PS: I can see out vacation is over. AI’s irritable bowel syndrome is back i full effect ruining every forum he touches. I implore you, do your part to clean up AppleInsider forums: User CP » Edit Ignore List » Teckstud.
Don't you love how he keeps telling you all to put me on your ignore list (even to stoop to adding it to his signature) yet he keeps reading my every post. He simply can't resist.
It really chugs with video decoding though, any kind of HD video is unwatchable.
That's interesting. My MSI Wind does fine playing 720p video with VLC under 10.5.6. Yes, you can argue that it's displaying lower resolution, but it's still having to decode the full resolution video.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Porsche doesn't make a $20 K sports car, either. Does that give me the right to steal one from their lot?
Poor analogy. You steal a Porsche or even a Hyundai and nobody else can buy it. You hack a netbook, there's still a Macbook for someone else to buy if they want it.
That's interesting. My MSI Wind does fine playing 720p video with VLC under 10.5.6. Yes, you can argue that it's displaying lower resolution, but it's still having to decode the full resolution video.
VLC has no HW aceleration, but I don't think Atom has any either. I could get 720p in VLC to play on my Wind but Hulu 480p had issues.
That's interesting. My MSI Wind does fine playing 720p video with VLC under 10.5.6. Yes, you can argue that it's displaying lower resolution, but it's still having to decode the full resolution video.
Maybe he's trying to watch flash content - you're MSI Wind wouldn't have those issues. I've heard iChat ran terribly on that first gen as well. .
Porsche doesn't make a $20 K sports car, either. Does that give me the right to steal one from their lot?
Did you read Judge Alsup's ruling? Hacking OS X to run on generic hardware is a violation of the EULA as well as DMCA and is therefore illegal. Whether you do it in your own home or a factory is illegal. So, by definition, ALL Hackintoshes are using illegal software.
Apple doesn't make a piece of junk with a tiny screen. Live with it.
The fact that you don't like Apple's products doesn't give you the right to illegally use Apple's OS.
You do not get it. We are not talking about price here, but about weigh and size. Some of such tiny full computers sell for 3,000 USD. They are top engineering works of art (see OQO, for instance). I would pay even 6,000 USD for a Mac like that, so light and pocketable. And it is not to work on it, but just to carry it on the pocket for Keynote and PowerPoint presentations.
Fair enough. Then I assume that discussion about how to break/circumvent copy protection inspite of EULAs is alright? You can't simply pop an OS X DVD into a hackintosh drive and have it boot like a regular Mac. We're talking about hacking software here or modifying it.
In fact, you can just pop an OS X DVD into a hakintosh and have it boot like a regular mac. Google "retail snow leopard installation guide" and there are many, many different hand-holding tutorials about how to make this work.
Now obviously there's some preparation needed before the "pop it into the drive" step, but it's unrelated to any copyright/copy protection issues. As far as I can determine, installing OS X from a retail DVD onto your own computer really is just a case of breaking the EULA. Reselling this system to your neighbor starts to infringe on Apple's rights, so I'd avoid that.
I don't have hard data because as you say Apple doesn't break it out. Regardless of that everything I've said is true.
What's true? That the Air has been a commercial success? You can't substantiate that by people saying that they like their Airs. You can only substantiate that through knowledge of the manufacturing/R&D costs for the Air, and Apple's expectations for the sale of Airs, which they haven't given out.
I am personally inclined to think that Air sales have been somewhat disappointing for Apple, but in no way disastrous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
I think the onus is really on the people who keep insisting that "it sucks" to kind of prove how that can be if people keep buying it. Especially when it's more expensive than most other computers of it's type.
I'm not saying it sucks as a computer, though there is no doubt that the pre-9400M is pretty pathetic. You just seem to claim that it's been very successful, which I was hoping was based on real data rather than just a hunch.
In fact, you can just pop an OS X DVD into a hakintosh and have it boot like a regular mac. Google "retail snow leopard installation guide" and there are many, many different hand-holding tutorials about how to make this work.
Now obviously there's some preparation needed before the "pop it into the drive" step, but it's unrelated to any copyright/copy protection issues. As far as I can determine, installing OS X from a retail DVD onto your own computer really is just a case of breaking the EULA. Reselling this system to your neighbor starts to infringe on Apple's rights, so I'd avoid that.
Breaking the EULA *is* infringement. Apple's EULA was recently upheld in court, in fact, after a long string of EULAs being upheld.
Breaking the EULA *is* infringement. Apple's EULA was recently upheld in court, in fact, after a long string of EULAs being upheld.
correct. breaking the EULA is infringement and its even worse when you break it, then sell the product for money.
EDIT: i wonder if you pieced together all the supported hardware to the exact stuff apple supports and tried to install the OS, would it change anything and allow you to install stuff normally? like say i got the motherboard they support, the intel chip, the vid card, everything cept a case and PSU
That's interesting. My MSI Wind does fine playing 720p video with VLC under 10.5.6. Yes, you can argue that it's displaying lower resolution, but it's still having to decode the full resolution video.
Poor analogy. You steal a Porsche or even a Hyundai and nobody else can buy it. You hack a netbook, there's still a Macbook for someone else to buy if they want it.
Yet you're taking something that doesn't belong to you - Mac OS X. You don't even have a valid license to use it.
If you don't like that analogy, try this one:
You rent a car for a moth with a 300 mile limit and rules that say you can't take it out of the country. You drive 10,000 miles throughout North and Central America. You then return the car. You violated the rules.
Or, how about this one: you get a copy of Microsoft Windows 7 licensed by your school (I believe that's as low as $5 at some schools). You then use it in your business. Clear violation.
The court's ruling says that EULAs are valid and you are in violation of both the EULA and DMCA by using it as you suggest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx
You do not get it. We are not talking about price here, but about weigh and size. Some of such tiny full computers sell for 3,000 USD. They are top engineering works of art (see OQO, for instance). I would pay even 6,000 USD for a Mac like that, so light and pocketable. And it is not to work on it, but just to carry it on the pocket for Keynote and PowerPoint presentations.
I couldn't care less if it's $0.01 or $10 million. OS X is Apple's product and they have the right to license it the way they want. They have chosen to enter some segments and not others. If you don't like that, your only legal (and moral, to everyone except the 'we're entitled to have whatever we want no matter who disagrees with us' generation) option is to either buy a computer with a different OS or build your own OS.
Apple has decided that the market isn't worth their effort. You do not have the option to override that decision - unless you plan to buy 51% of Apple's stock.
Did you read Judge Alsup's ruling? Hacking OS X to run on generic hardware is a violation of the EULA as well as DMCA and is therefore illegal.
Yes. It's unclear that this ruling is directly applicable to individuals using an "unhacked" (i.e., retail edition) version of OS X on their personal computer. It's also unclear that some of this decision isn't relative to the seemingly pathetic job Psystar put into defending itself... not that it could necessarily have one. Finally, it is unclear that this is relevant in any way outside of the US, where a large percentage of the hackintosh community exists.
It is clear that people living in the US that install OS X on non-apple branded hardware are violating the EULA. It's also possible that some of the tools used to prepare a PC for OS X installation are derived from copyrighted Apple tools, but without a more specific opinion (i.e., personal use of a legally purchased license) I'd be hesitant to classify this as "warez" or "piracy," at least in the way these terms are generally meant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
The fact that you don't like Apple's products doesn't give you the right to illegally use Apple's OS.
Hackintoshes require neither pirating or illegal distribution of software, so I doubt the link causes any problems. This isn't to say that there aren't people out there who obtain pirated copies of OS X and install it on their hackintoshes, just that there are lots of people who purchase the retail copy and install it.
Allow me to ask you your estimate of the percentage of "hackintosh" users who have bought a full retail copy of Mac OS X.
Yes. It's unclear that this ruling is directly applicable to individuals using an "unhacked" (i.e., retail edition) version of OS X on their personal computer. It's also unclear that some of this decision isn't relative to the seemingly pathetic job Psystar put into defending itself... not that it could necessarily have one. Finally, it is unclear that this is relevant in any way outside of the US, where a large percentage of the hackintosh community exists.
I agree that outside the US, the legality is unclear, although EULAs have been upheld in most countries, so there's a good chance Apple will prevail. They might have to put 'UPGRADE' or parts of the EULA on the box in some countries, but even that isn't clear.
In the U.S., though, it's crystal clear. The court ruled decisively that Psystar's actions violated both the EULA and the DMCA - and that the EULA was valid. While the average Hackintosh person isn't going to use a mini as a source to copy the files from, that was only one of the issues Alsup cited. The entire process was found to be illegal. Read the ruling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1
Allow me to ask you your estimate of the percentage of "hackintosh" users who have bought a full retail copy of Mac OS X.
Zero. There is no such thing.
The EULA specifically states that the retail version can only be used on Macintosh computers, so it is an upgrade, not a full version. Since the EULA has been upheld, that statement now has the force of law.
Allow me to ask you your estimate of the percentage of "hackintosh" users who have bought a full retail copy of Mac OS X.
OK. Obviously there is no way to know precisely, but I would say that most of the traffic on the snow leopard forum at insanelymac.com is in reference to the retail DVD... so say 60-80%? Completely uneducated of course.
Leopard was worse because of its cost and its hardware constraints.
I should point out that the Psystar ruling was Leopard specific as well, and did not address snow leopard.
And exactly where do you buy a Mac 7- 10" form factor?
It's not for nothing that this size has been selling so well besides being cheap- people like the size, the portability which Apple has failed to offer. Apple tried to convince people that they really wanted thin as in MacBook Air - the public responded differently.
Everything I've read indicates people don't really "like" their netbooks. The majority have been bought on price.
Question... If Apple comes out with a netbook or tablet, will you change your stance on supporting the 'hackintosh' concept for netbooks? After all, your claim is based on Apple not currently offering such a product.
Comments
Catch any yet?
Caught, you mean?
PS: I can see out vacation is over. AI’s irritable bowel syndrome is back i full effect ruining every forum he touches. I implore you, do your part to clean up AppleInsider forums: User CP » Edit Ignore List » Teckstud.
Don't you love how he keeps telling you all to put me on your ignore list (even to stoop to adding it to his signature) yet he keeps reading my every post. He simply can't resist.
Caught, you mean?
Dunno- Where is your hand right now?
Dunno- Where is your hand right now?
he kinda got you there.
you're a troll fishing for other trolls.
he kinda got you there.
you're a troll fishing for other trolls.
Kinda?
whatever
you're a troll fishing for other trolls.
A meta-troll!
It really chugs with video decoding though, any kind of HD video is unwatchable.
That's interesting. My MSI Wind does fine playing 720p video with VLC under 10.5.6. Yes, you can argue that it's displaying lower resolution, but it's still having to decode the full resolution video.
Porsche doesn't make a $20 K sports car, either. Does that give me the right to steal one from their lot?
Poor analogy. You steal a Porsche or even a Hyundai and nobody else can buy it. You hack a netbook, there's still a Macbook for someone else to buy if they want it.
That's interesting. My MSI Wind does fine playing 720p video with VLC under 10.5.6. Yes, you can argue that it's displaying lower resolution, but it's still having to decode the full resolution video.
VLC has no HW aceleration, but I don't think Atom has any either. I could get 720p in VLC to play on my Wind but Hulu 480p had issues.
That's interesting. My MSI Wind does fine playing 720p video with VLC under 10.5.6. Yes, you can argue that it's displaying lower resolution, but it's still having to decode the full resolution video.
Maybe he's trying to watch flash content - you're MSI Wind wouldn't have those issues. I've heard iChat ran terribly on that first gen as well. .
Porsche doesn't make a $20 K sports car, either. Does that give me the right to steal one from their lot?
Did you read Judge Alsup's ruling? Hacking OS X to run on generic hardware is a violation of the EULA as well as DMCA and is therefore illegal. Whether you do it in your own home or a factory is illegal. So, by definition, ALL Hackintoshes are using illegal software.
Apple doesn't make a piece of junk with a tiny screen. Live with it.
The fact that you don't like Apple's products doesn't give you the right to illegally use Apple's OS.
You do not get it. We are not talking about price here, but about weigh and size. Some of such tiny full computers sell for 3,000 USD. They are top engineering works of art (see OQO, for instance). I would pay even 6,000 USD for a Mac like that, so light and pocketable. And it is not to work on it, but just to carry it on the pocket for Keynote and PowerPoint presentations.
Fair enough. Then I assume that discussion about how to break/circumvent copy protection inspite of EULAs is alright? You can't simply pop an OS X DVD into a hackintosh drive and have it boot like a regular Mac. We're talking about hacking software here or modifying it.
In fact, you can just pop an OS X DVD into a hakintosh and have it boot like a regular mac. Google "retail snow leopard installation guide" and there are many, many different hand-holding tutorials about how to make this work.
Now obviously there's some preparation needed before the "pop it into the drive" step, but it's unrelated to any copyright/copy protection issues. As far as I can determine, installing OS X from a retail DVD onto your own computer really is just a case of breaking the EULA. Reselling this system to your neighbor starts to infringe on Apple's rights, so I'd avoid that.
I don't have hard data because as you say Apple doesn't break it out. Regardless of that everything I've said is true.
What's true? That the Air has been a commercial success? You can't substantiate that by people saying that they like their Airs. You can only substantiate that through knowledge of the manufacturing/R&D costs for the Air, and Apple's expectations for the sale of Airs, which they haven't given out.
I am personally inclined to think that Air sales have been somewhat disappointing for Apple, but in no way disastrous.
I think the onus is really on the people who keep insisting that "it sucks" to kind of prove how that can be if people keep buying it. Especially when it's more expensive than most other computers of it's type.
I'm not saying it sucks as a computer, though there is no doubt that the pre-9400M is pretty pathetic. You just seem to claim that it's been very successful, which I was hoping was based on real data rather than just a hunch.
In fact, you can just pop an OS X DVD into a hakintosh and have it boot like a regular mac. Google "retail snow leopard installation guide" and there are many, many different hand-holding tutorials about how to make this work.
Now obviously there's some preparation needed before the "pop it into the drive" step, but it's unrelated to any copyright/copy protection issues. As far as I can determine, installing OS X from a retail DVD onto your own computer really is just a case of breaking the EULA. Reselling this system to your neighbor starts to infringe on Apple's rights, so I'd avoid that.
Breaking the EULA *is* infringement. Apple's EULA was recently upheld in court, in fact, after a long string of EULAs being upheld.
Breaking the EULA *is* infringement. Apple's EULA was recently upheld in court, in fact, after a long string of EULAs being upheld.
correct. breaking the EULA is infringement and its even worse when you break it, then sell the product for money.
EDIT: i wonder if you pieced together all the supported hardware to the exact stuff apple supports and tried to install the OS, would it change anything and allow you to install stuff normally? like say i got the motherboard they support, the intel chip, the vid card, everything cept a case and PSU
That's interesting. My MSI Wind does fine playing 720p video with VLC under 10.5.6. Yes, you can argue that it's displaying lower resolution, but it's still having to decode the full resolution video.
Poor analogy. You steal a Porsche or even a Hyundai and nobody else can buy it. You hack a netbook, there's still a Macbook for someone else to buy if they want it.
Yet you're taking something that doesn't belong to you - Mac OS X. You don't even have a valid license to use it.
If you don't like that analogy, try this one:
You rent a car for a moth with a 300 mile limit and rules that say you can't take it out of the country. You drive 10,000 miles throughout North and Central America. You then return the car. You violated the rules.
Or, how about this one: you get a copy of Microsoft Windows 7 licensed by your school (I believe that's as low as $5 at some schools). You then use it in your business. Clear violation.
The court's ruling says that EULAs are valid and you are in violation of both the EULA and DMCA by using it as you suggest.
You do not get it. We are not talking about price here, but about weigh and size. Some of such tiny full computers sell for 3,000 USD. They are top engineering works of art (see OQO, for instance). I would pay even 6,000 USD for a Mac like that, so light and pocketable. And it is not to work on it, but just to carry it on the pocket for Keynote and PowerPoint presentations.
I couldn't care less if it's $0.01 or $10 million. OS X is Apple's product and they have the right to license it the way they want. They have chosen to enter some segments and not others. If you don't like that, your only legal (and moral, to everyone except the 'we're entitled to have whatever we want no matter who disagrees with us' generation) option is to either buy a computer with a different OS or build your own OS.
Apple has decided that the market isn't worth their effort. You do not have the option to override that decision - unless you plan to buy 51% of Apple's stock.
Did you read Judge Alsup's ruling? Hacking OS X to run on generic hardware is a violation of the EULA as well as DMCA and is therefore illegal.
Yes. It's unclear that this ruling is directly applicable to individuals using an "unhacked" (i.e., retail edition) version of OS X on their personal computer. It's also unclear that some of this decision isn't relative to the seemingly pathetic job Psystar put into defending itself... not that it could necessarily have one. Finally, it is unclear that this is relevant in any way outside of the US, where a large percentage of the hackintosh community exists.
It is clear that people living in the US that install OS X on non-apple branded hardware are violating the EULA. It's also possible that some of the tools used to prepare a PC for OS X installation are derived from copyrighted Apple tools, but without a more specific opinion (i.e., personal use of a legally purchased license) I'd be hesitant to classify this as "warez" or "piracy," at least in the way these terms are generally meant.
The fact that you don't like Apple's products doesn't give you the right to illegally use Apple's OS.
Don't get me wrong, I love Apple's products.
Hackintoshes require neither pirating or illegal distribution of software, so I doubt the link causes any problems. This isn't to say that there aren't people out there who obtain pirated copies of OS X and install it on their hackintoshes, just that there are lots of people who purchase the retail copy and install it.
Allow me to ask you your estimate of the percentage of "hackintosh" users who have bought a full retail copy of Mac OS X.
Yes. It's unclear that this ruling is directly applicable to individuals using an "unhacked" (i.e., retail edition) version of OS X on their personal computer. It's also unclear that some of this decision isn't relative to the seemingly pathetic job Psystar put into defending itself... not that it could necessarily have one. Finally, it is unclear that this is relevant in any way outside of the US, where a large percentage of the hackintosh community exists.
I agree that outside the US, the legality is unclear, although EULAs have been upheld in most countries, so there's a good chance Apple will prevail. They might have to put 'UPGRADE' or parts of the EULA on the box in some countries, but even that isn't clear.
In the U.S., though, it's crystal clear. The court ruled decisively that Psystar's actions violated both the EULA and the DMCA - and that the EULA was valid. While the average Hackintosh person isn't going to use a mini as a source to copy the files from, that was only one of the issues Alsup cited. The entire process was found to be illegal. Read the ruling.
Allow me to ask you your estimate of the percentage of "hackintosh" users who have bought a full retail copy of Mac OS X.
Zero. There is no such thing.
The EULA specifically states that the retail version can only be used on Macintosh computers, so it is an upgrade, not a full version. Since the EULA has been upheld, that statement now has the force of law.
Allow me to ask you your estimate of the percentage of "hackintosh" users who have bought a full retail copy of Mac OS X.
OK. Obviously there is no way to know precisely, but I would say that most of the traffic on the snow leopard forum at insanelymac.com is in reference to the retail DVD... so say 60-80%? Completely uneducated of course.
Leopard was worse because of its cost and its hardware constraints.
I should point out that the Psystar ruling was Leopard specific as well, and did not address snow leopard.
And exactly where do you buy a Mac 7- 10" form factor?
It's not for nothing that this size has been selling so well besides being cheap- people like the size, the portability which Apple has failed to offer. Apple tried to convince people that they really wanted thin as in MacBook Air - the public responded differently.
Everything I've read indicates people don't really "like" their netbooks. The majority have been bought on price.
Question... If Apple comes out with a netbook or tablet, will you change your stance on supporting the 'hackintosh' concept for netbooks? After all, your claim is based on Apple not currently offering such a product.