ancient compared to this
Which device is it, the N900, because the N97, which was released right around the same time as the 3GS and Pre have a lot of hardware from the original and 3G iPhone while still costing the same retail as the 3GS and Pre. It?s quite sad!
That 44% seems like an impressive number until you look at Nokia's profit per handset, now how much of that 44% is made up of cheaper phones eg 6120, 5230 then how many of those phones are actually being used as smartphones given things like the iPhone's dominance of mobile web browsing, currently it's the number one camera uploading to Flickr and other evidence,
With so many Nokia smartphones around, don't you think it's disappointing that the uptake of Nokia's free email service is only just above a million after 8 months which is less than 0.5% of Nokia smartphones sold over that period.
Relevant perspectives are not Nokia?s friend.
That 44% seems like an impressive number until you look at Nokia's profit per handset, now how much of that 44% is made up of cheaper phones eg 6120, 5230 then how many of those phones are actually being used as smartphones given things like the iPhone's dominance of mobile web browsing, currently it's the number one camera uploading to Flickr and other evidence,
With so many Nokia smartphones around, don't you think it's disappointing that the uptake of Nokia's free email service is only just above a million after 8 months which is less than 0.5% of Nokia smartphones sold over that period.
It's not disappointing at all since Nokia hasn't really even pushed its services yet to handsets. Of course the uptake could be bigger but you have to realize that Nokia has always done things differently than Apple. And I'm pretty sure they will continue the same trend. And to be honest you have to remember that Flickr counts all iPhones as one, that is not what they do with Canon etc. No idea what they do with other mobiles.
The device this thread is about is btw out.
Links:
http://maemo.nokia.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au_uRmoy8Fs & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP5R-5NX1BE & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhTtsZATwBQ
Those are good points, but there are also points to be made about the software on the iPhone. Besides iPhone OS X being more advanced and more intuitive than other devices which is why it doesn’t have to beat other vendors on a spec sheet in order to be the best option for many, there is also the SDK which is by far the best mobile development platform. In a short time of creating a phone and having an SDK they have blown away every other mobile development platform by making it simple to use while offering excellent access to frameworks and foundations. Don’t say Android has this, because they simply don’t. The only faulty area for both the consumer and developer is the inconsistency in which Apple handles their App Store.
Which device is it, the N900, because the N97, which was released right around the same time as the 3GS and Pre have a lot of hardware from the original and 3G iPhone while still costing the same retail as the 3GS and Pre. It’s quite sad!
Relevant perspectives are not Nokia’s friend.
the N900
32GB storage and support for 16GB removable SD cards and a 5 mega pixel camera with a better lens. same CPU as the iphone and Pre. I've read Android's biggest problem is that it's Java based and that means no good games since you can't hit the hardware directly
looks nice on paper, will have to see in the real world
Nokia has a pretty good history. back in 2000 they killed Motorola in the handset market by knowing who to market to
the N900
32GB storage and support for 16GB removable SD cards and a 5 mega pixel camera with a better lens. same CPU as the iphone and Pre. I've read Android's biggest problem is that it's Java based and that means no good games since you can't hit the hardware directly
looks nice on paper, will have to see in the real world
Nokia has a pretty good history. back in 2000 they killed Motorola in the handset market by knowing who to market to
If removable storage and a better than average camera in a phone is very important then Nokia will likely always be your choice and the iPhone will never be as those aren?t things Apple wants to do and due to certain engineering goals they simply can?t do. Personally, those things have never appealed to me so I?m pretty much in the iPhone corner, though I do hope Nokia can make a financial comeback soon.
This is almost a perfect description of the attitude and state of the Linux community in general though.
Each year brings a new uber-cool "flavour" of Linux which solves many of the problems last years flavour, by establishing more control and more rules over what gets into the distro or not. Then next year there's a new flavour, and those in control of last year's flavour have relinquished some of their control in hopes of getting the community to solve some of it's many problems while this year's version is arguing for more control at the same time.
Rinse, repeat ...
it's Linux! the never-ending, almost-there, coulda-been, shoulda-been king of OS's
mmm....
All the Woulda-Coulda-Shouldas
Layin' in the sun,
Talkin' 'bout the things
They woulda coulda shoulda done...
But those Woulda-Coulda-Shouldas
All ran away and hid
From one little Did.
-Shel Silverstein-
*
That 44% seems like an impressive number until you look at Nokia's profit per handset, now how much of that 44% is made up of cheaper phones eg 6120, 5230 then how many of those phones are actually being used as smartphones given things like the iPhone's dominance of mobile web browsing, currently it's the number one camera uploading to Flickr and other evidence,
With so many Nokia smartphones around, don't you think it's disappointing that the uptake of Nokia's free email service is only just above a million after 8 months which is less than 0.5% of Nokia smartphones sold over that period.
You raise good points but right now in the org it is pretty exciting
.
.
.
Also, just to be picky, Linux is "unix-like" but is not "based on Unix" or a Unix variant itself, but rather based on "Minix" which itself is a copy of some of Unix. Mac OS-X on the other hand, *is* Unix, (with a lot of GUI stuff bolted on). Granted, they are both a long way from the original thing that used to be called Unix, but to say Linux has the "same codebase" as Unix is misleading. The whole point of Linux is that it's not the same codebase as Unix.
You are utterly wrong here! Not only is Linux not derived from Minix but it *is* UNIX! I forget which company it was that payed for the UNIX certification. What you probably don't know is that UNIX has nothing to do with whether the underlying kernel is derived from original AT&T Unix kernels or not. Also, Linus Torvalds started out writing his system from scratch and originally used the very simple Minix file system. Linux is not and never was a modified Minix. Plus, the Linux kernel is about 2 orders of magnitude larger and supports a much larger feature set. Furthermore, what makes something UNIX is basically the system calls the operating system supports plus a set of libraries and utilities that the system includes and not how those system calls are implemented nor any ancestry of AT&T code!
...mostly just the GUI is different.
Methinks you understate this fact. The iPhoone GUI is completely different, very complex, and superior in many ways. And from a user's perspective the GUI *is* the OS.
Thompson
Which device is it, the N900, because the N97, which was released right around the same time as the 3GS and Pre have a lot of hardware from the original and 3G iPhone while still costing the same retail as the 3GS and Pre. It?s quite sad!
So it is okay for Apple to make an insane profit per device, but if someone else tries it, it is bad?
That 44% seems like an impressive number until you look at Nokia's profit per handset, now how much of that 44% is made up of cheaper phones eg 6120, 5230 then how many of those phones are actually being used as smartphones given things like the iPhone's dominance of mobile web browsing, currently it's the number one camera uploading to Flickr and other evidence,
As a consumer, I don't like corporations making such a huge profit of me.
I doubt if many people take the current incarnation of Nokia's tablets seriously. I didn't even know Nokia made those. If and when Apple launches a device in between an iPhone and a Macbook, it will eat into the Netbook market as well as the tablet market. Selling a brand new net book with Windows 7 just seems rather "rush to market and get some traction" for me.
I could say the same thing about the iPhone, especially since it has been over a year since I have seen one in public.