I'll tell you one thing - there will be less switchers now from Verizon now that a Pre or an Android can be pushed in a their face at any Verizon store. Same for corporate accounts.
Verizon is pretty shrewd at this game. They're no sleeping giant like MS. Just look at their new "map" ad.
They are good because they have a good grasp of how to manage a network. They cripple their other phones, so the smartphones have free reign on the data side. So the new additions to their network probably won't bog it down. As an iPhone owner with a wife on Verizon, I'll be sure to jam a Pre or Android into her palm so I can see the difference first hand.
I'll drop my iPhone because of AT&T if the experience is similar, and the price point is competitive. I do, however, have my doubts about an "open" Verizon. It seems contradictory, but we'll see. Maybe Google has the power to change their strategy.
Apple approached Verizon about an exclusive deal for the iPhone. Verizon can't see over the horizon to see how big the iPhone will be and turns it down. The iPhone becomes the best phone EVER. People ditch Verizon (and others) just to get an iPhone. Verizon says "Uh oh, now what do we do?" Verizon starts trying to counter all the iPhone hype: "There may be 75,000 apps out there, but most people only use a few" (this is from my own personal experience when I dropped Verizon when I bought my iPhone). There are lots of excuses that Verizon offered against switching. In the end, I HAVE AN IPHONE!! I will deal with whatever I have to because the iPhone is freaking AWESOME!! Will I switch to Verizon if/when they get the iPhone? Probably, but I wouldn't switch back and NOT have an iPhone PERIOD. You can keep your Android phones and all of those other second and third-rate phones, and I will keep my iPhone. I will deal with dropped calls, smaller 3G coverage areas, but under absolutely NO condition will I go from my iPhone to ANYTHING else. Get the picture, Verizon.
-ego
Yeah, that's about right. I agree with almost everything except the part about switching. Been a satisfied customer of AT&T for 10 years. I have no reason to switch. Coverage in the SFBA is excellent.
Is it a device that you can put whatever App you want?
OK. So, the iPhone is not "open" in that sense. But, do I care if non-approved Apps are all crummy? What about security issues in an "open" device?
Let's have some discussion going about this.
You call Google Voice or Latitude crummy ? Strange.
What security issues you are talking about ? This whole "we need to control every bit of the device otherwise it is completely insecure" is one big steaming heap of BS. Android is open and has no more "security issues" than iPhone has.
I thought Android apps are just like "java" apps and don't have access to the real OS like iPhone Apps do. Pre apps suck as well for this.
It is quite opposite : Android apps have better access to the phone than iPhone. On top of that, it is possible to use multitasking and services, thus some applications are much easier to develop on Android. iPhone will have to change there or it face becoming uncompetitive.
Let's see if Android escapes the fate of Windows. "One OS many devices" eventually runs up against the problem of runaway complexity. Android will get complex enough as the functions demanded of it increases. That complexity increases geometrically when the OS has to support several different devices, each with its own unique characteristics. Just too many moving parts to keep track off. Good luck keeping down the code bloat on Android.
Google will try to address this by publishing a very tight list of phone specs, but they can only go so far with this standardization. What hand set maker wants to sell a phone that is hardly distinguishable from its competitors? So each handset maker will add on their own customized tweaks then it's even worse than Windows. Android would no longer be an OS but a class of OSes. Sorta like Linux as seen by non-geeks. (So there's Ubuntu, and SUSE, and Redhat and what have you and they're all Linux but they're also all different from each other.)
It is interesting that right now Android is more homogenous platform than iPhone. Although there are several devices, all of them are virtually the same from the developers perspective, while all three iPhone models are slightly different : some APIs are missing on the old model and only GS has the compass.
It will sure change in the future as Apple will never release that many devices as Android will see, but right now it is quite a non factor, as Google does pretty good job there.
It is quite opposite : Android apps have better access to the phone than iPhone. On top of that, it is possible to use multitasking and services, thus some applications are much easier to develop on Android. iPhone will have to change there or it face becoming uncompetitive.
really ? the monster itunes and app store compared to what ??
Another annoying comment from annoynymouse with no content.
Annoying to verizon fanbois perhaps. Otherwise it's pretty spot on. I hope verizon subscribers with Android phones thank Apple every time the use their phone because it would have NEVER have happened without something as compelling as th iPhone.
I have to disagree- Apple is always at MS' throat.
MS for the most part pays Apple no mind.
Copying almost EVERYTHING Apple does, spending 300 million in ad $$$ to counter the effectiveness of Apple's ads .... I wouldn't exactly say: "MS for the most part pays Apple no mind"
Teckdud, wipe off your glasses, something is blocking your vision.
It is quite opposite : Android apps have better access to the phone than iPhone. On top of that, it is possible to use multitasking and services, thus some applications are much easier to develop on Android. iPhone will have to change there or it face becoming uncompetitive.
I find it hilarious that folks like Teckstud gets a woody when Verizon has essentially capitulated and surrendered the lucrative income from app sales to 3rd parties and control of the devices themselves to the device makers.
Apple changed the equation so that carriers no longer unilaterally call the shots and device makers now have significant more power in the relationship.
If the carriers aren't just pipes, they're getting pretty close between the iPhone and GV. Boom... another industry upset by the monster apple cart. Hopefully the next stop is the Cable industry...
really ? the monster itunes and app store compared to what ??
buying a phone on empty platform hype is ......
Can you elaborate on how the "monster itunes and app store" relates to how you can access the underlying OS from within your application ? You can do quite a lot of things as Android app developer that are not possible with iPhone and those two things have little to do with it.
And FYI, Android Market (equivalent to AppStore) outsold AppStore at the comparable time frame since the start.
I find it hilarious that folks like Teckstud gets a woody when Verizon has essentially capitulated and surrendered the lucrative income from app sales to 3rd parties and control of the devices themselves to the device makers.
The Android license allows Verizon to fork it and keep the source code private. Motorola's Cliq is Android OS with a lot of proprietary MotoBlur stuff build on top of that and make it as a Facebook and Twitter phone --- and Google doesn't own Facebook nor Twitter. The first thing Verizon can do is put Microsoft Bing as the official search engine for the Verizon Android phones.
The Android license allows Verizon to fork it and keep the source code private. Motorola's Cliq is Android OS with a lot of proprietary MotoBlur stuff build on top of that and make it as a Facebook and Twitter phone --- and Google doesn't own Facebook nor Twitter. The first thing Verizon can do is put Microsoft Bing as the official search engine for the Verizon Android phones.
You mixing two terms. There is one thing, called Android, which is open-source so you can do all the things you just described. Then there is "with Google" phone (kinda stupid name) which is quite strict about how phone should look a work, Only "with Google" phones can have google specific apps, such as Maps or Android Market. Guess Verizon will be "with Google" (given the format of the announcement).
You mixing two terms. There is one thing, called Android, which is open-source so you can do all the things you just described. Then there is "with Google" phone (kinda stupid name) which is quite strict about how phone should look a work, Only "with Google" phones can have google specific apps, such as Maps or Android Market. Guess Verizon will be "with Google" (given the format of the announcement).
I am not mixing the two terms at all (vinea is --- because he automatically assumes that it's the end of the world for the carriers). Everybody has been talking about Cliq --- but it's basically a Facebook/Twitter phone --- not really a Google phone.
Verizon and Google are working together, but it doesn't necessarily means that all those Google proprietary apps are going to make it into the actual handset. You can have a Verizon/Google phone with Google Voice (Google doesn't make money on that), Google Maps (Google doesn't make money on that), Android app marketplace (Google and Verizon are revenue sharing) --- and Verizon can still make Bing the official search engine for the Verizon/Google phone (and search is the main source of revenue for Google).
Nothing has really changed at all. It's just people jumping into the wrong conclusions. When Apple started talking about selling the iphone in Europe, people automatically assumes that Apple's business model would be defeated because of various European simlocking laws --- turns out that those people jumped to the wrong conclusion. When the iphone launch was delayed for a couple of weeks in France because there were specific French laws that forces carriers to give out unlocking codes at the end of 6 months, people automatically assumes that Apple's business model would be defeated --- turns out that those people jumped to the wrong conclusion as well.
I am not mixing the two terms at all (vinea is --- because he automatically assumes that it's the end of the world for the carriers). Everybody has been talking about Cliq --- but it's basically a Facebook/Twitter phone --- not really a Google phone.
Verizon and Google are working together, but it doesn't necessarily means that all those Google proprietary apps are going to make it into the actual handset. You can have a Verizon/Google phone with Google Voice (Google doesn't make money on that), Google Maps (Google doesn't make money on that), Android app marketplace (Google and Verizon are revenue sharing) --- and Verizon can still make Bing the official search engine for the Verizon/Google phone (and search is the main source of revenue for Google).
It is either "with Google" phone, which has the pretty tight specs, all the extra Google API (for developers to use) plus the Google Apps, which are not open source and can't be "just included" as you propose or it is "Android based" phone, which is open source and you can screw it in any way you like. Good explanation (official one) can be found there :
Nothing has really changed at all. It's just people jumping into the wrong conclusions. When Apple started talking about selling the iphone in Europe, people automatically assumes that Apple's business model would be defeated because of various European simlocking laws --- turns out that those people jumped to the wrong conclusion. When the iphone launch was delayed for a couple of weeks in France because there were specific French laws that forces carriers to give out unlocking codes at the end of 6 months, people automatically assumes that Apple's business model would be defeated --- turns out that those people jumped to the wrong conclusion as well.
What is the point of that ? Android came into market later, still plays the catchup game, but plays it IMO very good and in some aspects it is superior offer to iPhone. If Google can keep a tight grip on the standards, the fact it is platform of choice by many operators can't really hurt.
Comments
I'll tell you one thing - there will be less switchers now from Verizon now that a Pre or an Android can be pushed in a their face at any Verizon store. Same for corporate accounts.
Verizon is pretty shrewd at this game. They're no sleeping giant like MS. Just look at their new "map" ad.
They are good because they have a good grasp of how to manage a network. They cripple their other phones, so the smartphones have free reign on the data side. So the new additions to their network probably won't bog it down. As an iPhone owner with a wife on Verizon, I'll be sure to jam a Pre or Android into her palm so I can see the difference first hand.
I'll drop my iPhone because of AT&T if the experience is similar, and the price point is competitive. I do, however, have my doubts about an "open" Verizon. It seems contradictory, but we'll see. Maybe Google has the power to change their strategy.
Apple approached Verizon about an exclusive deal for the iPhone. Verizon can't see over the horizon to see how big the iPhone will be and turns it down. The iPhone becomes the best phone EVER. People ditch Verizon (and others) just to get an iPhone. Verizon says "Uh oh, now what do we do?" Verizon starts trying to counter all the iPhone hype: "There may be 75,000 apps out there, but most people only use a few" (this is from my own personal experience when I dropped Verizon when I bought my iPhone). There are lots of excuses that Verizon offered against switching. In the end, I HAVE AN IPHONE!! I will deal with whatever I have to because the iPhone is freaking AWESOME!! Will I switch to Verizon if/when they get the iPhone? Probably, but I wouldn't switch back and NOT have an iPhone PERIOD. You can keep your Android phones and all of those other second and third-rate phones, and I will keep my iPhone. I will deal with dropped calls, smaller 3G coverage areas, but under absolutely NO condition will I go from my iPhone to ANYTHING else. Get the picture, Verizon.
-ego
Yeah, that's about right. I agree with almost everything except the part about switching. Been a satisfied customer of AT&T for 10 years. I have no reason to switch. Coverage in the SFBA is excellent.
Is it a device that you can put whatever App you want?
OK. So, the iPhone is not "open" in that sense. But, do I care if non-approved Apps are all crummy? What about security issues in an "open" device?
Let's have some discussion going about this.
You call Google Voice or Latitude crummy ? Strange.
What security issues you are talking about ? This whole "we need to control every bit of the device otherwise it is completely insecure" is one big steaming heap of BS. Android is open and has no more "security issues" than iPhone has.
I thought Android apps are just like "java" apps and don't have access to the real OS like iPhone Apps do. Pre apps suck as well for this.
It is quite opposite : Android apps have better access to the phone than iPhone. On top of that, it is possible to use multitasking and services, thus some applications are much easier to develop on Android. iPhone will have to change there or it face becoming uncompetitive.
Let's see if Android escapes the fate of Windows. "One OS many devices" eventually runs up against the problem of runaway complexity. Android will get complex enough as the functions demanded of it increases. That complexity increases geometrically when the OS has to support several different devices, each with its own unique characteristics. Just too many moving parts to keep track off. Good luck keeping down the code bloat on Android.
Google will try to address this by publishing a very tight list of phone specs, but they can only go so far with this standardization. What hand set maker wants to sell a phone that is hardly distinguishable from its competitors? So each handset maker will add on their own customized tweaks then it's even worse than Windows. Android would no longer be an OS but a class of OSes. Sorta like Linux as seen by non-geeks. (So there's Ubuntu, and SUSE, and Redhat and what have you and they're all Linux but they're also all different from each other.)
It is interesting that right now Android is more homogenous platform than iPhone. Although there are several devices, all of them are virtually the same from the developers perspective, while all three iPhone models are slightly different : some APIs are missing on the old model and only GS has the compass.
It will sure change in the future as Apple will never release that many devices as Android will see, but right now it is quite a non factor, as Google does pretty good job there.
Another annoying comment from annoynymouse with no content.
great prose
9
It is quite opposite : Android apps have better access to the phone than iPhone. On top of that, it is possible to use multitasking and services, thus some applications are much easier to develop on Android. iPhone will have to change there or it face becoming uncompetitive.
really ? the monster itunes and app store compared to what ??
buying a phone on empty platform hype is ......
Link so I may watch?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37NKnDRPFKU
Another annoying comment from annoynymouse with no content.
Annoying to verizon fanbois perhaps. Otherwise it's pretty spot on. I hope verizon subscribers with Android phones thank Apple every time the use their phone because it would have NEVER have happened without something as compelling as th iPhone.
I have to disagree- Apple is always at MS' throat.
MS for the most part pays Apple no mind.
Copying almost EVERYTHING Apple does, spending 300 million in ad $$$ to counter the effectiveness of Apple's ads .... I wouldn't exactly say: "MS for the most part pays Apple no mind"
Teckdud, wipe off your glasses, something is blocking your vision.
Yes and that was once in like 25 years?
So is it our fault if MS is slow to "get it" ?
It is quite opposite : Android apps have better access to the phone than iPhone. On top of that, it is possible to use multitasking and services, thus some applications are much easier to develop on Android. iPhone will have to change there or it face becoming uncompetitive.
I love your id "name", so appropriate!
Apple changed the equation so that carriers no longer unilaterally call the shots and device makers now have significant more power in the relationship.
If the carriers aren't just pipes, they're getting pretty close between the iPhone and GV. Boom... another industry upset by the monster apple cart. Hopefully the next stop is the Cable industry...
I love your id "name", so appropriate!
Great reply. Very to the point. Keep them going.
really ? the monster itunes and app store compared to what ??
buying a phone on empty platform hype is ......
Can you elaborate on how the "monster itunes and app store" relates to how you can access the underlying OS from within your application ? You can do quite a lot of things as Android app developer that are not possible with iPhone and those two things have little to do with it.
And FYI, Android Market (equivalent to AppStore) outsold AppStore at the comparable time frame since the start.
I find it hilarious that folks like Teckstud gets a woody when Verizon has essentially capitulated and surrendered the lucrative income from app sales to 3rd parties and control of the devices themselves to the device makers.
The Android license allows Verizon to fork it and keep the source code private. Motorola's Cliq is Android OS with a lot of proprietary MotoBlur stuff build on top of that and make it as a Facebook and Twitter phone --- and Google doesn't own Facebook nor Twitter. The first thing Verizon can do is put Microsoft Bing as the official search engine for the Verizon Android phones.
http://www.businessinsider.com/some-...engine-2009-10
Google is likely going to share revenue with Verizon on the Android app store.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/06/and...ss-google.html
The Android license allows Verizon to fork it and keep the source code private. Motorola's Cliq is Android OS with a lot of proprietary MotoBlur stuff build on top of that and make it as a Facebook and Twitter phone --- and Google doesn't own Facebook nor Twitter. The first thing Verizon can do is put Microsoft Bing as the official search engine for the Verizon Android phones.
http://www.businessinsider.com/some-...engine-2009-10
Google is likely going to share revenue with Verizon on the Android app store.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/06/and...ss-google.html
You mixing two terms. There is one thing, called Android, which is open-source so you can do all the things you just described. Then there is "with Google" phone (kinda stupid name) which is quite strict about how phone should look a work, Only "with Google" phones can have google specific apps, such as Maps or Android Market. Guess Verizon will be "with Google" (given the format of the announcement).
You mixing two terms. There is one thing, called Android, which is open-source so you can do all the things you just described. Then there is "with Google" phone (kinda stupid name) which is quite strict about how phone should look a work, Only "with Google" phones can have google specific apps, such as Maps or Android Market. Guess Verizon will be "with Google" (given the format of the announcement).
I am not mixing the two terms at all (vinea is --- because he automatically assumes that it's the end of the world for the carriers). Everybody has been talking about Cliq --- but it's basically a Facebook/Twitter phone --- not really a Google phone.
Verizon and Google are working together, but it doesn't necessarily means that all those Google proprietary apps are going to make it into the actual handset. You can have a Verizon/Google phone with Google Voice (Google doesn't make money on that), Google Maps (Google doesn't make money on that), Android app marketplace (Google and Verizon are revenue sharing) --- and Verizon can still make Bing the official search engine for the Verizon/Google phone (and search is the main source of revenue for Google).
Nothing has really changed at all. It's just people jumping into the wrong conclusions. When Apple started talking about selling the iphone in Europe, people automatically assumes that Apple's business model would be defeated because of various European simlocking laws --- turns out that those people jumped to the wrong conclusion. When the iphone launch was delayed for a couple of weeks in France because there were specific French laws that forces carriers to give out unlocking codes at the end of 6 months, people automatically assumes that Apple's business model would be defeated --- turns out that those people jumped to the wrong conclusion as well.
I am not mixing the two terms at all (vinea is --- because he automatically assumes that it's the end of the world for the carriers). Everybody has been talking about Cliq --- but it's basically a Facebook/Twitter phone --- not really a Google phone.
Verizon and Google are working together, but it doesn't necessarily means that all those Google proprietary apps are going to make it into the actual handset. You can have a Verizon/Google phone with Google Voice (Google doesn't make money on that), Google Maps (Google doesn't make money on that), Android app marketplace (Google and Verizon are revenue sharing) --- and Verizon can still make Bing the official search engine for the Verizon/Google phone (and search is the main source of revenue for Google).
It is either "with Google" phone, which has the pretty tight specs, all the extra Google API (for developers to use) plus the Google Apps, which are not open source and can't be "just included" as you propose or it is "Android based" phone, which is open source and you can screw it in any way you like. Good explanation (official one) can be found there :
http://android-developers.blogspot.c...r-android.html
Nothing has really changed at all. It's just people jumping into the wrong conclusions. When Apple started talking about selling the iphone in Europe, people automatically assumes that Apple's business model would be defeated because of various European simlocking laws --- turns out that those people jumped to the wrong conclusion. When the iphone launch was delayed for a couple of weeks in France because there were specific French laws that forces carriers to give out unlocking codes at the end of 6 months, people automatically assumes that Apple's business model would be defeated --- turns out that those people jumped to the wrong conclusion as well.
What is the point of that ? Android came into market later, still plays the catchup game, but plays it IMO very good and in some aspects it is superior offer to iPhone. If Google can keep a tight grip on the standards, the fact it is platform of choice by many operators can't really hurt.