I'll give you one clearly, objectively broken thing.
Open TextEdit. Write "minimized" in the window, and then minimize it (with the yellow button). Open a new window. Write "Not minimized" in that window. Then use Command-H to hide TextEdit. Then view "All Windows" in Expose. Notice how the MINIMIZED window shows up in Expose, but the NOT MINIMIZED window does not show up in Expose.
Wow. So that's why Expose is 'broken'?
Do you think if you tried a little harder you could find something even more trivial?
Consistency of design and spatial clues - both part of the Apple HIG - require that windows retain their relative size and scale when in exposé. Snow Leopard exposé breaks both of those rules. Windows change their relative position, change their relative size, and become unreadable. That's inexcusably broken behavior. Whether the majority of people rely on the correct behavior is an irrelevant question. Software design is and should be a meritocracy, not mob rule. If you want what the "majority" seem to think is best, go back to Windows.
Submitted it pre-10.6.1... Here's hoping for a fix in 10.6.2.
Besides, that's minor stuff. If you want a really egregious, unforgivable bug in Snow Leopard, Calculator has got it.
First on my list of piss-offs is that the caret (Shift+6) doesn't do exponentiation like you'd expect. In fact, Shift+6 does the exact opposite; it takes the nth root of something.
Second, it can't parse mathematical expressions correctly. Try calculating 5^2*5^2. (The caret here indicates exponentiation.) On a real scientific calculator (and on Calculator in 10.4 and 10.5), it's parsed as "pow(5,2)*pow(5,2)" and the answer is 625. In Snow Leopard, it's parsed as "pow(pow(5,2)*5,2)" and the answer is 15625.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Climbing up the scale of stupidity, calculator can't even do simple arithmetic anymore. Open the "Paper Tape" window and then calculate 90-2.2. If you have 15-digits of accuracy enabled (which is the default setting), then you'll be quite surprised to learn that the answer is actually 87.799999999999997.
And a final glitch. Open up calculator about 20 times. You'll find that some of those times will have a bright "LCD" and some of those times it will have a dark "LCD".
I'm not going to fire up my Turbo Dimension Cube, but I bet if I did, the calculator in NeXTStep would work fine
Yes. That's the proper behaviour. It's NOT the way the Snow Leopard acts.
So you specifically told the OS to Hide your window, and then don't like it when it doesn't show it to you in Expose? Because of this you 'hate' Expose? Seems unhealthy to me.
I wouldn't (and didn't) even give this a second though. First because I don't even have a use for 'hide' and second, I actually prefer to see all apps, whether they are minimized or not. The SL way seems proper to me. If it's working as designed, then it's not a bug, it's just something you don't like.
So you specifically told the OS to Hide your window, and then don't like it when it doesn't show it to you in Expose? Because of this you 'hate' Expose? Seems unhealthy to me.
I wouldn't (and didn't) even give this a second though. First because I don't even have a use for 'hide' and second, I actually prefer to see all apps, whether they are minimized or not. The SL way seems proper to me. If it's working as designed, then it's not a bug, it's just something you don't like.
I don?t have use for that option either and overall I think it?s a very trival thing so this will be my last post on it, but I think he has a valid point and this should be submitted as a bug. He told the app to hide, not just the open windows. At that point, when Exposé is called either all windows from that hidden yet open app should appear or none at all.
Amiga OS had that capability back in 1991. In some ways, it was a beautiful OS.
The Amiga was the best of both worlds. It was TRULY ahead of it's time. It was just as easy to use as Macintosh, but better than both. It was cheaper too! I guess there just wasn't room for a second proprietary system. I really had not tried Macintosh before I did Windows after the Amiga. When I finally did, I did it because It reminded so much of the simplicity of the Amiga. Icons, Drag and Drop, Delete something by dragging to the Trash. Insert a Disk, it appears.. It was heaven.
It had true MultiTasking, better color management, Great Audio. It was like I said.. Ahead of it's time.
For the last couple of years the Mail rules window will go off the screen when there are more than 25 rules entries... ie filter to a mail box for 25+ mail sources. [snippy snip snip]
Any one else want to try this? Create a rule... enter 25 or more conditions. Then see if the window buttons are visible.
Jim
Yep, they are.
When you're list gets too long, a scroll bar appears (as expected) on the right of the rules list.
So you specifically told the OS to Hide your window, and then don't like it when it doesn't show it to you in Expose? Because of this you 'hate' Expose? Seems unhealthy to me.
Did you actually read what I posted? I'm assuming that you didn't, since that's not what I'm complaining about at all. And I didn't use the word "hate" so I'd prefer if you didn't put it in quotation marks and attribute it to me.
I'm complaining about the exact OPPOSITE of what you've suggested. I'm complaining that "Hide" DOESN'T effectively hide things from Expose, and things that SHOULD be hidden AREN'T. If I minimize a TextEdit document and then "Hide TextEdit", there's absolutely no reason why the minimized window should not be hidden from Expose just like all of the maximized ones.
Did you actually read what I posted? I'm assuming that you didn't, since that's not what I'm complaining about at all. And I didn't use the word "hate" so I'd prefer if you didn't put it in quotation marks and attribute it to me.
I'm complaining about the exact OPPOSITE of what you've suggested. I'm complaining that "Hide" DOESN'T effectively hide things from Expose, and things that SHOULD be hidden AREN'T. If I minimize a TextEdit document and then "Hide TextEdit", there's absolutely no reason why the minimized window should not be hidden from Expose just like all of the maximized ones.
Get it now?
No I don't get it. It doesn't work that way in Leopard either. If it's hidden or minimized, it doesn't show either.
Submitted it pre-10.6.1... Here's hoping for a fix in 10.6.2.
Besides, that's minor stuff. If you want a really egregious, unforgivable bug in Snow Leopard, Calculator has got it.
First on my list of piss-offs is that the caret (Shift+6) doesn't do exponentiation like you'd expect. In fact, Shift+6 does the exact opposite; it takes the nth root of something.
Second, it can't parse mathematical expressions correctly. Try calculating 5^2*5^2. (The caret here indicates exponentiation.) On a real scientific calculator (and on Calculator in 10.4 and 10.5), it's parsed as "pow(5,2)*pow(5,2)" and the answer is 625. In Snow Leopard, it's parsed as "pow(pow(5,2)*5,2)" and the answer is 15625.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Climbing up the scale of stupidity, calculator can't even do simple arithmetic anymore. Open the "Paper Tape" window and then calculate 90-2.2. If you have 15-digits of accuracy enabled (which is the default setting), then you'll be quite surprised to learn that the answer is actually 87.799999999999997.
And a final glitch. Open up calculator about 20 times. You'll find that some of those times will have a bright "LCD" and some of those times it will have a dark "LCD".
on't
I don't frequently use the Mac calculator to that degree anymore; because I either use Excel or my own applications formulae/functions instead.
However, since Snow Leopard, I have used Spotlight for similarly complicated calculations a number of times. Works extremely well if I must say so myself.
My Fuji Xerox DocuPrint 203A is no longer manufactured, but it worked perfectly with Tiger. Now with Snow Leopard the printer fails to function, indicating that a software update is required, but none is available. Will the new version of Snow Leopard allow these old drivers to function with the OS, or will we have to chuck these printers (or revert to Tiger)?
I don't frequently use the Mac calculator to that degree anymore; because I either use Excel or my own applications formulae/functions instead.
However, since Snow Leopard, I have used Spotlight for similarly complicated calculations a number of times. Works extremely well if I must say so myself.
I never use the Hide app option so I would never have come across that feature, but I agree that it?s bad design. Either the whole app should be hidden from Exposé or all windows should show up in Exposé. This seems like something that should be submitted to Apple. Thanks for the clear example.
See, I actually want hidden windows to be completely ignored by expose, I hide them because they are things like e-mail or Safari that have one window & I'd never use the expose feature on them.
Expose for me is mostly all windows to switch between apps, or I use the per app expose on Finder.
Everyone is going to have a little different preference, for me I'm glad it operates to my own. Sorry folks.
See, I actually want hidden windows to be completely ignored by expose, I hide them because they are things like e-mail or Safari that have one window & I'd never use the expose feature on them.
Expose for me is mostly all windows to switch between apps, or I use the per app expose on Finder.
Everyone is going to have a little different preference, for me I'm glad it operates to my own. Sorry folks.
But this is exactly the point. You don't hide windows; you hide an application. (Notice that the menu says "Hide Firefox", "Hide Safari", etc., not "Hide This Window".)
What we're saying is that we want exactly what you want: hidden applications should be completely ignored by Expose. You shouldn't see any of a hidden application's windows in Expose's "All Windows" view--minimized windows of the hidden application should also be hidden.
Again, try the demo I laid out, and tell me if you think Expose's behaviour makes ANY intuitive sense:
1) Open TextEdit.
2) Write "MINIMIZED" in the document.
3) Minimize the window using the yellow button in the top left corner.
4) Hit Command+N to open a new TextEdit document.
5) Write "NOT MINIMIZED" in this document.
6) Hit Command+H to hide the application.
7) Activate Expose's "All Windows" view.
You'll see that the minimized document appears, but the other document does not. The problem is that I don't want EITHER of them to appear--that's why I hid the application.
If maximized windows of hidden applications don't appear in Expose, then minimized windows of hidden applications sure as hell shouldn't either. Expose's behaviour at present makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
"Keep ALL of a hidden application's windows out of Expose!" is what we're saying.
When reports of a new OS X point release start circulating you can bet your 401K that threads like this one will quickly devolve into arguments over what is a bug and what is not. It seems everyone thinks their pet issue is experienced by every other user and is therefore known to all. Then come the "I hope Apple fixes this" comments followed immediately by the "It's not broke, it's your broken system" replies. The comments that are the funniest are the ones accusing Apple of not fixing something because they are incompetent. It's all so predictable but entertaining as well. We're all guilty of this behavior from time to time. The fact is none of us really know what the heck is going on. Only the software engineers at Apple do and maybe not all the time either. I, for one, continue to be amazed that computers do what they do at all.
Comments
I'll give you one clearly, objectively broken thing.
Open TextEdit. Write "minimized" in the window, and then minimize it (with the yellow button). Open a new window. Write "Not minimized" in that window. Then use Command-H to hide TextEdit. Then view "All Windows" in Expose. Notice how the MINIMIZED window shows up in Expose, but the NOT MINIMIZED window does not show up in Expose.
Wow. So that's why Expose is 'broken'?
Do you think if you tried a little harder you could find something even more trivial?
Submitted it pre-10.6.1... Here's hoping for a fix in 10.6.2.
Besides, that's minor stuff. If you want a really egregious, unforgivable bug in Snow Leopard, Calculator has got it.
First on my list of piss-offs is that the caret (Shift+6) doesn't do exponentiation like you'd expect. In fact, Shift+6 does the exact opposite; it takes the nth root of something.
Second, it can't parse mathematical expressions correctly. Try calculating 5^2*5^2. (The caret here indicates exponentiation.) On a real scientific calculator (and on Calculator in 10.4 and 10.5), it's parsed as "pow(5,2)*pow(5,2)" and the answer is 625. In Snow Leopard, it's parsed as "pow(pow(5,2)*5,2)" and the answer is 15625.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Climbing up the scale of stupidity, calculator can't even do simple arithmetic anymore. Open the "Paper Tape" window and then calculate 90-2.2. If you have 15-digits of accuracy enabled (which is the default setting), then you'll be quite surprised to learn that the answer is actually 87.799999999999997.
And a final glitch. Open up calculator about 20 times. You'll find that some of those times will have a bright "LCD" and some of those times it will have a dark "LCD".
I'm not going to fire up my Turbo Dimension Cube, but I bet if I did, the calculator in NeXTStep would work fine
Yes. That's the proper behaviour. It's NOT the way the Snow Leopard acts.
So you specifically told the OS to Hide your window, and then don't like it when it doesn't show it to you in Expose? Because of this you 'hate' Expose? Seems unhealthy to me.
I wouldn't (and didn't) even give this a second though. First because I don't even have a use for 'hide' and second, I actually prefer to see all apps, whether they are minimized or not. The SL way seems proper to me. If it's working as designed, then it's not a bug, it's just something you don't like.
So you specifically told the OS to Hide your window, and then don't like it when it doesn't show it to you in Expose? Because of this you 'hate' Expose? Seems unhealthy to me.
I wouldn't (and didn't) even give this a second though. First because I don't even have a use for 'hide' and second, I actually prefer to see all apps, whether they are minimized or not. The SL way seems proper to me. If it's working as designed, then it's not a bug, it's just something you don't like.
I don?t have use for that option either and overall I think it?s a very trival thing so this will be my last post on it, but I think he has a valid point and this should be submitted as a bug. He told the app to hide, not just the open windows. At that point, when Exposé is called either all windows from that hidden yet open app should appear or none at all.
...and I say this because OS X, unlike Windows, behaves in a "document-centric" mode instead of "application-centric" mode.
I think you have that backwards.
Has Apple addressed the crashing of Adobe CS4 yet?
Wrong question. Correct question is
Has Adobe addressed the crashing of Adobe CS4 yet?
Has Apple addressed the crashing of Adobe CS4 yet?
Wrong question. Correct question is
Has Adobe addressed the crashing of Adobe CS4 yet?
I?m under the impression that all should be working fine...
Amiga OS had that capability back in 1991. In some ways, it was a beautiful OS.
The Amiga was the best of both worlds. It was TRULY ahead of it's time. It was just as easy to use as Macintosh, but better than both. It was cheaper too! I guess there just wasn't room for a second proprietary system. I really had not tried Macintosh before I did Windows after the Amiga. When I finally did, I did it because It reminded so much of the simplicity of the Amiga. Icons, Drag and Drop, Delete something by dragging to the Trash. Insert a Disk, it appears.. It was heaven.
It had true MultiTasking, better color management, Great Audio. It was like I said.. Ahead of it's time.
For the last couple of years the Mail rules window will go off the screen when there are more than 25 rules entries... ie filter to a mail box for 25+ mail sources. [snippy snip snip]
Any one else want to try this? Create a rule... enter 25 or more conditions. Then see if the window buttons are visible.
Jim
Yep, they are.
When you're list gets too long, a scroll bar appears (as expected) on the right of the rules list.
It's safe to get in the water again.
Why would you even be thinking that they would add new features to non major releases?
The have in the past (minor UI tweaks, new glide pad gestures, Boot Camp, Safari, and I can go on) . Have you been on the Mac platform that long?
So you specifically told the OS to Hide your window, and then don't like it when it doesn't show it to you in Expose? Because of this you 'hate' Expose? Seems unhealthy to me.
Did you actually read what I posted? I'm assuming that you didn't, since that's not what I'm complaining about at all. And I didn't use the word "hate" so I'd prefer if you didn't put it in quotation marks and attribute it to me.
I'm complaining about the exact OPPOSITE of what you've suggested. I'm complaining that "Hide" DOESN'T effectively hide things from Expose, and things that SHOULD be hidden AREN'T. If I minimize a TextEdit document and then "Hide TextEdit", there's absolutely no reason why the minimized window should not be hidden from Expose just like all of the maximized ones.
Get it now?
Did you actually read what I posted? I'm assuming that you didn't, since that's not what I'm complaining about at all. And I didn't use the word "hate" so I'd prefer if you didn't put it in quotation marks and attribute it to me.
I'm complaining about the exact OPPOSITE of what you've suggested. I'm complaining that "Hide" DOESN'T effectively hide things from Expose, and things that SHOULD be hidden AREN'T. If I minimize a TextEdit document and then "Hide TextEdit", there's absolutely no reason why the minimized window should not be hidden from Expose just like all of the maximized ones.
Get it now?
No I don't get it. It doesn't work that way in Leopard either. If it's hidden or minimized, it doesn't show either.
Submitted it pre-10.6.1... Here's hoping for a fix in 10.6.2.
Besides, that's minor stuff. If you want a really egregious, unforgivable bug in Snow Leopard, Calculator has got it.
First on my list of piss-offs is that the caret (Shift+6) doesn't do exponentiation like you'd expect. In fact, Shift+6 does the exact opposite; it takes the nth root of something.
Second, it can't parse mathematical expressions correctly. Try calculating 5^2*5^2. (The caret here indicates exponentiation.) On a real scientific calculator (and on Calculator in 10.4 and 10.5), it's parsed as "pow(5,2)*pow(5,2)" and the answer is 625. In Snow Leopard, it's parsed as "pow(pow(5,2)*5,2)" and the answer is 15625.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Climbing up the scale of stupidity, calculator can't even do simple arithmetic anymore. Open the "Paper Tape" window and then calculate 90-2.2. If you have 15-digits of accuracy enabled (which is the default setting), then you'll be quite surprised to learn that the answer is actually 87.799999999999997.
And a final glitch. Open up calculator about 20 times. You'll find that some of those times will have a bright "LCD" and some of those times it will have a dark "LCD".
on't
I don't frequently use the Mac calculator to that degree anymore; because I either use Excel or my own applications formulae/functions instead.
However, since Snow Leopard, I have used Spotlight for similarly complicated calculations a number of times. Works extremely well if I must say so myself.
If anybody hasn't tried it, just enter a calculation in Spotlight. You don't even have to hit the equal sign. http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...d%2Bcalculator
on't
I don't frequently use the Mac calculator to that degree anymore; because I either use Excel or my own applications formulae/functions instead.
However, since Snow Leopard, I have used Spotlight for similarly complicated calculations a number of times. Works extremely well if I must say so myself.
If anybody hasn't tried it, just enter a calculation in Spotlight. You don't even have to hit the equal sign. http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...d%2Bcalculator
Spotlight does Bueller_007 calculation example (5^2*5^2 = 625) correctly.
I never use the Hide app option so I would never have come across that feature, but I agree that it?s bad design. Either the whole app should be hidden from Exposé or all windows should show up in Exposé. This seems like something that should be submitted to Apple. Thanks for the clear example.
See, I actually want hidden windows to be completely ignored by expose, I hide them because they are things like e-mail or Safari that have one window & I'd never use the expose feature on them.
Expose for me is mostly all windows to switch between apps, or I use the per app expose on Finder.
Everyone is going to have a little different preference, for me I'm glad it operates to my own.
See, I actually want hidden windows to be completely ignored by expose, I hide them because they are things like e-mail or Safari that have one window & I'd never use the expose feature on them.
Expose for me is mostly all windows to switch between apps, or I use the per app expose on Finder.
Everyone is going to have a little different preference, for me I'm glad it operates to my own.
But this is exactly the point. You don't hide windows; you hide an application. (Notice that the menu says "Hide Firefox", "Hide Safari", etc., not "Hide This Window".)
What we're saying is that we want exactly what you want: hidden applications should be completely ignored by Expose. You shouldn't see any of a hidden application's windows in Expose's "All Windows" view--minimized windows of the hidden application should also be hidden.
Again, try the demo I laid out, and tell me if you think Expose's behaviour makes ANY intuitive sense:
1) Open TextEdit.
2) Write "MINIMIZED" in the document.
3) Minimize the window using the yellow button in the top left corner.
4) Hit Command+N to open a new TextEdit document.
5) Write "NOT MINIMIZED" in this document.
6) Hit Command+H to hide the application.
7) Activate Expose's "All Windows" view.
You'll see that the minimized document appears, but the other document does not. The problem is that I don't want EITHER of them to appear--that's why I hid the application.
If maximized windows of hidden applications don't appear in Expose, then minimized windows of hidden applications sure as hell shouldn't either. Expose's behaviour at present makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
"Keep ALL of a hidden application's windows out of Expose!" is what we're saying.