Apple reinventing file access, wireless sharing for iPad

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  • Reply 421 of 507
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post


    Do we know that their iPad photo app actually allows any manipulation of photos? Like crop, rotate, change brightness, create album, name faces?



    If so (that's great.. and) it would be important to only have a subset of photos. I can see having the last 3 months automatically on my iPad, plus selected events or albums as per the iPhone/AppleTV. The ability to look at them, delete some, fix some would be great... then have the smaller subset sync back up to the master library COMPLETE WITH CHANGES.



    I know it's not a simple need, but it is an incredibly useful one...



    They do offer an Pad Camera Connection Kit for the device. Of course, that means nothing and I can see no editing in Photos or iPod. Note they don't call it iPhoto or iTunes.



    They may allow the manipulation but only through a 3rd-party apps. Or they may add it later once the device gets more established. Isn't this the first non-Mac with Apple-created apps for robust document creation and editing as an option?
  • Reply 422 of 507
    Perfect!! Now Mrs Underhill will have to let me keep my Mac Book Pro.



    Once her Majesty see's how iPad and MBP work in harmony she'll forgive me and spare me my head.
  • Reply 423 of 507
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    They do offer an Pad Camera Connection Kit for the device. Of course, that means nothing and I can see no editing in Photos or iPod. Note they don't call it iPhoto or iTunes.



    I saw that too.

    But yes it could just import the photos into an "import roll" icon, where the iPhone has the "camera roll" folder.
  • Reply 424 of 507
    Just wondering : sometimes I need my computer with me but don't want to have the hassle of lugging a 6 pounds computer with powerplug and so on.

    If I need to work on text files and pictures on the move, is the iPad a nice lightweight solution for this ?
  • Reply 425 of 507
    nasdarqnasdarq Posts: 137member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    You are mistaken.



    Speaking as someone who does a lot of tech support for a lot of very intelligent people, lots and lots of folks don't understand file systems at all. IMO it has very little to do with IQ or level of education.



    Macs even have highly simplified logical file systems and a lot of idiot proof stuff to keep the complexity out of the way, but I still have to explain on a fairly regular basis "where your file went" to PhD's. Very few users really even understand the concept of the "User" folder hierarchy on the Mac which is as simple as file systems get. They might not admit it to you but it's fairly obvious that this is the case when you support them.



    Most of the people I support see the HD on the desktop, understand that as a "file receptacle" of some kind and throw stuff in there willy nilly (absolutely the wrong thing to do on a Mac). Most use the trash as a kind of "pile of forgotten stuff" (secondary receptacle), and most store pretty much every single thing they really want to hang onto, on the desktop itself.



    It's getting better now there is a Documents folder and a Downloads folder accessible to the user from the desktop, but the number of folks that immediately changed the downloads back to the desktop upon installing Leopard is quite high also.



    The majority of users want all their files in a big pile in front of them, or perhaps organised into folders, (but still in front of them). Digging around in the file system makes them immediately nervous in most cases.



    Even though you're definitely downplaying a typical PHD's (unless he or she is, like my mother, a PHD in philology ...) capacity to remember a few logical steps to find a file on his/her computer, your examples only attest an old truth that, in most cases, human stupidity has no boundaries. Do you think Apple are going to change that by getting rid of the hierarchical file system?



    By the way, the ability to save one's hundreds of files on his dektop - just because one prefers that kind of (a visible) mess - is also one of the advantages given by a hierarchical file system ...
  • Reply 426 of 507
    rcfarcfa Posts: 1,124member
    ...this is how I organized my files in the dark ages of MS-DOS, like early to mid 80s: a doc folder in each application's installation folder, simply because there was no such thing as a decent file open panel or Finder, and otherwise opening files would have required a lot of painful file system navigation.



    With the advent of GUIs I was able to finally leave this brain-dead application based working style behind, and focus on the DATA, the PROJECTS, etc.

    I don't work with applications, I work on PROJECTS and their DOCUMENTS. I then open a document, which as a SIDE EFFECT launches an application. Applications should disappear rather than becoming the center piece of a user's interaction with a computing device.



    Further, documents should have an open format, and hence it should be possible to work on them with multiple applications. Grouping documents with a specific application is a huge step backwards.



    Lastly, scrolling through documents DOES NOT SCALE. Have a few hundred Pages documents, and it'll become a PITA to find the proper one. After all, these are not photos, which are usually taken a few at a time, and which are easily recognized by a few, prominent features. These are text documents, that more or less all look the same. If they are strewn all into once place without decent categorization and organization, the mess is perfect in no time.



    The more I look at the iPad, the more it reminds me of a modern edition of the original Mac, single-tasking, single-app paradigm, closed proprietary architecture etc. all included.



    Maybe Jobs has to get fired, found a new NeXT and be forced to listen to customers again, until he creates an open version of the iPad, just like NeXT was an open version of the Mac.

    Why is it, that excessive greed and lust for power always finds its way back into corporate leadership, even when you thought a company might have learned a few lessons from their recent past.



    Or look at DRM. One might have thought the debate with DRM in iTunes music might have led somewhere, but no, DRM with iBooks and of course the AppStore apps is alive and kicking. Does Apple try to say it's OK to steal music, but not OK to steal books and apps?

    Or alternatively, if the threat of music theft, compared to the advertising effect stolen songs have, is small enough to do away with DRM, then why does the same not hold true for books, apps, etc.?



    Pretty pathetic.
  • Reply 427 of 507
    targontargon Posts: 103member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    Speaking as someone who does a lot of tech support for a lot of very intelligent people, lots and lots of folks don't understand file systems at all. IMO it has very little to do with IQ or level of education.



    Grace us with something spectacular. What does it have to do with?



    It does not require a genius to figure out a file system given the usual analogies as a reference ie: HD = filing cabin, each draw representing a partition of the HD and the folders containing documents.
  • Reply 428 of 507
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    What I meant was that they use a phone OS, and aren't counted in with desktop and laptops as a computer OS. They're a mobile platform. I didn't mean that they're not computers.



    I was going to visit you, but the doctor did some laser surgery when I went in tuesday, so I was back home that day, and only went to the other doctor on Wednesday, then back home again.



    no rush to visit

    i have my own doc stuff

    just get well soon

    the spring will be here soon enough



    BACK TO TOPIC



    AFTER reading such high passion fro months now about this glass PAD





    i feel apple will step back and allow the public to decide where to go from here



    over time it will morph from a media console

    to a media controller

    maybe 3 or 4 future models in 2 form factors

    for starters apple bestowed upon our greedy little hands a fantastic futuristic gaming machine

    a new way to play and view games

    add all the cool media slots like great movie play back and ipod stuff > email to loved ones including photo's pod casts

    anyway you get my drift for all the luddite complaints

    the world never knew it needed this

    but it does

    worldwide commuters having a boring 2 to 3 hr daily commutes can game movie mail photo music podcast learn on and on . nothing sticks out nothing to plug in

    QUOTE ME ON THIS in 18 months from right now there will be a standard 6 week wait and sales will hit over 12 million to 15 million

    apple tries to slow sales by charging high numbers to no no avail



    a world wide cash only black market springs up over night starting 3 days ago



    many many people will also opt out of high broadband costs and start a new path that is wireless mobile and less cost than now

    for 30 bucks a month plus a 12 dollar net flix sub you can leave reg tv viewing and take all your own media and watch or listen to free pod cast or internet cnn video or net flix starz channels

    on and on . in any what ever your situation you as of 3 months from now or not tied to your couch any more



    the doctor lawyer and indian chief model will come out next year



    little by little apple approved parts join up as one and leave the rest behind

    apple makes the hard ware software and has the app makers very happy

    adobe msft nokia google are all fading away

    soon even ATT WILL BE off our radar

    the closed circle tightens as all apple faithful reap the benefits of the best of the future while all our costs going down



    the final piece's of APPLES world domination will be the world wide debut of the nano phone

    and apple as a MVDO GATEKEEPER





    GOOD MORNING TO ALL ON A COLD BRIGHT SUNNY NYC WINTER MORN

    this rant was by lostplay



    peace 9
  • Reply 429 of 507
    multimediamultimedia Posts: 1,056member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stumbleone;


    This mangles the concept of ?projects.? When I?m doing video work I?ll have files from a variety of applications collocated in a centralized directory: DV/AVCHD/mov video; FCE/FCP sequences; jpg/TIF/PSD images; PDF; AIFF/MP3 audio; etc.



    Now I realize that the iPad does not currently support video creation at all. But other kinds of projects can also require files from various apps.



    I don?t see how the app=file type library or file system can make this work. So is the iPad truly not to be compatible with or usable for content creation, and is just to be a viewer? Maybe so. Have to think about that.



    Consider this is the beginning of what is likely to change a lot over time. iPad Evolution Will Have To Let Multiple File Types Share Common Space. Video content creation will surely be a high priority. I've got a hunch the Final Cut group is working on an iPad version of FCP for future release next year.
  • Reply 430 of 507
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Katonah View Post


    Yeah, it's incredible. The first calculator - and how we got excited by a simple addition or subtraction. Or the first mainframe computers that took up whole floors in companies buildings..... and to think they had less processing power than an iphone!



    And who'da thunk a few decades ago that a 1 1/2 pound gizmo called an iPad could let you read books, watch movies, play video games! It's still amazing all this technology.



    And even more remarkably, in our (as in some of the old farts here) lifetime!



    Can you imagine where it all will be 25-40 years from now, i.e., when some of the whippersnappers here are grown up! One thing's for sure: they'll be the new melgross!
  • Reply 431 of 507
    ugh.... Apple really blew it on one thing for the iPad. No USB is nearly unforgivable. I should not need to have another computer to get my files.



    AppleInsider is pandering to Apple here. Having the iPad be more like the iPhone and less like OS X here is a big low point for usability.



    I should be able to load any file I want off of USB, Mobile Me, and or LAN file shares via Wifi, but USB is the most important by far.



    Even with an Apple mindeset on this, they did announce a USB adapter for digital cameras didn't they? Will that be usable as a general purpose USB storage adapter? That would be great.
  • Reply 432 of 507
    One of the most insightful posts of all time. I am pasting it in its entirety so that it gets read again.



    The points you make seem so obvious after reading it, and it is amazing to me how everyone in the media seem to have totally missed the obvious.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I don't see where you get the Google/Apple thing. At one time, before Google started copying Apple's product line, it looked as though they might merge. Their products were complimentary. But then Google began to compete with Apple, and now, all bets are off as to what will happen between them.



    I could write a REALLY long post on this, but I'm sure you don't want me to. So I'll just write a slightly long one.



    My take on where Apple is going now, because of Steve's long term vision, is to extend the iPhone OS. Heh, we had a thread (maybe it was early in this one) in which someone complained about Apple's use of "i" before so many products.



    Well, I hate to see this OS referred to as the iPhone OS because the Touch, and especially the iPad are most certainly not phones, though they can make Skype and Vonage VOIP calls.



    So, let's call it the iOS for now. It could be a worse name.



    Apple is taking the iOS upscale with the iPad. I think it will continue to go further.



    You see, he's being cagy here, and is leading developers down a path they don't even know they're taking!



    So, the iPhone comes out without programming possible. Use the cloud is the first mantra, with a promise to make everyone happy with development later.



    Then comes the SDK, and the app store. So everyone and their sister begins to write programs for these little devices. They become wildly popular, and so do the programs.



    So, most every company starts writing programs for them. And I mean everyone. Media companies, industrial companies, software companies, governments, etc. So we've got a whole load of developers here.



    But this is for a phone, right? So, well, it's ok then to get programmers to write for it with the different cpu, and different gpu with the limitations all small devices have.



    But they're growing software development teams to write for it.



    So, almost three years later, Apple announces the iPad. With the same basic OS, but with additional features, a more powerful hardware with a real computer sized screen.



    Well now, there are over 140,000 apps that can run on this. but they run better when modded for it. So they start working on it.



    But wait, it also can run iWork in modified form, and it's finally got a "real" keyboard, and a good, big virtual one. This is a new opportunity! So, we start to see more software companies hiring more programmers to write more sophisticated software.



    Now, normally, companies don't want to change processors they're writing for, because they have to change their codebase over, and gain expertise with it all at once.



    But hey, we're writing for phones, of COURSE we've got to work with a different hardware base, and a slightly different OS, which just HAPPENs to be based on full fledged UNIX so it's got far more power than any other phone OS.



    Hmm! So now there are at least a couple hundred thousand programmers with experience on this platform.



    And the platform expands over the years. Slowly but surely.



    Next up, a model with 15" screen at maybe 1600 x 1200, and more powerful processors.



    Then before you know it, these companies have almost as many programmers working on the iOS on ARM as they do working on OS X and x86.



    But, guess what? The iOS machines are vastly outselling the machines using OS X and x86. Whoops!



    As Apple reduces the OS X x86 machines in their line, most work is being done on iOS and ARM.



    Guess what Apple is doing to these companies?



    And the iOS is now the 2nd most used OS, and rising fast.



    Well, where might we be in 2020?



    What was that about the OS wars being won?



  • Reply 433 of 507
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Did you miss this part ?



    Instead, each app displays the files it knows about at launch for the user to navigate through directly.



    How is that lock-in? If I open an app it sees all filetypes it can handle. This article says nothing about sandboxing documents to a single app.



    If the files are kept in the same folder as the originating app, then that file is deleted when the app is deleted. Unless this file is moved to a new folder when the 'owning' app changes, this file is locked into the same fate as it's originating app.
  • Reply 434 of 507
    ivan.rnn01ivan.rnn01 Posts: 1,822member
    Well. Not sure how vinea feels about it, but IMO, this Prince's piece (if backed up by serious facts) is by far the most informative and explanatory one, having been published since we'd heard first time about iPad.

    As for bringing file sharing back to iPhone, it's not a must. iPhone was designed and build as essentially consuming device. Almost nothing is supposed to be produced on iPhone and then shared.
  • Reply 435 of 507
    dacloodacloo Posts: 890member
    This is nice and all, but for regular use (designing apps, websites, etc) you need a folder structure to organise your files.
  • Reply 436 of 507
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post


    ...Do we know that their iPad photo app actually allows any manipulation of photos? Like crop, rotate, change brightness, create album, name faces?.



    I'd imagine so: I already have several apps that do that on my iPhone.



    Your other thoughts, about how a master iPhoto library might be managed with a smaller-capacity device like iPad, are spot on.
  • Reply 437 of 507
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    One of the most insightful posts of all time. I am pasting it in its entirety so that it gets read again.



    The points you make seem so obvious after reading it, and it is amazing to me how everyone in the media seem to have totally missed the obvious.



    agreed

    the part about mobile os taking over sent chills down my back



    9
  • Reply 438 of 507
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by huntercr View Post


    ugh.... Apple really blew it on one thing for the iPad. No USB is nearly unforgivable. I should not need to have another computer to get my files.

    [...]

    Even with an Apple mindeset on this, they did announce a USB adapter for digital cameras didn't they? Will that be usable as a general purpose USB storage adapter? That would be great.



    That second paragraph's curiousness negates the first's paragraph's accusation.



    What we do know is that even without buying the iWork apps for content editing these files can be sent via email at the very least. And there is word of a locally accessed file system. This makes me lean heavily toward he USB-A and SD card adapters to allow non-images to be copied and read.
  • Reply 439 of 507
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Targon View Post


    Grace us with something spectacular. What does it have to do with?



    It does not require a genius to figure out a file system given the usual analogies as a reference ie: HD = filing cabin, each draw representing a partition of the HD and the folders containing documents.



    Use your head then, instead of just being snarky.



    - The fact that I said it doesn't correlate with IQ doesn't imply that I can conceptualise in one word or statement what it *does* correlate to.



    - The fact that it "doesn't take a genius" to understand the metaphor when it's explained to you (which I also stated), actually kind of props up my argument that it has nothing to do with IQ.



    It probably has to do with how one conceptualises their work, work-flow, work habits, and (I would suspect), left-brain vs. right-brain types.



    Look at it this way. A coding system or computer language is usually a highly logical and ordered affair. Today's crappy education systems aside, there is no reason why even a reasonably smart person shouldn't be able to quickly understand said system and write code for it easily. In reality, there are many people with rather high IQ's that can't code worth a damn and whose eyes kind of glaze over when faced with such a challenge. They aren't stupid, they just aren't coders. They don't "work that way."



    The ability to understand visual and conceptual abstractions is one off the things that separates apes and humans from the rest of the animal world, so maybe it has to do with too much switching between too many different types of abstraction or too high a level of abstraction or something.



    I don't really know the cause, (I never claimed I did), I just know what I've seen in my years of working with people and computers. Lots of smart people don't file their documents and eschew the use of any significant organisational strategy. It's a fact jack.
  • Reply 440 of 507
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,598member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    They do offer an Pad Camera Connection Kit for the device. Of course, that means nothing and I can see no editing in Photos or iPod. Note they don't call it iPhoto or iTunes.



    They may only allow the manipulation but only through a 3rd-party app. They may add it later once the device gets more established. Isn't the first non-Mac with Apple-created apps for robust document creation and editing as an option?



    For now, at least, there's no editing.
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