So what's the reason for "giving them away" in Australia?
Apart from the rather obvious fact that iPhones are comparably priced with any other smartphone on a plan in Australia across all five companies who sell them.
It's called adapting to local market conditions.
Who gives a flying f*ck about Australia when this conversation is about Japan?
Australia has nowhere near the kinds of phones Japan has. A smartphone everywhere else in the world is a basic phone in Japan. Adapting to market conditions where every carrier has one and is trying to undercut each other and selling poorly are two entire different things, Softbank is the only carrier of the iPhone in Japan.
The 3G did not sell, they didnt buy it. So what else to do but give it away and hope people pay for the more expensive plan. The 3GS has done much better than the original 3G but how much is left to interpretation. The 3GS is now being given away for free as well as of Dec 5th in Softbanks iPhone for Everyone deal. CultofMac says that the iPhone represents roughly 20% overall since release of the smartphone market (since June O8, roughly 2.6 million "smartphones" have been sold in japan)
The fact is there are better phones in Japan, cheaper prices, with 90% the same or better features. In Australia do you have manufacturers putting out new bleeding edge models every 6-8 weeks?
The fact is there are better phones in Japan, cheaper prices, with 90% the same or better features.
SHow us these phones. Show me a phone with a real standards-based browser that is better than Safari and with a capacitance mult-touch interface that allows for ease of use with intelligence zooming? It?s hard to believe that the iPhone sold at all in Japan if they had these features and they are better than the iPhone.
Of course, you didn?t mean any of that, you just used the term ?better? without qualifying it in any way and likely just better when doing some pointless spec sheet comparison for a geeky dick measuring contest that is ultimately irrelevant if all these ?better? features aren?t usable.
SHow us these phones. Show me a phone with a real standards-based browser that is better than Safari and with a capacitance mult-touch interface that allows for ease of use with intelligence zooming? It?s hard to believe that the iPhone sold at all in Japan if they had these features and they are better than the iPhone.
Of course, you didn?t mean any of that, you just used the term ?better? without qualifying it in any way and likely just better when doing some pointless spec sheet comparison for a geeky dick measuring contest that is ultimately irrelevant if all these ?better? features aren?t usable.
Aww are your feelings hurt? Do you need me to kiss your bruised ego? Get over it dude, the iphone isn't a spectacle in japan, sorry. Quit being lazy and do your own damn research.
Oh and the iphone "BARELY" sells in japan, otherwise they wouldn't need to give it away for free when its a carrier exclusive would they? I mean people should be flocking to to the iPhone after all cause everything else is obsolete to the almighty iphone am I right?
Aww are your feelings hurt? Do you need me to kiss your bruised ego? Get over it dude, the iphone isn't a spectacle in japan, sorry. Quit being lazy and do your own damn research.
Oh and the iphone "BARELY" sells in japan, otherwise they wouldn't need to give it away for free when its a carrier exclusive would they? I mean people should be flocking to to the iPhone after all cause everything else is obsolete to the almighty iphone am I right?
Wow, you really solidified your argument for the "facts" you presented earlier.
I have looked into other options in Japan, and have come to the conclusion that their phones are filled with useless features not because of the underlying tech in them, but the horrible UIs they have. I was hoping you really did have some examples. I guess you're not named ifail out of irony, after all.
The Android OS, although not there yet, is the only phone that is comparable to the iPhone as far as ease of use. The review on the Droid running Android over at Gizmodo seems to agree. Android needs help in their menus freezing or opening slowly, as well as the Video/Music player (which for some odd reason is hidden and not on the main screen.) Other than that apps load fast and it's enjoyable to use, according to the review.
Wow, you really solidified your argument for the "facts" you presented earlier.
I have looked into other options in Japan, and have come to the conclusion that their phones are filled with useless features not because of the underlying tech in them, but the horrible UIs they have. I was hoping you really did have some examples. I guess you're not named ifail out of irony, after all.
The Android OS, although not there yet, is the only phone that is comparable to the iPhone as far as ease of use. The review on the Droid running Android over at Gizmodo seems to agree. Android needs help in their menus freezing or opening slowly, as well as the Video/Music player (which for some odd reason is hidden and not on the main screen.) Other than that apps load fast and it's enjoyable to use, according to the review.
You want me to help you? Go to softbank.co.jp look at docomo's website, look at the other two major carriers that are there. I posted a link in one of earlier posts in this SAME THREAD to the phones that are currently selling well in Japan (nice that the 3GS was on it....until I realized they were giving it away for free when the numbers were for that week). People just aren't buying them in masses, its as simple as that.
UI means very little to the japanese, and all those specs mostly get used most features don't sit there and languish like how they do over here where you boast about them but never get used. Cell phones are a way of life over there more than it is over here (the closest thing most could recognize is a blackberry addict constantly pecking away at their keyboard).
If your feelings are hurt that their not swarming over everything Apple, well your feelings will continue to be hurt,
The smartphone industry in Japan is how it was over here 5-7 years ago, when the only reason you had a smartphone was for email but since nearly every phone can do email the only people you see toting smartphones are business users who needed enterprise email (this is why winmo has the dominant market share for smartphone os there) and need that encryption and deployment methods.
The consumer sector for smartphones isn't there like it is here.
You want me to help you? Go to softbank.co.jp look at docomo's website, look at the other two major carriers that are there. I posted a link in one of earlier posts in this SAME THREAD to the phones that are currently selling well in Japan (nice that the 3GS was on it....until I realized they were giving it away for free when the numbers were for that week). People just aren't buying them in masses, its as simple as that.
I look at it this way. People who drove a Ford Taurus all of their life and disputed that other cars were better, and then finally broke down and bought a Honda Accord because they were "giving it away" will be hard for Ford to win back. Once people to change something that makes a really good impression, they will likely be customers of the newer better product for a while.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail
UI means very little to the japanese, and all those specs mostly get used most features don't sit there and languish like how they do over here where you boast about them but never get used. Cell phones are a way of life over there more than it is over here (the closest thing most could recognize is a blackberry addict constantly pecking away at their keyboard).
If you are debating that a simple to navigate UI is less preferable to a complicated one....I don't know what else to do but /facepalm you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail
If your feelings are hurt that their not swarming over everything Apple, well your feelings will continue to be hurt,
I don't see anywhere in my argument about Apple being the be-all end-all, and like to compare and contrast things from different manufacturers. If any of my posts throughout the history of my posts on here look like they are biased towards Apple, it's probably deserved on Apple's part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail
The smartphone industry in Japan is how it was over here 5-7 years ago, when the only reason you had a smartphone was for email but since nearly every phone can do email the only people you see toting smartphones are business users who needed enterprise email (this is why winmo has the dominant market share for smartphone os there) and need that encryption and deployment methods.
The consumer sector for smartphones isn't there like it is here.
I agree with that, their backbone is much more capable. However, the use of MobileTV, mail, and media (such as music and pictures) has been limited by the design of the UIs of the smartphones there. Each manufacturer set up their own basically limited services and never got any major players on board to provide content or ease of use. That is what I was meaning to say earlier about their UIs stink. Probably a reason WinMo is big there, because it's better than what the Japanese phone makers could manage for a UI.
This argument is completely different than the one you presented earlier. WinMo doesn't trounce iPhone OS by any stretch of the imagination. This was your earlier statement, please correct me if it wasn't you who said it:
"The fact is there are better phones in Japan, cheaper prices, with 90% the same or better features."
Those features aren't being used the way they are here, which makes their market different. The mass appeal for the iPhone is in the fact that it isn't just a phone and does consumer friendly things very simply, like browse the web, manage music and video, and play some games. It is a replacement for three devices. If it takes giving the phone away free in Japan to crack the market, and then get features like RFID and better cameras into the next generation phone, then so be it. I still don't see it as a flop in a notoriously hard market to enter. It may take a little longer and a bit more effort, but then Japan always had been this way. At least people are taking this version home with them. If I remember right the kids in Japan were skipping the 3G in ponds for fun because they ran out of rocks. (Just kidding--but it was a flop.)
I look at it this way. People who drove a Ford Taurus all of their life and disputed that other cars were better, and then finally broke down and bought a Honda Accord because they were "giving it away" will be hard for Ford to win back. Once people to change something that makes a really good impression, they will likely be customers of the newer better product for a while.
If you are debating that a simple to navigate UI is less preferable to a complicated one....I don't know what else to do but /facepalm you.
I don't see anywhere in my argument about Apple being the be-all end-all, and like to compare and contrast things from different manufacturers. If any of my posts throughout the history of my posts on here look like they are biased towards Apple, it's probably deserved on Apple's part.
I agree with that, their backbone is much more capable. However, the use of MobileTV, mail, and media (such as music and pictures) has been limited by the design of the UIs of the smartphones there. Each manufacturer set up their own basically limited services and never got any major players on board to provide content or ease of use. That is what I was meaning to say earlier about their UIs stink. Probably a reason WinMo is big there, because it's better than what the Japanese phone makers could manage for a UI.
This argument is completely different than the one you presented earlier. WinMo doesn't trounce iPhone OS by any stretch of the imagination. This was your earlier statement, please correct me if it wasn't you who said it:
"The fact is there are better phones in Japan, cheaper prices, with 90% the same or better features."
Those features aren't being used the way they are here, which makes their market different. The mass appeal for the iPhone is in the fact that it isn't just a phone and does consumer friendly things very simply, like browse the web, manage music and video, and play some games. It is a replacement for three devices. If it takes giving the phone away free in Japan to crack the market, and then get features like RFID and better cameras into the next generation phone, then so be it. I still don't see it as a flop in a notoriously hard market to enter. It may take a little longer and a bit more effort, but then Japan always had been this way. At least people are taking this version home with them. If I remember right the kids in Japan were skipping the 3G in ponds for fun because they ran out of rocks. (Just kidding--but it was a flop.)
Their phones aren't really set up like smartphones, they just have a gang of features packed into the phone. Your not shaking your phone to shuffle music or clear a selection. No doubt Apple has the UI game on lock but they are missing some Hello Kitty lol
While the UI may lack substance or style the features are there and work so the incentive to switch is less. WinMo is big over there mostly because of Windows and the fact they were first real organized enterprise device over there. Since last june Apple has taken 20% of the smartphone market which is respectable but hardly the 48% this story portrays. RIM is doing pretty terrible as well and it should be noted.
And I stand by my statement, while Apple has the ui on lock, the features people care about are either missing (osai keifu is a big one, just another form of RFID, and I probably spelled that wrong fyi) and ARE on practically every other device in japan as well as the phone plan prices are higher for the iphone compared to other devices with the same or more features (email, web surfing, not stuff like the app store).
Lastly I agree the phone isn't a flop but its not a shining star either. The iphone is a hit here (and comparable smartphones) because they are all in one devices and marketed as such for phone media and web. Phones over there have the same listed features so its even less of an impact on a market that has had that stuff for years. If anything its spelling the end for PMPs as more devices are putting all-in-one for us (even apple knows this).
Japan is the worst market to take on as an outsider, Apple had success with the iPod but I doubt they will replicate it with the iPhone which is just a totally different beast altogether.
Comments
So what's the reason for "giving them away" in Australia?
Apart from the rather obvious fact that iPhones are comparably priced with any other smartphone on a plan in Australia across all five companies who sell them.
It's called adapting to local market conditions.
Who gives a flying f*ck about Australia when this conversation is about Japan?
Australia has nowhere near the kinds of phones Japan has. A smartphone everywhere else in the world is a basic phone in Japan. Adapting to market conditions where every carrier has one and is trying to undercut each other and selling poorly are two entire different things, Softbank is the only carrier of the iPhone in Japan.
The 3G did not sell, they didnt buy it. So what else to do but give it away and hope people pay for the more expensive plan. The 3GS has done much better than the original 3G but how much is left to interpretation. The 3GS is now being given away for free as well as of Dec 5th in Softbanks iPhone for Everyone deal. CultofMac says that the iPhone represents roughly 20% overall since release of the smartphone market (since June O8, roughly 2.6 million "smartphones" have been sold in japan)
The fact is there are better phones in Japan, cheaper prices, with 90% the same or better features. In Australia do you have manufacturers putting out new bleeding edge models every 6-8 weeks?
The fact is there are better phones in Japan, cheaper prices, with 90% the same or better features.
SHow us these phones. Show me a phone with a real standards-based browser that is better than Safari and with a capacitance mult-touch interface that allows for ease of use with intelligence zooming? It?s hard to believe that the iPhone sold at all in Japan if they had these features and they are better than the iPhone.
Of course, you didn?t mean any of that, you just used the term ?better? without qualifying it in any way and likely just better when doing some pointless spec sheet comparison for a geeky dick measuring contest that is ultimately irrelevant if all these ?better? features aren?t usable.
SHow us these phones. Show me a phone with a real standards-based browser that is better than Safari and with a capacitance mult-touch interface that allows for ease of use with intelligence zooming? It?s hard to believe that the iPhone sold at all in Japan if they had these features and they are better than the iPhone.
Of course, you didn?t mean any of that, you just used the term ?better? without qualifying it in any way and likely just better when doing some pointless spec sheet comparison for a geeky dick measuring contest that is ultimately irrelevant if all these ?better? features aren?t usable.
Aww are your feelings hurt? Do you need me to kiss your bruised ego? Get over it dude, the iphone isn't a spectacle in japan, sorry. Quit being lazy and do your own damn research.
Oh and the iphone "BARELY" sells in japan, otherwise they wouldn't need to give it away for free when its a carrier exclusive would they? I mean people should be flocking to to the iPhone after all cause everything else is obsolete to the almighty iphone am I right?
Aww are your feelings hurt? Do you need me to kiss your bruised ego? Get over it dude, the iphone isn't a spectacle in japan, sorry. Quit being lazy and do your own damn research.
Oh and the iphone "BARELY" sells in japan, otherwise they wouldn't need to give it away for free when its a carrier exclusive would they? I mean people should be flocking to to the iPhone after all cause everything else is obsolete to the almighty iphone am I right?
Wow, you really solidified your argument for the "facts" you presented earlier.
I have looked into other options in Japan, and have come to the conclusion that their phones are filled with useless features not because of the underlying tech in them, but the horrible UIs they have. I was hoping you really did have some examples. I guess you're not named ifail out of irony, after all.
The Android OS, although not there yet, is the only phone that is comparable to the iPhone as far as ease of use. The review on the Droid running Android over at Gizmodo seems to agree. Android needs help in their menus freezing or opening slowly, as well as the Video/Music player (which for some odd reason is hidden and not on the main screen.) Other than that apps load fast and it's enjoyable to use, according to the review.
Wow, you really solidified your argument for the "facts" you presented earlier.
I have looked into other options in Japan, and have come to the conclusion that their phones are filled with useless features not because of the underlying tech in them, but the horrible UIs they have. I was hoping you really did have some examples. I guess you're not named ifail out of irony, after all.
The Android OS, although not there yet, is the only phone that is comparable to the iPhone as far as ease of use. The review on the Droid running Android over at Gizmodo seems to agree. Android needs help in their menus freezing or opening slowly, as well as the Video/Music player (which for some odd reason is hidden and not on the main screen.) Other than that apps load fast and it's enjoyable to use, according to the review.
You want me to help you? Go to softbank.co.jp look at docomo's website, look at the other two major carriers that are there. I posted a link in one of earlier posts in this SAME THREAD to the phones that are currently selling well in Japan (nice that the 3GS was on it....until I realized they were giving it away for free when the numbers were for that week). People just aren't buying them in masses, its as simple as that.
UI means very little to the japanese, and all those specs mostly get used most features don't sit there and languish like how they do over here where you boast about them but never get used. Cell phones are a way of life over there more than it is over here (the closest thing most could recognize is a blackberry addict constantly pecking away at their keyboard).
If your feelings are hurt that their not swarming over everything Apple, well your feelings will continue to be hurt,
The smartphone industry in Japan is how it was over here 5-7 years ago, when the only reason you had a smartphone was for email but since nearly every phone can do email the only people you see toting smartphones are business users who needed enterprise email (this is why winmo has the dominant market share for smartphone os there) and need that encryption and deployment methods.
The consumer sector for smartphones isn't there like it is here.
You want me to help you? Go to softbank.co.jp look at docomo's website, look at the other two major carriers that are there. I posted a link in one of earlier posts in this SAME THREAD to the phones that are currently selling well in Japan (nice that the 3GS was on it....until I realized they were giving it away for free when the numbers were for that week). People just aren't buying them in masses, its as simple as that.
I look at it this way. People who drove a Ford Taurus all of their life and disputed that other cars were better, and then finally broke down and bought a Honda Accord because they were "giving it away" will be hard for Ford to win back. Once people to change something that makes a really good impression, they will likely be customers of the newer better product for a while.
UI means very little to the japanese, and all those specs mostly get used most features don't sit there and languish like how they do over here where you boast about them but never get used. Cell phones are a way of life over there more than it is over here (the closest thing most could recognize is a blackberry addict constantly pecking away at their keyboard).
If you are debating that a simple to navigate UI is less preferable to a complicated one....I don't know what else to do but /facepalm you.
If your feelings are hurt that their not swarming over everything Apple, well your feelings will continue to be hurt,
I don't see anywhere in my argument about Apple being the be-all end-all, and like to compare and contrast things from different manufacturers. If any of my posts throughout the history of my posts on here look like they are biased towards Apple, it's probably deserved on Apple's part.
The smartphone industry in Japan is how it was over here 5-7 years ago, when the only reason you had a smartphone was for email but since nearly every phone can do email the only people you see toting smartphones are business users who needed enterprise email (this is why winmo has the dominant market share for smartphone os there) and need that encryption and deployment methods.
The consumer sector for smartphones isn't there like it is here.
I agree with that, their backbone is much more capable. However, the use of MobileTV, mail, and media (such as music and pictures) has been limited by the design of the UIs of the smartphones there. Each manufacturer set up their own basically limited services and never got any major players on board to provide content or ease of use. That is what I was meaning to say earlier about their UIs stink. Probably a reason WinMo is big there, because it's better than what the Japanese phone makers could manage for a UI.
This argument is completely different than the one you presented earlier. WinMo doesn't trounce iPhone OS by any stretch of the imagination. This was your earlier statement, please correct me if it wasn't you who said it:
"The fact is there are better phones in Japan, cheaper prices, with 90% the same or better features."
Those features aren't being used the way they are here, which makes their market different. The mass appeal for the iPhone is in the fact that it isn't just a phone and does consumer friendly things very simply, like browse the web, manage music and video, and play some games. It is a replacement for three devices. If it takes giving the phone away free in Japan to crack the market, and then get features like RFID and better cameras into the next generation phone, then so be it. I still don't see it as a flop in a notoriously hard market to enter. It may take a little longer and a bit more effort, but then Japan always had been this way. At least people are taking this version home with them. If I remember right the kids in Japan were skipping the 3G in ponds for fun because they ran out of rocks. (Just kidding--but it was a flop.)
I look at it this way. People who drove a Ford Taurus all of their life and disputed that other cars were better, and then finally broke down and bought a Honda Accord because they were "giving it away" will be hard for Ford to win back. Once people to change something that makes a really good impression, they will likely be customers of the newer better product for a while.
If you are debating that a simple to navigate UI is less preferable to a complicated one....I don't know what else to do but /facepalm you.
I don't see anywhere in my argument about Apple being the be-all end-all, and like to compare and contrast things from different manufacturers. If any of my posts throughout the history of my posts on here look like they are biased towards Apple, it's probably deserved on Apple's part.
I agree with that, their backbone is much more capable. However, the use of MobileTV, mail, and media (such as music and pictures) has been limited by the design of the UIs of the smartphones there. Each manufacturer set up their own basically limited services and never got any major players on board to provide content or ease of use. That is what I was meaning to say earlier about their UIs stink. Probably a reason WinMo is big there, because it's better than what the Japanese phone makers could manage for a UI.
This argument is completely different than the one you presented earlier. WinMo doesn't trounce iPhone OS by any stretch of the imagination. This was your earlier statement, please correct me if it wasn't you who said it:
"The fact is there are better phones in Japan, cheaper prices, with 90% the same or better features."
Those features aren't being used the way they are here, which makes their market different. The mass appeal for the iPhone is in the fact that it isn't just a phone and does consumer friendly things very simply, like browse the web, manage music and video, and play some games. It is a replacement for three devices. If it takes giving the phone away free in Japan to crack the market, and then get features like RFID and better cameras into the next generation phone, then so be it. I still don't see it as a flop in a notoriously hard market to enter. It may take a little longer and a bit more effort, but then Japan always had been this way. At least people are taking this version home with them. If I remember right the kids in Japan were skipping the 3G in ponds for fun because they ran out of rocks. (Just kidding--but it was a flop.)
Their phones aren't really set up like smartphones, they just have a gang of features packed into the phone. Your not shaking your phone to shuffle music or clear a selection. No doubt Apple has the UI game on lock but they are missing some Hello Kitty lol
While the UI may lack substance or style the features are there and work so the incentive to switch is less. WinMo is big over there mostly because of Windows and the fact they were first real organized enterprise device over there. Since last june Apple has taken 20% of the smartphone market which is respectable but hardly the 48% this story portrays. RIM is doing pretty terrible as well and it should be noted.
And I stand by my statement, while Apple has the ui on lock, the features people care about are either missing (osai keifu is a big one, just another form of RFID, and I probably spelled that wrong fyi) and ARE on practically every other device in japan as well as the phone plan prices are higher for the iphone compared to other devices with the same or more features (email, web surfing, not stuff like the app store).
Lastly I agree the phone isn't a flop but its not a shining star either. The iphone is a hit here (and comparable smartphones) because they are all in one devices and marketed as such for phone media and web. Phones over there have the same listed features so its even less of an impact on a market that has had that stuff for years. If anything its spelling the end for PMPs as more devices are putting all-in-one for us (even apple knows this).
Japan is the worst market to take on as an outsider, Apple had success with the iPod but I doubt they will replicate it with the iPhone which is just a totally different beast altogether.