because I will ACT A FOOL in the store until the cops come to remove me from the store...
I would humbly suggest that the better method would be to look for something to trip over inside the Apple store. Steel yourself, stumble over something in the store, bang your head, spurt blood, scream for an ambulance, contact lawyer, use settlement money to buy new iPhone.
see, much better than ACTING A FOOL!
edit: This post was made in jest as this type of scenario is exactly why tort reform is needed in the US. I do not advocate the employment of these shenanigans!
I've always been a bit skeptical about the moisture sensors, especially the external ones. First, I'm not convinced that something designed to turn color from contact with moisture can't be activated by simply being exposed to normal ambient humidity.
All electronic devices work under "normal humidity" which I think goes upto about 60% for the iPhone.
At 60%+ humidity the phone isn't guaranteed to work. So if the indicator triggers because of that (60%+ humidity) then Apple doesn't haven't to replace it, as they say it won't work in those cases.
We have covered the situation the indicators change the colour just because the temperature. You just go outside/inside. Or you just send the phone to the service for repair. It leaves your home with white LCIs but is delivered to the service with red ones.
However, let me be clear. I am not saying that Apple's employees always use this information correctly or even that Apple's policies are correct--I do not know if their guidelines follow what I outline above. But I can easily sat that the indicator's value has to be nill because of false positives is bad reasoning.
Yes, if you reread my original post, you'll see that I did not they have some value as a negative indicator.
Good question, though, about whether Apple employees are using the indicator data correctly, or always following guidelines for their use correctly. The answer almost certainly is that not all are, regardless of what the guidelines are.
All electronic devices work under "normal humidity" which I think goes upto about 60% for the iPhone.
At 60%+ humidity the phone isn't guaranteed to work. So if the indicator triggers because of that (60%+ humidity) then Apple doesn't haven't to replace it, as they say it won't work in those cases.
I'm sorry but the vast majority of users will lie through their teeth to get free repairs on something they caused damage to. They'll stare at you with cow eyes and swear on their mother's grave they didn't drop the thing in the toilet, really. I don't like the idea of paying even more for my Apple products because of unethical users. As Lex Luthor (Gene Hackman) once said to Superman, "People are no damned good."
Case in point. I was driving home from my girlfriend's house one night a number of years ago and hit a hug pothole. I pulled over to check the tire and was quite surprised to find that the rim wasn't bent and there was no bubble on the sidewall of the tire. However, I started to notice that the wheel was making a regular rhythmic noise. I knew right away that I had damaged something, probably the wheel bearing. Anyway, I took the car into the local Honda dealer and told them I was getting a weird noise from the right front tire/wheel but didn't mention that I hit a huge pothole. Anyway, they called me back a few hours later and told me they couldn't find any problem. I finally confessed that I hit a pothole and sure enough, they found the wheel bearing was damaged. The end result, I tried to pull one over on Honda for something that was my fault and failed. The repair cost me $325. The point is, I actually consider myself a pretty honest guy, but for whatever reason, I tried to get away with getting a free repair for something that was my fault.
lkrupp is absolutely right. People will lie through their teeth to get free repairs. I can attest to that.
I've also been on the other side of the equation, having done service for an A/V integrator. We got a lot of calls from people claiming various faults with their A/V systems or their custom-programmed remote controls. I can tell you that the majority of them were problems caused by user error or abuse. User error and abuse that they didn't want to own up to but that there was overwhelming evidence to support. Even when presented with the evidence, many still wouldn't own up to it. Others were like, "oh yeah, there was then time when I..."
If I was your boss, I would reprimand you behind closed doors, for not correcting the action, with retraining to staff for such actions. Firing someone cost more money to get new staff and train.
When you have staff that works directly with the public you simply can't afford the luxury of following such a path. If I find my self in a situation where I think someone on the otherside of the counter is docking around I will not let it go. How I deal with it depends upon the situation but i can assure you they will loose more business than my own.
Quote:
Btw Firing someone on spot in store full of customers sends the wrong message
That depends too. If someone has truely gotten out of hand with a customer then it might be the way to go. In most cases though I would agree it would be better to send them out the back door.
The fact remains though that many people simply shouldn't be involved in direct customer contact. That isn't a slight by the way because I doubt very much that I could do the job 8 hours a day, day after day.
By the way since this is my first response in this thread I'd have to say I'm on the womans side. Apple has really been getting sleazy with their environmental specs for one thing and mosture sensors in and of themselves mean little. I understand Apples issues, especially after all the recent fraud, but there is just to much evidence that these sensors do react with mosture in the air. Think about wearing glasses and walking outside say in Florida. You know when the water condenses on your glasses forming water droplets.
As to the non-sense alluded to above, the operating specs for Apples portable toys is so narrow as to make the product unsuitable for the advertised usage. Some of Apple devices are now only spec'ed for 80 or 90 degs F. Taken at face value that makes many of Apples portable devices unsuitable for use they are sold for. Even here in the great north it has been known to get above 80 or even 90 deg every once in a while. What am I suppose to do shut the thing off everytime a nice day rolls around. As much as I like my iPhone Apple needs to be taken out to the wood shed and whipped royally. You don't engineer products for the best conditions possible but rather for what is reasonable for where you expect to sell the product or see it used.
"This is a clear proof that LCI are NOT reliable and could turn red while the iPhone has been used under the defined environmental requirements defined by Apple. Here, only the condensing water could have been in contact with the sensor. In other words, even moving in and out during regular winter time will make you iPhone LCI turning red! This is a clear proof that can be used by customers who have been rejected for repair of their iPhone by Apple due to some redish or pinkish LCI... It could be correct to refuse a device under warranty if ALL LCI are red, but rejecting an iPhone for repair due to a reddish LCI in the audio jack plug is obviously not correct. Customers have now weapons to fight with Apple and potential ammunition for a legal action if an agreement can not be found."
This was the only time I walked out of a store swearing I would never go back. I had been using some instrument that you blow on the mic on the phone, and well, no warranty. The manager at the store took delight in exxolaining that any moisture was moisture, that it didn't matter.
A call to apple care the next day took care of it, and I am pretty sure the manager is gone now.
I am glad to see that someone is making progress on this front.
Just a tip to those who get nowhere with a Store Manger:
Call the main Apple coprporate number. Insist on speaking with Customer Relations. They will take care of you, according to some reports I have heard.
So which other phones did they apply the same conditions too?
You know, to act as controls?
That is called proof.
What about the phones internals, was there evidence of condensation on electrical components, in which case the LCI worked.
Besides, look at the "test" which required THREE attempts to get the result they wanted.
" So, they placed the iPhone IN ITS ENCLOSURE 1 hour outside at -11° C, then moved it inside at room temperature for 24 hours. They repeated the experiment 3 times, and after the third cycle they could show that the LCI located in the audio jack plug started turning red!"
Operating temperature: 32° to 95° F (0° to 35° C)
Non operating temperature: -4° to 113° F (-20° to 45° C)
Relative humidity: 5% to 95% non condensing
Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet (3000 m)
For anyone studying science, this is a very good example of how NOT to design an experiment.
"This is a clear proof that LCI are NOT reliable and could turn red while the iPhone has been used under the defined environmental requirements defined by Apple. Here, only the condensing water could have been in contact with the sensor. In other words, even moving in and out during regular winter time will make you iPhone LCI turning red! This is a clear proof that can be used by customers who have been rejected for repair of their iPhone by Apple due to some redish or pinkish LCI... It could be correct to refuse a device under warranty if ALL LCI are red, but rejecting an iPhone for repair due to a reddish LCI in the audio jack plug is obviously not correct. Customers have now weapons to fight with Apple and potential ammunition for a legal action if an agreement can not be found."
Given that you have all of one (1) post on this board ever, I'm calling you out as a troll.
Post count doesn't necessarily mean anything - other than a cheap distraction because you are lacking a real point. Some concept of a red herring and all that...
Quote:
Perhaps you need to read Apple news and boards a lot more and learn that falsely-triggered moisture sensors in iPhones are so common it's cliche.
Yes, because users self-reporting issues are very reliable. You never see people talking about ways to disguise abuse as a warranty claim. People are always 100% honest and never out to work the system for free benefits. Apple and other companies are always heartless bastards out to screw their customers.
Your right, it's obviously so black and white! What fools we all are.
Quote:
And that's Apple's fault, not the user's. Basically, via your ignorance, you fail. Badly.
Yup, your right. The self-centered entitlement mentality overwhelmingly displayed by our society, this attitude of "sticking it to the man" and the willingness to tell a little white lie here and there is totally Apple's fault.
Look, I won't deny there are documented issues with the external leak detection sensors - but I do know from personal experience that they won't outright reject a potential repair due to them alone - every time I have taken something in for repair they check both the internal and external sensors. I have had things repaired that had only the external sensors tripped. As others have stated, it's all in how you approach things and I have never had an issue with getting equipment serviced at the Genius Bar. Then again I'm not a raging asshole to the employee's with an overinflated attitude of self importance that is displayed by about half the complainers in this thread
hmmm. you know more than they do, so why do you go to a store? I assume the only reason is to get a repair ticket.. in which case you should make an appointment and net deal with the crowds.
if you go in there with the I'm smarter than you attitude, you won't get any help - or you'll pay for it.
I dropped my 3g and broke the glass.. it was well out of any warranty.. but I was really nice to the genius, even a little self deprecating. he took my phone, replaced the glass.. I said how much do I owe.. he said "it's on the house this time" and pointed at the door. those guys have some discretion. I'm sure this lady was a real bitch to the guy.. he said "f*ck you" no repair.
If you're nice.. they might overlook the accidental damage even if there's water dripping from the dock connector.
bottom line is.. when you walk into a store. the interaction is not between you and apple. it's between you and another human being.
if I was the genius, and some tool came in with the same attitude that you're expressing in your comment.. I'd make sure the repair process for you was as difficult as possible.
He, like a many of us, reads the Apple news sites and blogs. And he's right--there HAVE been an awful lot of reports of false-positive moisture sensors. It's no "opinion," it's fact
Uh, those are self-reported "facts" by people with a vested self-interest in the outcome.
Hardly evidence that would stand up in a court of law, for example. Internet tough guys complaining about self-reported problems hardly make a convincing argument. Your swipe at Fox news is even more deliciously ironic. Ignorant and tool are a few words floating around but I'm sure the point would be missed...
I'm sorry but the vast majority of users will lie through their teeth to get free repairs on something they caused damage to. They'll stare at you with cow eyes and swear on their mother's grave they didn't drop the thing in the toilet, really. I don't like the idea of paying even more for my Apple products because of unethical users. As Lex Luthor (Gene Hackman) once said to Superman, "People are no damned good."
Exactly. Even as water is dripping out of the phone. When I was still with sprint, the store I went to had a repair station that was in public view. This person brought in a phone to be "repaired" and swore up and down she had no idea what the problem was. They opened the phone and as the tech was holding in the air water was dripping out of it.
Watching her feign surprise and proclaim ignorance was nauseating. And you could tell the poor tech was disgusted by what was was more likely than not toilet water.
People are assholes about this stuff. Why do you think Apple puts leak detectors in their equipment anyway? Let's be honest (ha!) - how many times have you heard people talk about warranty fraud like it's no big deal? Or talk about things that are obviously warranty fraud and honestly don't see it as such? I don't blame Apple for protecting themselves and I look forward to seeing the outcome of this case (unless they settle - and then only the lawyers "win").
So which other phones did they apply the same conditions too?
You know, to act as controls?
That is called proof.
What about the phones internals, was there evidence of condensation on electrical components, in which case the LCI worked.
Other phones are a) irrelevant and b) would not serve as controls in this test (for example, they might not use the same LCI technology). The issue I see with the test is that they had the iPhone in a sealed chamber, apparently sealed inside, then took it outside in that chamber and then brought it back. One could argue that this sealed chamber is an artificial environment that one would not encounter in actual usage.
The one point in the operating specs that seems not straightforward is the word 'noncondensing'. What exactly do they mean by this? Fog? Conditions such as going from a cool dry environment to a warm humid environment? It's also a bit of a tricky ground. There's an implied warranty of "fitness for purpose" and although they can include language in the express warranty to limit or attempt negate that, they don't have complete free reign, unless they specifically disclaim all fitness for purpose. If you live in Florida, a place the iPhone is sold, going from a cool dry environment to a warm humid environment is normal use, in which case a customer would rightly have an expectation that the iPhone (or any phone) was fit for that purpose.
I think it would help a lot if we had available a technical description of how the LCI work, which would tell us a lot about what can trigger them and the likelihood of false internal positives. This particular lawsuit was inevitable if these were ever used to deny warranty coverage and, if nothing else, I expect a lot more information on the technology and reliability of LCI to come out as a result.
People are assholes about this stuff. Why do you think Apple puts leak detectors in their equipment anyway? Let's be honest (ha!) - how many times have you heard people talk about warranty fraud like it's no big deal? Or talk about things that are obviously warranty fraud and honestly don't see it as such? I don't blame Apple for protecting themselves and I look forward to seeing the outcome of this case (unless they settle - and then only the lawyers "win").
This is indeed a serious problem, and I can certainly appreciate Apple's desire to avoid getting scammed into doing repairs when people have actually abused devices. After all, the warranty and APP are like an insurance plan in that the expected costs to Apple are spread out across buyers as price to cover Apple's costs. So fraudulent claims end up costing Apple money, which probably ends up costing the rest of us money.
Fortunately for most, Apple isn't so capricious as to make it's warranty decisions based on whether or not a person is "nice" or "self-deprecating." It's no doubt based on evidence, policy, and whether or not the device is covered by warranty or AppleCare. Sometimes there's a positive outcome even after the warranty has expired (a few days say), because Apple and its employees truly bend over backward to find the right solution to surprise and delight every customer whenever possible. Unfortunately for some, the evidence doesn't always lead to a happy ending.
For example, should a phone, admittedly crushed by the electric seat in a car, be replaced for free in the name of "customer service?" "Accidental damage" is just a nice way of saying any damage not caused by a defect. Of course deliberate damage wouldn't be covered either. I've heard stories of people deliberately trashing their computer thinking they would get a free replacement (it wasn't a Mac). I don't know if they were successful, but that's called "fraud." Do warranties cover theft? Uh, no...that's the purpose of insurance. AppleCare isn't insurance, it's extended service and support for the items covered by the terms and conditions.
If this suit actually makes it to court, it probably won't succeed, as it's based on at least one fundamental error if not more. If either liquid contact indicator is red, the device will be opened up to see if the internal sensors have been tripped and whatever is found inside will dictate how the process will proceed from there. If the external indicator(s) are not red, than the device doesn't have to be opened up; as another poster stated, nobody's time is wasted.
Apple also doesn't work on jail broken phones because they're not within factory specs and performance can't be warranted. It will also not warrant a device that's undergone unauthorized "repairs," and they can tell when that's happened. All this is spelled out in black and white. Should Apple honor these cases anyway? It is a business, not a charity. Even so, I'll bet they will knowingly go ahead and replace a suspect item anyway.
As for the "evidence" posted on bulletin boards, what's that worth? For that matter, what's this post worth? It's an opinion, and opinion isn't fact.
Out of curiosity, why is a phone sitting in a bathroom during a hot shower anyway? Does the person intend to answer a call if the phone rings? Won't that get it wet? Can we not be away from our electronics for ten minutes? And think of the damage to the house if there's so much humidity in the bathroom that it "might" trip a sensor. I'd be checking that place for mould and mildew. ;?)
Comments
because I will ACT A FOOL in the store until the cops come to remove me from the store...
I would humbly suggest that the better method would be to look for something to trip over inside the Apple store. Steel yourself, stumble over something in the store, bang your head, spurt blood, scream for an ambulance, contact lawyer, use settlement money to buy new iPhone.
see, much better than ACTING A FOOL!
edit: This post was made in jest as this type of scenario is exactly why tort reform is needed in the US. I do not advocate the employment of these shenanigans!
I've always been a bit skeptical about the moisture sensors, especially the external ones. First, I'm not convinced that something designed to turn color from contact with moisture can't be activated by simply being exposed to normal ambient humidity.
All electronic devices work under "normal humidity" which I think goes upto about 60% for the iPhone.
At 60%+ humidity the phone isn't guaranteed to work. So if the indicator triggers because of that (60%+ humidity) then Apple doesn't haven't to replace it, as they say it won't work in those cases.
Duh!
http://mojejabluszko.pl/2010/02/15/ingerencja-cieczy/ (in Polish - use Google Trans)
And here is the video for the article: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mz27Mp2InE
However, let me be clear. I am not saying that Apple's employees always use this information correctly or even that Apple's policies are correct--I do not know if their guidelines follow what I outline above. But I can easily sat that the indicator's value has to be nill because of false positives is bad reasoning.
Yes, if you reread my original post, you'll see that I did not they have some value as a negative indicator.
Good question, though, about whether Apple employees are using the indicator data correctly, or always following guidelines for their use correctly. The answer almost certainly is that not all are, regardless of what the guidelines are.
All electronic devices work under "normal humidity" which I think goes upto about 60% for the iPhone.
At 60%+ humidity the phone isn't guaranteed to work. So if the indicator triggers because of that (60%+ humidity) then Apple doesn't haven't to replace it, as they say it won't work in those cases.
Duh!
Relative humidity: 5% to 95% noncondensing. Duh!
I'm sorry but the vast majority of users will lie through their teeth to get free repairs on something they caused damage to. They'll stare at you with cow eyes and swear on their mother's grave they didn't drop the thing in the toilet, really. I don't like the idea of paying even more for my Apple products because of unethical users. As Lex Luthor (Gene Hackman) once said to Superman, "People are no damned good."
Case in point. I was driving home from my girlfriend's house one night a number of years ago and hit a hug pothole. I pulled over to check the tire and was quite surprised to find that the rim wasn't bent and there was no bubble on the sidewall of the tire. However, I started to notice that the wheel was making a regular rhythmic noise. I knew right away that I had damaged something, probably the wheel bearing. Anyway, I took the car into the local Honda dealer and told them I was getting a weird noise from the right front tire/wheel but didn't mention that I hit a huge pothole. Anyway, they called me back a few hours later and told me they couldn't find any problem. I finally confessed that I hit a pothole and sure enough, they found the wheel bearing was damaged. The end result, I tried to pull one over on Honda for something that was my fault and failed. The repair cost me $325. The point is, I actually consider myself a pretty honest guy, but for whatever reason, I tried to get away with getting a free repair for something that was my fault.
lkrupp is absolutely right. People will lie through their teeth to get free repairs. I can attest to that.
I've also been on the other side of the equation, having done service for an A/V integrator. We got a lot of calls from people claiming various faults with their A/V systems or their custom-programmed remote controls. I can tell you that the majority of them were problems caused by user error or abuse. User error and abuse that they didn't want to own up to but that there was overwhelming evidence to support. Even when presented with the evidence, many still wouldn't own up to it. Others were like, "oh yeah, there was then time when I..."
If I was your boss, I would reprimand you behind closed doors, for not correcting the action, with retraining to staff for such actions. Firing someone cost more money to get new staff and train.
When you have staff that works directly with the public you simply can't afford the luxury of following such a path. If I find my self in a situation where I think someone on the otherside of the counter is docking around I will not let it go. How I deal with it depends upon the situation but i can assure you they will loose more business than my own.
Btw Firing someone on spot in store full of customers sends the wrong message
That depends too. If someone has truely gotten out of hand with a customer then it might be the way to go. In most cases though I would agree it would be better to send them out the back door.
The fact remains though that many people simply shouldn't be involved in direct customer contact. That isn't a slight by the way because I doubt very much that I could do the job 8 hours a day, day after day.
By the way since this is my first response in this thread I'd have to say I'm on the womans side. Apple has really been getting sleazy with their environmental specs for one thing and mosture sensors in and of themselves mean little. I understand Apples issues, especially after all the recent fraud, but there is just to much evidence that these sensors do react with mosture in the air. Think about wearing glasses and walking outside say in Florida. You know when the water condenses on your glasses forming water droplets.
As to the non-sense alluded to above, the operating specs for Apples portable toys is so narrow as to make the product unsuitable for the advertised usage. Some of Apple devices are now only spec'ed for 80 or 90 degs F. Taken at face value that makes many of Apples portable devices unsuitable for use they are sold for. Even here in the great north it has been known to get above 80 or even 90 deg every once in a while. What am I suppose to do shut the thing off everytime a nice day rolls around. As much as I like my iPhone Apple needs to be taken out to the wood shed and whipped royally. You don't engineer products for the best conditions possible but rather for what is reasonable for where you expect to sell the product or see it used.
Dave
The Proof That Liquid Contact Indicator in iPhones Are NOT Reliable
Summary:
"This is a clear proof that LCI are NOT reliable and could turn red while the iPhone has been used under the defined environmental requirements defined by Apple. Here, only the condensing water could have been in contact with the sensor. In other words, even moving in and out during regular winter time will make you iPhone LCI turning red! This is a clear proof that can be used by customers who have been rejected for repair of their iPhone by Apple due to some redish or pinkish LCI... It could be correct to refuse a device under warranty if ALL LCI are red, but rejecting an iPhone for repair due to a reddish LCI in the audio jack plug is obviously not correct. Customers have now weapons to fight with Apple and potential ammunition for a legal action if an agreement can not be found."
This was the only time I walked out of a store swearing I would never go back. I had been using some instrument that you blow on the mic on the phone, and well, no warranty. The manager at the store took delight in exxolaining that any moisture was moisture, that it didn't matter.
A call to apple care the next day took care of it, and I am pretty sure the manager is gone now.
I am glad to see that someone is making progress on this front.
Just a tip to those who get nowhere with a Store Manger:
Call the main Apple coprporate number. Insist on speaking with Customer Relations. They will take care of you, according to some reports I have heard.
You know, to act as controls?
That is called proof.
What about the phones internals, was there evidence of condensation on electrical components, in which case the LCI worked.
Besides, look at the "test" which required THREE attempts to get the result they wanted.
" So, they placed the iPhone IN ITS ENCLOSURE 1 hour outside at -11° C, then moved it inside at room temperature for 24 hours. They repeated the experiment 3 times, and after the third cycle they could show that the LCI located in the audio jack plug started turning red!"
Operating temperature: 32° to 95° F (0° to 35° C)
Non operating temperature: -4° to 113° F (-20° to 45° C)
Relative humidity: 5% to 95% non condensing
Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet (3000 m)
For anyone studying science, this is a very good example of how NOT to design an experiment.
Hopefully the plaintiff's lawyers read HardMac:
The Proof That Liquid Contact Indicator in iPhones Are NOT Reliable
Summary:
"This is a clear proof that LCI are NOT reliable and could turn red while the iPhone has been used under the defined environmental requirements defined by Apple. Here, only the condensing water could have been in contact with the sensor. In other words, even moving in and out during regular winter time will make you iPhone LCI turning red! This is a clear proof that can be used by customers who have been rejected for repair of their iPhone by Apple due to some redish or pinkish LCI... It could be correct to refuse a device under warranty if ALL LCI are red, but rejecting an iPhone for repair due to a reddish LCI in the audio jack plug is obviously not correct. Customers have now weapons to fight with Apple and potential ammunition for a legal action if an agreement can not be found."
Excuse me? You want a waterproof product then start a petition. You drop your phone in the toilet it's your problem.
Please don't be nasty. While a waterproof product would be great, I never asked for one.
What the fuck does "act of god" refer to anyway? And if one can demonstrate that there is no god does that invalidate the entire exclusion clause?
Given that you have all of one (1) post on this board ever, I'm calling you out as a troll.
Post count doesn't necessarily mean anything - other than a cheap distraction because you are lacking a real point. Some concept of a red herring and all that...
Perhaps you need to read Apple news and boards a lot more and learn that falsely-triggered moisture sensors in iPhones are so common it's cliche.
Yes, because users self-reporting issues are very reliable. You never see people talking about ways to disguise abuse as a warranty claim. People are always 100% honest and never out to work the system for free benefits. Apple and other companies are always heartless bastards out to screw their customers.
Your right, it's obviously so black and white! What fools we all are.
And that's Apple's fault, not the user's. Basically, via your ignorance, you fail. Badly.
Yup, your right. The self-centered entitlement mentality overwhelmingly displayed by our society, this attitude of "sticking it to the man" and the willingness to tell a little white lie here and there is totally Apple's fault.
Look, I won't deny there are documented issues with the external leak detection sensors - but I do know from personal experience that they won't outright reject a potential repair due to them alone - every time I have taken something in for repair they check both the internal and external sensors. I have had things repaired that had only the external sensors tripped. As others have stated, it's all in how you approach things and I have never had an issue with getting equipment serviced at the Genius Bar. Then again I'm not a raging asshole to the employee's with an overinflated attitude of self importance that is displayed by about half the complainers in this thread
hmmm. you know more than they do, so why do you go to a store? I assume the only reason is to get a repair ticket.. in which case you should make an appointment and net deal with the crowds.
if you go in there with the I'm smarter than you attitude, you won't get any help - or you'll pay for it.
I dropped my 3g and broke the glass.. it was well out of any warranty.. but I was really nice to the genius, even a little self deprecating. he took my phone, replaced the glass.. I said how much do I owe.. he said "it's on the house this time" and pointed at the door. those guys have some discretion. I'm sure this lady was a real bitch to the guy.. he said "f*ck you" no repair.
If you're nice.. they might overlook the accidental damage even if there's water dripping from the dock connector.
bottom line is.. when you walk into a store. the interaction is not between you and apple. it's between you and another human being.
if I was the genius, and some tool came in with the same attitude that you're expressing in your comment.. I'd make sure the repair process for you was as difficult as possible.
Spot on! No repair for you! NEXT!
He, like a many of us, reads the Apple news sites and blogs. And he's right--there HAVE been an awful lot of reports of false-positive moisture sensors. It's no "opinion," it's fact
Uh, those are self-reported "facts" by people with a vested self-interest in the outcome.
Hardly evidence that would stand up in a court of law, for example. Internet tough guys complaining about self-reported problems hardly make a convincing argument. Your swipe at Fox news is even more deliciously ironic. Ignorant and tool are a few words floating around but I'm sure the point would be missed...
I'm sorry but the vast majority of users will lie through their teeth to get free repairs on something they caused damage to. They'll stare at you with cow eyes and swear on their mother's grave they didn't drop the thing in the toilet, really. I don't like the idea of paying even more for my Apple products because of unethical users. As Lex Luthor (Gene Hackman) once said to Superman, "People are no damned good."
Exactly. Even as water is dripping out of the phone. When I was still with sprint, the store I went to had a repair station that was in public view. This person brought in a phone to be "repaired" and swore up and down she had no idea what the problem was. They opened the phone and as the tech was holding in the air water was dripping out of it.
Watching her feign surprise and proclaim ignorance was nauseating. And you could tell the poor tech was disgusted by what was was more likely than not toilet water.
People are assholes about this stuff. Why do you think Apple puts leak detectors in their equipment anyway? Let's be honest (ha!) - how many times have you heard people talk about warranty fraud like it's no big deal? Or talk about things that are obviously warranty fraud and honestly don't see it as such? I don't blame Apple for protecting themselves and I look forward to seeing the outcome of this case (unless they settle - and then only the lawyers "win").
So which other phones did they apply the same conditions too?
You know, to act as controls?
That is called proof.
What about the phones internals, was there evidence of condensation on electrical components, in which case the LCI worked.
Other phones are a) irrelevant and b) would not serve as controls in this test (for example, they might not use the same LCI technology). The issue I see with the test is that they had the iPhone in a sealed chamber, apparently sealed inside, then took it outside in that chamber and then brought it back. One could argue that this sealed chamber is an artificial environment that one would not encounter in actual usage.
The one point in the operating specs that seems not straightforward is the word 'noncondensing'. What exactly do they mean by this? Fog? Conditions such as going from a cool dry environment to a warm humid environment? It's also a bit of a tricky ground. There's an implied warranty of "fitness for purpose" and although they can include language in the express warranty to limit or attempt negate that, they don't have complete free reign, unless they specifically disclaim all fitness for purpose. If you live in Florida, a place the iPhone is sold, going from a cool dry environment to a warm humid environment is normal use, in which case a customer would rightly have an expectation that the iPhone (or any phone) was fit for that purpose.
I think it would help a lot if we had available a technical description of how the LCI work, which would tell us a lot about what can trigger them and the likelihood of false internal positives. This particular lawsuit was inevitable if these were ever used to deny warranty coverage and, if nothing else, I expect a lot more information on the technology and reliability of LCI to come out as a result.
People are assholes about this stuff. Why do you think Apple puts leak detectors in their equipment anyway? Let's be honest (ha!) - how many times have you heard people talk about warranty fraud like it's no big deal? Or talk about things that are obviously warranty fraud and honestly don't see it as such? I don't blame Apple for protecting themselves and I look forward to seeing the outcome of this case (unless they settle - and then only the lawyers "win").
This is indeed a serious problem, and I can certainly appreciate Apple's desire to avoid getting scammed into doing repairs when people have actually abused devices. After all, the warranty and APP are like an insurance plan in that the expected costs to Apple are spread out across buyers as price to cover Apple's costs. So fraudulent claims end up costing Apple money, which probably ends up costing the rest of us money.
For example, should a phone, admittedly crushed by the electric seat in a car, be replaced for free in the name of "customer service?" "Accidental damage" is just a nice way of saying any damage not caused by a defect. Of course deliberate damage wouldn't be covered either. I've heard stories of people deliberately trashing their computer thinking they would get a free replacement (it wasn't a Mac). I don't know if they were successful, but that's called "fraud." Do warranties cover theft? Uh, no...that's the purpose of insurance. AppleCare isn't insurance, it's extended service and support for the items covered by the terms and conditions.
If this suit actually makes it to court, it probably won't succeed, as it's based on at least one fundamental error if not more. If either liquid contact indicator is red, the device will be opened up to see if the internal sensors have been tripped and whatever is found inside will dictate how the process will proceed from there. If the external indicator(s) are not red, than the device doesn't have to be opened up; as another poster stated, nobody's time is wasted.
Apple also doesn't work on jail broken phones because they're not within factory specs and performance can't be warranted. It will also not warrant a device that's undergone unauthorized "repairs," and they can tell when that's happened. All this is spelled out in black and white. Should Apple honor these cases anyway? It is a business, not a charity. Even so, I'll bet they will knowingly go ahead and replace a suspect item anyway.
As for the "evidence" posted on bulletin boards, what's that worth? For that matter, what's this post worth? It's an opinion, and opinion isn't fact.
Out of curiosity, why is a phone sitting in a bathroom during a hot shower anyway? Does the person intend to answer a call if the phone rings? Won't that get it wet? Can we not be away from our electronics for ten minutes? And think of the damage to the house if there's so much humidity in the bathroom that it "might" trip a sensor. I'd be checking that place for mould and mildew. ;?)