My perception of the system after a year, it really gets slower, or its just my case... who knows.
I am relatively new to mac. Got my first (aluminum macbook) as an xmas present to myself just over a year ago. I was amazed how reliable and fast the system is compared to my win experience, its been a usual practice for me to clean install win every 3 or 4 months to get it running smoothly. However, i noticed a slowdown after a year, but still its bloody good performance compared to win.
Around 2 months ago i updated to 10.6.2 and it sucks compared to 10.5.8 or even 10.5.5 (which I originally received with my book). So i tried to clean install it and ... still sucks. I notice so many issues that posting them all to apple support was like writing a book.
Someone up the thread mentioned that its impossible to have more than a week of uptime. This is so true for me. in 10.5 i used not to restart my book for months.
Long story short, i'm currently back on 10.5.8 and after reading all your posts surely waiting at least till 10.6.5 to try it on again.
I'm waiting for that update... I mean, since Panther the quality is falling down pretty fast and SL is no exception: the Dock dying, network drives impossible to eject, the keyboard doing seppuku, the calculator committing suicide... Yeah, even the Calculator program is unstable ! I'm using a Mac at work and under Panther having 30 days of uptime was common; now I hardly reach a week. And rebooting is a very expensive task.
One week ago I spent two hours to take back to life my input system (I'm in Japan) which preferences died: I was not able to type anything (even the virtual keyboard was blank) and I had to connect via ssh through another computer to move my preference file. Yesterday I had the focus blocked on the Finder and my MAC was turned into a zombie: even the [alt]+[command]+[echap] was broken. And since they added Spaces (nice thing btw), it is acting pretty strangely with [Command]+[Tab].
I mean, it's nice they develop cool eye candy and wonderful APIs, but the first objective of an OS is to improve the productivity of the user.
I miss and Panther and Win2K...
What the hell have you done to your Mac? Seriously. You have issues that are not normal
I only want the USB fix for VM's. It makes the use of VM software a bit of a pain when the USB port doesn't play well with audio devices under a USB. I don't use QuickTime X so I don't really care much one way or the other. Everything else has been solid for me.
My impression is the snow leopard is snappier but more unstable, a few dock and menu freezes eg. that were never the case for me in leopard.
But in any case apple had the courtesy and business acumen to sell sl at a bargain price. Very smart move in a lot of respects.
Thanks for everyone explaining the state of the nation on QT X, wasn't really aware of most of that.
It will be nice to get a rewritten itunes at some point too, though I don't think performance wise it will be that great to begin with. So, it's a good idea they obviously kept it in development under wraps for this long.
And while we are at it on system degradation, unless a serious study/test is performed I really think we can't make a case for it either way. What I would like to suggest to anyone (esp. new mac users) is that they use superduper to make a sandboxed copy of their hd (no user files, just applications and system) which will be a very small size by todays standards, and have it handy to in case everything goes tits up. It's a good safeguarding measure to have a solid, problem free install of the os with all the apps you 've installed, and it's dead easy to replicate in any emergency situation or boot from. And of course onyx is handy and free, and diskwarrior is also supposed to help with directory integrity and structure for maintenance though I am clueless as to how much it does so.
On another note I wonder how much of sl quirks is also down to some incompatibility with some leopard/tiger applications.
OS X gets slower and slower over time too, it's just not as noticeable as Windows.
To see it, one has to benchmark after every update, using a clean drive with nothing else on it but the basic install. Same RAM, video card etc.
Sometimes a update actually improves performance, but the trend is for it to slow down. If it didn't, Apple couldn't sell you a new box.
I have my macpro that I purchased brand new in 2006, I have never done a clean install on it since purchase, every version of mac osx that has been released, I have done an upgrade. My machine still runs fast without a hitch, mac osx for me has never slowed down from updates to present.
Only thing I notice going slower/sluggish and unstable is Safari. At least, with 4.0.4 or whatever was before 4.0.5. After a week or 4 of uptime I noticed it became sluggish an general unstable as in where page loads seems to no load nicely.
Even a restart of Safari didn't help there. Reboot of the machine worked though, but perhaps a re-login would have helped as well.
Wowzai. Sounds to me like your machine is very very sick. My two macs with Snow Leopard often run the cpu to the hilt (Logic, Cubase, Ableton) - small hiccups but nothing like the horrors you describe. I'd start with memtest86!
Quote:
Originally Posted by yopmaster
I'm waiting for that update... I mean, since Panther the quality is falling down pretty fast and SL is no exception: the Dock dying, network drives impossible to eject, the keyboard doing seppuku, the calculator committing suicide... Yeah, even the Calculator program is unstable ! I'm using a Mac at work and under Panther having 30 days of uptime was common; now I hardly reach a week. And rebooting is a very expensive task.
One week ago I spent two hours to take back to life my input system (I'm in Japan) which preferences died: I was not able to type anything (even the virtual keyboard was blank) and I had to connect via ssh through another computer to move my preference file. Yesterday I had the focus blocked on the Finder and my MAC was turned into a zombie: even the [alt]+[command]+[echap] was broken. And since they added Spaces (nice thing btw), it is acting pretty strangely with [Command]+[Tab].
I mean, it's nice they develop cool eye candy and wonderful APIs, but the first objective of an OS is to improve the productivity of the user.
Please get Quickktime X to work properly for once. And Apple thinks Flash is a CPU hog?
Do you have any clue how sad it is that you keep returning to a place that wants absolutely nothing to do with you? Please PM a complete list of all the current user names that you intend to abuse in the future so I can prepare my ignore list. That's a respectful request for someone who has no respect for this forum.
--
Quicktime X is used for 2 purposes. Playback, and covert to iPhone format. It doesn't need anything else. Trim is there if necessary.
Other wise, use iMovie. It takes anyone an hour to figure out iMovie for the first time, and from there you can make fast edits for the rest of your life.
I have my macpro that I purchased brand new in 2006, I have never done a clean install on it since purchase, every version of mac osx that has been released, I have done an upgrade. My machine still runs fast without a hitch, mac osx for me has never slowed down from updates to present.
I hope 10.6.3 hits soon. I heard they've done a major overhaul of the graphics drivers and that we're going to see excellent performance improvements across most chipsets.
And this is just in time for Valve's software coming to the platform. I have a feeling that this is not just coincidence.
Of course there's the chance that it'll break some things too, but that's what making a Time Machine backup just before upgrading is for. Reverting is a few clicks away.
Of course there's the chance that it'll break some things too, but that's what making a Time Machine backup just before upgrading is for. Reverting is a few clicks away.
I'm sure it will. I'm not sure if the OS design allows for it, but having a rollback feature á la Windows would be nice. Time Machine is great for backing up and restoring data but it's absolutely awful for removing a system update. Snow Leopard just got a 'Put Back" feature for Trash so my guess is Apple wont be offering it with 10.7.
How many years should software remain hidden in the Cupertino without being released because it doesn't have a particular feature that someone may prefer over an earlier version? Some people didn't care for the iMovie 08 redesign so they released 06 for awhile. Personally, I much prefer when a SW company rethinks the problems instead of just piling on features to antiquated design because that is what sells. I tend to like Apple because of this, not in spite of this.
People get used to the way software works though and when Apple keep changing it at random then it breaks what people have learned and they have to build new workflows around it. For home users it's fine but in business, it's not and it's not good enough to say don't upgrade because the OS comes with new machines. Quicktime X doesn't even show the bitrate during playback nor allow you to switch to viewing frame numbers vs time. This was a deliberate simplification of Quicktime, not merely leaving the most complex features out like the editing controls, filters, track extraction, property editing etc.
And it's not as if they give you the option to keep one or the other, you have to keep Quicktime X and 7 Pro is an afterthought that gets dropped in your utilities folder. It's not a utility but they wanted to make sure it was sufficiently hidden to avoid confusion (as it clearly would to some) and also mark it for execution.
I like how they push software forward too but I hate how they do it by branching off some less functional app and then discontinuing or ignoring the old software as if the new one covers the job. They did this with Motion. Killed off legacy Shake and gave us some dumbed down motion graphics package. It's been 3.5 years since they marked the EOL and Motion still isn't as functional - although isn't really the same class of software but a valid example nonetheless.
I don't want to see there come a day when Quicktime X is left with just a trim command (seriously, who has ever edited a film by just trimming it?) and Quicktime Pro just gets forgotten about.
I have my macpro that I purchased brand new in 2006, I have never done a clean install on it since purchase, every version of mac osx that has been released, I have done an upgrade. My machine still runs fast without a hitch, mac osx for me has never slowed down from updates to present.
You obviously weren't very observant. 10.5.1 or 10.5.2 had bugs that slowed the boot process down, probably due to caches not working correctly. Lots of people noticed it back then, although it was dismissed until after it was fixed (including by me), when it became obvious things had been broken.
I don't want to see there come a day when Quicktime X is left with just a trim command (seriously, who has ever edited a film by just trimming it?) and Quicktime Pro just gets forgotten about.
As nifty as QT7 is for the average consumer iMovie is much easier to wrap your head around the first time. I'm glad they updated QuickTime as a real player and not some hybrid player/pro-editor.
I use QTX if I want to watch a video or if I want to grab a clip. Anything more complex I'd grab QT7 but I come from when iMovie wasn't available. If that wasn't the case I'd just use iMovie to stitch video and alter audio tracks.
How many people honestly bought the Pro version anyway? I don't think too many so the argument seems moot. We know have the best of both worlds.
Comments
And your evidence is?
My perception of the system after a year, it really gets slower, or its just my case... who knows.
I am relatively new to mac. Got my first (aluminum macbook) as an xmas present to myself just over a year ago. I was amazed how reliable and fast the system is compared to my win experience, its been a usual practice for me to clean install win every 3 or 4 months to get it running smoothly. However, i noticed a slowdown after a year, but still its bloody good performance compared to win.
Around 2 months ago i updated to 10.6.2 and it sucks compared to 10.5.8 or even 10.5.5 (which I originally received with my book). So i tried to clean install it and ... still sucks. I notice so many issues that posting them all to apple support was like writing a book.
Someone up the thread mentioned that its impossible to have more than a week of uptime. This is so true for me. in 10.5 i used not to restart my book for months.
Long story short, i'm currently back on 10.5.8 and after reading all your posts surely waiting at least till 10.6.5 to try it on again.
I'm waiting for that update... I mean, since Panther the quality is falling down pretty fast and SL is no exception: the Dock dying, network drives impossible to eject, the keyboard doing seppuku, the calculator committing suicide... Yeah, even the Calculator program is unstable ! I'm using a Mac at work and under Panther having 30 days of uptime was common; now I hardly reach a week. And rebooting is a very expensive task.
One week ago I spent two hours to take back to life my input system (I'm in Japan) which preferences died: I was not able to type anything (even the virtual keyboard was blank) and I had to connect via ssh through another computer to move my preference file. Yesterday I had the focus blocked on the Finder and my MAC was turned into a zombie: even the [alt]+[command]+[echap] was broken. And since they added Spaces (nice thing btw), it is acting pretty strangely with [Command]+[Tab].
I mean, it's nice they develop cool eye candy and wonderful APIs, but the first objective of an OS is to improve the productivity of the user.
I miss and Panther and Win2K...
What the hell have you done to your Mac? Seriously. You have issues that are not normal
I only want the USB fix for VM's. It makes the use of VM software a bit of a pain when the USB port doesn't play well with audio devices under a USB. I don't use QuickTime X so I don't really care much one way or the other. Everything else has been solid for me.
But in any case apple had the courtesy and business acumen to sell sl at a bargain price. Very smart move in a lot of respects.
Thanks for everyone explaining the state of the nation on QT X, wasn't really aware of most of that.
It will be nice to get a rewritten itunes at some point too, though I don't think performance wise it will be that great to begin with. So, it's a good idea they obviously kept it in development under wraps for this long.
And while we are at it on system degradation, unless a serious study/test is performed I really think we can't make a case for it either way. What I would like to suggest to anyone (esp. new mac users) is that they use superduper to make a sandboxed copy of their hd (no user files, just applications and system) which will be a very small size by todays standards, and have it handy to in case everything goes tits up. It's a good safeguarding measure to have a solid, problem free install of the os with all the apps you 've installed, and it's dead easy to replicate in any emergency situation or boot from. And of course onyx is handy and free, and diskwarrior is also supposed to help with directory integrity and structure for maintenance though I am clueless as to how much it does so.
On another note I wonder how much of sl quirks is also down to some incompatibility with some leopard/tiger applications.
OS X gets slower and slower over time too, it's just not as noticeable as Windows.
To see it, one has to benchmark after every update, using a clean drive with nothing else on it but the basic install. Same RAM, video card etc.
Sometimes a update actually improves performance, but the trend is for it to slow down. If it didn't, Apple couldn't sell you a new box.
I have my macpro that I purchased brand new in 2006, I have never done a clean install on it since purchase, every version of mac osx that has been released, I have done an upgrade. My machine still runs fast without a hitch, mac osx for me has never slowed down from updates to present.
Even a restart of Safari didn't help there. Reboot of the machine worked though, but perhaps a re-login would have helped as well.
I'm waiting for that update... I mean, since Panther the quality is falling down pretty fast and SL is no exception: the Dock dying, network drives impossible to eject, the keyboard doing seppuku, the calculator committing suicide... Yeah, even the Calculator program is unstable ! I'm using a Mac at work and under Panther having 30 days of uptime was common; now I hardly reach a week. And rebooting is a very expensive task.
One week ago I spent two hours to take back to life my input system (I'm in Japan) which preferences died: I was not able to type anything (even the virtual keyboard was blank) and I had to connect via ssh through another computer to move my preference file. Yesterday I had the focus blocked on the Finder and my MAC was turned into a zombie: even the [alt]+[command]+[echap] was broken. And since they added Spaces (nice thing btw), it is acting pretty strangely with [Command]+[Tab].
I mean, it's nice they develop cool eye candy and wonderful APIs, but the first objective of an OS is to improve the productivity of the user.
I miss and Panther and Win2K...
OS X gets slower and slower over time too, it's just not as noticeable as Windows.
To see it, one has to benchmark after every update, using a clean drive with nothing else on it but the basic install. Same RAM, video card etc.
Sometimes a update actually improves performance, but the trend is for it to slow down. If it didn't, Apple couldn't sell you a new box.
Check out Lloyd Chambers' review. His testing showed SL to consistently outperform Leopard, at least for photography related software.
Please get Quickktime X to work properly for once. And Apple thinks Flash is a CPU hog?
Do you have any clue how sad it is that you keep returning to a place that wants absolutely nothing to do with you? Please PM a complete list of all the current user names that you intend to abuse in the future so I can prepare my ignore list. That's a respectful request for someone who has no respect for this forum.
--
Quicktime X is used for 2 purposes. Playback, and covert to iPhone format. It doesn't need anything else. Trim is there if necessary.
Other wise, use iMovie. It takes anyone an hour to figure out iMovie for the first time, and from there you can make fast edits for the rest of your life.
I have my macpro that I purchased brand new in 2006, I have never done a clean install on it since purchase, every version of mac osx that has been released, I have done an upgrade. My machine still runs fast without a hitch, mac osx for me has never slowed down from updates to present.
Don't feed them.
And this is just in time for Valve's software coming to the platform. I have a feeling that this is not just coincidence.
Of course there's the chance that it'll break some things too, but that's what making a Time Machine backup just before upgrading is for. Reverting is a few clicks away.
I hope 10.6.3 hits soon.
My guess is that it will drop today at 4:50pm EST
Of course there's the chance that it'll break some things too, but that's what making a Time Machine backup just before upgrading is for. Reverting is a few clicks away.
I'm sure it will. I'm not sure if the OS design allows for it, but having a rollback feature á la Windows would be nice. Time Machine is great for backing up and restoring data but it's absolutely awful for removing a system update. Snow Leopard just got a 'Put Back" feature for Trash so my guess is Apple wont be offering it with 10.7.
I wish Apple would hire someone who knows something about consistent interface design....
uh, when you click the "post" button; who do you think you are posting your comment to?
This is Apple Insider; not Apple Inc.
oh, oh, silly me. I get it.
Shnookums just wanted some attention. Widdle techie weckie studdie wuddie is wonely.
And you quoted him, thereby bypassing the ignore list that everyone else has him on. Thanks.
And you quoted him, thereby bypassing the ignore list that everyone else has him on. Thanks.
Hey. Don't blame me for AI constantly letting him re register with a new name!
I have "techstud" and "TEKSTUD" in my ignore list. Now I have to add "TECHSTUD".
..and on it will go.
(but at least my comment was accurate)
My guess is Tuesday?right before CanSecWest.
My guess is Tuesday?right before CanSecWest.
Interesting thought, but I have two concerns...
How many years should software remain hidden in the Cupertino without being released because it doesn't have a particular feature that someone may prefer over an earlier version? Some people didn't care for the iMovie 08 redesign so they released 06 for awhile. Personally, I much prefer when a SW company rethinks the problems instead of just piling on features to antiquated design because that is what sells. I tend to like Apple because of this, not in spite of this.
People get used to the way software works though and when Apple keep changing it at random then it breaks what people have learned and they have to build new workflows around it. For home users it's fine but in business, it's not and it's not good enough to say don't upgrade because the OS comes with new machines. Quicktime X doesn't even show the bitrate during playback nor allow you to switch to viewing frame numbers vs time. This was a deliberate simplification of Quicktime, not merely leaving the most complex features out like the editing controls, filters, track extraction, property editing etc.
And it's not as if they give you the option to keep one or the other, you have to keep Quicktime X and 7 Pro is an afterthought that gets dropped in your utilities folder. It's not a utility but they wanted to make sure it was sufficiently hidden to avoid confusion (as it clearly would to some) and also mark it for execution.
I like how they push software forward too but I hate how they do it by branching off some less functional app and then discontinuing or ignoring the old software as if the new one covers the job. They did this with Motion. Killed off legacy Shake and gave us some dumbed down motion graphics package. It's been 3.5 years since they marked the EOL and Motion still isn't as functional - although isn't really the same class of software but a valid example nonetheless.
I don't want to see there come a day when Quicktime X is left with just a trim command (seriously, who has ever edited a film by just trimming it?) and Quicktime Pro just gets forgotten about.
I have my macpro that I purchased brand new in 2006, I have never done a clean install on it since purchase, every version of mac osx that has been released, I have done an upgrade. My machine still runs fast without a hitch, mac osx for me has never slowed down from updates to present.
You obviously weren't very observant. 10.5.1 or 10.5.2 had bugs that slowed the boot process down, probably due to caches not working correctly. Lots of people noticed it back then, although it was dismissed until after it was fixed (including by me), when it became obvious things had been broken.
I don't want to see there come a day when Quicktime X is left with just a trim command (seriously, who has ever edited a film by just trimming it?) and Quicktime Pro just gets forgotten about.
As nifty as QT7 is for the average consumer iMovie is much easier to wrap your head around the first time. I'm glad they updated QuickTime as a real player and not some hybrid player/pro-editor.
I use QTX if I want to watch a video or if I want to grab a clip. Anything more complex I'd grab QT7 but I come from when iMovie wasn't available. If that wasn't the case I'd just use iMovie to stitch video and alter audio tracks.
How many people honestly bought the Pro version anyway? I don't think too many so the argument seems moot. We know have the best of both worlds.