the first macbook air was very unique, however, which its size came small limitations on the hardware due to power consumption. beyond email, typing up docs, and basic internet, the video card power lacked... A LOT. video stuttered, and was very choppy.
im pretty sure he knows the difference in a typewritter and a macbook air. the difference is, and i think what he was trying to make, is that the first gen air wasnt really good for much more than typing.
He's trying to assert that the MBA was a flop. If that were true Apple would have dropped it from the lineup instead of refreshing it over time. I love my first gen MBA. I wish it had better cooling so it could handle video conferencing, but other than that it does everything else I need in the perfect size (big screen, low weight).
thank you for doing my spoon feeding to the underling
I just don't have the time or patience
I'm still waiting for your supporting documentation that the Air is some sort of unmitigated disaster for Apple. Otherwise your opinion comes across as whiny. The fact that it is still available is strong evidence that you aren't right.
My gut feeling is that the Air is sort of a wash. It probably hasn't met sales expectations, but is unlikely to have lost a ton of money either. It certainly gave Apple experience with technology that has become wildly successful, like the unibody frame and battery technologies, which has more than paid off for its R&D costs.
And exactly where do you buy a Mac 7- 10" form factor?
It's not for nothing that this size has been selling so well besides being cheap- people like the size, the portability which Apple has failed to offer. Apple tried to convince people that they really wanted thin as in MacBook Air - the public responded differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jukes
And oh so ugly.
Ugly? They are fantastic. And mostly, they are rock practical: so light and so pocketable. I wish Apple had something like that. Meanwhile, the hackintosh is the only alternative. Shame!
He's trying to assert that the MBA was a flop. If that were true Apple would have dropped it from the lineup instead of refreshing it over time. I love my first gen MBA. I wish it had better cooling so it could handle video conferencing, but other than that it does everything else I need in the perfect size (big screen, low weight).
i would wager to say the first MBA didnt do as well they hoped, hence the refreshes to tweak some of the glaring issues, such as the video card.
Apple doesn't differentiate between its portables when reporting profits, so it's likely that neither of these positions can be substantiated, though if either of you have a real reference I'd like to see it. I have a first generation Air and I've never really been happy with its crappy Intel graphics, but I love its look and feel. I expect the 9400M versions are sweet.
I don't have hard data because as you say Apple doesn't break it out. Regardless of that everything I've said is true.
If you want to research it, (I'm not going to do it for you), check into customer service/satisfaction reports, ask someone who works (or has worked) at an Apple store or ask the customers that bought them.
For example I work at a large concern with hundreds of laptops being bought in an average year. Some buy the Air (although most go for the MacBook Pro), and overall they've been reliable machines that the users just *love*. if I had a nickel for every time an Air owner filled the room with effusive praise for the things, I'd be rich.
I've heard pretty much the same from other people in similar situations to myself. I have never heard of nor experienced myself anything like what happened when the G4 Cube, or any of Apple's less reliably designed computers came out. If the Air was a broken flop as teckstud seems to think, we'd certainly know by now. The people that buy them, generally love them and sales appear to be a significant portion of Apple's portable market.
The problem is only that perception is driven by tech sites like this one and techies generally want something with more horsepower. I couldn't use one myself as it would seem too slow to me, especially the video thing that you mention. "teckstud's" reaction is classic in this regard in that he doesn't seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer and often mouths opinions right out of the news without seemingly thinking for himself. He's also a pretty negative guy and seems to be constantly seeking affirmation, so he probably reads a lot of the negative stuff on Giz or Engadget, believe's it's true, and regurgitates it here so as to get the occasional pat on the head from a stranger. Very sad actually.
So when your whole world is internet rumours and tech web sites, you may get the idea that the Air is some kind of "bad deal." But out there in the real world, buy them regularly and are far from disappointed with what they get.
I think the onus is really on the people who keep insisting that "it sucks" to kind of prove how that can be if people keep buying it. Especially when it's more expensive than most other computers of it's type.
I'm still waiting for your supporting documentation that the Air is some sort of unmitigated disaster for Apple. Otherwise your opinion comes across as whiny. The fact that it is still available is strong evidence that you aren't right.
My gut feeling is that the Air is sort of a wash. It probably hasn't met sales expectations, but is unlikely to have lost a ton of money either. It certainly gave Apple experience with technology that has become wildly successful, like the unibody frame and battery technologies, which has more than paid off for its R&D costs.
I never said it was "some sort of unmitigated disaster for Apple". I'm sure it sold very well among Apple devotees (note my refusal to use the word fanboy today). But the fact remains that netbooks appeal due to their form factor in addition to their price. That's all- don't be so negative.
I don't have hard data because as you say Apple doesn't break it out. Regardless of that everything I've said is true.
If you want to research it, (I'm not going to do it for you), check into customer service/satisfaction reports, ask someone who works (or has worked) at an Apple store or ask the customers that bought them.
For example I work at a large concern with hundreds of laptops being bought in an average year. Some buy the Air (although most go for the MacBook Pro), and overall they've been reliable machines that the users just *love*. if I had a nickel for every time an Air owner filled the room with effusive praise for the things, I'd be rich.
I've heard pretty much the same from other people in similar situations to myself. I have never heard of nor experienced myself anything like what happened when the G4 Cube, or any of Apple's less reliably designed computers came out. If the Air was a broken flop as teckstud seems to think, we'd certainly know by now. The people that buy them, generally love them and sales appear to be a significant portion of Apple's portable market.
The problem is only that perception is driven by tech sites like this one and techies generally want something with more horsepower. I couldn't use one myself as it would seem too slow to me, especially the video thing that you mention. "teckstud's" reaction is classic in this regard in that he doesn't seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer and often mouths opinions right out of the news without seemingly thinking for himself. He's also a pretty negative guy and seems to be constantly seeking affirmation, so he probably reads a lot of the negative stuff on Giz or Engadget, believe's it's true, and regurgitates it here so as to get the occasional pat on the head from a stranger. Very sad actually.
So when your whole world is internet rumours and tech web sites, you may get the idea that the Air is some kind of "bad deal." But out there in the real world, buy them regularly and are far from disappointed with what they get.
I think the onus is really on the people who keep insisting that "it sucks" to kind of prove how that can be if people keep buying it. Especially when it's more expensive than most other computers of it's type.
No you wouldn't know by now- just like you don't know that the AppleTV has flopped as Fortune magazine claims in their latest issue.
And you speak from a warped Apple zealot perpective anyway- totally biased and unrealistic . Who's SAD?
You whole reason for living is that Apple tells you what you need and you never think otherwise.
Hackintoshes require neither pirating or illegal distribution of software, so I doubt the link causes any problems. This isn't to say that there aren't people out there who obtain pirated copies of OS X and install it on their hackintoshes, just that there are lots of people who purchase the retail copy and install it.
Hackintoshes do require violating Apple's EULA, a separate issue. This is likely a problem in the US, but there may be many countries where Apple's EULA is invalid for whatever reason.
Fair enough. Then I assume that discussion about how to break/circumvent copy protection inspite of EULAs is alright? You can't simply pop an OS X DVD into a hackintosh drive and have it boot like a regular Mac. We're talking about hacking software here or modifying it.
Ugly? They are fantastic. And mostly, they are rock practical: so light and so pocketable. I wish Apple had something like that. Meanwhile, the hackintosh is the only alternative. Shame!
I would prefer some more powerful like the Sony TT notebooks myself- but the size is the key. Shame.
Because Apple does not offer such a great Mac, which is as light as possible, as small as possible, with video-out and USB 2 and Intel Atom.
Porsche doesn't make a $20 K sports car, either. Does that give me the right to steal one from their lot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jukes
Hackintoshes require neither pirating or illegal distribution of software, so I doubt the link causes any problems. This isn't to say that there aren't people out there who obtain pirated copies of OS X and install it on their hackintoshes, just that there are lots of people who purchase the retail copy and install it.
Did you read Judge Alsup's ruling? Hacking OS X to run on generic hardware is a violation of the EULA as well as DMCA and is therefore illegal. Whether you do it in your own home or a factory is illegal. So, by definition, ALL Hackintoshes are using illegal software.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx
Absolutely right. We want a light and small Mac. The MacBook Air is too heavy and too large. See the UMID and Viliv out there (315 g and pocketable!).
Apple doesn't make a piece of junk with a tiny screen. Live with it.
The fact that you don't like Apple's products doesn't give you the right to illegally use Apple's OS.
In any event, all the crying from the hackintosh community was for nothing. They solved the problem on their own.
And isn't this discussion about piracy and warez now? (correct me if I'm wrong.)
They’ve added AMD support, I think they can make a custom kernel or use the one that was in 10.6.1 to get Atom support back. It’s not like any one was jonesing to update from 10.6.1 to 10.6.2. The idea that Apple purposely set out to hurt the OSx86 Project after all this time, only with 10.6.2 and only with Atom processors was just so stupid.
Quote:
(Reposting my explanation from one of the earlier OMFG apple hates hackintosh articles on another site. Shows how easy this fix actually was. Also shows how a simple program logic cleanup turned into the blogosphere catching on fire.)
I decided to browse through the kernel code in 10.6.2 (now that it’s out), and here is what I found.
What specifically “killed” the Atom is in xnu-1486.2.11/osfmk/i386/cpuid.c, around lines 600.
In the past, the kernel would check if the CPU family was 6, and if the model number was higher then 13. This basically means any Intel CPU newer then the Pentium M – Dothan (used in the Apple TV) was supported.
The new code now specifically checks for family 13, 14 (Yonah), 15 (Merom), 23 (Penryn), 26 (Nehalem), 30 (Fields), 31 (Dales), and 46 (Nehalem_EX). The Atom is 28, so it doesn’t pass the check, and hits code at line 649 that panics with “Unsupported CPU”.
Interestingly, in xnu-1486.2.11/osfmk/i386/cpuid.h, code was added to define families 28, 30, 31 and 46. Even though the kernel now panics with 28, “CPUID_MODEL_ATOM” is defined where it wasn’t before.
I can’t say for certain why the change was made, but to me, it was a rework of a previous flawed check (is CPU family 13 or higher), and replaced it with one that checks for exactly what the kernel wants. There is a decent bit of code in the kernel that is optimized specifically for certain processors, so it makes sense to improve the high level checks.
Oh, and there is a comment in cpuid.c that says “suck it atom hackers”.
(Certain parts of this post in regards to code comments may or may not be true).
PS: I can see our vacation is over. AI’s irritable bowel syndrome is back in full effect ruining every forum he touches. I implore you, do your part to clean up AppleInsider forums: User CP » Edit Ignore List » Teckstud. If reply to him then having him ignored does nothing.
This is so stupid! If you like Mac OS X so much, why not buy a mac, instead of buying a piece of sh*t netbook.
Maybe because some of us don't want to carry our 15" $1,700 Macbook Pros with us to school and on the bus? My netbook running Leopard (which I bought, not downloaded) can do everything I need faster than all my friends Windows laptops.
When the iSlate comes out, it may well make me replace my netbook, but for now my OSX netbook does exactly what it needs to do.
Maybe because some of us don't want to carry our 15" $1,700 Macbook Pros with us to school and on the bus? My netbook running Leopard (which I bought, not downloaded) can do everything I need faster than all my friends Windows laptops.
When the iSlate comes out, it may well make me replace my netbook, but for now my OSX netbook does exactly what it needs to do.
In NYC the subways are full of netbooks being used by students. Their textbooks alone are heavy enough. I totally understand why these sell so well. They are perfect for general educational purposes.
Comments
sigh
the first macbook air was very unique, however, which its size came small limitations on the hardware due to power consumption. beyond email, typing up docs, and basic internet, the video card power lacked... A LOT. video stuttered, and was very choppy.
im pretty sure he knows the difference in a typewritter and a macbook air. the difference is, and i think what he was trying to make, is that the first gen air wasnt really good for much more than typing.
He's trying to assert that the MBA was a flop. If that were true Apple would have dropped it from the lineup instead of refreshing it over time. I love my first gen MBA. I wish it had better cooling so it could handle video conferencing, but other than that it does everything else I need in the perfect size (big screen, low weight).
thank you for doing my spoon feeding to the underling
I just don't have the time or patience
I'm still waiting for your supporting documentation that the Air is some sort of unmitigated disaster for Apple. Otherwise your opinion comes across as whiny. The fact that it is still available is strong evidence that you aren't right.
My gut feeling is that the Air is sort of a wash. It probably hasn't met sales expectations, but is unlikely to have lost a ton of money either. It certainly gave Apple experience with technology that has become wildly successful, like the unibody frame and battery technologies, which has more than paid off for its R&D costs.
Absolutely right. We want a light and small Mac. The MacBook Air is too heavy and too large. See the UMID and Viliv out there (315 g and pocketable!).
And oh so ugly.
And exactly where do you buy a Mac 7- 10" form factor?
It's not for nothing that this size has been selling so well besides being cheap- people like the size, the portability which Apple has failed to offer. Apple tried to convince people that they really wanted thin as in MacBook Air - the public responded differently.
And oh so ugly.
Ugly? They are fantastic. And mostly, they are rock practical: so light and so pocketable. I wish Apple had something like that. Meanwhile, the hackintosh is the only alternative. Shame!
He's trying to assert that the MBA was a flop. If that were true Apple would have dropped it from the lineup instead of refreshing it over time. I love my first gen MBA. I wish it had better cooling so it could handle video conferencing, but other than that it does everything else I need in the perfect size (big screen, low weight).
i would wager to say the first MBA didnt do as well they hoped, hence the refreshes to tweak some of the glaring issues, such as the video card.
Apple doesn't differentiate between its portables when reporting profits, so it's likely that neither of these positions can be substantiated, though if either of you have a real reference I'd like to see it. I have a first generation Air and I've never really been happy with its crappy Intel graphics, but I love its look and feel. I expect the 9400M versions are sweet.
I don't have hard data because as you say Apple doesn't break it out. Regardless of that everything I've said is true.
If you want to research it, (I'm not going to do it for you), check into customer service/satisfaction reports, ask someone who works (or has worked) at an Apple store or ask the customers that bought them.
For example I work at a large concern with hundreds of laptops being bought in an average year. Some buy the Air (although most go for the MacBook Pro), and overall they've been reliable machines that the users just *love*. if I had a nickel for every time an Air owner filled the room with effusive praise for the things, I'd be rich.
I've heard pretty much the same from other people in similar situations to myself. I have never heard of nor experienced myself anything like what happened when the G4 Cube, or any of Apple's less reliably designed computers came out. If the Air was a broken flop as teckstud seems to think, we'd certainly know by now. The people that buy them, generally love them and sales appear to be a significant portion of Apple's portable market.
The problem is only that perception is driven by tech sites like this one and techies generally want something with more horsepower. I couldn't use one myself as it would seem too slow to me, especially the video thing that you mention. "teckstud's" reaction is classic in this regard in that he doesn't seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer and often mouths opinions right out of the news without seemingly thinking for himself. He's also a pretty negative guy and seems to be constantly seeking affirmation, so he probably reads a lot of the negative stuff on Giz or Engadget, believe's it's true, and regurgitates it here so as to get the occasional pat on the head from a stranger. Very sad actually.
So when your whole world is internet rumours and tech web sites, you may get the idea that the Air is some kind of "bad deal." But out there in the real world, buy them regularly and are far from disappointed with what they get.
I think the onus is really on the people who keep insisting that "it sucks" to kind of prove how that can be if people keep buying it. Especially when it's more expensive than most other computers of it's type.
I'm still waiting for your supporting documentation that the Air is some sort of unmitigated disaster for Apple. Otherwise your opinion comes across as whiny. The fact that it is still available is strong evidence that you aren't right.
My gut feeling is that the Air is sort of a wash. It probably hasn't met sales expectations, but is unlikely to have lost a ton of money either. It certainly gave Apple experience with technology that has become wildly successful, like the unibody frame and battery technologies, which has more than paid off for its R&D costs.
I never said it was "some sort of unmitigated disaster for Apple". I'm sure it sold very well among Apple devotees (note my refusal to use the word fanboy today). But the fact remains that netbooks appeal due to their form factor in addition to their price. That's all- don't be so negative.
I don't have hard data because as you say Apple doesn't break it out. Regardless of that everything I've said is true.
If you want to research it, (I'm not going to do it for you), check into customer service/satisfaction reports, ask someone who works (or has worked) at an Apple store or ask the customers that bought them.
For example I work at a large concern with hundreds of laptops being bought in an average year. Some buy the Air (although most go for the MacBook Pro), and overall they've been reliable machines that the users just *love*. if I had a nickel for every time an Air owner filled the room with effusive praise for the things, I'd be rich.
I've heard pretty much the same from other people in similar situations to myself. I have never heard of nor experienced myself anything like what happened when the G4 Cube, or any of Apple's less reliably designed computers came out. If the Air was a broken flop as teckstud seems to think, we'd certainly know by now. The people that buy them, generally love them and sales appear to be a significant portion of Apple's portable market.
The problem is only that perception is driven by tech sites like this one and techies generally want something with more horsepower. I couldn't use one myself as it would seem too slow to me, especially the video thing that you mention. "teckstud's" reaction is classic in this regard in that he doesn't seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer and often mouths opinions right out of the news without seemingly thinking for himself. He's also a pretty negative guy and seems to be constantly seeking affirmation, so he probably reads a lot of the negative stuff on Giz or Engadget, believe's it's true, and regurgitates it here so as to get the occasional pat on the head from a stranger. Very sad actually.
So when your whole world is internet rumours and tech web sites, you may get the idea that the Air is some kind of "bad deal." But out there in the real world, buy them regularly and are far from disappointed with what they get.
I think the onus is really on the people who keep insisting that "it sucks" to kind of prove how that can be if people keep buying it. Especially when it's more expensive than most other computers of it's type.
No you wouldn't know by now- just like you don't know that the AppleTV has flopped as Fortune magazine claims in their latest issue.
And you speak from a warped Apple zealot perpective anyway- totally biased and unrealistic . Who's SAD?
You whole reason for living is that Apple tells you what you need and you never think otherwise.
Hackintoshes require neither pirating or illegal distribution of software, so I doubt the link causes any problems. This isn't to say that there aren't people out there who obtain pirated copies of OS X and install it on their hackintoshes, just that there are lots of people who purchase the retail copy and install it.
Hackintoshes do require violating Apple's EULA, a separate issue. This is likely a problem in the US, but there may be many countries where Apple's EULA is invalid for whatever reason.
Fair enough. Then I assume that discussion about how to break/circumvent copy protection inspite of EULAs is alright? You can't simply pop an OS X DVD into a hackintosh drive and have it boot like a regular Mac. We're talking about hacking software here or modifying it.
Ugly? They are fantastic. And mostly, they are rock practical: so light and so pocketable. I wish Apple had something like that. Meanwhile, the hackintosh is the only alternative. Shame!
I would prefer some more powerful like the Sony TT notebooks myself- but the size is the key. Shame.
Because Apple does not offer such a great Mac, which is as light as possible, as small as possible, with video-out and USB 2 and Intel Atom.
Porsche doesn't make a $20 K sports car, either. Does that give me the right to steal one from their lot?
Hackintoshes require neither pirating or illegal distribution of software, so I doubt the link causes any problems. This isn't to say that there aren't people out there who obtain pirated copies of OS X and install it on their hackintoshes, just that there are lots of people who purchase the retail copy and install it.
Did you read Judge Alsup's ruling? Hacking OS X to run on generic hardware is a violation of the EULA as well as DMCA and is therefore illegal. Whether you do it in your own home or a factory is illegal. So, by definition, ALL Hackintoshes are using illegal software.
Absolutely right. We want a light and small Mac. The MacBook Air is too heavy and too large. See the UMID and Viliv out there (315 g and pocketable!).
Apple doesn't make a piece of junk with a tiny screen. Live with it.
The fact that you don't like Apple's products doesn't give you the right to illegally use Apple's OS.
No you wouldn't know by now- just like you don't know that the AppleTV has flopped as Fortune magazine claims in their latest issue.
And you speak from a warped Apple zealot perpective anyway- totally biased and unrealistic . Who's SAD?
You whole reason for living is that Apple tells you what you need and you never think otherwise.
AppleTV! I've told you before this example is L-A-M-E. It will take you nowhere. Try again. Now staying on-topic. Can you try that?
Apple doesn't make a piece of junk with a tiny screen. Live with it.
AppleTV!
No- that's a piece of junk without a screen.
No- that's a piece of junk without a screen.
You always bite. Easy to lure!
You always bite. Easy to lure!
What? Is this fortunecookie.com?
What? Is this fortunecookie.com?
No, it is catchatroll.org
In any event, all the crying from the hackintosh community was for nothing. They solved the problem on their own.
And isn't this discussion about piracy and warez now? (correct me if I'm wrong.)
They’ve added AMD support, I think they can make a custom kernel or use the one that was in 10.6.1 to get Atom support back. It’s not like any one was jonesing to update from 10.6.1 to 10.6.2. The idea that Apple purposely set out to hurt the OSx86 Project after all this time, only with 10.6.2 and only with Atom processors was just so stupid.
(Reposting my explanation from one of the earlier OMFG apple hates hackintosh articles on another site. Shows how easy this fix actually was. Also shows how a simple program logic cleanup turned into the blogosphere catching on fire.)
I decided to browse through the kernel code in 10.6.2 (now that it’s out), and here is what I found.
What specifically “killed” the Atom is in xnu-1486.2.11/osfmk/i386/cpuid.c, around lines 600.
In the past, the kernel would check if the CPU family was 6, and if the model number was higher then 13. This basically means any Intel CPU newer then the Pentium M – Dothan (used in the Apple TV) was supported.
The new code now specifically checks for family 13, 14 (Yonah), 15 (Merom), 23 (Penryn), 26 (Nehalem), 30 (Fields), 31 (Dales), and 46 (Nehalem_EX). The Atom is 28, so it doesn’t pass the check, and hits code at line 649 that panics with “Unsupported CPU”.
Interestingly, in xnu-1486.2.11/osfmk/i386/cpuid.h, code was added to define families 28, 30, 31 and 46. Even though the kernel now panics with 28, “CPUID_MODEL_ATOM” is defined where it wasn’t before.
I can’t say for certain why the change was made, but to me, it was a rework of a previous flawed check (is CPU family 13 or higher), and replaced it with one that checks for exactly what the kernel wants. There is a decent bit of code in the kernel that is optimized specifically for certain processors, so it makes sense to improve the high level checks.
Oh, and there is a comment in cpuid.c that says “suck it atom hackers”.
(Certain parts of this post in regards to code comments may or may not be true).
PS: I can see our vacation is over. AI’s irritable bowel syndrome is back in full effect ruining every forum he touches. I implore you, do your part to clean up AppleInsider forums: User CP » Edit Ignore List » Teckstud. If reply to him then having him ignored does nothing.
This is so stupid! If you like Mac OS X so much, why not buy a mac, instead of buying a piece of sh*t netbook.
Maybe because some of us don't want to carry our 15" $1,700 Macbook Pros with us to school and on the bus? My netbook running Leopard (which I bought, not downloaded) can do everything I need faster than all my friends Windows laptops.
When the iSlate comes out, it may well make me replace my netbook, but for now my OSX netbook does exactly what it needs to do.
Maybe because some of us don't want to carry our 15" $1,700 Macbook Pros with us to school and on the bus? My netbook running Leopard (which I bought, not downloaded) can do everything I need faster than all my friends Windows laptops.
When the iSlate comes out, it may well make me replace my netbook, but for now my OSX netbook does exactly what it needs to do.
In NYC the subways are full of netbooks being used by students. Their textbooks alone are heavy enough. I totally understand why these sell so well. They are perfect for general educational purposes.
No, it is catchatroll.org
Catch any yet?