Exactly....if you JB the iPhone then you have all the control you could ever want. Plus it so easy my 11 year old so did it to his touch..... without my help.....
Also it is not a bad thing to have another handset or phone out sell the iphone..... It will give Apple more incentive to improve and develop the iPhone. Sales are slow right now as EVERYONE is waiting for the new iPhone in June.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2
Because the Spirit jailbreak is hard...
The only people that genuinely feel restricted by the platform are also capable of jailbreaking their iPhone so I find it hard to believe that many people actually switch for this reason.
In other news, this advantage will be short lived. I do expect Android devices to consistently outsell iPhone OS devices at some point, but the new iPhone will still blow away Android sales when it launches.
Surveys are not a good source of sales figures. This whole thing is based on those "How many devices based on Android did you buy this year?" kind of questions. People lie on those things. A lot.
Particularly if the survey is self-selecting.
Who's more likely to answer a survey about Android cell phones? A geek who went out of his way to research and choose an Android phone or the average iPhone user? Obviously, the former.
Quote:
Originally Posted by icyfog
So when are the DOJ and FTC going to duke it out over which one will go after Google and its monoply?
Good point. Maybe this survey, even though it's worthless, will put to rest those "DOJ and FTC are going to sue Apple for illegal monopoly behavior" rumors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff
So android is gonna become the dell of phones. Doesn't bother me a long as apple continues to innovate.
Exactly. Apple doesn't care if other people want cheap phones. In fact, Android is going to work in Apple's favor in the long run. It will displace some of the other brands out there - yet it's abysmal in areas that Apple customers care about.
For example, the overwhelming majority of Android phone customers have NOT upgraded their OS. The main reasons given are related to fragmentation - and the fact that there's no single Android upgrade. You have to track down the one specific for your phone and OS version and then apply it manually. For most people, it's not worth the bother. The funny part will be when Flash 10.1 comes out - it's going to greatly highlight how much of a pain it is to upgrade an Android phone.
Bottom line is that Apple's ease of use advantage is even stronger against Android than against some of the other competitors - so Apple won't care. Apple also doesn't care about the cheap end of the market. They're in business to sell premium, high quality products, so they don't care who's feeding on the bottom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3
Not having the iPhone on Verizon, much less all carriers, for the past 3 years is basically the equivalent of not having iTunes on Windows. The iPod would have never been dominant if Windows users couldn't use it.
I agree - they've lost sales by not having the iPhone on Verizon. The problem with evaluating that fact is that we don't know what they've gotten in return. What if, for example, AT&T gave Apple $100 extra per phone to maintain exclusivity. If Apple lost 50% of its potential sales, that would be a bad deal. If they only lose 2% of potential sales, it would be a gold mine.
None of us has the detail needed to evaluate that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer
A poor analogy, considering the oil companies don't have produce different types of gasoline for different brands of car; the biggest market of phones running the same OS will get the most developer attention in the end.
Absolutely true. But, OTOH, if you're looking at how many eyeballs the platform provides rather than just the number of cell phones sold, then you need to include the iPod Touch and iPad (as well as any Android tablets if and when they appear). After all, an advertiser doesn't care if the person viewing their ad is on an iPod touch or an iPhone. If you do that, the iPhone is still handily in the lead.
A common but mistaken notion. Google is essentially paying handset manufacturers to build Android phones, so the idea that licensing iPhone OS would somehow mean they would all pay for that rather than have Google pay them to build Android phones doesn't make a lot of sense.
I don't see how it is a mistaken notion. Droid was still dads sperm when iPhone came out, so if as i said it would be available to other manufacturers even with some licensing fees iPhone OS would have penetrated the market long ago.
AT&T has roughly 89 million subscribers. How is AT&T growing faster than Verizon, if it is providing a service that is "beyond terrible?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig
On the other, the current iPhone is at the end of its lifecycle and both AT&T's service and the U.S. GSM network are beyond terrible. One could make an argument for getting second best to get Verizon's more expansive network.
This is an interesting number, but I?d want to know what?s the larges single, compatible Android platform?a common screen size and UI, capable of being updated to the newest OS, running all the same apps. Lumping all Android devices together combines some that aren?t entirely compatible. (For instance, I?d consider iPhone and iPod Touch compatible, but I wouldn?t personally could iPad toward that total. Different screen size, different apps, different OS version.)
I´ve mentioned a while ago that Apple needed to diversify it´s iPhone line like they did with the iPod.
Three versions,
1: Flip
2: Regular iPhone
3: Larger iPhone with more features, storage and connectivity
4: Buy outright and pay as you go options.
5: More carriers
Oh well, I think Steve is just grooming Apple for purchase/merger to Google anyway.
Not that Apple is infallible. but do you really think that Apple or Steve Jobs simply made decisions by throwing dart or something? Apple is reputed not to conduct "consumer group studies", perhaps because a "group think" is ephemeral and as good only as the sampling. That Apple does indeed attempt to consider consumer choices very seriously is apparent in the success of many devices it has introduced to the market.
When Steve Jobs came back to Apple the first thing he did was to reduce the number of computer choices down to four, if II am not mistaken -- down from hundreds of variants.
Have you considered the technical and production ramifications of having too many variants of a product? And how it would affect consumer behavior? From a consumer perspective: Can you for example name all the variants of the Nokia phones, and have all the time in the world to analyze them so that you can truly say you made the correct choice, after you selected one?
It is possible that Apple may someday offer variants of its products, especially those that are maturing.
In fact, many argued that the iPhone is nothing but a variation of the iPod, much as the iPod Touch is an evolution of the iPod. Similarly, the iPad may be viewed as another variant of the iPhone OS mobile computing devices:
iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad
In a sense, one could claim that the iPad (wifi) is larger iPod Touch. And, the iPad (3G) can be adopted to be a substitute (for some people) for the iPhone. There is a reason, more than likely why Apple has not opted to rollout a mini-iPhone, in spite of the certainty of pundits that it was to be the next variant coming out.
I can envision a time in the future when Apple may create variants of the iPads or the iPhone either in size or functionality. As to storage and RAM, this may be dictated by existing technology and cost, plus marketing price of the product.
I am sure that there are many other reasons. What we can be sure of is that Apple is very methodical and if we believe theeir public announcements, they do not integrate a technology before its time, or if has not met certain specifications.
Proofs of its success is its high profitability and the company that others look up to when it comes to products that appeal to consumers.
AT&T has roughly 89 million subscribers. How is AT&T growing faster than Verizon, if it is providing a service that is "beyond terrible?"
Agreed! I think the complaints are over exaggerated. I've been a customer since '99 and I rarely have problems. Of course, I'm only one customer out of close to 90 million.
So android is gonna become the dell of phones. Doesn't bother me a long as apple continues to innovate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmann
so, why all the fuss about volume? I guess it is meaningful because .. this is a "mine is bigger than yours" macho business? NO, it is the ongoing piss poor reporting that is mindless in the sense that it .. it .. it .. has no meaning except that now someone can say mine is bigger than yours.. or the sum of the parts are bigger than yours.. or the
oh i give up..
D
I'm confused. So is Apple the "Dell of MP3 players" because the iPod has something like 70+ percent marketshare? In a way, I think they are -- the iPod touch has been relatively stagnent feature-wise since it was released nearly three years ago. Hell, the second generation didn't even bump capacities.
You could also argue that the nano and shuffle haven't really adding anything groundbreaking in years (and in the case of the shuffle, features were removed) -- unless you want to call a camera on the nano innovative.
I do not waste my time in sites telling other people why I do not like it. Or lecture those people in those other sites that they must be idiots, fanbois, etc. because they made a choice or think differently than I do. I do not waste my time speculating why they chose one product or another.
The article we are all responding to said the Android based phones were out selling the iPhone........ My response was based on that report..... Apple fans are notorious for waiting to buy until after the new products are revealed at the WWDC. The unveiling of a new iPhone has been happening during this time frame for the past 3 years...... But after the new model then we can expect sales of the iPhine to pickup dramatically...... this is historical fact.... Apple is exceeding sales just about in all of their platforms right now and having record growth. So not really saying sales are slow just that when they report that Android based phones are outselling the iPhone....that won't be the case when the new iPhone is released or another US carrier is brought on board......
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
Where are you people seeing that sales are slow?
iPhone sales for this past quarter were up 131% year over year. Apple is making 8 times more revenue from that iPhone than it makes from the Mac.
The software on the iPod Touch has not been stagnant at all. Three major OS upgrades and 150,000 apps.
What do you think people care about the most? The screen resolution and processor speed? Or do they care about what the device can actually do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
.... the iPod touch has been relatively stagnent feature-wise since it was released nearly three years ago. Hell, the second generation didn't even bump capacities.
Yes all Android phones combined on all carriers combined are out selling the one iPhone on one carrier. That's no surprise. No one Android phone on any one carrier is outselling the iPhone by itself.
Apple is not interested in competing with Android for unit sales. Especially when its beating all Android phones combined on revenue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad
The article we are all responding to said the Android based phones were out selling the iPhone........ My response was based on that report..... Apple fans are notorious for waiting to buy until after the new products are revealed at the WWDC. The unveiling of a new iPhone has been happening during this time frame for the past 3 years...... But after the new model then we can expect sales of the iPhine to pickup dramatically...... this is historical fact.... Apple is exceeding sales just about in all of their platforms right now and having record growth. So not really saying sales are slow just that when they report that Android based phones are outselling the iPhone....that won't be the case when the new iPhone is released or another US carrier is brought on board......
I was a long time user of the iPhone since the second day of the first issued one. I recently got an Incredible not because I like the android. I wanted Verizon. I need a phone that worked. iPhone is great but At&T sucks. If Verizon gets the iPhone I will be back in a hart beat. As for now, I am happy with my four iPad 3g 64gb for the family. AT&T data is ok.
The software on the iPod Touch has not been stagnant at all. Three major OS upgrades and 150,000 apps.
What do you think people care about the most? The screen resolution and processor speed? Or do they care about what the device can actually do?
Well, Apple is upgrading the screen resolution and processing speed on the next generation iPhone, and the iPod touch as well (most likely) -- someone must care about it, right? After all, the competition has had higher rez screens for a while now.
With regards to the iPod touch, it still makes up a smaller fraction of iPod sales. The nano is the biggest seller IIRC, followed by the shuffle. The iPod touch outpaces them in $$$ generated though.
So again, I ask where's the innovation with those two devices (nano and shuffle)? When you're on top, there's little incentive to do anything "big".
So we see now that Android which has been out nearly as long as the iPhone, as a platform (read as in numbers of handsets running all variants of the Android OS) out numbers the iPhone installed base, much in the same way RIM Blackberries and Nokia handsets out number the iPhone installed base. This is not a bad thing - for if you recall, Steve Jobs said they would be HAPPY if they saw 1% of the installed market of handsets - which they have exceeded both in US and world numbers. Let's remember that Apple has been and continues to be a moving target. They have established the iPhone as a respectable competitor in a market that everyone said they would get they asses handed to them in (cellphones), and continue to drive a level of innovation in a previously stagnated market as well.
Let's see where all of this leads before we start pronouncing eulogies over the iPhone platform and Apple, OK?
Comments
On one hand, congratulations to google on its success.
On the other, the current iPhone is at the end of its lifecycle and the U.S. GSM network is beyond terrible.
Well, I live in Maryland and AT&T's service is fantastic for me here...
Also it is not a bad thing to have another handset or phone out sell the iphone..... It will give Apple more incentive to improve and develop the iPhone. Sales are slow right now as EVERYONE is waiting for the new iPhone in June.....
Because the Spirit jailbreak is hard...
The only people that genuinely feel restricted by the platform are also capable of jailbreaking their iPhone so I find it hard to believe that many people actually switch for this reason.
In other news, this advantage will be short lived. I do expect Android devices to consistently outsell iPhone OS devices at some point, but the new iPhone will still blow away Android sales when it launches.
This part is important not to forget though.
Surveys are not a good source of sales figures. This whole thing is based on those "How many devices based on Android did you buy this year?" kind of questions. People lie on those things. A lot.
Particularly if the survey is self-selecting.
Who's more likely to answer a survey about Android cell phones? A geek who went out of his way to research and choose an Android phone or the average iPhone user? Obviously, the former.
So when are the DOJ and FTC going to duke it out over which one will go after Google and its monoply?
Good point. Maybe this survey, even though it's worthless, will put to rest those "DOJ and FTC are going to sue Apple for illegal monopoly behavior" rumors.
So android is gonna become the dell of phones. Doesn't bother me a long as apple continues to innovate.
Exactly. Apple doesn't care if other people want cheap phones. In fact, Android is going to work in Apple's favor in the long run. It will displace some of the other brands out there - yet it's abysmal in areas that Apple customers care about.
For example, the overwhelming majority of Android phone customers have NOT upgraded their OS. The main reasons given are related to fragmentation - and the fact that there's no single Android upgrade. You have to track down the one specific for your phone and OS version and then apply it manually. For most people, it's not worth the bother. The funny part will be when Flash 10.1 comes out - it's going to greatly highlight how much of a pain it is to upgrade an Android phone.
Bottom line is that Apple's ease of use advantage is even stronger against Android than against some of the other competitors - so Apple won't care. Apple also doesn't care about the cheap end of the market. They're in business to sell premium, high quality products, so they don't care who's feeding on the bottom.
Not having the iPhone on Verizon, much less all carriers, for the past 3 years is basically the equivalent of not having iTunes on Windows. The iPod would have never been dominant if Windows users couldn't use it.
I agree - they've lost sales by not having the iPhone on Verizon. The problem with evaluating that fact is that we don't know what they've gotten in return. What if, for example, AT&T gave Apple $100 extra per phone to maintain exclusivity. If Apple lost 50% of its potential sales, that would be a bad deal. If they only lose 2% of potential sales, it would be a gold mine.
None of us has the detail needed to evaluate that.
A poor analogy, considering the oil companies don't have produce different types of gasoline for different brands of car; the biggest market of phones running the same OS will get the most developer attention in the end.
Absolutely true. But, OTOH, if you're looking at how many eyeballs the platform provides rather than just the number of cell phones sold, then you need to include the iPod Touch and iPad (as well as any Android tablets if and when they appear). After all, an advertiser doesn't care if the person viewing their ad is on an iPod touch or an iPhone. If you do that, the iPhone is still handily in the lead.
A common but mistaken notion. Google is essentially paying handset manufacturers to build Android phones, so the idea that licensing iPhone OS would somehow mean they would all pay for that rather than have Google pay them to build Android phones doesn't make a lot of sense.
I don't see how it is a mistaken notion. Droid was still dads sperm when iPhone came out, so if as i said it would be available to other manufacturers even with some licensing fees iPhone OS would have penetrated the market long ago.
Anyhow, these are only IFs...
On the other, the current iPhone is at the end of its lifecycle and both AT&T's service and the U.S. GSM network are beyond terrible. One could make an argument for getting second best to get Verizon's more expansive network.
I'm wondering if these are just knee-jerk responses to Apples' competition.
I´ve mentioned a while ago that Apple needed to diversify it´s iPhone line like they did with the iPod.
Three versions,
1: Flip
2: Regular iPhone
3: Larger iPhone with more features, storage and connectivity
4: Buy outright and pay as you go options.
5: More carriers
Oh well, I think Steve is just grooming Apple for purchase/merger to Google anyway.
Not that Apple is infallible. but do you really think that Apple or Steve Jobs simply made decisions by throwing dart or something? Apple is reputed not to conduct "consumer group studies", perhaps because a "group think" is ephemeral and as good only as the sampling. That Apple does indeed attempt to consider consumer choices very seriously is apparent in the success of many devices it has introduced to the market.
When Steve Jobs came back to Apple the first thing he did was to reduce the number of computer choices down to four, if II am not mistaken -- down from hundreds of variants.
Have you considered the technical and production ramifications of having too many variants of a product? And how it would affect consumer behavior? From a consumer perspective: Can you for example name all the variants of the Nokia phones, and have all the time in the world to analyze them so that you can truly say you made the correct choice, after you selected one?
It is possible that Apple may someday offer variants of its products, especially those that are maturing.
In fact, many argued that the iPhone is nothing but a variation of the iPod, much as the iPod Touch is an evolution of the iPod. Similarly, the iPad may be viewed as another variant of the iPhone OS mobile computing devices:
iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad
In a sense, one could claim that the iPad (wifi) is larger iPod Touch. And, the iPad (3G) can be adopted to be a substitute (for some people) for the iPhone. There is a reason, more than likely why Apple has not opted to rollout a mini-iPhone, in spite of the certainty of pundits that it was to be the next variant coming out.
I can envision a time in the future when Apple may create variants of the iPads or the iPhone either in size or functionality. As to storage and RAM, this may be dictated by existing technology and cost, plus marketing price of the product.
I am sure that there are many other reasons. What we can be sure of is that Apple is very methodical and if we believe theeir public announcements, they do not integrate a technology before its time, or if has not met certain specifications.
Proofs of its success is its high profitability and the company that others look up to when it comes to products that appeal to consumers.
CGC
iPhone sales for this past quarter were up 131% year over year. Apple is making more revenue from that iPhone than it makes from the Mac.
Sales are slow right now as EVERYONE is waiting for the new iPhone in June.....
AT&T has roughly 89 million subscribers. How is AT&T growing faster than Verizon, if it is providing a service that is "beyond terrible?"
Agreed! I think the complaints are over exaggerated. I've been a customer since '99 and I rarely have problems. Of course, I'm only one customer out of close to 90 million.
So android is gonna become the dell of phones. Doesn't bother me a long as apple continues to innovate.
so, why all the fuss about volume? I guess it is meaningful because .. this is a "mine is bigger than yours" macho business? NO, it is the ongoing piss poor reporting that is mindless in the sense that it .. it .. it .. has no meaning except that now someone can say mine is bigger than yours.. or the sum of the parts are bigger than yours.. or the
oh i give up..
D
I'm confused. So is Apple the "Dell of MP3 players" because the iPod has something like 70+ percent marketshare? In a way, I think they are -- the iPod touch has been relatively stagnent feature-wise since it was released nearly three years ago. Hell, the second generation didn't even bump capacities.
You could also argue that the nano and shuffle haven't really adding anything groundbreaking in years (and in the case of the shuffle, features were removed) -- unless you want to call a camera on the nano innovative.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here guys.
I do not waste my time in sites telling other people why I do not like it. Or lecture those people in those other sites that they must be idiots, fanbois, etc. because they made a choice or think differently than I do. I do not waste my time speculating why they chose one product or another.
Here, here! I agree wholeheartedly.
Where are you people seeing that sales are slow?
iPhone sales for this past quarter were up 131% year over year. Apple is making 8 times more revenue from that iPhone than it makes from the Mac.
What do you think people care about the most? The screen resolution and processor speed? Or do they care about what the device can actually do?
.... the iPod touch has been relatively stagnent feature-wise since it was released nearly three years ago. Hell, the second generation didn't even bump capacities.
.
Apple is not interested in competing with Android for unit sales. Especially when its beating all Android phones combined on revenue.
The article we are all responding to said the Android based phones were out selling the iPhone........ My response was based on that report..... Apple fans are notorious for waiting to buy until after the new products are revealed at the WWDC. The unveiling of a new iPhone has been happening during this time frame for the past 3 years...... But after the new model then we can expect sales of the iPhine to pickup dramatically...... this is historical fact.... Apple is exceeding sales just about in all of their platforms right now and having record growth. So not really saying sales are slow just that when they report that Android based phones are outselling the iPhone....that won't be the case when the new iPhone is released or another US carrier is brought on board......
The software on the iPod Touch has not been stagnant at all. Three major OS upgrades and 150,000 apps.
What do you think people care about the most? The screen resolution and processor speed? Or do they care about what the device can actually do?
Well, Apple is upgrading the screen resolution and processing speed on the next generation iPhone, and the iPod touch as well (most likely) -- someone must care about it, right? After all, the competition has had higher rez screens for a while now.
With regards to the iPod touch, it still makes up a smaller fraction of iPod sales. The nano is the biggest seller IIRC, followed by the shuffle. The iPod touch outpaces them in $$$ generated though.
So again, I ask where's the innovation with those two devices (nano and shuffle)? When you're on top, there's little incentive to do anything "big".
Let's see where all of this leads before we start pronouncing eulogies over the iPhone platform and Apple, OK?