In other news, the same evidence of a touchscreen OS has been found on every Macintosh since the Mac 128.
Apparently Apple has been working on the touchscreen keyboard functionality since the 1980s.
BTW: The keyboard viewer is exactly what its name suggests. It allows you to see your keyboard and what characters will be displayed when modifier keys are used.
This is quite possibly the stupidest rumor I've ever seen (that's gotten any kind of traction at all).
In other news, the same evidence of a touchscreen OS has been found on every Macintosh since the Mac 128.
Apparently Apple has been working on the touchscreen keyboard functionality since the 1980s.
BTW: The keyboard viewer is exactly what its name suggests. It allows you to see your keyboard and what characters will be displayed when modifier keys are used.
This is quite possibly the stupidest rumor I've ever seen (that's gotten any kind of traction at all).
I know- I saw this as soon as I installed SL and thought no big deal.
Everyone does remember that whole Google fiasco? All we heard was one side of the issue until Apple finally came forward and set things straight. There were all sorts of ugly rumors and untruths about why this or that was rejected. They turned out to be baseless. Although there is merit in these complaints about the App store, I have to wonder if we're getting the entire story. This guy seems very pissed off, and if he's that angry, he may be tempted to stretch the truth or omit details.
I find it hard to believe that Apple, who has historically been all about consistent interface, would ding someone about using a consistent look. Now if this guys app actually duplicates functionality in an upcoming Apple offering (are these bubbles actually used for SMS or chat?) I can understand that, but I can't imagine they would reject this simply because it 'looks' like an existing UI element.
I don't usually post, but there are a lot of apps in the App Store that have that same iChat bubble look. Here's a few.
FakeSMS Celebrity Texting
BeeJive IM
Tweetie
Facebook (looks almost exactly like Messages.app)
Also, BeeJive IM even uses iChat/Messages sounds!
Why aren't those apps banned from the App Store?
I was thinking the same thing. Anyone else check the legitimacy of his claim? Was there possibly some other graphic in his app he used that Apple was referring to & he misunderstood?
I could see how he might stumble into this mess if he say, used the iChat icon to represent network play or something. Does the SDK not come with some standard graphics for a lot of the UI? Maybe the person reviewing his app is just wrong about the bubbles?
At the same time, I could see concern because of the ever growing app stores for the other phones. They don't want people developing an app that clearly has an iPhone look, and then allow an "apple looking" product to be ported to an Android phone or the Pre.
I don't see a problem with Apple wanting their apps to have a look so the public doesn't think Apple actually created it.
I guess I'm just playing devil's advocate or Apple's advocate in this case.
That virtual keyboard doesn't look ANYTHING like a keyboard I'd expect to see on a tablet.
Yeah, I'd expect them to take the iPhone virtual keyboard as a baseline implementation.
Sure, it would be a different size, but more importantly the use case is different.
Think about typing on a tablet. There are two ways to do this:
1) It's flat on a table, you're typing as if it is a keyboard.
2) It's in one hand (resting on your arm), and you're typing one handed.
No thumbs this way (unless they release a 6" or less device that you hold like a book with both hands). However the proximity correction will still be required. Basically, you want a bigger version of the iPhone keyboard, maybe better spaced keys and additional keys because you have the space on the bigger screen and a more capable device that requires modifier keys. Shift/ctrl/command/apple keys will be locking to deal with single-fingered typing.
I don't usually post, but there are a lot of apps in the App Store that have that same iChat bubble look. Here's a few.
FakeSMS Celebrity Texting
BeeJive IM
Tweetie
Facebook (looks almost exactly like Messages.app)
Also, BeeJive IM even uses iChat/Messages sounds!
Why aren't those apps banned from the App Store?
You are kind of answering your own question here and misleading everyone at the same time. The only app that's close to being *exactly* the same, (which is the actual requirement), is Facebook. Tweetie for instance is not similar at all.
I agree that these bubbles should probably be part of the iPhone API, but if they are not it's pretty obvious that they shouldn't be copied
While my money is squarely on Snow Leopard being the (as yet, unannounced) conduit OS for Apple to formally start converging their device matrix (iPhone, iPod touch, Macs, Apple TV, iPad Tablet) from an application run time and developer tools perspective, the "evidence" cited by Leander Kahney is fairly weak. As others have noted, it's far more likely for Apple to iterate from their best practices approach to virtual keyboard (iPhone/iPod touch) than simply tweaking the virtual keyboard that has been part of Mac OS for years.
Btw, if interested, here is the expanded analysis of the forthcoming Apple iPad Tablet device.
You are kind of answering your own question here and misleading everyone at the same time. The only app that's close to being *exactly* the same, (which is the actual requirement), is Facebook. Tweetie for instance is not similar at all.
I agree that these bubbles should probably be part of the iPhone API, but if they are not it's pretty obvious that they shouldn't be copied
In order to maintain UX consistency, certain UI conventions in iPhone OS should be followed. UI consistency should be encouraged. I haven't had to do anything involving this particular UI design pattern, but I would've imagined that it would be part of Cocoa UI. In any case, it most certainly is not trademarked.
Everyone does remember that whole Google fiasco? All we heard was one side of the issue until Apple finally came forward and set things straight. There were all sorts of ugly rumors and untruths about why this or that was rejected. They turned out to be baseless. Although there is merit in these complaints about the App store, I have to wonder if we're getting the entire story. This guy seems very pissed off, and if he's that angry, he may be tempted to stretch the truth or omit details.
I find it hard to believe that Apple, who has historically been all about consistent interface, would ding someone about using a consistent look. Now if this guys app actually duplicates functionality in an upcoming Apple offering (are these bubbles actually used for SMS or chat?) I can understand that, but I can't imagine they would reject this simply because it 'looks' like an existing UI element.
i seem to recall reading an article where somebody calculated that the average time a reviewer spends with an app as somewhere in the 5 minute range. if that is the case, i could imagine sometimes things get approved in one version that get later rejected by a different reviewer. i'm wondering if apple got overwhelmed by the success of the app store.
one thing seems to be certain with all the 'stories' that are out there: there need to be some clearer guidelines and maybe it's time to hire some more reviewers and get them all on the same page for the criteria they're rejecting/approving apps on.
There's also the new IOSurface - can't recall if it was a framework or kernel extension - in Snow Leopard that wasn't present in previous systems. I think the more important question at this stage is not if but when.
Dell already have capacitive touch tablets that came out a year or so after the first iphone and the video demo show how intuitive working this way actually is:
Except imagine it using Apple's interface instead of the stupid Windows one where you have to keep making so many repetitive gestures to do anything. 3 finger swipe right for expose, up for spaces, all the iphone copy/paste and the springy windows when scrolling.
If Dell did that 2 years ago, Apple can surely do it so much better by now and have it ready any time soon.
I'm not keen on the 10" size rumored. 13" seems fine and they can use dual-core Atom so that it won't be near the $2500 price tag of the Dell. Bundled with the 9400M, it could be one of two products that build on the Ion (maybe Ion 2) platform. The Apple TV being the other one.
Ion ATV + Ion tablet + new ipods would be a decent September event.
Stump is an idiot. If part of your app copies the look and feel of one of Apples apps then don't expect it to pass muster.
Your statement ignores Apple's problems with communication. Communication is the key here, if they do so in a timely and respectful way then developers can decide what to do.
Also Apple WANTS YOUR APPS TO LOOK LIKE APPLE APPS!!! Why do you think they give developers the same keyboard, pop up windows, badges, etc. They want there to be a similar feel to ALL apps on the iPhone. Yet when one looks too much like an app that they find problematic, they don't want similarity of feel.
This is and will always be a problem for Apple, b/c they want to walk a tight rope between control/conformity and creativity and they want to create standards while also maintaining control. These have been, are and will be problematic, opposing desires. MS has the same problem, but works at it in totally different ways.
Upon installation of Snow Leopard (or a future minor OS X upgrade), and an as yet unreleased secret key combination or Preferences option, those shiny screens on the current generation of iMacs and MacBooks were to become touch sensitive, allowing incredible multi-touch creative freedom.
Don't laugh, the iPod Touch V2 had hidden Bluetooth, something only activated almost a YEAR after it's release with iPhone OS 3. And Bluetooth is no minor feature in a music device, just as touch operation of the world's greatest creative productivity tool would also be a vital component of its functionality.
Could a company, in particular Apple, do something like this? Even unintentionally? Perhaps they held back the touch component of the OS in order to get it right, hence the odd (and controversial) decision to release glossy screens.
Comments
Apparently Apple has been working on the touchscreen keyboard functionality since the 1980s.
BTW: The keyboard viewer is exactly what its name suggests. It allows you to see your keyboard and what characters will be displayed when modifier keys are used.
This is quite possibly the stupidest rumor I've ever seen (that's gotten any kind of traction at all).
In other news, the same evidence of a touchscreen OS has been found on every Macintosh since the Mac 128.
Apparently Apple has been working on the touchscreen keyboard functionality since the 1980s.
BTW: The keyboard viewer is exactly what its name suggests. It allows you to see your keyboard and what characters will be displayed when modifier keys are used.
This is quite possibly the stupidest rumor I've ever seen (that's gotten any kind of traction at all).
I know- I saw this as soon as I installed SL and thought no big deal.
I find it hard to believe that Apple, who has historically been all about consistent interface, would ding someone about using a consistent look. Now if this guys app actually duplicates functionality in an upcoming Apple offering (are these bubbles actually used for SMS or chat?) I can understand that, but I can't imagine they would reject this simply because it 'looks' like an existing UI element.
I don't usually post, but there are a lot of apps in the App Store that have that same iChat bubble look. Here's a few.
FakeSMS Celebrity Texting
BeeJive IM
Tweetie
Facebook (looks almost exactly like Messages.app)
Also, BeeJive IM even uses iChat/Messages sounds!
Why aren't those apps banned from the App Store?
I was thinking the same thing. Anyone else check the legitimacy of his claim? Was there possibly some other graphic in his app he used that Apple was referring to & he misunderstood?
I could see how he might stumble into this mess if he say, used the iChat icon to represent network play or something. Does the SDK not come with some standard graphics for a lot of the UI? Maybe the person reviewing his app is just wrong about the bubbles?
+++
Major league retarded on Apple's part.
At the same time, I could see concern because of the ever growing app stores for the other phones. They don't want people developing an app that clearly has an iPhone look, and then allow an "apple looking" product to be ported to an Android phone or the Pre.
I don't see a problem with Apple wanting their apps to have a look so the public doesn't think Apple actually created it.
I guess I'm just playing devil's advocate or Apple's advocate in this case.
In other news, the same evidence of a touchscreen OS has been found on every Macintosh since the Mac 128.
Apparently Apple has been working on the touchscreen keyboard functionality since the 1980s.
Agree - though one thing that's a bit unusual/interesting is the removal of the font mapping.
That virtual keyboard doesn't look ANYTHING like a keyboard I'd expect to see on a tablet.
Yeah, I'd expect them to take the iPhone virtual keyboard as a baseline implementation.
Sure, it would be a different size, but more importantly the use case is different.
Think about typing on a tablet. There are two ways to do this:
1) It's flat on a table, you're typing as if it is a keyboard.
2) It's in one hand (resting on your arm), and you're typing one handed.
No thumbs this way (unless they release a 6" or less device that you hold like a book with both hands). However the proximity correction will still be required. Basically, you want a bigger version of the iPhone keyboard, maybe better spaced keys and additional keys because you have the space on the bigger screen and a more capable device that requires modifier keys. Shift/ctrl/command/apple keys will be locking to deal with single-fingered typing.
I don't usually post, but there are a lot of apps in the App Store that have that same iChat bubble look. Here's a few.
FakeSMS Celebrity Texting
BeeJive IM
Tweetie
Facebook (looks almost exactly like Messages.app)
Also, BeeJive IM even uses iChat/Messages sounds!
Why aren't those apps banned from the App Store?
You are kind of answering your own question here and misleading everyone at the same time. The only app that's close to being *exactly* the same, (which is the actual requirement), is Facebook. Tweetie for instance is not similar at all.
I agree that these bubbles should probably be part of the iPhone API, but if they are not it's pretty obvious that they shouldn't be copied
Btw, if interested, here is the expanded analysis of the forthcoming Apple iPad Tablet device.
Apple, the ‘Boomer’ Tablet and the Matrix
http://bit.ly/DwziS
Cheers,
Mark
That virtual keyboard doesn't look ANYTHING like a keyboard I'd expect to see on a tablet.
Agreed, and obviously so.
You are kind of answering your own question here and misleading everyone at the same time. The only app that's close to being *exactly* the same, (which is the actual requirement), is Facebook. Tweetie for instance is not similar at all.
I agree that these bubbles should probably be part of the iPhone API, but if they are not it's pretty obvious that they shouldn't be copied
In order to maintain UX consistency, certain UI conventions in iPhone OS should be followed. UI consistency should be encouraged. I haven't had to do anything involving this particular UI design pattern, but I would've imagined that it would be part of Cocoa UI. In any case, it most certainly is not trademarked.
SNIP
I am getting tired of these half-baked attempts at a media grab every time a developer gets his nose bent out of shape. The madness has to end.
that was my first thought too. developers getting attention by airing their dirty laundry in public. seems to work though, eh?
Everyone does remember that whole Google fiasco? All we heard was one side of the issue until Apple finally came forward and set things straight. There were all sorts of ugly rumors and untruths about why this or that was rejected. They turned out to be baseless. Although there is merit in these complaints about the App store, I have to wonder if we're getting the entire story. This guy seems very pissed off, and if he's that angry, he may be tempted to stretch the truth or omit details.
I find it hard to believe that Apple, who has historically been all about consistent interface, would ding someone about using a consistent look. Now if this guys app actually duplicates functionality in an upcoming Apple offering (are these bubbles actually used for SMS or chat?) I can understand that, but I can't imagine they would reject this simply because it 'looks' like an existing UI element.
i seem to recall reading an article where somebody calculated that the average time a reviewer spends with an app as somewhere in the 5 minute range. if that is the case, i could imagine sometimes things get approved in one version that get later rejected by a different reviewer. i'm wondering if apple got overwhelmed by the success of the app store.
one thing seems to be certain with all the 'stories' that are out there: there need to be some clearer guidelines and maybe it's time to hire some more reviewers and get them all on the same page for the criteria they're rejecting/approving apps on.
Dell already have capacitive touch tablets that came out a year or so after the first iphone and the video demo show how intuitive working this way actually is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waZj4NpT4-o
Except imagine it using Apple's interface instead of the stupid Windows one where you have to keep making so many repetitive gestures to do anything. 3 finger swipe right for expose, up for spaces, all the iphone copy/paste and the springy windows when scrolling.
If Dell did that 2 years ago, Apple can surely do it so much better by now and have it ready any time soon.
I'm not keen on the 10" size rumored. 13" seems fine and they can use dual-core Atom so that it won't be near the $2500 price tag of the Dell. Bundled with the 9400M, it could be one of two products that build on the Ion (maybe Ion 2) platform. The Apple TV being the other one.
Ion ATV + Ion tablet + new ipods would be a decent September event.
Stump is an idiot. If part of your app copies the look and feel of one of Apples apps then don't expect it to pass muster.
Your statement ignores Apple's problems with communication. Communication is the key here, if they do so in a timely and respectful way then developers can decide what to do.
Also Apple WANTS YOUR APPS TO LOOK LIKE APPLE APPS!!! Why do you think they give developers the same keyboard, pop up windows, badges, etc. They want there to be a similar feel to ALL apps on the iPhone. Yet when one looks too much like an app that they find problematic, they don't want similarity of feel.
This is and will always be a problem for Apple, b/c they want to walk a tight rope between control/conformity and creativity and they want to create standards while also maintaining control. These have been, are and will be problematic, opposing desires. MS has the same problem, but works at it in totally different ways.
Upon installation of Snow Leopard (or a future minor OS X upgrade), and an as yet unreleased secret key combination or Preferences option, those shiny screens on the current generation of iMacs and MacBooks were to become touch sensitive, allowing incredible multi-touch creative freedom.
Don't laugh, the iPod Touch V2 had hidden Bluetooth, something only activated almost a YEAR after it's release with iPhone OS 3. And Bluetooth is no minor feature in a music device, just as touch operation of the world's greatest creative productivity tool would also be a vital component of its functionality.
Could a company, in particular Apple, do something like this? Even unintentionally? Perhaps they held back the touch component of the OS in order to get it right, hence the odd (and controversial) decision to release glossy screens.
Am I mad?
that was my first thought too. developers getting attention by airing their dirty laundry in public. seems to work though, eh?
Do you really think that more people buy an app for it was rejected before?
count to 3 and start thinking again. any difference?
Imagine, the world's most fantastic Easter Egg...
...snip...
Am I mad?
That's for you and your doctor to decide.
But you're certainly wrong.
:d