rtdunham, I understand where you're going with this, but also understand that if $18 Billion has been spent on top of what they have already invested and we're still having dropped calls, calls that sound like we're talking through a tunnel, tons of dead zones in a decent sized city like Seattle, then where are they spending their money that they are reporting? It certainly isn't going toward something that improves the quality of phone calls, or eliminating dead zone areas!
The day Apple removes AT&T's monopoly on the iPhone is the day I switch carriers. I hate AT&T and their horrible service. If this is what $18 Billion buys, they'll have to invest trillions in order to give us the service worthy of the 21st century. I'm not asking for massive amounts of bandwidth. I'm asking for calls to NEVER be dropped when doing something so complex as walking down a sidewalk, or having my calls breakup so I have to ask them to repeat themselves, or the sound quality to be good enough that it sounds like a conversation and not seriously distorted. I've been using that iPhone app they have, but I don't honestly expect them to fix anything. They are too busy lining their pockets. I still don't believe that they've invested $18 Billion. Not unless they are buying $5000 wire cutters or something.
Actually, population density has very much to do with how effective a 3GSM tower is. As the saturation level increases, the actual distance from the tower to make a connection decreases significantly. Therefore, many more towers are needed to carry the load. In NY at least, I can say that AT&T over the past 12-14 months has eliminated much of the dead spots in certain areas outside of the City. Inside the 5 boroughs, not so much though.
I'm not defended their shitty service, but they have definitely been hiring subcontractors like crazy running around upgrading 2G towers to 3G. You can check my posts for other thoughts and such if you'd like, I don't feel like repeating myself right now
And then what? Take them to a nice restaurant and hope they pay for lunch?
Because that's the only money you will see changing hands on anyone's behalf for their supposed pain or suffering, no matter what happens during this so-called "Operation Chokehold".
what's the big deal? if you are under contract w/ att you will still get UNLIMITED data through the end of your contract. in the near future new / renewing contracts will have far different terms.
if you hate att then break your contract or STFU. go to verizon and pay $45/ month for unlimited data or 30/month for 250 MB, pay 3 bucks a month for visual voicemail, all on top of your voice and text message fees.
you KNOW what you were getting into w/ att's network, especially the people posting to this forum. if you didn't know, shame on you for buying something without doing research first. caveat emptor
you work for AT&T or do you just like getting ripped off?
Lemme get this straight. The network is choked to death with too much bandwidth use, and it's resulted in poor service.
Dan's solution is to deliberately increase that effect? Yeah....Smart.
his point from what i got out this is... the A-HOLE from AT&T what's that mexican's name again??
he said that AT$T would start to charge extra $$$ to those who 'over used' their bandwidth and AT$T is FULL IS BIG DOO DOO CACA SHYT!!!! they never did ANYTHING to improve the network and FAKE STEVE is just trying to make a statement and wanted to get everyone to make the 'point' that ATT has a crappy network and we could help in that effort... but he chickened out 'cause the big boys got their FCC lawyers on his ASS ... i say we BRING THOSE SUCKERS DOWN on Friday and overload the damn thing to the brink of CRASH like BLACK MONDAY... but all you chicken shitheads are just a bunch of sheep and don't get it!!!
What the hell happened to the freedom of speech and protest we use to have like in the 60's when we all got together and took a stand against the BIG MAN!!! ??? bunch of sissy's if u ask me...
I joined the FACEBOOK page and I'm gonna over load my iphone and sCREW ATT on friday...
I joined the FACEBOOK page and I'm gonna over load my iphone and sCREW ATT on friday...
um.. but you're just screwing yourself. You're partaking in something to deny yourself the service you pay for... and what's it going to accomplish?
AT&T is aware they suck.. If anything you will just provide more ammo with this laughable "protest" to introduce tiered pricing.
A better approach. IMO- is to download their app and mark their dead spots.. call customer service and make sure they address your usage of the program they provided with you directly. The paying customer in their face helping them help you is a lot more effective than the random DOS attack.
While I don't agree with bringing the network to its knees, I can't really feel sorry for AT&T. They advertised the service as "unlimited" and as such some people are going to assume that means no usage limits. I'm sure using "unlimited" was purely a marketing decision to keep up with other carriers, but you can't blame individuals for networking issues. AT&T grossly underestimated how many iPhones would sell and the average iPhone network usage. Their figures of 3% of users eating up 40% of the bandwidth clearly demonstrates that their 3G network was not ready for any kind of real world use. I don't believe any of the other carrier networks in the US would be able to support it either. As more and more of these mobile network devices hit the street and on other carriers, they will end up in the same situation. By the end of 2010 both Verizon and Sprint will being to feel the crunch after the dozen or so Android phones hit their networks and those users begin running network heavy applications on a regular basis.
It'll be nice in a couple of years after every one (hopefully) adopts the same 4G and devices like the iPhone can be spread somewhat equally across all the separate networks... or even better yet, but it'll ever happen, all the damned carriers pull together and build out one big network and lease the bandwidth to each other.
um.. but you're just screwing yourself. You're partaking in something to deny yourself the service you pay for... and what's it going to accomplish?
AT&T is aware they suck.. If anything you will just provide more ammo with this laughable "protest" to introduce tiered pricing.
A better approach. IMO- is to download their app and mark their dead spots.. call customer service and make sure they address your usage of the program they provided with you directly. The paying customer in their face helping them help you is a lot more effective than the random DOS attack.
Your approach is sensible, unfortunately I fear too few will read it so I'm quoting it, not that I expect my post to do any better
I don't know if Lyons was kidding or not but I'm amazed at people who would do this. At best, for the shortterm, all AT&T has to do is throttle bandwidth to 2G levels and let you try tomorrow. That like tying a dog to a pole on a short leash and having him chase after you. At worst, for the longterm, they can change plans of abusers who are losing them money. They can stay or go at that point with no penalty to them but is there really a choice for many with AT&T as the only iPhone provider? I'm a 20GB+/month iPhone user so I don't want them to retaliate.
This "Operation Chokehold" is a dangerous farce that is not the proper way to voice one's concerns over AT&T's service. While it started as a joke, Facebook users have congealed around the effort and are attempting to make the protest a reality. Messages have already been sent to the FCC, FBI, AT&T, and Apple.
This "Operation Chokehold" is a dangerous farce that is not the proper way to voice one's concerns over AT&T's service. While it started as a joke, Facebook users have congealed around the effort and are attempting to make the protest a reality. Messages have already been sent to the FCC, FBI, AT&T, and Apple.
I've been using AT&T since I booted Verizon for Cingular, and I've never had any problems. Not a single dropped call, no slowdowns, etc. And I use my iPhone from coast to coast. For the life of me, I don't understand where all of this whining comes from.
you're right Allan,, I booted verizon for AT&T
so that I can get the iPhone and I haven't had any kind of problems
what so ever.. AT&T has been great for my family.
AT&T is a little cheaper than verizon too. As for verizons
maps, who cares if they don't have 3g coverage in the middle
"We understand that fakesteve.net is primarily a satirical forum, but there is nothing amusing about advocating that customers attempt to deliberately degrade service on a network that provides critical communications services for more than 80 million customers. We know that the vast majority of customers will see this action for what it is: an irresponsible and pointless scheme to draw attention to a blog."
"People use our service to call each other on their phones. We didn't count on this when we launched our mobile phone network, so... sorry, don't expect it to work."
This is as stupid as saying (what they're basically saying now):
"People use our service to access the internet on their smart phones. We didn't count on this when we launched our mobile data network, so... sorry, don't expect it to work. And please don't use it unless absolutely necessary!"
Instead they SHOULD be saying:
"We're overwhelmed by the demand and heavy interest in using our mobile data network, and we're working hard, day and night, to provide even better coverage and network performance to meet the exploading demands. Please bear with us in the meanwhile!"
Their are a lot of stupidly passionate people ranting about this out there. Whether it be for or against Faux Steve, AT&T, etc. It is rather unfortunate that people haven't gotten organized and express this dissatisfaction in a productive way. How helpful can it be for anyone to rant here, other than maybe allowing a vent to reduce stress, though if you really are stressing about these things, relax and try reading a book.
the current evil 3% are so far above most of the others in usage that it won't be a big deal
it's not hard to tell who is tethering and using non-iphone data plans in iphones and using JB'd phones to run bandwidth intensive apps. don't know why AT&T didn't do anything about it before
If there is anything "evil" it is a company that sells unlimited plans and then complains when it is used that way. If AT&T worked to get their network up to par then this would not be an issue. Now, I am not opposed to a measured system - I have a jb phone and according to the AT&T app I consistently use less than half a gig a month and figure that I would come out ahead on a pay for use plan.
[QUOTE=... if $18 Billion has been spent on top of what they have already invested and we're still having dropped calls, calls that sound like we're talking through a tunnel, tons of dead zones in a decent sized city like Seattle, then where are they spending their money that they are reporting?...[/QUOTE]
My frustration with ATT pales next to what you've had to put up with.
So where ARE they spending? I was told the company's investing more in building out its network--filling the gaps on the famous (un)coverage map Verizon's exploiting in its ads--than it is in reinforcing the infrastructure in existing coverage areas. Or put another way, the commercial pressures on the company provide greater justification for putting in ten towers to add 3G coverage to a new area, than they do to justify adding ten towers to provide adequate coverage at my Florida house and nine other sites, in the middle of otherwise signal-saturated territory.
The good new? Last time i was in FL it looked like after two years of bitching, ATT had done just that. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. But that's the bind the company finds itself in, I'm afraid. It's gonna continue to be a catch-up game, one unsatisfactory to you and many others, for quite some time. The theory is that cutting by half the usage of that top 3%, for example, would reduce total network traffic about 15%. That could make a big difference. OR charging them more would generate more income to cover the cost of more towers while sustaining current profit levels--which IS a legitimate objective for a business.
ok, now we've established a grownup level for this argument!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitzandbitez
they never did ANYTHING to improve the network...
as discussed in this thread, that's not true. they've done a lot. Not enough to satisfy us all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitzandbitez
but all you chicken shitheads are just a bunch of sheep and don't get it!!!
THAT is likely to get a bunch of us to change our minds: "oh, wait! as bitzandbitez just made me realize, i'm just a chicken shithead! Damn! Suddenly I see he's right! What a chicken shithead I've been! AND a sheep. Baaa...."
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitzandbitez
...What the hell happened to the freedom of speech and protest we use to have like in the 60's when we all got together and took a stand against the BIG MAN!!! ??? bunch of sissy's if u ask me....
Those sissies--WE sissies, thank you very much--risked getting our heads bashed and gassed and jailed because tens of thousands of our fellow Americans were dying in a WAR, for god's sake, or because our peers couldn't eat in the same restaurants we ate at or sleep in the same motels or go to the same schools. You're talking about unsatisfying phone service, or the possibility of higher rates. That's insulting to those who utilized protest for important issues.
Now, having said that, bitzand, let me say I do understand the appeal, the cameraderie of coming together with like-minded people. (I got fired up at protests during 60s, and fired up at Steve-O's keynote speeches at MacWorld.) Nothing wrong with that. Can we just keep some perspective?
why do all the at&t apologists always declare the amount of billions that the company invests in the network but never mention the Billions -- 12-13 a *year* -- that the company takes home in *net income*?
"if you're looking for sympathy it's in the dictionary, between shit and suicide" (i know, i know).
A large part of Net Income is what's used to fund for these network expansions/upgrades the following year (dividends being the other major component). Just like Apple, who reinvests some of their net income in major R&D efforts, though Apple pockets a much larger percentage as available Cash (as is often noted on these forums).
My girlfriends Nokia N97 and the newer N phone drops calls on AT&T at such a maddening rate, I doubt it's the iPhone that is dropping the calls. It's the network stupid.
Comments
rtdunham, I understand where you're going with this, but also understand that if $18 Billion has been spent on top of what they have already invested and we're still having dropped calls, calls that sound like we're talking through a tunnel, tons of dead zones in a decent sized city like Seattle, then where are they spending their money that they are reporting? It certainly isn't going toward something that improves the quality of phone calls, or eliminating dead zone areas!
The day Apple removes AT&T's monopoly on the iPhone is the day I switch carriers. I hate AT&T and their horrible service. If this is what $18 Billion buys, they'll have to invest trillions in order to give us the service worthy of the 21st century. I'm not asking for massive amounts of bandwidth. I'm asking for calls to NEVER be dropped when doing something so complex as walking down a sidewalk, or having my calls breakup so I have to ask them to repeat themselves, or the sound quality to be good enough that it sounds like a conversation and not seriously distorted. I've been using that iPhone app they have, but I don't honestly expect them to fix anything. They are too busy lining their pockets. I still don't believe that they've invested $18 Billion. Not unless they are buying $5000 wire cutters or something.
Actually, population density has very much to do with how effective a 3GSM tower is. As the saturation level increases, the actual distance from the tower to make a connection decreases significantly. Therefore, many more towers are needed to carry the load. In NY at least, I can say that AT&T over the past 12-14 months has eliminated much of the dead spots in certain areas outside of the City. Inside the 5 boroughs, not so much though.
I'm not defended their shitty service, but they have definitely been hiring subcontractors like crazy running around upgrading 2G towers to 3G. You can check my posts for other thoughts and such if you'd like, I don't feel like repeating myself right now
All I can say to you is get a good lawyer.
And then what? Take them to a nice restaurant and hope they pay for lunch?
Because that's the only money you will see changing hands on anyone's behalf for their supposed pain or suffering, no matter what happens during this so-called "Operation Chokehold".
what's the big deal? if you are under contract w/ att you will still get UNLIMITED data through the end of your contract. in the near future new / renewing contracts will have far different terms.
if you hate att then break your contract or STFU. go to verizon and pay $45/ month for unlimited data or 30/month for 250 MB, pay 3 bucks a month for visual voicemail, all on top of your voice and text message fees.
you KNOW what you were getting into w/ att's network, especially the people posting to this forum. if you didn't know, shame on you for buying something without doing research first. caveat emptor
you work for AT&T or do you just like getting ripped off?
some people just don't get it
Lemme get this straight. The network is choked to death with too much bandwidth use, and it's resulted in poor service.
Dan's solution is to deliberately increase that effect? Yeah....Smart.
his point from what i got out this is... the A-HOLE from AT&T what's that mexican's name again??
he said that AT$T would start to charge extra $$$ to those who 'over used' their bandwidth and AT$T is FULL IS BIG DOO DOO CACA SHYT!!!! they never did ANYTHING to improve the network and FAKE STEVE is just trying to make a statement and wanted to get everyone to make the 'point' that ATT has a crappy network and we could help in that effort... but he chickened out 'cause the big boys got their FCC lawyers on his ASS ... i say we BRING THOSE SUCKERS DOWN on Friday and overload the damn thing to the brink of CRASH like BLACK MONDAY... but all you chicken shitheads are just a bunch of sheep and don't get it!!!
What the hell happened to the freedom of speech and protest we use to have like in the 60's when we all got together and took a stand against the BIG MAN!!! ??? bunch of sissy's if u ask me...
I joined the FACEBOOK page and I'm gonna over load my iphone and sCREW ATT on friday...
they threw at AT&T stick!! They were able to taint AT&T service
so much, AT&T is fighting to keep their reputation good..
I joined the FACEBOOK page and I'm gonna over load my iphone and sCREW ATT on friday...
um.. but you're just screwing yourself. You're partaking in something to deny yourself the service you pay for... and what's it going to accomplish?
AT&T is aware they suck.. If anything you will just provide more ammo with this laughable "protest" to introduce tiered pricing.
A better approach. IMO- is to download their app and mark their dead spots.. call customer service and make sure they address your usage of the program they provided with you directly. The paying customer in their face helping them help you is a lot more effective than the random DOS attack.
It'll be nice in a couple of years after every one (hopefully) adopts the same 4G and devices like the iPhone can be spread somewhat equally across all the separate networks... or even better yet, but it'll ever happen, all the damned carriers pull together and build out one big network and lease the bandwidth to each other.
um.. but you're just screwing yourself. You're partaking in something to deny yourself the service you pay for... and what's it going to accomplish?
AT&T is aware they suck.. If anything you will just provide more ammo with this laughable "protest" to introduce tiered pricing.
A better approach. IMO- is to download their app and mark their dead spots.. call customer service and make sure they address your usage of the program they provided with you directly. The paying customer in their face helping them help you is a lot more effective than the random DOS attack.
Your approach is sensible, unfortunately I fear too few will read it so I'm quoting it, not that I expect my post to do any better
I don't know if Lyons was kidding or not but I'm amazed at people who would do this. At best, for the shortterm, all AT&T has to do is throttle bandwidth to 2G levels and let you try tomorrow. That like tying a dog to a pole on a short leash and having him chase after you. At worst, for the longterm, they can change plans of abusers who are losing them money. They can stay or go at that point with no penalty to them but is there really a choice for many with AT&T as the only iPhone provider? I'm a 20GB+/month iPhone user so I don't want them to retaliate.
Consider joining "Operation Cuckoo" instead:
http://bit.ly/543pLz
This "Operation Chokehold" is a dangerous farce that is not the proper way to voice one's concerns over AT&T's service. While it started as a joke, Facebook users have congealed around the effort and are attempting to make the protest a reality. Messages have already been sent to the FCC, FBI, AT&T, and Apple.
Consider joining "Operation Cuckoo" instead:
http://bit.ly/543pLz
I love one of the pics on the site.PS: Using URL shortening sites isn?t advisable in forums as it masks the destination URL thereby preventing some from clicking your link.
I've been using AT&T since I booted Verizon for Cingular, and I've never had any problems. Not a single dropped call, no slowdowns, etc. And I use my iPhone from coast to coast. For the life of me, I don't understand where all of this whining comes from.
you're right Allan,, I booted verizon for AT&T
so that I can get the iPhone and I haven't had any kind of problems
what so ever.. AT&T has been great for my family.
AT&T is a little cheaper than verizon too. As for verizons
maps, who cares if they don't have 3g coverage in the middle
of nowhere like south Dakota Montana etc.
"We understand that fakesteve.net is primarily a satirical forum, but there is nothing amusing about advocating that customers attempt to deliberately degrade service on a network that provides critical communications services for more than 80 million customers. We know that the vast majority of customers will see this action for what it is: an irresponsible and pointless scheme to draw attention to a blog."
"People use our service to call each other on their phones. We didn't count on this when we launched our mobile phone network, so... sorry, don't expect it to work."
This is as stupid as saying (what they're basically saying now):
"People use our service to access the internet on their smart phones. We didn't count on this when we launched our mobile data network, so... sorry, don't expect it to work. And please don't use it unless absolutely necessary!"
Instead they SHOULD be saying:
"We're overwhelmed by the demand and heavy interest in using our mobile data network, and we're working hard, day and night, to provide even better coverage and network performance to meet the exploading demands. Please bear with us in the meanwhile!"
the current evil 3% are so far above most of the others in usage that it won't be a big deal
it's not hard to tell who is tethering and using non-iphone data plans in iphones and using JB'd phones to run bandwidth intensive apps. don't know why AT&T didn't do anything about it before
If there is anything "evil" it is a company that sells unlimited plans and then complains when it is used that way. If AT&T worked to get their network up to par then this would not be an issue. Now, I am not opposed to a measured system - I have a jb phone and according to the AT&T app I consistently use less than half a gig a month and figure that I would come out ahead on a pay for use plan.
My frustration with ATT pales next to what you've had to put up with.
So where ARE they spending? I was told the company's investing more in building out its network--filling the gaps on the famous (un)coverage map Verizon's exploiting in its ads--than it is in reinforcing the infrastructure in existing coverage areas. Or put another way, the commercial pressures on the company provide greater justification for putting in ten towers to add 3G coverage to a new area, than they do to justify adding ten towers to provide adequate coverage at my Florida house and nine other sites, in the middle of otherwise signal-saturated territory.
The good new? Last time i was in FL it looked like after two years of bitching, ATT had done just that. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. But that's the bind the company finds itself in, I'm afraid. It's gonna continue to be a catch-up game, one unsatisfactory to you and many others, for quite some time. The theory is that cutting by half the usage of that top 3%, for example, would reduce total network traffic about 15%. That could make a big difference. OR charging them more would generate more income to cover the cost of more towers while sustaining current profit levels--which IS a legitimate objective for a business.
... and AT$T is FULL IS BIG DOO DOO CACA SHYT!!!!
ok, now we've established a grownup level for this argument!
they never did ANYTHING to improve the network...
as discussed in this thread, that's not true. they've done a lot. Not enough to satisfy us all.
but all you chicken shitheads are just a bunch of sheep and don't get it!!!
THAT is likely to get a bunch of us to change our minds: "oh, wait! as bitzandbitez just made me realize, i'm just a chicken shithead! Damn! Suddenly I see he's right! What a chicken shithead I've been! AND a sheep. Baaa...."
...What the hell happened to the freedom of speech and protest we use to have like in the 60's when we all got together and took a stand against the BIG MAN!!! ??? bunch of sissy's if u ask me....
Those sissies--WE sissies, thank you very much--risked getting our heads bashed and gassed and jailed because tens of thousands of our fellow Americans were dying in a WAR, for god's sake, or because our peers couldn't eat in the same restaurants we ate at or sleep in the same motels or go to the same schools. You're talking about unsatisfying phone service, or the possibility of higher rates. That's insulting to those who utilized protest for important issues.
Now, having said that, bitzand, let me say I do understand the appeal, the cameraderie of coming together with like-minded people. (I got fired up at protests during 60s, and fired up at Steve-O's keynote speeches at MacWorld.) Nothing wrong with that. Can we just keep some perspective?
Sincerely
One of the chicken shitheads
why do all the at&t apologists always declare the amount of billions that the company invests in the network but never mention the Billions -- 12-13 a *year* -- that the company takes home in *net income*?
"if you're looking for sympathy it's in the dictionary, between shit and suicide" (i know, i know).
A large part of Net Income is what's used to fund for these network expansions/upgrades the following year (dividends being the other major component). Just like Apple, who reinvests some of their net income in major R&D efforts, though Apple pockets a much larger percentage as available Cash (as is often noted on these forums).