Closing the book on Apple's Mac mini

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  • Reply 541 of 570
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,710member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iDave View Post


    Apple doesn't do market research.



    Link



    I don't believe it. It doesn't matter how many times they say it. They may not have a major market research department as many other companies do, but they must do some.
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  • Reply 542 of 570
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,710member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jowie74 View Post


    Although I'm not a particular advocate of the xMac, I guess the point is perceived extra value. If Janet and John go to their local PC World, they'll look at the PC and think that for less money they can buy a machine and upgrade it when they have a bit more money. The fact they probably never will doesn't really matter.



    This is a very big point that I've been trying to make for a long time. It doesn't matter if people won't mod their machines. They want to believe that they may.





    It's the same reason why, over the years, people would buy Nikons, or Canons. The excuse would be that they have much better, and larger lens lines. But these people rarely would buy anything other than the basic lenses. The fact that they COULD buy the expensive lenses made them feel more important though.



    It's different with pros. Those of us involved in a profession where we need more, buy more. But, if we aren't, we deceive ourselves into thinking that we are more professional if we have more professional equipment.
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  • Reply 543 of 570
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    At Citigroup, where my wife works, they have done both to her machines over the years.



    And, no, they don't want a Mini.



    What is the mini missing that CG needs in a workstation?



    Just asking. Not trying to start a fight.
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  • Reply 544 of 570
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,710member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    What is the mini missing that CG needs in a workstation?



    Just asking. Not trying to start a fight.



    No, but like most businesses, they buy medium priced towers that THEY can fix when they go wrong. Apple is out on two counts there. They have no towers like that, and they don't authorize companies to repair their own machines.



    They do add their own network cards, and sometimes spec a specific graphics card and HDD.
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  • Reply 545 of 570
    dhagan4755dhagan4755 Posts: 2,152member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No, but like most businesses, they buy medium priced towers that THEY can fix when they go wrong. Apple is out on two counts there. They have no towers like that, and they don't authorize companies to repair their own machines.



    If Apple remedied this by making the Mac mini user-serviceable like I mentioned earlier today, would that satisfy "most businesses"?
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  • Reply 546 of 570
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,710member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post


    If Apple remedied this by making the Mac mini user-serviceable like I mentioned earlier today, would that satisfy "most businesses"?



    No it wouldn't.
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  • Reply 547 of 570
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post


    If Apple remedied this by making the Mac mini user-serviceable like I mentioned earlier today, would that satisfy "most businesses"?



    it also needs to be better priced next to other desktops.
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  • Reply 548 of 570
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,910member
    I keep thinking that I’d like the Mini, but when I start adding a keyboard, mouse, monitor, and more memory, it gets into the price range of an iMac – which has better specs. Then I stop and think I don’t want an AIO. I go round and round with this until I make myself crazy and I want to go back to a PC. No, I don’t. It has Windows, not OS X. I WANT an Apple OS. I want an xMac which Apple probably will never make.

    Scr__ you, Apple, I’ll make do with my 800 G4 Tiger which you didn’t see fit to make Leopard work with.



    I’ve convinced several in my family and some friends to switch to a Mac and I praise it.

    I only wish Apple was as loyal to me as I am to Apple.
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  • Reply 549 of 570
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sequitur View Post


    I keep thinking that I?d like the Mini, but when I start adding a keyboard, mouse, monitor, and more memory, it gets into the price range of an iMac ? which has better specs. Then I stop and think I don?t want an AIO. I go round and round with this until I make myself crazy and I want to go back to a PC. No, I don?t. It has Windows, not OS X. I WANT an Apple OS. I want an xMac which Apple probably will never make.

    Scr__ you, Apple, I?ll make do with my 800 G4 Tiger which you didn?t see fit to make Leopard work with.



    You, sir, are part of a very large group I think.
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  • Reply 550 of 570
    jowie74jowie74 Posts: 540member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post


    If Apple remedied this by making the Mac mini user-serviceable like I mentioned earlier today, would that satisfy "most businesses"?



    I think it would take more than that to completely rectify the situation (price is a big factor too) but it would go some way to satisfying some businesses yes.
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  • Reply 551 of 570
    jowie74jowie74 Posts: 540member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sequitur View Post


    I keep thinking that I?d like the Mini, but when I start adding a keyboard, mouse, monitor, and more memory, it gets into the price range of an iMac ? which has better specs.



    Here's a sober question for you then... Imagine tomorrow Apple released an update to the Mac mini. Its specs are:



    Penryn Core 2 Duo, 2.1 GHz

    Intel GMA X3100 graphics

    Super Drive

    160GB 5400rpm HD

    1GB RAM (up to 4GB)

    801.11n, Bluetooth

    $599 / £399



    Penryn Dore 2 Duo, 2.4 GHz

    Intel GMA X3100 graphics

    DL Super Drive

    250GB 5400rpm HD

    2GB RAM (up to 4GB)

    801.11n, Bluetooth

    $799 / £499



    The casing and internal layout have also been changed so that both the RAM and HD can be swapped with a few screws.



    So... Do you buy now?
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  • Reply 552 of 570
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,710member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sequitur View Post


    I keep thinking that I?d like the Mini, but when I start adding a keyboard, mouse, monitor, and more memory, it gets into the price range of an iMac ? which has better specs. Then I stop and think I don?t want an AIO. I go round and round with this until I make myself crazy and I want to go back to a PC. No, I don?t. It has Windows, not OS X. I WANT an Apple OS. I want an xMac which Apple probably will never make.

    Scr__ you, Apple, I?ll make do with my 800 G4 Tiger which you didn?t see fit to make Leopard work with.



    I?ve convinced several in my family and some friends to switch to a Mac and I praise it.

    I only wish Apple was as loyal to me as I am to Apple.



    There are ways to get Leopard to work with your machine.



    Format and install the OS in another machine, or put it into an external drive case and do it. then put it back into your machine. That works.
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  • Reply 553 of 570
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,710member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jowie74 View Post


    Here's a sober question for you then... Imagine tomorrow Apple released an update to the Mac mini. Its specs are:



    Penryn Core 2 Duo, 2.1 GHz

    Intel GMA X3100 graphics

    Super Drive

    160GB 5400rpm HD

    1GB RAM (up to 4GB)

    801.11n, Bluetooth

    $599 / £399



    Penryn Dore 2 Duo, 2.4 GHz

    Intel GMA X3100 graphics

    DL Super Drive

    250GB 5400rpm HD

    2GB RAM (up to 4GB)

    801.11n, Bluetooth

    $799 / £499



    The casing and internal layout have also been changed so that both the RAM and HD can be swapped with a few screws.



    So... Do you buy now?



    If you add at least $100 to each of those prices, you would be closer to a real world possibility. Possible even $125 to $150.
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  • Reply 554 of 570
    jowie74jowie74 Posts: 540member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    If you add at least $100 to each of those prices, you would be closer to a real world possibility. Possible even $125 to $150.



    I think the prices are a near definite. They hardly ever change the price range of an existing product. More likely is that the specs I mentioned are a little high, although they are perfectly in line with the MacBook updates.



    Slightly slower chips, 120GB drive on the base model maybe, but I can't see Combo Drive being sold any more (unless I'm naive!). If they up the price however I'd be rather fuming, as I'm sure a lot of other people would be.
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  • Reply 555 of 570
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,710member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jowie74 View Post


    I think the prices are a near definite. They hardly ever change the price range of an existing product. More likely is that the specs I mentioned are a little high, although they are perfectly in line with the MacBook updates.



    Slightly slower chips, 120GB drive on the base model maybe, but I can't see Combo Drive being sold any more (unless I'm naive!). If they up the price however I'd be rather fuming, as I'm sure a lot of other people would be.



    For your specs, the prices would have to be higher.
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  • Reply 556 of 570
    jowie74jowie74 Posts: 540member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    For your specs, the prices would have to be higher.



    What specs would you expect for those prices then?
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  • Reply 557 of 570
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,710member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jowie74 View Post


    What specs would you expect for those prices then?





    I haven't looked at the equivalent parts to what is now being offered, so I honestly can't give you numbers yet. But, the parts you listed are more expensive than those Apple is presently using. Whatever specs Apple would move to, the parts supplied would have to cost no more.
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  • Reply 558 of 570
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    sorry guys, but posters like us on websites like this just aren't typical. we are not typical home consumers, and we are not typical business buyers either. it is just not about the specs for the vast majority.



    the Mini's specs are fine for general business desktop use. power using, hot graphics, etc. just are not needed there. but the price is not OK. they are used to buying whitebox PC's and loading XP for about 1/2 the price of the MIni. Apple would have to offer big bulk purchase discounts to compete with that mindset. but it doesn't. yes, the Macs last longer and take less IT time to keep running, but that doesn't show up in a single year's budget, whereas the one-time extra costs of adding Macs does. in business, it's all about dollars, not specs.



    home consumers are looking for features they want to use first, subjective factors like style and ease of use next, and then comparing prices. iLife sells a lot of Macs. style sells a lot of Macs (the Mini's small size and neatness is very appealing to some). OS X's ease of use sells a lot of Macs. but specs don't.



    we here are among the 10%-20% or so who really do care about specs and technical software considerations. but as a consumer product company, Apple isn't designing Mini's for guys like us. we'll never be completely happy with the Mini. and that isn't going to change, so just go with it gracefully ...



    that said, the Mini is a great little medium priced general purpose computer. and show me a PC at ANY price that can run both Leopard and Vista (in fact, with its built in Windows driver support, Boot Camp runs Vista better than most PC's).



    that makes it one of the greatest computers of all time.
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  • Reply 559 of 570
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Even while at the top of its game, Apple Inc. can seemingly find faults with just about anything, including a bit of itself. The Mac maker is constantly evaluating the market segments in which it wishes to participate and those which it does not. It's an application of love-hate methodology that inevitably produces its share of casualties.



    Take, for instance, the firm's petite line of headless desktop computers known as Mac minis. They retail between $599 and $799, catering to the once critical sub-$800 PC market. Conspicuously, it was that precise market segment in which Apple executives asserted little interest just months before introducing the first Mac mini at the Macworld trade show in January of 2005. Maybe management wasn't fibbing after all.



    Since then, the Mac mini has been treated to a rather mundane life-cycle. It has seen just four updates since inception, one of which was so insignificant in Apple's own eyes that the company didn't even bother to draft a press release. Even now, the current minis' 1.66GHz and 1.83GHz Core Duo processors are a far cry from the silicon offered in the rest of Apple's PC offerings. And rightfully so, as the company has seen lower margins from the units, which never gained the sales traction of its more fully equipped iMacs and MacBooks.



    Some have gone so far as to call the mini Apple's bastard child; the neglected Mac that never was. At the same time, the history behind its creation and the reasons for its seeming abandonment are comparatively fuzzy. There is some speculation that Apple conceived the Mac mini under pressure from shareholders who wanted a sub-$800 Mac, but never really saw much in the design itself. It's almost as if the mini stood in direct contrast to Apple's fundamentals from the get-go.



    In at least one instance, during the winter months of 2005 and early 2006, Apple began toying with concepts to more closely tie the mini to the essential nature of its business. The most public of those, per AppleInsider reports, was a plan to include a built-in iPod dock atop the high-end models. But just like every other bright idea Apple had for the tiny Mac, it was shelved and transformed under more economical standards into a project that would eventually emerge as Apple TV.



    In fact, it was about that time in early 2006 when Apple TV really began to take shape inside Apple and the development of the mini began its slow, inevitable decline. Not coincidentally, Apple TV turned out a lot like a next-generation mini, with the stripping-out of the optical disc drive representing the essence of Apple's long-term digital media strategy.







    Still, the mini has had its share of selling points. Due to its small footprint and low cost, it was immediately nominated by seasoned techies as the perfect media server for the living room. Some even went as far as installing the the tiny Mac in their vehicles. But with the advent of Apple TV, Apple seems to have shoved the diminutive device into the far corner of what had already been a niche audience.



    Therefore, it comes as little surprise that sources, for whom AppleInsider holds the utmost respect, are now pointing towards the mini's impending demise. For it's according to those people that the miniature Mac will soon follow in the wake of its similarly-proportioned counterparts of years past: the PowerBook 2400, the PowerMac G4 Cube, and, most recently, the 12-inch PowerBook.



    Whether Apple will squeeze another revision from the mini, and how long it plans to allow existing models to linger, are both unclear. But as the extended Memorial Day break dawns upon us, the point being driven should be clear:



    Ladies and gentlemen, AppleInsider believes in all sincerity that the Mac mini is dead.



    I sincerely believe you are wrong
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  • Reply 560 of 570
    cubitcubit Posts: 846member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drumrobot View Post


    I sincerely believe you are wrong



    Indeed, that AppleInsider post was put up 05-24-2007, 10:11 AM



    Shows what comes from looking into the crystal ball. And I say that as someone who purchased all of the above, except that 12" powerbook-- I did buy the PowerBook 100 "by Sony", though...
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