there isn't a common API like Direct X that can hook into the deeper layers of OS X.
It's called OpenGL. And the nice thing about OpenGL is that it is multiplatform; you can use nearly the same graphics code on any operating system supporting OpenGL, including Linux and Windows as well.
Apple is actually improving their OpenGL code as we speak, and it's primarily due to Steam coming!
Wasn't the official word from Valve that the official release was this Wednesday? Now all we're getting is two games?
First they delay the official release from April to mid-May, now the official release is just a public beta and who know when we'll get the full thing. I wish Valve would stop jerking us around like this.
Apple owners should be happy that any major software vendor would make software for the Mac, on any schedule, at any time.
As an aside, for all the complaining we've heard in these forums about OS X lacking SLI/Crossfire support, it turns out that only about 2% of Steam users are using it.
The other thing to consider is that as video cards are updated, often a single card will perform as well as two of last year's cards.
SLI is only for people who upgrade constantly and need the very fastest and best. Those folks are PC folks. They wouldn't really consider a Mac even if it had SLI.
.. Really these companies are just trying to make a quick and easy buck. They know that gaming sucks so bad on Apple computers that they can throw a 3 year-old bone to us and lots of Mac users will jump all over it...
Anyways, with the 2 generation old, rebranded graphics in the new Macbook Pros, and no DirectX support in OSX, I don't think this will change too much about the mac as a gaming platform, except for people who don't mind playing with all graphics set to "low".
Good points. But a 3 year old bone is better than the current situation. Mac owners should all be very happy that a company is willing to write software for the Mac.
Ehrm - Telltale Games has done exactly this several months ago, when they released their Monkey Island episodes for Mac - also for free for customers owning the Windows-versions? :
If ANY big software company starts making title for the Mac, it is big news. It happens infrequently.
Why would you "bet" that? People thought the same thing when Steam was first released in 2003, and look at what happened since then.
This will be the start of the return of gaming on the Mac in a huge way. Great for developers and consumers alike.
The ONLY reason I used BootCamp was to be able to use Steam and play TF2 (why would I need to buy a gaming PC is I already had an iMac that had good enough specs?). Now I won't need to use Bootcamp anymore, NOR will I need to rebuy all of the Source Engines games (Portal, HL, HL2, HL Episodes, TF2, etc), because I get the Mac versions automatically.
Why would you "bet" that? People thought the same thing when Steam was first released in 2003, and look at what happened since then.
This will be the start of the return of gaming on the Mac in a huge way. Great for developers and consumers alike.
The ONLY reason I used BootCamp was to be able to use Steam and play TF2 (why would I need to buy a gaming PC is I already had an iMac that had good enough specs?). Now I won't need to use Bootcamp anymore, NOR will I need to rebuy all of the Source Engines games (Portal, HL, HL2, HL Episodes, TF2, etc), because I get the Mac versions automatically.
Disagree, besides maybe the Operating system and the amount of ram, it is pretty much high end, most people are either using a 4800 or 5800 series of ATi card, for Nvidia it is either a 8800/9800 and also a 260x video card, they are using decent processors as well.
For the primary display resolution, ah ya 1280x1024 is only around 18.8% and your forgetting the fact that over 18% have it at 1680x1050, over 10% have it at 1920x1080 and additional 5% have it at 1920x1200, I would say nearly as many people are running it at 1920x1080, if you include the 1920x1200, as they are running at 1280x1024
On the single graphics, that's true (but the fact that 25% still use DX9 should say something), but the processors represented could be as old as 2006 or 2H2005 and still be in the middle of that pack. Going by the chart, it's only in the past few months that the quad core users finally exceeded the single core users. The fact that a negligible portion of users are running dual GPU or higher still remains as well, lack of SLI is one of the things that Mac detractors really screamed about on this forum, they had the fervent feeling that it's a very common thing to do when they couldn't prove that it was in widespread use, and it turns out it really isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan
I can't let this slide...
You're misrepresenting the Steam survey. While "the most popular" screen resolution is 1280x1024 (18.8%) more than 56% run at a resolution greater than that (including over 10% with dual monitors).
But there's the flip side, 44% of steam users are using 1280x1024 or lower as their primary display resolution. It's also comical that a 5:4 screen is still so commonly used.
The other thing to consider is that as video cards are updated, often a single card will perform as well as two of last year's cards.
SLI is only for people who upgrade constantly and need the very fastest and best. Those folks are PC folks. They wouldn't really consider a Mac even if it had SLI.
But if 1 of the newest cards would run so well, then wouldn't 2 of those cards perform even better? SLI and Crossfire are not just for games. For all the talk about Macs being the ultimate professional graphics workstations, Apple should have the hardware support to back it up.
But if 1 of the newest cards would run so well, then wouldn't 2 of those cards perform even better? SLI and Crossfire are not just for games. For all the talk about Macs being the ultimate professional graphics workstations, Apple should have the hardware support to back it up.
Apple DOES have the hardware, but that is usually in the higher end systems. Its the difference between the $1200 iMac (NVIDIA GeForce 9400M with 256MB shared memory ) and the $2000 iMac (ATI Radeon HD 4850 graphics with 512MB).
And two cards DO perform better, but not double the performance. If you get 30fps with 1 card, you won't get 60fps with 2. It's much like how 256Kbps MP3 does not sound "twice as good" as 128Kbps. It's all subjective in the end.
Apple DOES have the hardware, but that is usually in the higher end systems. Its the difference between the $1200 iMac (NVIDIA GeForce 9400M with 256MB shared memory ) and the $2000 iMac (ATI Radeon HD 4850 graphics with 512MB).
I ran the Half-Life series just fine on my 1st-gen MBP with its (relatively) ancient X1600. Granted HL-2 isn't modern itself, but my point is that this should run fine with the current generation of (discrete) video cards.
I ran the Half-Life series just fine on my 1st-gen MBP with its (relatively) ancient X1600. Granted HL-2 isn't modern itself, but my point is that this should run fine with the current generation of (discrete) video cards.
Yep, I have a 2007 Core 2 Duo iMac with a RadeonHD 2400 with 128MB of VRAM, and the MAIN reason I am happy for Steam on the Mac is for TF2. It ran quite acceptably from within Bootcamp with most settings turned up to high (except FSAA and some filtering settings).
If you are listening Apple, "When my AppleCare runs out on my current iMac, Steam may more than likely make me buy a new Mac that is more expensive than a $1000 refurb."
And we cannot forget this one thing: it is not simply about Steam being a place for PC game developers to use as a jumping in point on the Mac, but a place for current Mac game developers (yes, they do exist), to have as a way to easily distribute their products as well as track their sales and users hardware profiles.
Can't believe nobody's brought up the most important question... When is Episode 3 coming??? Kinda ended on a bit of a cliffhanger with Episode 2!
That won't be until at least 2011. Valve said no new games this year but they brought forward Portal 2 in time for Christmas.
This Steam launch will most likely consist of only games we already know about:
Call of Duty Modern Warfare 1
Bioshock 1
NFS: Carbon
The Sims 3
Half-Life 1
HL:2 + ep1 + ep2
Portal 1
TF2
True Crime: Streets of LA
Star Wars the Force Unleashed
Jedi Knight 2 Outcast and Academy
Tiger Woods PGA
Prey
UT3
Colin McRae Rally
Battlefield 2142
Harry Potter
World of Warcraft
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Tomb Raider Anniversary
Neverwinter Nights 2
Command & Conquer
The Chronicles of Riddick (upcoming)
Quake 4
Doom 3
Lego Star Wars/Indiana Jones
Star Wars Battlefront
Star Wars KOTOR
James Bond 007: Nightfire
Splinter Cell 1 (thanks a lot Ubisoft)
XIII
Halo 1
Star Trek Elite Force 1 & 2
Tony Hawk 4
BloodRayne
Soldier of Fortune II
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Spider Man 1
Sacrifice
Red Faction 1
American McGee's Alice
Escape from Monkey Island
The Tales of Monkey Island
Myst series (1-5)
Spore
Prince of Persia
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Still Life 2
Guitar Hero
Disney games: Cars, Up, The Incredibles
Black & White 1 and 2
X-Plane 9
StarCraft II
Brothers in Arms
That wouldn't be a bad list of games to start out with even if most of them are old games. I'd probably get Quake 4 as I only ever played the demo. I would like to play Half-Life using a controller so will get those again and try out the 360 controller on the Mac using the 3rd party driver. Maybe the Force Unleashed but it's a big download and they will charge full price for it. I would possibly get Still Life 2 as well, it's nowhere near as good as the first one but I'd see if it plays better performance-wise on the Mac side.
Modern Warfare 2 would be good - it requires Steam so it can be ported over now. I think that if publishers don't keep adding games to the distribution platform, it will run out of steam (pun intended) quite quickly. At least it'll be a place you can get downloads legitimately.
The funny thing about that list is that I already own a few of those via the PC side of steam.
Bioshock 1, Half Life 1, HL2, Ep1, Ep2, Portal, TF2, UT3, Quake Wars, WoW, Doom 3 and expansion, Return to Wolfinstein, Torchlight (just announced in the Press Release).
So I will, apparently, have the Mac versions as well, instantly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
That won't be until at least 2011. Valve said no new games this year but they brought forward Portal 2 in time for Christmas.
This Steam launch will most likely consist of only games we already know about:
Call of Duty Modern Warfare 1
Bioshock 1
NFS: Carbon
The Sims 3
Half-Life 1
HL:2 + ep1 + ep2
Portal 1
TF2
True Crime: Streets of LA
Star Wars the Force Unleashed
Jedi Knight 2 Outcast and Academy
Tiger Woods PGA
Prey
UT3
Colin McRae Rally
Battlefield 2142
Harry Potter
World of Warcraft
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Tomb Raider Anniversary
Neverwinter Nights 2
Command & Conquer
The Chronicles of Riddick (upcoming)
Quake 4
Doom 3
Lego Star Wars/Indiana Jones
Star Wars Battlefront
Star Wars KOTOR
James Bond 007: Nightfire
Splinter Cell 1 (thanks a lot Ubisoft)
XIII
Halo 1
Star Trek Elite Force 1 & 2
Tony Hawk 4
BloodRayne
Soldier of Fortune II
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Spider Man 1
Sacrifice
Red Faction 1
American McGee's Alice
Escape from Monkey Island
The Tales of Monkey Island
Myst series (1-5)
Spore
Prince of Persia
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Still Life 2
Guitar Hero
Disney games: Cars, Up, The Incredibles
Black & White 1 and 2
X-Plane 9
StarCraft II
Brothers in Arms
That wouldn't be a bad list of games to start out with even if most of them are old games. I'd probably get Quake 4 as I only ever played the demo. I would like to play Half-Life using a controller so will get those again and try out the 360 controller on the Mac using the 3rd party driver. Maybe the Force Unleashed but it's a big download and they will charge full price for it. I would possibly get Still Life 2 as well, it's nowhere near as good as the first one but I'd see if it plays better performance-wise on the Mac side.
Modern Warfare 2 would be good - it requires Steam so it can be ported over now. I think that if publishers don't keep adding games to the distribution platform, it will run out of steam (pun intended) quite quickly. At least it'll be a place you can get downloads legitimately.
While I am thankful Valve has done this, I don't think the Mac is still a viable platform. As fat as I know, there isn't a common API like Direct X that can hook into the deeper layers of OS X. There isn't a huge Mac market if you break down the numbers. Apple doesn't allow overclocking, frequent video driver updates nor do they allow graphic cards to be swapped in and out.
OpenGL has the same level of hooks as Direct X and if you look at the larger console market it has the larger marketshare. So in the console to PC port arena OpenGL makes more sense.
How many games really require overclocking? Very few.
If your API calls aren't written by monkeys you shouldn't need frequent video driver updates.
As for swapping graphic cards in and out who want to do that if they are changing from one game to other? Again very few.
These supposed "limitations" really don't exist for the majority of the gaming market which seems to be made up mainly of retro and casual gamers
Comments
there isn't a common API like Direct X that can hook into the deeper layers of OS X.
It's called OpenGL. And the nice thing about OpenGL is that it is multiplatform; you can use nearly the same graphics code on any operating system supporting OpenGL, including Linux and Windows as well.
Apple is actually improving their OpenGL code as we speak, and it's primarily due to Steam coming!
Public beta this month?
Wasn't the official word from Valve that the official release was this Wednesday? Now all we're getting is two games?
First they delay the official release from April to mid-May, now the official release is just a public beta and who know when we'll get the full thing. I wish Valve would stop jerking us around like this.
Apple owners should be happy that any major software vendor would make software for the Mac, on any schedule, at any time.
As an aside, for all the complaining we've heard in these forums about OS X lacking SLI/Crossfire support, it turns out that only about 2% of Steam users are using it.
The other thing to consider is that as video cards are updated, often a single card will perform as well as two of last year's cards.
SLI is only for people who upgrade constantly and need the very fastest and best. Those folks are PC folks. They wouldn't really consider a Mac even if it had SLI.
.. Really these companies are just trying to make a quick and easy buck. They know that gaming sucks so bad on Apple computers that they can throw a 3 year-old bone to us and lots of Mac users will jump all over it...
Anyways, with the 2 generation old, rebranded graphics in the new Macbook Pros, and no DirectX support in OSX, I don't think this will change too much about the mac as a gaming platform, except for people who don't mind playing with all graphics set to "low".
Good points. But a 3 year old bone is better than the current situation. Mac owners should all be very happy that a company is willing to write software for the Mac.
Ehrm - Telltale Games has done exactly this several months ago, when they released their Monkey Island episodes for Mac - also for free for customers owning the Windows-versions? :
If ANY big software company starts making title for the Mac, it is big news. It happens infrequently.
Cost: FREE.
Impact on the Mac gaming world: IMMENSE.
Initial return for Valve: ZERO.
Ungrateful, whiney Mac fanboys complaining about release schedules? Unbelievable.
This will be the start of the return of gaming on the Mac in a huge way. Great for developers and consumers alike.
The ONLY reason I used BootCamp was to be able to use Steam and play TF2 (why would I need to buy a gaming PC is I already had an iMac that had good enough specs?). Now I won't need to use Bootcamp anymore, NOR will I need to rebuy all of the Source Engines games (Portal, HL, HL2, HL Episodes, TF2, etc), because I get the Mac versions automatically.
Win Win in all regards.
Why would you "bet" that? People thought the same thing when Steam was first released in 2003, and look at what happened since then.
This will be the start of the return of gaming on the Mac in a huge way. Great for developers and consumers alike.
The ONLY reason I used BootCamp was to be able to use Steam and play TF2 (why would I need to buy a gaming PC is I already had an iMac that had good enough specs?). Now I won't need to use Bootcamp anymore, NOR will I need to rebuy all of the Source Engines games (Portal, HL, HL2, HL Episodes, TF2, etc), because I get the Mac versions automatically.
Win Win in all regards.
agreed
fast mbp's will rock steam
apple love
Disagree, besides maybe the Operating system and the amount of ram, it is pretty much high end, most people are either using a 4800 or 5800 series of ATi card, for Nvidia it is either a 8800/9800 and also a 260x video card, they are using decent processors as well.
For the primary display resolution, ah ya 1280x1024 is only around 18.8% and your forgetting the fact that over 18% have it at 1680x1050, over 10% have it at 1920x1080 and additional 5% have it at 1920x1200, I would say nearly as many people are running it at 1920x1080, if you include the 1920x1200, as they are running at 1280x1024
On the single graphics, that's true (but the fact that 25% still use DX9 should say something), but the processors represented could be as old as 2006 or 2H2005 and still be in the middle of that pack. Going by the chart, it's only in the past few months that the quad core users finally exceeded the single core users. The fact that a negligible portion of users are running dual GPU or higher still remains as well, lack of SLI is one of the things that Mac detractors really screamed about on this forum, they had the fervent feeling that it's a very common thing to do when they couldn't prove that it was in widespread use, and it turns out it really isn't.
I can't let this slide...
You're misrepresenting the Steam survey. While "the most popular" screen resolution is 1280x1024 (18.8%) more than 56% run at a resolution greater than that (including over 10% with dual monitors).
But there's the flip side, 44% of steam users are using 1280x1024 or lower as their primary display resolution. It's also comical that a 5:4 screen is still so commonly used.
The other thing to consider is that as video cards are updated, often a single card will perform as well as two of last year's cards.
SLI is only for people who upgrade constantly and need the very fastest and best. Those folks are PC folks. They wouldn't really consider a Mac even if it had SLI.
But if 1 of the newest cards would run so well, then wouldn't 2 of those cards perform even better? SLI and Crossfire are not just for games. For all the talk about Macs being the ultimate professional graphics workstations, Apple should have the hardware support to back it up.
But if 1 of the newest cards would run so well, then wouldn't 2 of those cards perform even better? SLI and Crossfire are not just for games. For all the talk about Macs being the ultimate professional graphics workstations, Apple should have the hardware support to back it up.
Apple DOES have the hardware, but that is usually in the higher end systems. Its the difference between the $1200 iMac (NVIDIA GeForce 9400M with 256MB shared memory ) and the $2000 iMac (ATI Radeon HD 4850 graphics with 512MB).
And two cards DO perform better, but not double the performance. If you get 30fps with 1 card, you won't get 60fps with 2. It's much like how 256Kbps MP3 does not sound "twice as good" as 128Kbps. It's all subjective in the end.
Apple DOES have the hardware, but that is usually in the higher end systems. Its the difference between the $1200 iMac (NVIDIA GeForce 9400M with 256MB shared memory ) and the $2000 iMac (ATI Radeon HD 4850 graphics with 512MB).
I ran the Half-Life series just fine on my 1st-gen MBP with its (relatively) ancient X1600. Granted HL-2 isn't modern itself, but my point is that this should run fine with the current generation of (discrete) video cards.
I ran the Half-Life series just fine on my 1st-gen MBP with its (relatively) ancient X1600. Granted HL-2 isn't modern itself, but my point is that this should run fine with the current generation of (discrete) video cards.
Yep, I have a 2007 Core 2 Duo iMac with a RadeonHD 2400 with 128MB of VRAM, and the MAIN reason I am happy for Steam on the Mac is for TF2. It ran quite acceptably from within Bootcamp with most settings turned up to high (except FSAA and some filtering settings).
If you are listening Apple, "When my AppleCare runs out on my current iMac, Steam may more than likely make me buy a new Mac that is more expensive than a $1000 refurb."
And we cannot forget this one thing: it is not simply about Steam being a place for PC game developers to use as a jumping in point on the Mac, but a place for current Mac game developers (yes, they do exist), to have as a way to easily distribute their products as well as track their sales and users hardware profiles.
Can't believe nobody's brought up the most important question... When is Episode 3 coming??? Kinda ended on a bit of a cliffhanger with Episode 2!
That won't be until at least 2011. Valve said no new games this year but they brought forward Portal 2 in time for Christmas.
This Steam launch will most likely consist of only games we already know about:
Call of Duty Modern Warfare 1
Bioshock 1
NFS: Carbon
The Sims 3
Half-Life 1
HL:2 + ep1 + ep2
Portal 1
TF2
True Crime: Streets of LA
Star Wars the Force Unleashed
Jedi Knight 2 Outcast and Academy
Tiger Woods PGA
Prey
UT3
Colin McRae Rally
Battlefield 2142
Harry Potter
World of Warcraft
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Tomb Raider Anniversary
Neverwinter Nights 2
Command & Conquer
The Chronicles of Riddick (upcoming)
Quake 4
Doom 3
Lego Star Wars/Indiana Jones
Star Wars Battlefront
Star Wars KOTOR
James Bond 007: Nightfire
Splinter Cell 1 (thanks a lot Ubisoft)
XIII
Halo 1
Star Trek Elite Force 1 & 2
Tony Hawk 4
BloodRayne
Soldier of Fortune II
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Spider Man 1
Sacrifice
Red Faction 1
American McGee's Alice
Escape from Monkey Island
The Tales of Monkey Island
Myst series (1-5)
Spore
Prince of Persia
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Still Life 2
Guitar Hero
Disney games: Cars, Up, The Incredibles
Black & White 1 and 2
X-Plane 9
StarCraft II
Brothers in Arms
That wouldn't be a bad list of games to start out with even if most of them are old games. I'd probably get Quake 4 as I only ever played the demo. I would like to play Half-Life using a controller so will get those again and try out the 360 controller on the Mac using the 3rd party driver. Maybe the Force Unleashed but it's a big download and they will charge full price for it. I would possibly get Still Life 2 as well, it's nowhere near as good as the first one but I'd see if it plays better performance-wise on the Mac side.
Modern Warfare 2 would be good - it requires Steam so it can be ported over now. I think that if publishers don't keep adding games to the distribution platform, it will run out of steam (pun intended) quite quickly. At least it'll be a place you can get downloads legitimately.
Bioshock 1, Half Life 1, HL2, Ep1, Ep2, Portal, TF2, UT3, Quake Wars, WoW, Doom 3 and expansion, Return to Wolfinstein, Torchlight (just announced in the Press Release).
So I will, apparently, have the Mac versions as well, instantly.
That won't be until at least 2011. Valve said no new games this year but they brought forward Portal 2 in time for Christmas.
This Steam launch will most likely consist of only games we already know about:
Call of Duty Modern Warfare 1
Bioshock 1
NFS: Carbon
The Sims 3
Half-Life 1
HL:2 + ep1 + ep2
Portal 1
TF2
True Crime: Streets of LA
Star Wars the Force Unleashed
Jedi Knight 2 Outcast and Academy
Tiger Woods PGA
Prey
UT3
Colin McRae Rally
Battlefield 2142
Harry Potter
World of Warcraft
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Tomb Raider Anniversary
Neverwinter Nights 2
Command & Conquer
The Chronicles of Riddick (upcoming)
Quake 4
Doom 3
Lego Star Wars/Indiana Jones
Star Wars Battlefront
Star Wars KOTOR
James Bond 007: Nightfire
Splinter Cell 1 (thanks a lot Ubisoft)
XIII
Halo 1
Star Trek Elite Force 1 & 2
Tony Hawk 4
BloodRayne
Soldier of Fortune II
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Spider Man 1
Sacrifice
Red Faction 1
American McGee's Alice
Escape from Monkey Island
The Tales of Monkey Island
Myst series (1-5)
Spore
Prince of Persia
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Still Life 2
Guitar Hero
Disney games: Cars, Up, The Incredibles
Black & White 1 and 2
X-Plane 9
StarCraft II
Brothers in Arms
That wouldn't be a bad list of games to start out with even if most of them are old games. I'd probably get Quake 4 as I only ever played the demo. I would like to play Half-Life using a controller so will get those again and try out the 360 controller on the Mac using the 3rd party driver. Maybe the Force Unleashed but it's a big download and they will charge full price for it. I would possibly get Still Life 2 as well, it's nowhere near as good as the first one but I'd see if it plays better performance-wise on the Mac side.
Modern Warfare 2 would be good - it requires Steam so it can be ported over now. I think that if publishers don't keep adding games to the distribution platform, it will run out of steam (pun intended) quite quickly. At least it'll be a place you can get downloads legitimately.
While I am thankful Valve has done this, I don't think the Mac is still a viable platform. As fat as I know, there isn't a common API like Direct X that can hook into the deeper layers of OS X. There isn't a huge Mac market if you break down the numbers. Apple doesn't allow overclocking, frequent video driver updates nor do they allow graphic cards to be swapped in and out.
OpenGL has the same level of hooks as Direct X and if you look at the larger console market it has the larger marketshare. So in the console to PC port arena OpenGL makes more sense.
How many games really require overclocking? Very few.
If your API calls aren't written by monkeys you shouldn't need frequent video driver updates.
As for swapping graphic cards in and out who want to do that if they are changing from one game to other? Again very few.
These supposed "limitations" really don't exist for the majority of the gaming market which seems to be made up mainly of retro and casual gamers