I'm from Europe, never seen a phone with front facing camera.
Then open your eyes... If you really are "from Europe"...
Almost ALL consumer 3G phones for the non-US GSM markets have had front cameras and native videocalling capability for the last SEVEN years.
As has been mentioned, all it takes to make a video call is to dial someone's number and press video call. It does not go over an IP connection, and no iChat-alike appliations needed, it's native and built in. Almost all European networks have supported this for the best part of ten years. Try finding a consumer 3G handset without a front camera in those regions.
I'm in the UK and have been getting 100 free videocall minutes a month with my contract for the last five years. Apart from pissing around for the novelty factor, I've never used them, and nor has anyone else I know.
This is one tech flop that nobody ever cared about and would've been best staying in the movies along with cyber VR and furiously bleeping magic image enhancing mainframes with huge green fonts.
What's with the screen limitation to 640 x360 (x480 in the N810 tablet) pixel maximum?
Winmo, Android, iPhone OS (iPad) and others easily surpass this limitation.
Symbian finally seems to be getting transparency, one of those small things taken for granted in the first iPhone had almost three years ago.
The three homescreens came from Android 1.6 and Samsung's feature phone OS.
It's still not enough Nokia is doomed to selling cheap, feature stripped smartphone's to the lowest common denominator.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen
Never say never.
For unretouched photos from the development version of a phone that has a sensor roughly 30% bigger (1/1.83" vs. 1/2.5") than most point-and-shoots with 12 Mpix and Carl-Zeiss optics,720p video capture and HDMI out:
You must have missing the part about the N8 have the largest sensor size in a mobile phone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
What's with the screen limitation to 640 x360 (x480 in the N810 tablet) pixel maximum?
Winmo, Android, iPhone OS (iPad) and others easily surpass this limitation.
Wait, you are comparing the screen resolution of the N8 to the iPad? Ok, while we are at it, what is up with the screen limitation of the iPhone 320x480.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Symbian finally seems to be getting transparency, one of those small things taken for granted in the first iPhone had almost three years ago.
It is a pretty brave, or a fairly stupid, man that compares the current feature set of Symbian to the original iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
The three homescreens came from Android 1.6 and Samsung's feature phone OS.
And your point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
It's still not enough Nokia is doomed to selling cheap, feature stripped smartphone's to the lowest common denominator.
So when you walk past a Toyota dealer, so you laugh at them for selling the Yaris, or Corolla? Or when you are cleaning the shelves in K-Mart do you have a little cry about the stuff they sell?
Nokia 6700, E65, 2730, just a few 3G phones without this most underwhelming of features, Networks don't even bother including video calls in the features any more after several failed attempts at building up some hype.
My first attempt ended up with a very poor quality, low frame rate view of my fathers ear, he's a bit of a luddite and didn't quite get it.
Haven't really used it since.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ectoplasmosis
Then open your eyes... If you really are "from Europe"...
Almost ALL consumer 3G phones for the non-US GSM markets have had front cameras and native videocalling capability for the last SEVEN years.
As has been mentioned, all it takes to make a video call is to dial someone's number and press video call. It does not go over an IP connection, and no iChat-alike appliations needed, it's native and built in. Almost all European networks have supported this for the best part of ten years. Try finding a consumer 3G handset without a front camera in those regions.
I'm in the UK and have been getting 100 free videocall minutes a month with my contract for the last five years. Apart from pissing around for the novelty factor, I've never used them, and nor has anyone else I know.
This is one tech flop that nobody ever cared about and would've been best staying in the movies along with cyber VR and furiously bleeping magic image enhancing mainframes with huge green fonts.
Please actually read what was written. Like I said before, I used the N8 as an example of a phone with a sensor size larger than on an average P&S to counter a specific argument. It's useless to get into a feature war in general, there are no winners.
Feature wars are especially useless when very few people know all features of all devices. Someone will always come back and bite you proving you're wrong just like you proved that not all 3G phones have front facing cameras. Still a very large number do especially if it's a higher spec phone.
If you want to talk about multiple homescreens, tell me when did the first Maemo and/or Symbian with different homescreens come to market? Well before Android. I've had one in my pocket for two years and I don't know when the first ones were shipped. The N900 has several screens. Does Ã*Phone. It's still a pointless fact in view of built-in cameras on phones (the topic at hand).
imo phone should go for super high MP to compensate for the lack of a zoom. Its pretty amazing how you can zoom in 12MP pics and still have plenty of details.
a 12MP digital zoom will be the same has a 5MP camera with a 3x optical zoom.
No I am not. I was just commenting on the tentative nature of the headline (which now has been changed, apparently).
Why, does that mean you are? If so, please tell us?
Not at all. I was sincerely hoping you had some insights you could share.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou
imo phone should go for super high MP to compensate for the lack of a zoom. Its pretty amazing how you can zoom in 12MP pics and still have plenty of details.
a 12MP digital zoom will be the same has a 5MP camera with a 3x optical zoom.
How about a good sensor and qality pics at a given resolution instead of just a excessively high image sizes that are shitty.
Yes, but are iPod touch users going to get an equally effective camera? There are a lot of us who don't want or can't justify AT&T's pricey plan who'd like a productivity device with a decent camera. If nothing else, create a high-end iPod touch with both a camera and GPS.
What? Are you telling me that my NOKIA 6300 right next to me has a front facing camera even though it doesn't?
Yes, as it's a 2G phone.
Of course 3G handsets without videocalling capability exist, however they are few and far between and are mostly corporate environment-oriented or budget models restricted to pre-paid bundles. I also used to own an oddity called the Nokia 6630 that, aside from being styled after a pregnant Anne Widdecombe, supported videocalling but had no front camera.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling
Yes, but are iPod touch users going to get an equally effective camera? There are a lot of us who don't want or can't justify AT&T's pricey plan who'd like a productivity device with a decent camera. If nothing else, create a high-end iPod touch with both a camera and GPS.
What's to stop you buying a SIM-free/pre-paid iPhone? Don't know about the US but in the UK one can buy any model of iPhone on several different carriers outright without a contract for a reasonably justifiable price, and get a year's free "unlimited" data to boot.
imo phone should go for super high MP to compensate for the lack of a zoom. Its pretty amazing how you can zoom in 12MP pics and still have plenty of details.
a 12MP digital zoom will be the same has a 5MP camera with a 3x optical zoom.
Not at all. You obviously don't understand how digital cameras work.
Each pixel in a 12 MP array is smaller than the pixels in a 5 MP array - if everything else is equal. That degrades the low light capability and increases the noise (exponentially, IIRC).
Given the quality of the lenses in most cell phones, anything above about 3-5 MP is going to reduce the quality of the image, not improve it.
Read the reviews when each version of the iPHone came out. They universally said something like "while the resolution of this iPhone is lower than the competition, the pictures taken by the iPhone are at least as good as anything out there - and better than most).
You're doing exactly what everyone attacking Apple is doing. They pick their one pet specification and assume that if Apple simply increases that one item, the product will be better. Unfortunately, in the real world where there are tradeoffs, that's not the case.
The problem of course is that these high MP cell phone cameras often leave a lot to be desired. Frankly though I have little use for the camera on my iPhone.
Speaking of which Apple could go a long way to improving the iPhones camera by adding an advanced mode. Give us control over exposure and other parameters so we can compose decent shots.
In any event here is hoping for a real improvement inquality which ought to be possible given the rapid pace of innovation. The other thing I'm wondering about is does the vendor change reflect a falling out with the current vendor over the bungled Touch launch? I'm left with the impression that the last minute Touch changes really pissed off management at Apple.
Dave
I use my 3G camera a lot. I've gotten a lot of use out of it. What I find is that in good light and without motion, the pictures look good. Add motion (even move the camera too soon after shooting) or low light and forget it.
I don't need DSLR quality images. I need decent consumer quality...something that can replace a separate consumer grade digital camera and perhaps even take the place of my miniDV camera (the first one being the priority).
Right now, whatever camera it has will be a huge improvement. People that don't have 3Gs or original iPhones tend to forget: There's no zoom or video recording whatsoever, and we still are at 2 MP.
Comments
Not me, same surname, different person.
My bad. Apologies for the mistaken identity.
Regs, Jarkko
I'm from Europe, never seen a phone with front facing camera.
Then open your eyes... If you really are "from Europe"...
Almost ALL consumer 3G phones for the non-US GSM markets have had front cameras and native videocalling capability for the last SEVEN years.
As has been mentioned, all it takes to make a video call is to dial someone's number and press video call. It does not go over an IP connection, and no iChat-alike appliations needed, it's native and built in. Almost all European networks have supported this for the best part of ten years. Try finding a consumer 3G handset without a front camera in those regions.
I'm in the UK and have been getting 100 free videocall minutes a month with my contract for the last five years. Apart from pissing around for the novelty factor, I've never used them, and nor has anyone else I know.
This is one tech flop that nobody ever cared about and would've been best staying in the movies along with cyber VR and furiously bleeping magic image enhancing mainframes with huge green fonts.
Usual poor performing Symbian OS.
What's with the screen limitation to 640 x360 (x480 in the N810 tablet) pixel maximum?
Winmo, Android, iPhone OS (iPad) and others easily surpass this limitation.
Symbian finally seems to be getting transparency, one of those small things taken for granted in the first iPhone had almost three years ago.
The three homescreens came from Android 1.6 and Samsung's feature phone OS.
It's still not enough Nokia is doomed to selling cheap, feature stripped smartphone's to the lowest common denominator.
Never say never.
For unretouched photos from the development version of a phone that has a sensor roughly 30% bigger (1/1.83" vs. 1/2.5") than most point-and-shoots with 12 Mpix and Carl-Zeiss optics,720p video capture and HDMI out:
http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/...-n8-untouched/
SE is rumoured to do the same soon. The Koreans will copy quickly (Samsung already has 12Mpix but with a smaller sensor).
But those are only features that nobody wants
Regs, Jarkko
My bad. Apologies for the mistaken identity.
Regs, Jarkko
No problem at all.
The SonyEricsson Satio has been out for quite some time now.
You must have missing the part about the N8 have the largest sensor size in a mobile phone?
What's with the screen limitation to 640 x360 (x480 in the N810 tablet) pixel maximum?
Winmo, Android, iPhone OS (iPad) and others easily surpass this limitation.
Wait, you are comparing the screen resolution of the N8 to the iPad? Ok, while we are at it, what is up with the screen limitation of the iPhone 320x480.
Symbian finally seems to be getting transparency, one of those small things taken for granted in the first iPhone had almost three years ago.
It is a pretty brave, or a fairly stupid, man that compares the current feature set of Symbian to the original iPhone.
The three homescreens came from Android 1.6 and Samsung's feature phone OS.
And your point?
It's still not enough Nokia is doomed to selling cheap, feature stripped smartphone's to the lowest common denominator.
So when you walk past a Toyota dealer, so you laugh at them for selling the Yaris, or Corolla? Or when you are cleaning the shelves in K-Mart do you have a little cry about the stuff they sell?
My first attempt ended up with a very poor quality, low frame rate view of my fathers ear, he's a bit of a luddite and didn't quite get it.
Haven't really used it since.
Then open your eyes... If you really are "from Europe"...
Almost ALL consumer 3G phones for the non-US GSM markets have had front cameras and native videocalling capability for the last SEVEN years.
As has been mentioned, all it takes to make a video call is to dial someone's number and press video call. It does not go over an IP connection, and no iChat-alike appliations needed, it's native and built in. Almost all European networks have supported this for the best part of ten years. Try finding a consumer 3G handset without a front camera in those regions.
I'm in the UK and have been getting 100 free videocall minutes a month with my contract for the last five years. Apart from pissing around for the novelty factor, I've never used them, and nor has anyone else I know.
This is one tech flop that nobody ever cared about and would've been best staying in the movies along with cyber VR and furiously bleeping magic image enhancing mainframes with huge green fonts.
The SonyEricsson Satio has been out for quite some time now.
(... remaining irrelevant rant deleted)
Please actually read what was written. Like I said before, I used the N8 as an example of a phone with a sensor size larger than on an average P&S to counter a specific argument. It's useless to get into a feature war in general, there are no winners.
Feature wars are especially useless when very few people know all features of all devices. Someone will always come back and bite you proving you're wrong just like you proved that not all 3G phones have front facing cameras. Still a very large number do especially if it's a higher spec phone.
If you want to talk about multiple homescreens, tell me when did the first Maemo and/or Symbian with different homescreens come to market? Well before Android. I've had one in my pocket for two years and I don't know when the first ones were shipped. The N900 has several screens. Does Ã*Phone. It's still a pointless fact in view of built-in cameras on phones (the topic at hand).
Regs, Jarkko
Then open your eyes... If you really are "from Europe"...
Almost ALL consumer 3G phones for the non-US GSM markets have had front cameras and native videocalling capability for the last SEVEN years.
What? Are you telling me that my NOKIA 6300 right next to me has a front facing camera even though it doesn't?
What? Are you telling me that my NOKIA 6300 right next to me has a front facing camera even though it doesn't?
Naturally it doesn't as it's a 2G only phone... Videocalls are a 3G feature as mentioned before. But there are low-cost 3G phones without as well.
Regs, Jarkko
Does that mean you are aware of the quality of these camera modules?
No I am not. I was just commenting on the tentative nature of the headline (which now has been changed, apparently).
Why, does that mean you are? If so, please tell us?
a 12MP digital zoom will be the same has a 5MP camera with a 3x optical zoom.
No I am not. I was just commenting on the tentative nature of the headline (which now has been changed, apparently).
Why, does that mean you are? If so, please tell us?
Not at all. I was sincerely hoping you had some insights you could share.
imo phone should go for super high MP to compensate for the lack of a zoom. Its pretty amazing how you can zoom in 12MP pics and still have plenty of details.
a 12MP digital zoom will be the same has a 5MP camera with a 3x optical zoom.
How about a good sensor and qality pics at a given resolution instead of just a excessively high image sizes that are shitty.
Now I just wish Samsung would catch up with Apples OS
What? Are you telling me that my NOKIA 6300 right next to me has a front facing camera even though it doesn't?
Yes, as it's a 2G phone.
Of course 3G handsets without videocalling capability exist, however they are few and far between and are mostly corporate environment-oriented or budget models restricted to pre-paid bundles. I also used to own an oddity called the Nokia 6630 that, aside from being styled after a pregnant Anne Widdecombe, supported videocalling but had no front camera.
Yes, but are iPod touch users going to get an equally effective camera? There are a lot of us who don't want or can't justify AT&T's pricey plan who'd like a productivity device with a decent camera. If nothing else, create a high-end iPod touch with both a camera and GPS.
What's to stop you buying a SIM-free/pre-paid iPhone? Don't know about the US but in the UK one can buy any model of iPhone on several different carriers outright without a contract for a reasonably justifiable price, and get a year's free "unlimited" data to boot.
.
imo phone should go for super high MP to compensate for the lack of a zoom. Its pretty amazing how you can zoom in 12MP pics and still have plenty of details.
a 12MP digital zoom will be the same has a 5MP camera with a 3x optical zoom.
Not at all. You obviously don't understand how digital cameras work.
Each pixel in a 12 MP array is smaller than the pixels in a 5 MP array - if everything else is equal. That degrades the low light capability and increases the noise (exponentially, IIRC).
Given the quality of the lenses in most cell phones, anything above about 3-5 MP is going to reduce the quality of the image, not improve it.
Read the reviews when each version of the iPHone came out. They universally said something like "while the resolution of this iPhone is lower than the competition, the pictures taken by the iPhone are at least as good as anything out there - and better than most).
You're doing exactly what everyone attacking Apple is doing. They pick their one pet specification and assume that if Apple simply increases that one item, the product will be better. Unfortunately, in the real world where there are tradeoffs, that's not the case.
The problem of course is that these high MP cell phone cameras often leave a lot to be desired. Frankly though I have little use for the camera on my iPhone.
Speaking of which Apple could go a long way to improving the iPhones camera by adding an advanced mode. Give us control over exposure and other parameters so we can compose decent shots.
In any event here is hoping for a real improvement inquality which ought to be possible given the rapid pace of innovation. The other thing I'm wondering about is does the vendor change reflect a falling out with the current vendor over the bungled Touch launch? I'm left with the impression that the last minute Touch changes really pissed off management at Apple.
Dave
I use my 3G camera a lot. I've gotten a lot of use out of it. What I find is that in good light and without motion, the pictures look good. Add motion (even move the camera too soon after shooting) or low light and forget it.
I don't need DSLR quality images. I need decent consumer quality...something that can replace a separate consumer grade digital camera and perhaps even take the place of my miniDV camera (the first one being the priority).
Right now, whatever camera it has will be a huge improvement. People that don't have 3Gs or original iPhones tend to forget: There's no zoom or video recording whatsoever, and we still are at 2 MP.
So excited to upgrade!
Networks don't even bother including video calls in the features any more after several failed attempts at building up some hype.
But they are still available for use