If they can successfully launch the iPhone at $600, they can do anything at any price and get away with it.
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Originally Posted by Carmissimo
Another point. A tablet is likely to be held closer to your face than a netbook/laptop. As a result, in terms of perspective, a 7" tablet is going to appear similar to a 10" netbook.
It won't be held any closer, really. And like the word around goes, they tried 7" but deemed it too small.
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Originally Posted by Carmissimo
Right now lots of people are getting all excited about a 10-inch tablet but how many would be prepared to spend close to a grand to buy one. A very small percentage, I think. These days especially financial news is a little scary and most people are not going to be in a hurry to buy a big-ticket item with very limited usability.
You're saying it's very limited, but you haven't seen it in action yet. I highly doubt they'll release a tablet after 6 years that will have limited use. This is one of the reasons it's taken "sooo" long. They want to make it have lots of uses.
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Originally Posted by Carmissimo
Next stop, a 5" touch at a similar price point to the current model coming to market before next fall, probably this spring. Such a device would be a sales success and offer an easier transition up to an even bigger unit a few years down the road.
Yeah, and 10 years down the road the offer 20 of them in all different sizes? This isn't how Apple works. They made a pocketable item first, they have that area covered, now they are going to go 10" and make the first tablet computer in the history of the planet that people will desperately want.
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Originally Posted by Carmissimo
By that I mean if you introduce files designed for the bigger screen, those files would be useable with a bigger device later on. In the meantime, the 5" Touch would be compatible with existing App Store apps.
If they can successfully launch the iPhone at $600, they can do anything at any price and get away with it.
It won't be held any closer, really. And like the word around goes, they tried 7" but deemed it too small.
You're saying it's very limited, but you haven't seen it in action yet. I highly doubt they'll release a tablet after 6 years that will have limited use. This is one of the reasons it's taken "sooo" long. They want to make it have lots of uses.
Yeah, and 10 years down the road the offer 20 of them in all different sizes? This isn't how Apple works. They made a pocketable item first, they have that area covered, now they are going to go 10" and make the first tablet computer in the history of the planet that people will desperately want.
No it would not.
Let me clarify what I mean re the evolutionary thing. A 5" touch would introduce a higher resolution point. Take movies, for instance. They are set for the current Touch but they would not look bad on a 5-inch version. Meanwhile higher-res files start being made to take advantage of the higher-res 5" screen. This device is on the market maybe two years during which time a significant collection of software and media is built up to take advantage of the bigger device. At that point, out comes a 7" Touch which would be able to use the files designed for the 5" unit. The process is repeated and two years later still a 9" Touch comes to market.
I would expect that when the 7-inch model came to market, the 5[incher would stay on, much as the Classic has continued on account of when you go beyond the 5" form factor, the device is no longer pocketable, though still quite portable. On the other hand, the 7" touch would not remain with the arrival of the 9" unit, i.e. the 9-incher would replace the 7-incher.
While all this is going on, the Nano is made more capable to satisfy the market currently served by the existing Touch.
One of the great advantages of this process is that the transition in terms of software availability and media would be pretty much seamless. This is important because when you introduce a new device but people can't do all that much with it, adoption suffers. When a device's adoption is weak in the early going it takes a long time to overcome the negative impact that has on that device's reputation.
Another advantage is that you can hold the line on cost. Instead of nailing consumers with sticker shock you offer a significantly more appealing product for a very modest price increase. I can easily imagine a 5" Touch coming in within $100 of the current version. This is a very marketable product, especially since the impact of going up to a 5-inch screen is something a lot of people are probably underestimating because it's not a big number. But o n such a small device it's a substantial leap forward. Initially the reaction would be, "What's the big deal? They just made a bigger Touch." But once people started using the thing, I suspect the enjoyment factor would significantly improve and with it customer satisfaction.
As for your comment regarding how Apple works, if memory serves, initially there was but one iPod. Now we have the Shuffle, the Nano, the Classic, the Touch and the iPhone. No offence but if you think expanding the iPod line is not what Apple has been doing, you're not paying attention. It's precisely what Apple has done.
I have a couple of reasons for suspecting an incremental evolution for the Touch. It's what Apple has been doing and the recent update of the Touch was surprisingly anemic. Also, now Apple is marketing the Touch as more pocketable computer than a version of the iPod. This sets up for a new version of the Touch coming to market not along with the rest of the iPod line but in sync with the laptop line. In other words, when they update the MacBooks, update the Touch, aligning it more as a portable computer than a media player. So they give it a minimal update in September, market it as a computer, and then in the spring, take it over to the computer side of the family.
This is pure conjecture on my part but it makes a ton more sense than Apple bringing out an ultra-expensive tablet in the spring with very little software support. One way they maintain their edge over the competition, the other way they wind up with a neat device nobody will buy. I choose Door No. 1 and I think Apple will as well.
Let me clarify what I mean re the evolutionary thing. A 5" touch would introduce a higher resolution point. Take movies, for instance. They are set for the current Touch but they would not look bad on a 5-inch version. Meanwhile higher-res files start being made to take advantage of the higher-res 5" screen. This device is on the market maybe two years during which time a significant collection of software and media is built up to take advantage of the bigger device. At that point, out comes a 7" Touch which would be able to use the files designed for the 5" unit. The process is repeated and two years later still a 9" Touch comes to market.
Yeah, and every year humans hands evolve to match the bigger size of the apps designed for smaller devices by growing 1" miraculously. You're idea won't happen.
Like I say, they have done pocketable, now they need to do a full-size 10" "Mac" touch.
Yeah, and 10 years down the road the offer 20 of them in all different sizes? This isn't how Apple works. They made a pocketable item first, they have that area covered, now they are going to go 10" and make the first tablet computer in the history of the planet that people will desperately want.
The advantage is cost. A 7-inch device would mean a less expensive screen, a less expensive battery, and it would be better able to handle legacy Touch files like movies, etc.
About the only thing I agree with above is that the Screen MIGHT be more expensive, Apple could easily sell a larger Touch with a modestly souped up GPU and be done with it. The PC board this is all mounted on doesn't need to be any bigger than what is currently in Touch. As to batteries Apple seems willing to charge whatever they want for a battery.
Legacy apps are an interesting issue and there are a number of ways that Apple can deal with them. So screen size means nothing until you have seen the solutuion for legacy apps. More interesting is the aspect of movies. First a legacy app won't be used to play the files back as a new app can address specific hardware resources do do the job. As far as videos specifically encoded to play on an iPhone screen, except for saving space, I see that as a mistake. Better to keep your video in standard formats.
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You're right that pocketability is only viable up to 5 inches and as such, in terms of transporting a 7-incher vs. a 10-incher, there is no meaningful difference.
my god you are way off on this one. The best way I have to visualize this is for somebody to get a ruler and an O'Reilly pocket reference. The diagonal on these is a hair over 8 inches, with the ruler laying across the diagonal you can see that a ten inch device is rather hugeand no where near as transportable as even this 8" sized device. A 7" is very pocketable in the same way a paperback is.
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A touch-screen tablet at either size point would be amazingly light, certainly much ligher than a typical netbook.
This is the case, provided it is reasonably thin. Frankly it is a key feature if you ask me.
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Another point. A tablet is likely to be held closer to your face than a netbook/laptop. As a result, in terms of perspective, a 7" tablet is going to appear similar to a 10" netbook.
I might agree with you but then I've watched people with very small netbooks at hot spots around town. Their faces are often hurried in the screen trying to see what is going on.
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I think you may be underestimating the extent to which going with a larger screen impacts on the cost of the resulting product. You need to factor in roughly about an additional $175, if not more, to take a comparable product from 7 inches to 10 inches. That's not pocket change.
I'm not sure where your numbers come from, depending on the avenue taken the only thing that might change is the size of the screen and battery, changes which might not add as much as you think. Especially considering that ten inches is a mass produced screen size.
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In addition, I think I missed the part where Apple issued a press release in which they concluded that after checking out assorted form factors, they concluded 7 inches is too small. You are basically assuming that an unsubstantiated rumour about a product that itself has in no way shape or form been confirmed, is a verified fact.
It is a common theme on the forums, people can't distinguish between rumors and released products. Sad really!
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Apple is one of the most secretive corporations in the world. They are the leaders in this space and hence want to ensure the competition remains in the dark. Remarkably, people who have no inside knowledge appear to be assuming that they know exactly what Apple is up to, what decisions have been made about unreleased products, etc. If at some point Apple releases a 10-inch tablet, I'm sure they would have sound reasons for doing so. But it's not a confirmed fact that the 10-inch tablet is on its way. That reports that this form factor is imminent have been circulating for years really should be a red flag. Jobs is picky but he's not that picky. Most of the stuff Apple unleashes rumor sites and the like never see coming until maybe it's so close to the release date that it's too late for the competition to respond quickly. I find it unlikely that the competition would be given years worth of advance notice on a brand new product.
I look at it this way the lack of product confirms nothing. I have to disagree though with the scoops that the rumor sights do get. They are real. But recent history shows that almost anything can happen at the last minute.
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Myself, I think the next rational move is for Apple to take the Touch to the next level, remaining ballpark in terms of price point. That next level is not a 10-inch tablet. Frankly that's the sort of obvious overkill that is typical of the competition, not Apple.
it is not over kill there are just far fewer reasons to buy such a large device. My great fear is that Apple does go the ten inch route and then calls the whole idea a failure due to lax sales. The potential for a 7" class device is relatively huge, I do hope that Apple realizes that.
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I believe cost is a huge issue. No other manufacturer has been able to deliver anything close to a 10-inch tablet form factor for a reasonable price and Apple traditionally has offered products that are more expensive to buy initially.
I have to disagree with the idea that a ten inch device has to be expensive. It doesn't have to be and that price point is governed by the capabilities built into the device. With ARM and the latest 40nm processes Apple can have a huge amount of capability built into the SoC making a given level of capability very cheap.
It should be noted that Flash is what makes the current Touches expensive. Even here prices drop rapidly.
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Why not just buy a laptop and be done with it? Maybe a handful of professionals would like to have something like a large touchscreen device but custom orders are not what Apple is about.
Actually for a certain class of users a large Touch screen may be a better choice. That doesn't make for a custom product but rather a low volume one. In that regard it is no different than a Mac Pro vs an iMac. The high volume play though remains in the 7" range.
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Right now lots of people are getting all excited about a 10-inch tablet but how many would be prepared to spend close to a grand to buy one. A very small percentage, I think. These days especially financial news is a little scary and most people are not going to be in a hurry to buy a big-ticket item with very limited usability.
I don't think Apple is targetting the $1000 buck range at all. These devices will start at under $500 bucks and yes that is for a ten inch device. Prices will certainly go up from there to support additional flash or some of the new memory tech. Of course we are also talking the basic device here, add in GPS or 3G and cost could soar from there.
The fact is if Apple wants people to see this as an alternative to netbooks it will have to be agressive with pricing. A tiny PC board a big battery and a nice screen should allow for this price point and good margians.
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The good news is that this will all be over in a few months. If we approach summer and this 10-incher still hasn't materialized, I doubt there will be anyone left who genuinely thinks the thing is really coming. I do see Apple continuing to innovate with touchscreen technology but my gut feeling is that the rumours we're getting now are largely off the mark. If anything, Apple is letting misinformation find its way into the hands of rumour dispensers to throw off the competition.
I truely doubt that.
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Rather than expect a major break from the Touch, an evolutionary next step is more in line with what I think Apple will do next. I'm sure it will disappoint quite a few folks and I also believe that whatever Apple does, it will be well executed. I especially am thinking along those lines in light of Apple now marketing the Touch as a small computer, as opposed to just a glorified media player. This could be where they wanted to take the Touch all along. Next stop, a 5" touch at a similar price point to the current model coming to market before next fall, probably this spring. Such a device would be a sales success and offer an easier transition up to an even bigger unit a few years down the road. By that I mean if you introduce files designed for the bigger screen, those files would be useable with a bigger device later on. In the meantime, the 5" Touch would be compatible with existing App Store apps. A seamless transition that would not cause an awkward transition period during which there would be very limited software available for a bigger form factor. This is exactly how Apple has evolved the iPod to date and I have to ask, if it has worked out brilliantly for them, why would they suddenly opt to operate more like the competition by releasing a product that looks impressive on paper but in the hands of consumers would prove less than satisfying.
you do like to guess here. My guess is that you are wrong but only slightly. I still see Apple shooting for a 7" screen. That would be optimal for transportability and mobile game play.
Game play is a notable feature of Touch and as such Apple needs to keep an eye on this as the right size device could see a huge boost in sales. With Apples recent statements about gaming I see a mid size Touch as a significant possibility. Frankly I makes sense, if Apple is making a gaming play then they need a family of products.
The one great truth here though is that this should be over in a few months. Like you said. The difference is I can see more than a couple of months here as the next great iPod rev is still months off.
I object to aspersions cast toward bathroom web browsing. Our economy is collapsing, and making poop productive is our last chance at civilization.
Please don't turn this forum into Reddit. That website has become unbearably shallow and immature. Every single comment thread is for cheap laughs. I remember when the site had actual cred. - no longer.
If Apple can deliver a high-quality 10-inch tablet for about $500, this would constitute a huge accomplishment. Not likely though. A 5-7" device, on the other hand, is doable at that price point. Personally I would like to see a 7-inch device but from a transitional point of view, a 5-incher would be easier to implement.
I guess the point to all my ramblings is that I don't buy that Apple has made up its mind necessarily to make a 10-inch tablet its next move.
I think it's a safe bet Apple is exploring its options re touch-screen form factors. But it's not in keeping with how Apple has been operating in recent years to expect them to release a product that isn't really all that well thought out. If this was about putting out a tablet with a 10-inch screen, it would have happened by now.
Right now, I have to say there has been no viable case made for the rumoured 10-inch tablet. So the logical conclusion would be that it's not coming any time soon, if ever. Apple certainly hasn't officially stated it intends to bring this creation to market so if it doesn't get released, they have not failed in any way.
Right now, I have to say there has been no viable case made for the rumoured 10-inch tablet.
Well, not if one is convinced it will be a 7" tablet. I don't see a viable case for anything but a 10" tablet. Seven inches just doesn't differentiate it enough from an iPod Touch, and, because it would have to sell at not much more than a Touch, would likely drive the Touch price down -- i.e., lack of differentiation from existing products wouldn't make sense for Apple.
Ten inches is not exactly a huge size tablet, but it is about trade paperback size, which a) makes for fairly comfortable reading, and b) offers enough screen real estate that you can start to do some very useful work. It's also a very comfortable size for thumb typing if the keyboard is split in half -- that is, if it doesn't extend all the way across but is pulled in half into the corners (sort of like one of those MS ergonomic keyboards), the center space could also be given some new function -- and you start to get to the point that with the keyboard on screen you can still see quite a bit of what it is you are working on.
I don't see any reason why Apple would release anything but a 10" tablet, and it will not simply run iPhone apps stretched out or stuck in little windows. (It may run them, but iPhone OS would only be a subset of the tablet OS).
A tablet with a little dock at home and optional keyboard to turn it into a little Mac.
That'd satisfy my Netbook cravings I think.
Please drop this argument, it's weak at best. If you think that way just get a MacBook. This product will be a slate and that's it. If you don't like that then get a notebook. I'm not intending to be negative, just realistic. That make-shift solution you are talking about is the most un-Apple thing I've ever heard. It's like people wanting to use a bluetooth keyboard with their iPhone, it's bizarre and extremely geeky - in the bad sense of the term.
I for one want the competition between MS and Apple, since we had no direct competition for long time and this would show, who is an innovator and who is duplicator!
In end the consumer wins (me and millions others).
It seems like most everything Microsoft produces is either significantly modeled after another product, and if they can't do that well... then they just buy up the competition (or try to do so).
IBM developed significant parts of DOS, Excel came out after Lotus 1-2-3 & Visicalc, MS bought Visio, MS tried to buy Quicken when MS Money didn't do that well in the market... the XBox was introduced after Playstation, Dreamcast, & GameCube... and of course there are what seems like zillions of examples of copying Apple ideas.
For the most part, it seems like Microsoft couldn't innovate their way out of a paper bag.
A tablet with a little dock at home and optional keyboard to turn it into a little Mac.
That'd satisfy my Netbook cravings I think.
I had the same dream 6-12 month ago. Then I realized that the tablet will not run Mac OS. Since I wanted to try to develop for iPhone, I got a MacBook instead.
However, I do think that a tablet with a stand (built-in?) and wireless keyboard would cover most people´s (home) computing needs. Surfing the web, managing photos, light word processing - these would all work well on a tablet with iLife and iWork. Plus. of course, the added benefit of mobility within and out of the home.
Also, I would like to bring a couple of other benfits of the iPhone OS.
- Security: As I understand it, the sandbox model for apps makes it inherently more secure than Mac OS.
- User interface: Apart from being touch-based, I think it's a better UI paradigm with the functions/elements visible for the user, instead of being hidden in deep menus.
To sum up, I believe tablet computing based on iPhone OS is the future.
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The advantage is cost.
If they can successfully launch the iPhone at $600, they can do anything at any price and get away with it.
Another point. A tablet is likely to be held closer to your face than a netbook/laptop. As a result, in terms of perspective, a 7" tablet is going to appear similar to a 10" netbook.
It won't be held any closer, really. And like the word around goes, they tried 7" but deemed it too small.
Right now lots of people are getting all excited about a 10-inch tablet but how many would be prepared to spend close to a grand to buy one. A very small percentage, I think. These days especially financial news is a little scary and most people are not going to be in a hurry to buy a big-ticket item with very limited usability.
You're saying it's very limited, but you haven't seen it in action yet. I highly doubt they'll release a tablet after 6 years that will have limited use. This is one of the reasons it's taken "sooo" long. They want to make it have lots of uses.
Next stop, a 5" touch at a similar price point to the current model coming to market before next fall, probably this spring. Such a device would be a sales success and offer an easier transition up to an even bigger unit a few years down the road.
Yeah, and 10 years down the road the offer 20 of them in all different sizes? This isn't how Apple works. They made a pocketable item first, they have that area covered, now they are going to go 10" and make the first tablet computer in the history of the planet that people will desperately want.
By that I mean if you introduce files designed for the bigger screen, those files would be useable with a bigger device later on. In the meantime, the 5" Touch would be compatible with existing App Store apps.
No it would not.
If they can successfully launch the iPhone at $600, they can do anything at any price and get away with it.
It won't be held any closer, really. And like the word around goes, they tried 7" but deemed it too small.
You're saying it's very limited, but you haven't seen it in action yet. I highly doubt they'll release a tablet after 6 years that will have limited use. This is one of the reasons it's taken "sooo" long. They want to make it have lots of uses.
Yeah, and 10 years down the road the offer 20 of them in all different sizes? This isn't how Apple works. They made a pocketable item first, they have that area covered, now they are going to go 10" and make the first tablet computer in the history of the planet that people will desperately want.
No it would not.
Let me clarify what I mean re the evolutionary thing. A 5" touch would introduce a higher resolution point. Take movies, for instance. They are set for the current Touch but they would not look bad on a 5-inch version. Meanwhile higher-res files start being made to take advantage of the higher-res 5" screen. This device is on the market maybe two years during which time a significant collection of software and media is built up to take advantage of the bigger device. At that point, out comes a 7" Touch which would be able to use the files designed for the 5" unit. The process is repeated and two years later still a 9" Touch comes to market.
I would expect that when the 7-inch model came to market, the 5[incher would stay on, much as the Classic has continued on account of when you go beyond the 5" form factor, the device is no longer pocketable, though still quite portable. On the other hand, the 7" touch would not remain with the arrival of the 9" unit, i.e. the 9-incher would replace the 7-incher.
While all this is going on, the Nano is made more capable to satisfy the market currently served by the existing Touch.
One of the great advantages of this process is that the transition in terms of software availability and media would be pretty much seamless. This is important because when you introduce a new device but people can't do all that much with it, adoption suffers. When a device's adoption is weak in the early going it takes a long time to overcome the negative impact that has on that device's reputation.
Another advantage is that you can hold the line on cost. Instead of nailing consumers with sticker shock you offer a significantly more appealing product for a very modest price increase. I can easily imagine a 5" Touch coming in within $100 of the current version. This is a very marketable product, especially since the impact of going up to a 5-inch screen is something a lot of people are probably underestimating because it's not a big number. But o n such a small device it's a substantial leap forward. Initially the reaction would be, "What's the big deal? They just made a bigger Touch." But once people started using the thing, I suspect the enjoyment factor would significantly improve and with it customer satisfaction.
As for your comment regarding how Apple works, if memory serves, initially there was but one iPod. Now we have the Shuffle, the Nano, the Classic, the Touch and the iPhone. No offence but if you think expanding the iPod line is not what Apple has been doing, you're not paying attention. It's precisely what Apple has done.
I have a couple of reasons for suspecting an incremental evolution for the Touch. It's what Apple has been doing and the recent update of the Touch was surprisingly anemic. Also, now Apple is marketing the Touch as more pocketable computer than a version of the iPod. This sets up for a new version of the Touch coming to market not along with the rest of the iPod line but in sync with the laptop line. In other words, when they update the MacBooks, update the Touch, aligning it more as a portable computer than a media player. So they give it a minimal update in September, market it as a computer, and then in the spring, take it over to the computer side of the family.
This is pure conjecture on my part but it makes a ton more sense than Apple bringing out an ultra-expensive tablet in the spring with very little software support. One way they maintain their edge over the competition, the other way they wind up with a neat device nobody will buy. I choose Door No. 1 and I think Apple will as well.
Let me clarify what I mean re the evolutionary thing. A 5" touch would introduce a higher resolution point. Take movies, for instance. They are set for the current Touch but they would not look bad on a 5-inch version. Meanwhile higher-res files start being made to take advantage of the higher-res 5" screen. This device is on the market maybe two years during which time a significant collection of software and media is built up to take advantage of the bigger device. At that point, out comes a 7" Touch which would be able to use the files designed for the 5" unit. The process is repeated and two years later still a 9" Touch comes to market.
Yeah, and every year humans hands evolve to match the bigger size of the apps designed for smaller devices by growing 1" miraculously. You're idea won't happen.
Like I say, they have done pocketable, now they need to do a full-size 10" "Mac" touch.
Yeah, and 10 years down the road the offer 20 of them in all different sizes? This isn't how Apple works. They made a pocketable item first, they have that area covered, now they are going to go 10" and make the first tablet computer in the history of the planet that people will desperately want.
This is true. This is Apple.
Lemon Bon Bon.
The advantage is cost. A 7-inch device would mean a less expensive screen, a less expensive battery, and it would be better able to handle legacy Touch files like movies, etc.
About the only thing I agree with above is that the Screen MIGHT be more expensive, Apple could easily sell a larger Touch with a modestly souped up GPU and be done with it. The PC board this is all mounted on doesn't need to be any bigger than what is currently in Touch. As to batteries Apple seems willing to charge whatever they want for a battery.
Legacy apps are an interesting issue and there are a number of ways that Apple can deal with them. So screen size means nothing until you have seen the solutuion for legacy apps. More interesting is the aspect of movies. First a legacy app won't be used to play the files back as a new app can address specific hardware resources do do the job. As far as videos specifically encoded to play on an iPhone screen, except for saving space, I see that as a mistake. Better to keep your video in standard formats.
You're right that pocketability is only viable up to 5 inches and as such, in terms of transporting a 7-incher vs. a 10-incher, there is no meaningful difference.
my god you are way off on this one. The best way I have to visualize this is for somebody to get a ruler and an O'Reilly pocket reference. The diagonal on these is a hair over 8 inches, with the ruler laying across the diagonal you can see that a ten inch device is rather hugeand no where near as transportable as even this 8" sized device. A 7" is very pocketable in the same way a paperback is.
A touch-screen tablet at either size point would be amazingly light, certainly much ligher than a typical netbook.
This is the case, provided it is reasonably thin. Frankly it is a key feature if you ask me.
Another point. A tablet is likely to be held closer to your face than a netbook/laptop. As a result, in terms of perspective, a 7" tablet is going to appear similar to a 10" netbook.
I might agree with you but then I've watched people with very small netbooks at hot spots around town. Their faces are often hurried in the screen trying to see what is going on.
I think you may be underestimating the extent to which going with a larger screen impacts on the cost of the resulting product. You need to factor in roughly about an additional $175, if not more, to take a comparable product from 7 inches to 10 inches. That's not pocket change.
I'm not sure where your numbers come from, depending on the avenue taken the only thing that might change is the size of the screen and battery, changes which might not add as much as you think. Especially considering that ten inches is a mass produced screen size.
In addition, I think I missed the part where Apple issued a press release in which they concluded that after checking out assorted form factors, they concluded 7 inches is too small. You are basically assuming that an unsubstantiated rumour about a product that itself has in no way shape or form been confirmed, is a verified fact.
It is a common theme on the forums, people can't distinguish between rumors and released products. Sad really!
Apple is one of the most secretive corporations in the world. They are the leaders in this space and hence want to ensure the competition remains in the dark. Remarkably, people who have no inside knowledge appear to be assuming that they know exactly what Apple is up to, what decisions have been made about unreleased products, etc. If at some point Apple releases a 10-inch tablet, I'm sure they would have sound reasons for doing so. But it's not a confirmed fact that the 10-inch tablet is on its way. That reports that this form factor is imminent have been circulating for years really should be a red flag. Jobs is picky but he's not that picky. Most of the stuff Apple unleashes rumor sites and the like never see coming until maybe it's so close to the release date that it's too late for the competition to respond quickly. I find it unlikely that the competition would be given years worth of advance notice on a brand new product.
I look at it this way the lack of product confirms nothing. I have to disagree though with the scoops that the rumor sights do get. They are real. But recent history shows that almost anything can happen at the last minute.
Myself, I think the next rational move is for Apple to take the Touch to the next level, remaining ballpark in terms of price point. That next level is not a 10-inch tablet. Frankly that's the sort of obvious overkill that is typical of the competition, not Apple.
it is not over kill there are just far fewer reasons to buy such a large device. My great fear is that Apple does go the ten inch route and then calls the whole idea a failure due to lax sales. The potential for a 7" class device is relatively huge, I do hope that Apple realizes that.
I believe cost is a huge issue. No other manufacturer has been able to deliver anything close to a 10-inch tablet form factor for a reasonable price and Apple traditionally has offered products that are more expensive to buy initially.
I have to disagree with the idea that a ten inch device has to be expensive. It doesn't have to be and that price point is governed by the capabilities built into the device. With ARM and the latest 40nm processes Apple can have a huge amount of capability built into the SoC making a given level of capability very cheap.
It should be noted that Flash is what makes the current Touches expensive. Even here prices drop rapidly.
Why not just buy a laptop and be done with it? Maybe a handful of professionals would like to have something like a large touchscreen device but custom orders are not what Apple is about.
Actually for a certain class of users a large Touch screen may be a better choice. That doesn't make for a custom product but rather a low volume one. In that regard it is no different than a Mac Pro vs an iMac. The high volume play though remains in the 7" range.
Right now lots of people are getting all excited about a 10-inch tablet but how many would be prepared to spend close to a grand to buy one. A very small percentage, I think. These days especially financial news is a little scary and most people are not going to be in a hurry to buy a big-ticket item with very limited usability.
I don't think Apple is targetting the $1000 buck range at all. These devices will start at under $500 bucks and yes that is for a ten inch device. Prices will certainly go up from there to support additional flash or some of the new memory tech. Of course we are also talking the basic device here, add in GPS or 3G and cost could soar from there.
The fact is if Apple wants people to see this as an alternative to netbooks it will have to be agressive with pricing. A tiny PC board a big battery and a nice screen should allow for this price point and good margians.
The good news is that this will all be over in a few months. If we approach summer and this 10-incher still hasn't materialized, I doubt there will be anyone left who genuinely thinks the thing is really coming. I do see Apple continuing to innovate with touchscreen technology but my gut feeling is that the rumours we're getting now are largely off the mark. If anything, Apple is letting misinformation find its way into the hands of rumour dispensers to throw off the competition.
I truely doubt that.
Rather than expect a major break from the Touch, an evolutionary next step is more in line with what I think Apple will do next. I'm sure it will disappoint quite a few folks and I also believe that whatever Apple does, it will be well executed. I especially am thinking along those lines in light of Apple now marketing the Touch as a small computer, as opposed to just a glorified media player. This could be where they wanted to take the Touch all along. Next stop, a 5" touch at a similar price point to the current model coming to market before next fall, probably this spring. Such a device would be a sales success and offer an easier transition up to an even bigger unit a few years down the road. By that I mean if you introduce files designed for the bigger screen, those files would be useable with a bigger device later on. In the meantime, the 5" Touch would be compatible with existing App Store apps. A seamless transition that would not cause an awkward transition period during which there would be very limited software available for a bigger form factor. This is exactly how Apple has evolved the iPod to date and I have to ask, if it has worked out brilliantly for them, why would they suddenly opt to operate more like the competition by releasing a product that looks impressive on paper but in the hands of consumers would prove less than satisfying.
you do like to guess here. My guess is that you are wrong but only slightly. I still see Apple shooting for a 7" screen. That would be optimal for transportability and mobile game play.
Game play is a notable feature of Touch and as such Apple needs to keep an eye on this as the right size device could see a huge boost in sales. With Apples recent statements about gaming I see a mid size Touch as a significant possibility. Frankly I makes sense, if Apple is making a gaming play then they need a family of products.
The one great truth here though is that this should be over in a few months. Like you said. The difference is I can see more than a couple of months here as the next great iPod rev is still months off.
Dave
I object to aspersions cast toward bathroom web browsing. Our economy is collapsing, and making poop productive is our last chance at civilization.
Please don't turn this forum into Reddit. That website has become unbearably shallow and immature. Every single comment thread is for cheap laughs. I remember when the site had actual cred. - no longer.
I guess the point to all my ramblings is that I don't buy that Apple has made up its mind necessarily to make a 10-inch tablet its next move.
I think it's a safe bet Apple is exploring its options re touch-screen form factors. But it's not in keeping with how Apple has been operating in recent years to expect them to release a product that isn't really all that well thought out. If this was about putting out a tablet with a 10-inch screen, it would have happened by now.
Right now, I have to say there has been no viable case made for the rumoured 10-inch tablet. So the logical conclusion would be that it's not coming any time soon, if ever. Apple certainly hasn't officially stated it intends to bring this creation to market so if it doesn't get released, they have not failed in any way.
Right now, I have to say there has been no viable case made for the rumoured 10-inch tablet.
Well, not if one is convinced it will be a 7" tablet. I don't see a viable case for anything but a 10" tablet. Seven inches just doesn't differentiate it enough from an iPod Touch, and, because it would have to sell at not much more than a Touch, would likely drive the Touch price down -- i.e., lack of differentiation from existing products wouldn't make sense for Apple.
Ten inches is not exactly a huge size tablet, but it is about trade paperback size, which a) makes for fairly comfortable reading, and b) offers enough screen real estate that you can start to do some very useful work. It's also a very comfortable size for thumb typing if the keyboard is split in half -- that is, if it doesn't extend all the way across but is pulled in half into the corners (sort of like one of those MS ergonomic keyboards), the center space could also be given some new function -- and you start to get to the point that with the keyboard on screen you can still see quite a bit of what it is you are working on.
I don't see any reason why Apple would release anything but a 10" tablet, and it will not simply run iPhone apps stretched out or stuck in little windows. (It may run them, but iPhone OS would only be a subset of the tablet OS).
That'd satisfy my Netbook cravings I think.
A tablet with a little dock at home and optional keyboard to turn it into a little Mac.
That'd satisfy my Netbook cravings I think.
Please drop this argument, it's weak at best. If you think that way just get a MacBook. This product will be a slate and that's it. If you don't like that then get a notebook. I'm not intending to be negative, just realistic. That make-shift solution you are talking about is the most un-Apple thing I've ever heard. It's like people wanting to use a bluetooth keyboard with their iPhone, it's bizarre and extremely geeky - in the bad sense of the term.
I for one want the competition between MS and Apple, since we had no direct competition for long time and this would show, who is an innovator and who is duplicator!
In end the consumer wins (me and millions others).
It seems like most everything Microsoft produces is either significantly modeled after another product, and if they can't do that well... then they just buy up the competition (or try to do so).
IBM developed significant parts of DOS, Excel came out after Lotus 1-2-3 & Visicalc, MS bought Visio, MS tried to buy Quicken when MS Money didn't do that well in the market... the XBox was introduced after Playstation, Dreamcast, & GameCube... and of course there are what seems like zillions of examples of copying Apple ideas.
For the most part, it seems like Microsoft couldn't innovate their way out of a paper bag.
A tablet with a little dock at home and optional keyboard to turn it into a little Mac.
That'd satisfy my Netbook cravings I think.
I had the same dream 6-12 month ago. Then I realized that the tablet will not run Mac OS. Since I wanted to try to develop for iPhone, I got a MacBook instead.
However, I do think that a tablet with a stand (built-in?) and wireless keyboard would cover most people´s (home) computing needs. Surfing the web, managing photos, light word processing - these would all work well on a tablet with iLife and iWork. Plus. of course, the added benefit of mobility within and out of the home.
Also, I would like to bring a couple of other benfits of the iPhone OS.
- Security: As I understand it, the sandbox model for apps makes it inherently more secure than Mac OS.
- User interface: Apart from being touch-based, I think it's a better UI paradigm with the functions/elements visible for the user, instead of being hidden in deep menus.
To sum up, I believe tablet computing based on iPhone OS is the future.
Best,
Daniel