Let the hackers hack. They paid for the hardware, let them do what they want.
Apple doesn't implement everything on old platforms because they have decided the experience is not of a high enough quality for the user.
Take Leopard on a sub-866Mhz G4 or any version of OSX on a pre-G3 (a long time ago): it runs, but not very well.
Hackers help Apple make the platform MORE stable. Each hack gets blocked. They have found security holes galore and Apple isn't always too quick to close them, unfortunately.
I no longer have my iPhone 1G, but if I did, it would be jailbroken and running anything that keeps it useful.
hummmm'' well I had to jailbreak in order to use another sim in another country...or else I would have to buy another device...."which is crazy...just sell this wonderful device open and there will be no need...."only in the U.S. If I would have got this somewhere else in asia it may have been sold open...to use with whom I choose whether it be prepaid sim or contract.... there are more users in asia than most of the world and alot of them dont have contracts ....and they also buy open ..none locked to carrier devices....I have had both since Ive been here and find that prepaid is the way to go because my data charges were wayyyy outta line .....because there was no data unlimited plan for the phone......
It is far better for Apple to say "no" to multitasking on low RAM devices than to say "yes" and have millions of end users get frustrated with apps "crashing" on them.
It's the lack of RAM that has made be decide to return the iPad. Safari pages reload too often which would make typing this up in Safari, switching to another app or Safari page and then popping back to finish this post frustrating if the page reloads and I have to type it up from scratch.
hummmm'' well I had to jailbreak in order to use another sim in another country...or else I would have to buy another device...."which is crazy...just sell this wonderful device open and there will be no need...."only in the U.S. If I would have got this somewhere else in asia it may have been sold open...to use with whom I choose whether it be prepaid sim or contract.... there are more users in asia than most of the world and alot of them dont have contracts ....and they also buy open ..none locked to carrier devices....I have had both since Ive been here and find that prepaid is the way to go because my data charges were wayyyy outta line .....because there was no data unlimited plan for the phone......
The business model in Asia is completely different from USA. USA model, people do not want to pay the full price for a phone and so thats how mobile carriers support the cost, but request you lock-in with them for approx. 2 yrs. In India especially people want to change plans constantly to get the best rate possible and do not like being locked in.
Btw the above is not Apple problem, but your phone carrier and if you did not pay for full cost of the phone, then what right do you have to say it should be unlocked. You can purchase a unlocked phone on eBay, it will be FULL price and then you can do what you want.
Please do not complain, when you have not pay full price for the phone and then want to jump ship, after mobile carrier has supported you. Thats not just for iPhone, but any phone. I purchased a unlocked iPhone 3GS at full price, simply because I want freedom, but I knew it would be at a cost.
I jailbreak my iPhone. I also buy software from iTunes and I buy software from jailbreak developers. I pay for all my software. I jailbreak so that I can customize my phone to the way I want it to be not to steal software. None of the people I know with jailbroken phones steal software. The ignorance in this forum astounds me.
This is the real deal right here. Most people jailbreak for cosmetic reasons. Apps that enable these cosmetic changes require apps that only work on jailbroken phones. Totally non-malicious. The only negative side effect is that your phone might become slower/crahes etc. No security vulnerabilities are exposed when using apps that are related directly to cosmetic changes. Does not affect other iPhone users' experiences.
hummmm'' well I had to jailbreak in order to use another sim in another country...or else I would have to buy another device...."which is crazy...just sell this wonderful device open and there will be no need...."only in the U.S. If I would have got this somewhere else in asia it may have been sold open...to use with whom I choose whether it be prepaid sim or contract.... there are more users in asia than most of the world and alot of them dont have contracts ....and they also buy open ..none locked to carrier devices....I have had both since Ive been here and find that prepaid is the way to go because my data charges were wayyyy outta line .....because there was no data unlimited plan for the phone......
most people, not everyone. I happen to know a few who have jailbroken phones but that's up to them. The iPhone was sold here(Canada) a year after they went on sale in the US. One of them went there because he couldn't wait for it to come here. The others waited till it came to Canada and they still chose to break it. I wonder why? Actually I do.
Btw, let's not use the "only US" BS in posts, okay? I live in Canada and we have 4 telcos that sell the iphone.
Jailbreaking introduces the unpredictability and removes the stableness which is half of the point with the iPhone OS.
Jailbreaking makes them less stable? Are you joking? This reminds me of the cracked Cubase 3 when the rls group bypassed the Syncrosoft protection making Cubase MORE stable and less resource hog. That's the real art of cracking, making corp controlled software usable.
In a way, Apple's deathgrip on the iPhone is why they exist.
In a way, this is true. I see them as combat engineers. They're the ones that break through the "defenses" Apple has thrown up to keep the iPhone looking the way they want. This opens the door for the others to come in and get apps, like the ones listed above, to better the user experience.
Of course, all of this is "do at your own risk".
Right and they also allow me to use different SIM cards in a phone I paid for... Rather then getting raped by the phone companies when roaming.
Jailbroken iPhone's in China number in the several of millions, grossly out-numbering the more expensive and monitored legally sold ones. The main reason is the Chinese government only allows wifi-less versions of the iPhone to be sold by Apple there.
So all those people are running code by some unknowns, when Apple could offer a method to free the device without using risky software.
the majority of iPhones used in China are not "jailbroken". They are stock carrier unlocked phones sold in Hong Kong and many other places.
Woz's "way" can be fun for some technical people who like to tinker, and Woz's "way" is brilliant from a product development perspective, but that is not of interest to Apple when they think about their markets (and I suspect the company would be dead years ago it if catered excessively to that way). It's why so many people, forced to tinker with their shoddy Windows OS, are steadily moving to the calm waters of the Mac/iPhone OS's.
It would seem the "advanced user control" option you speak of is largely what apps you choose to use. Its obvious the capability of iPhone OS devices changes dramatically with your customized application suite (I can control my Sonos music system, change channels on Tivo, control lights around my house, etc.)
If you believe Jobs real notion is that most people are ignorant, you are seriously missing the essential focus of Apple. In reality. a vast majority of people don't need or want to be bothered by the underbelly of technology. They want to pick something up and have it perform great without need to tweak, customize, hack, or otherwise have to sweat to make things work. Their high degree of success in merging sophisticated function & simple form (HW and GUI) is exactly why they are growing at an appreciable rate.
A more controlled system rather than a more uncontrolled system is essential to achieve this because you can (relatively) have a reliably high degree of certainty as to what is being executed on the system to preserve the user experience. If anything, there are far more sloppy and inefficient developers than "ignorant" consumers, and crappy third party apps can ruin the experience Apple has spend considerable resources building (i.e. their disgust for Flash). Another good reason for strict developer guidelines (and I suspect good developers appreciate high standards).
Beyond this, Apple also needs to assure its business partners that it will do what it reasonably can to protect the ecosystem that developers/media firms are investing resources to support (ie App store, iBookstore, iTMS, etc.). A wild-west mentality wouldn't give many companies a good feeling about their return on investment with Apple.
What else - the iPhone SDK is available to anyone, and Apple will distribute your accepted app freely if there's need you have that isn't met. The next iPhone OS offers a ton more API's for third party developers, so great functionality is to become even greater. And since the iPhone OS HAS been hacked so many times, maybe Apple isn't trying that hard to stop you - striking a balance that largely protect the stability of their system, but allowing those with enough geek muscle to scale the barrier and hack away to meet their ultimate burning desires.
So at the end of it all, if none of this reasoning or options make sense to someone, Apple clearly is not the right choice for - stay with Windows are Linux, and dive deep into the muck - why continue to bang one's head against a wall for something that was so ill-fitting to the needs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn
There is obviously a problem if so many people jailbreak their Apple devices.
Lot of people are of the "Woz notion" that computers and devices should be open and obey the owner.
The "Jobs notion" is people are ignorant, their devices need to be closed and controlled by mother Apple.
I agree for some the Job's way is the right way, but for most others the Woz way is the better path as proven by the open nature of desktop PC's flooding the world.
My guess would be some sort of compromise, allowing advanced users more control over their devices, but not as detrimental as jail-breaking software and the risks it's entails.
Bull. They're not trying to make squat better - they just want to "see if they can" because it's nothing but a challenge for them to try and prove themselves...
Nice waste of first post. Get a clue. Apple has stolen ideas, icons, and features from the jailbreak community since it was born, which was might I add, days after the 1st gen was released in 2007. Most of the great new features that Apple has rolled out in 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, and now 4.0, were ALL born on jailbroken iPhones and available as awesome customizations thaks to Jay Freeman and Cydia.
The entire concept of the App Store and even the f'ing APP STORE ICON was stolen from Installer.app
It's the lack of RAM that has made be decide to return the iPad. Safari pages reload too often which would make typing this up in Safari, switching to another app or Safari page and then popping back to finish this post frustrating if the page reloads and I have to type it up from scratch.
What the hell are you talking about? Not on my iPad.
Bull. They're not trying to make squat better - they just want to "see if they can" because it's nothing but a challenge for them to try and prove themselves...
Mayabe so but the god news is they announced it whilst it is in beta allowing time for Apple to make changes. They didn't keep quiet and exploit it for nefarious ends later. So I tend to come down on the side that this is good not bad at this point.
It's the lack of RAM that has made be decide to return the iPad. Safari pages reload too often which would make typing this up in Safari, switching to another app or Safari page and then popping back to finish this post frustrating if the page reloads and I have to type it up from scratch.
Hey sol, just tried to recreate that in my iPad 32 gig and can't, I am using iPad now and have been almost continuously since Saturday. I did get some weird crashes in Safari on Monday so I treated it like an iPhone and did a reboot. I haven't had that issue again. I left this entry just then and ran a few orther apps and even other Safari pages and returned here and it was sitting exactly whe I left it. What Ram config did you have, maybe the base line model?
I do think the new stuff shown in iPhone 4.0 when brought to the iPad will be a massive improvement and I am baffled by no such thing was even alluded to in the presentation
My only issue is getting used to the auto caps as I keep hitting shift at the start of a paragraph. I'd like it to know it's a cap even if I hit caps.
So what? The iPhone OS is good enough now that you won't need to JB... big deal!
Plus, Apple does multitasking with resourcefulness and the JB does it sitting next to a wall receptacle. these hackers will NEVER be able to do anything better than Apple can... just a bunch of kids in the JB community trying to be revolutionaries he he. Well, Apple showed them a thing or ten he he... services for one! Also, you don't have to worry about exploits in and around the hacking cults. You all SUCK! Get a real JOB!
They are not trying to ruin anything., They are trying to make it better.
By inserting malicious code in their applications... that's making it better huh? You probably only have an iPhone that you stole off someone he he. All it takes is to JB your phone and go do some online banking... boy, that's making it all better all right he he...
Nice waste of first post. Get a clue. Apple has stolen ideas, icons, and features from the jailbreak community since it was born, which was might I add, days after the 1st gen was released in 2007. Most of the great new features that Apple has rolled out in 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, and now 4.0, were ALL born on jailbroken iPhones and available as awesome customizations thaks to Jay Freeman and Cydia.
The entire concept of the App Store and even the f'ing APP STORE ICON was stolen from Installer.app
WTF are you talking about?
Well why didn't they invent it then professor WTF? The iPhone works fine and the JB is a battery hog and makes the phone VERY, VERY sluggish. If they are so fricking bright, why didn't they create the apps and the foundation to conserve power then? You don't know what the hell your talking about and the JB thing is dead now with OS 4, just face it. Bye bye... go play with your little toys.
the business model in asia is completely different from usa. Usa model, people do not want to pay the full price for a phone and so thats how mobile carriers support the cost, but request you lock-in with them for approx. 2 yrs. In india especially people want to change plans constantly to get the best rate possible and do not like being locked in.
Btw the above is not apple problem, but your phone carrier and if you did not pay for full cost of the phone, then what right do you have to say it should be unlocked. You can purchase a unlocked phone on ebay, it will be full price and then you can do what you want.
Please do not complain, when you have not pay full price for the phone and then want to jump ship, after mobile carrier has supported you. Thats not just for iphone, but any phone. I purchased a unlocked iphone 3gs at full price, simply because i want freedom, but i knew it would be at a cost.
Comments
Ford doesn't want you operating your car in certain ways either.
Wow, where would Ford be today if everyday dudes didn't roll up their sleeves and grab their wrenches? Would Ford even be mentioned in racing?
Apple doesn't implement everything on old platforms because they have decided the experience is not of a high enough quality for the user.
Take Leopard on a sub-866Mhz G4 or any version of OSX on a pre-G3 (a long time ago): it runs, but not very well.
Hackers help Apple make the platform MORE stable. Each hack gets blocked. They have found security holes galore and Apple isn't always too quick to close them, unfortunately.
I no longer have my iPhone 1G, but if I did, it would be jailbroken and running anything that keeps it useful.
Most of them are too cheap to buy software.
hummmm'' well I had to jailbreak in order to use another sim in another country...or else I would have to buy another device...."which is crazy...just sell this wonderful device open and there will be no need...."only in the U.S. If I would have got this somewhere else in asia it may have been sold open...to use with whom I choose whether it be prepaid sim or contract.... there are more users in asia than most of the world and alot of them dont have contracts ....and they also buy open ..none locked to carrier devices....I have had both since Ive been here and find that prepaid is the way to go because my data charges were wayyyy outta line .....because there was no data unlimited plan for the phone......
It is far better for Apple to say "no" to multitasking on low RAM devices than to say "yes" and have millions of end users get frustrated with apps "crashing" on them.
It's the lack of RAM that has made be decide to return the iPad. Safari pages reload too often which would make typing this up in Safari, switching to another app or Safari page and then popping back to finish this post frustrating if the page reloads and I have to type it up from scratch.
hummmm'' well I had to jailbreak in order to use another sim in another country...or else I would have to buy another device...."which is crazy...just sell this wonderful device open and there will be no need...."only in the U.S. If I would have got this somewhere else in asia it may have been sold open...to use with whom I choose whether it be prepaid sim or contract.... there are more users in asia than most of the world and alot of them dont have contracts ....and they also buy open ..none locked to carrier devices....I have had both since Ive been here and find that prepaid is the way to go because my data charges were wayyyy outta line .....because there was no data unlimited plan for the phone......
The business model in Asia is completely different from USA. USA model, people do not want to pay the full price for a phone and so thats how mobile carriers support the cost, but request you lock-in with them for approx. 2 yrs. In India especially people want to change plans constantly to get the best rate possible and do not like being locked in.
Btw the above is not Apple problem, but your phone carrier and if you did not pay for full cost of the phone, then what right do you have to say it should be unlocked. You can purchase a unlocked phone on eBay, it will be FULL price and then you can do what you want.
Please do not complain, when you have not pay full price for the phone and then want to jump ship, after mobile carrier has supported you. Thats not just for iPhone, but any phone. I purchased a unlocked iPhone 3GS at full price, simply because I want freedom, but I knew it would be at a cost.
I jailbreak my iPhone. I also buy software from iTunes and I buy software from jailbreak developers. I pay for all my software. I jailbreak so that I can customize my phone to the way I want it to be not to steal software. None of the people I know with jailbroken phones steal software. The ignorance in this forum astounds me.
This is the real deal right here. Most people jailbreak for cosmetic reasons. Apps that enable these cosmetic changes require apps that only work on jailbroken phones. Totally non-malicious. The only negative side effect is that your phone might become slower/crahes etc. No security vulnerabilities are exposed when using apps that are related directly to cosmetic changes. Does not affect other iPhone users' experiences.
It's the lack of RAM that has made be decide to return the iPad. ...
Ditto.
hummmm'' well I had to jailbreak in order to use another sim in another country...or else I would have to buy another device...."which is crazy...just sell this wonderful device open and there will be no need...."only in the U.S. If I would have got this somewhere else in asia it may have been sold open...to use with whom I choose whether it be prepaid sim or contract.... there are more users in asia than most of the world and alot of them dont have contracts ....and they also buy open ..none locked to carrier devices....I have had both since Ive been here and find that prepaid is the way to go because my data charges were wayyyy outta line .....because there was no data unlimited plan for the phone......
most people, not everyone. I happen to know a few who have jailbroken phones but that's up to them. The iPhone was sold here(Canada) a year after they went on sale in the US. One of them went there because he couldn't wait for it to come here. The others waited till it came to Canada and they still chose to break it. I wonder why? Actually I do.
Btw, let's not use the "only US" BS in posts, okay? I live in Canada and we have 4 telcos that sell the iphone.
Jailbreaking introduces the unpredictability and removes the stableness which is half of the point with the iPhone OS.
Jailbreaking makes them less stable? Are you joking? This reminds me of the cracked Cubase 3 when the rls group bypassed the Syncrosoft protection making Cubase MORE stable and less resource hog. That's the real art of cracking, making corp controlled software usable.
In a way, Apple's deathgrip on the iPhone is why they exist.
In a way, this is true. I see them as combat engineers. They're the ones that break through the "defenses" Apple has thrown up to keep the iPhone looking the way they want. This opens the door for the others to come in and get apps, like the ones listed above, to better the user experience.
Of course, all of this is "do at your own risk".
Right and they also allow me to use different SIM cards in a phone I paid for... Rather then getting raped by the phone companies when roaming.
Jailbroken iPhone's in China number in the several of millions, grossly out-numbering the more expensive and monitored legally sold ones. The main reason is the Chinese government only allows wifi-less versions of the iPhone to be sold by Apple there.
So all those people are running code by some unknowns, when Apple could offer a method to free the device without using risky software.
the majority of iPhones used in China are not "jailbroken". They are stock carrier unlocked phones sold in Hong Kong and many other places.
Woz's "way" can be fun for some technical people who like to tinker, and Woz's "way" is brilliant from a product development perspective, but that is not of interest to Apple when they think about their markets (and I suspect the company would be dead years ago it if catered excessively to that way). It's why so many people, forced to tinker with their shoddy Windows OS, are steadily moving to the calm waters of the Mac/iPhone OS's.
It would seem the "advanced user control" option you speak of is largely what apps you choose to use. Its obvious the capability of iPhone OS devices changes dramatically with your customized application suite (I can control my Sonos music system, change channels on Tivo, control lights around my house, etc.)
If you believe Jobs real notion is that most people are ignorant, you are seriously missing the essential focus of Apple. In reality. a vast majority of people don't need or want to be bothered by the underbelly of technology. They want to pick something up and have it perform great without need to tweak, customize, hack, or otherwise have to sweat to make things work. Their high degree of success in merging sophisticated function & simple form (HW and GUI) is exactly why they are growing at an appreciable rate.
A more controlled system rather than a more uncontrolled system is essential to achieve this because you can (relatively) have a reliably high degree of certainty as to what is being executed on the system to preserve the user experience. If anything, there are far more sloppy and inefficient developers than "ignorant" consumers, and crappy third party apps can ruin the experience Apple has spend considerable resources building (i.e. their disgust for Flash). Another good reason for strict developer guidelines (and I suspect good developers appreciate high standards).
Beyond this, Apple also needs to assure its business partners that it will do what it reasonably can to protect the ecosystem that developers/media firms are investing resources to support (ie App store, iBookstore, iTMS, etc.). A wild-west mentality wouldn't give many companies a good feeling about their return on investment with Apple.
What else - the iPhone SDK is available to anyone, and Apple will distribute your accepted app freely if there's need you have that isn't met. The next iPhone OS offers a ton more API's for third party developers, so great functionality is to become even greater. And since the iPhone OS HAS been hacked so many times, maybe Apple isn't trying that hard to stop you - striking a balance that largely protect the stability of their system, but allowing those with enough geek muscle to scale the barrier and hack away to meet their ultimate burning desires.
So at the end of it all, if none of this reasoning or options make sense to someone, Apple clearly is not the right choice for - stay with Windows are Linux, and dive deep into the muck - why continue to bang one's head against a wall for something that was so ill-fitting to the needs?
There is obviously a problem if so many people jailbreak their Apple devices.
Lot of people are of the "Woz notion" that computers and devices should be open and obey the owner.
The "Jobs notion" is people are ignorant, their devices need to be closed and controlled by mother Apple.
I agree for some the Job's way is the right way, but for most others the Woz way is the better path as proven by the open nature of desktop PC's flooding the world.
My guess would be some sort of compromise, allowing advanced users more control over their devices, but not as detrimental as jail-breaking software and the risks it's entails.
Bull. They're not trying to make squat better - they just want to "see if they can" because it's nothing but a challenge for them to try and prove themselves...
Nice waste of first post. Get a clue. Apple has stolen ideas, icons, and features from the jailbreak community since it was born, which was might I add, days after the 1st gen was released in 2007. Most of the great new features that Apple has rolled out in 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, and now 4.0, were ALL born on jailbroken iPhones and available as awesome customizations thaks to Jay Freeman and Cydia.
The entire concept of the App Store and even the f'ing APP STORE ICON was stolen from Installer.app
WTF are you talking about?
It's the lack of RAM that has made be decide to return the iPad. Safari pages reload too often which would make typing this up in Safari, switching to another app or Safari page and then popping back to finish this post frustrating if the page reloads and I have to type it up from scratch.
What the hell are you talking about? Not on my iPad.
Bull. They're not trying to make squat better - they just want to "see if they can" because it's nothing but a challenge for them to try and prove themselves...
Mayabe so but the god news is they announced it whilst it is in beta allowing time for Apple to make changes. They didn't keep quiet and exploit it for nefarious ends later. So I tend to come down on the side that this is good not bad at this point.
It's the lack of RAM that has made be decide to return the iPad. Safari pages reload too often which would make typing this up in Safari, switching to another app or Safari page and then popping back to finish this post frustrating if the page reloads and I have to type it up from scratch.
Hey sol, just tried to recreate that in my iPad 32 gig and can't, I am using iPad now and have been almost continuously since Saturday. I did get some weird crashes in Safari on Monday so I treated it like an iPhone and did a reboot. I haven't had that issue again. I left this entry just then and ran a few orther apps and even other Safari pages and returned here and it was sitting exactly whe I left it. What Ram config did you have, maybe the base line model?
I do think the new stuff shown in iPhone 4.0 when brought to the iPad will be a massive improvement and I am baffled by no such thing was even alluded to in the presentation
My only issue is getting used to the auto caps as I keep hitting shift at the start of a paragraph. I'd like it to know it's a cap even if I hit caps.
Plus, Apple does multitasking with resourcefulness and the JB does it sitting next to a wall receptacle. these hackers will NEVER be able to do anything better than Apple can... just a bunch of kids in the JB community trying to be revolutionaries he he. Well, Apple showed them a thing or ten he he... services for one!
They are not trying to ruin anything., They are trying to make it better.
By inserting malicious code in their applications... that's making it better huh? You probably only have an iPhone that you stole off someone he he. All it takes is to JB your phone and go do some online banking... boy, that's making it all better all right he he...
Nice waste of first post. Get a clue. Apple has stolen ideas, icons, and features from the jailbreak community since it was born, which was might I add, days after the 1st gen was released in 2007. Most of the great new features that Apple has rolled out in 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, and now 4.0, were ALL born on jailbroken iPhones and available as awesome customizations thaks to Jay Freeman and Cydia.
The entire concept of the App Store and even the f'ing APP STORE ICON was stolen from Installer.app
WTF are you talking about?
Well why didn't they invent it then professor WTF? The iPhone works fine and the JB is a battery hog and makes the phone VERY, VERY sluggish. If they are so fricking bright, why didn't they create the apps and the foundation to conserve power then? You don't know what the hell your talking about and the JB thing is dead now with OS 4, just face it. Bye bye... go play with your little toys.
the business model in asia is completely different from usa. Usa model, people do not want to pay the full price for a phone and so thats how mobile carriers support the cost, but request you lock-in with them for approx. 2 yrs. In india especially people want to change plans constantly to get the best rate possible and do not like being locked in.
Btw the above is not apple problem, but your phone carrier and if you did not pay for full cost of the phone, then what right do you have to say it should be unlocked. You can purchase a unlocked phone on ebay, it will be full price and then you can do what you want.
Please do not complain, when you have not pay full price for the phone and then want to jump ship, after mobile carrier has supported you. Thats not just for iphone, but any phone. I purchased a unlocked iphone 3gs at full price, simply because i want freedom, but i knew it would be at a cost.
+1