<strong>Hahaha... Scott I finally get you... I finally understand that you insult everyone and thing outside of the US because you like to joke around... I mean how could I ever have thought that you were actually that ignorant about world affairs! Wooah! Hahah... yes, you had me for a moment there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're saying I'm wrong about syn? Back it up then.
Foreign affairs according to certain melon heads that shall remain nameless (remember not to incriminate yourself!): USA bad! Very bad! Very very bad! They should be more like Europe and embrace the rest of the world as it is.... nothing is perfect!
[quote]I'm just trying to keep the dialogue going both ways. America has problems, France has problems. I think we focus on the problems of America sometimes as problems specific to the US when in fact they are common all over the world. And in that, we are all brothers of the human race, not just separate nationalities.<hr></blockquote>
Very well said. It's true we tend to focus more on the US' problems when each country has its own. However, I do think that the kind of posts we've got here "the US rulez your ass " etc. will not stem from other nationalities. happy to see you're a level-headed person.
[quote] USA bad! Very bad! Very very bad! They should be more like Europe and embrace the rest of the world as it is <hr></blockquote>
Don't put words in my mouth, there is not a singl praise of France in my post. Only criticism of the US. There's a difference between those that you might have trouble understanding.
[quote]AHHHHH! How many times to I have to read this complete crap! Get your facts straight or STFU!
Oh and before you say "prove me wrong" I'll ask you to prove you're right. <hr></blockquote>
I will. Don't worry. I've got to go attend some free engineering classes, and then I'll open your eyes.
[quote] Just because you say so? I guess the only factors we need to consider are the ones you've decided were involved. <hr></blockquote>
Considering I was receiving unbiased information and education about the Cold War while you were hiding under tables for nuclear attack drills, I'd say my information is maybe a tad more accurate than yours.
Considering I was receiving unbiased information and education about the Cold War while you were hiding under tables for nuclear attack drills, I'd say my information is maybe a tad more accurate than yours.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is pointless. You know nothing about me and yet you are certain that you are better informed than me. You can say whatever you want but that don't make it so.
The only air raid drill I ever participated in was in Taipei in 1996. And we didn't hide under any desks.
Don't put words in my mouth, there is not a singl praise of France in my post. Only criticism of the US. There's a difference between those that you might have trouble understanding.
Just because you say so? I guess the only factors we need to consider are the ones you've decided were involved.
<hr></blockquote>
I think that its really quite simple. THe soviet Union was collapsing for a very long time, due mostly to the intrinsic unworkability of its system, as well as a constant and concerted effort by the West to combat it and to stop the spread of its ideology. Its really pretty damn idiotic to put in the place of that understanding the notion that the second most powerful government in the world freaked out when Reagan called them 'evil' and then spontaneoulsy collapsed.
And this stupid French bashing: I am sick of stupid asshole Americans that take a well rounded critical remark about Bush's foreign policy as an excuse to become xenophobic, ignorant, racist shiitheads.
It bothers me that somehow the prejudice against the French is considered OK here in the states. Sure the French are often as arrogant as we are about pride in their country, and are sometimes a little too easily critical of American culture (which they tend to dismiss as being only strip malls Disney and McDonald's) But these should all still be reasons for discussion not infantile slander and name calling by immature biggots.
... Try realizing that every action has a reaction, and that two 767s didn't crash into the WTC just for the sake of it. Arrogance is what killed so many people in the first place.<hr></blockquote>
SYN, I am quite sympathetic to many of your arguments, but this piece is wrong. US arrogance did not kill 3000 innocent people, 15 or so hijackers (mostly Saudi nationals) killed 3000 people.
Their horrible crime was not "created" by the US any more than my viewpoint was "created" by the US. They are responsible, not American foriegn policy or some other abstract concept. It does your arguments injustice to link American foreign policy (which is otherwise emminently criticizable) with the crime and assault committed by these hijackers.
Hey Timo? Don't you remember Osama bin Laden at the UN expressing his grievances to the world?
Oh wait. That didn't happen. Rather than do that he declared "jihad" like he's done his entire life. From the young age when his father taught him to hate the Jews and use war and violence to express himself.
How can we twist that to blame the US? Hummm? There's got to be a way?
SYN, I am quite sympathetic to many of your arguments, but this piece is wrong. US arrogance did not kill 3000 innocent people, 15 or so hijackers (mostly Saudi nationals) killed 3000 people.
Their horrible crime was not "created" by the US any more than my viewpoint was "created" by the US. They are responsible, not American foriegn policy or some other abstract concept. It does your arguments injustice to link American foreign policy (which is otherwise emminently criticizable) with the crime and assault committed by these hijackers.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think that Syn is just little upset by all the bashing against France, and he get angry. Some people (not you Timo) must realize that the french member of AI are not particulary anti-american. If it was the case i doubt that thei'll spent hours on AI.
I think that the 9-11 has traumatized many people in US, before that US people where feeling to live in a safe country, a sort of sanctuary. Suddenly they realize that this time is finish. US suddenly discover that he has strong ennemy who can hurt themself inside.That''s bad,but we cannot do anything to change that matter of fact.
Europe , and many of world was fully behind the US during 3months. USA has defeat The Taliban in afghanistan, and desorganised AL Quaeda (but not totally destroy it : very difficult).
The war in Afhganistan is finish, and by the way the automatic support of the US foreign policy is also finish, and other countries are becoming to be independant for their foreign policies as before.For european country the mourning is finish and life has to go back. For USA the mourning is not finish for obvious reasons, and some people here does not understand that, they want Europe to be fully behind her for ever (or until that terrorism is finish : i fear that's it represant the same amount of time). That's why some people here think that any criticism against the US is considering to be an attack. It's normal to defend our country against criticisms, but we should not becoming paranoiac. Paranoia has never solved any problems , it only create mores.
I use to know the old AI before the crash, i don't remember to have seen such bashing between US and Europe before.
If Europe were a little more even handed that would be nice. Rather than fly off the handel ever time they see a brown skinned person bound and blindfolded while in transport from a war zone to a detention center. Also if they could apply the same rules to every aspect of this war that would be nice too.
But why do that when you can allow your envy to cloud your thinking and allow yourself to bash the US at every turn?
It blows me away that Europe is little more than a dissfucntional family that has nothing better to do than point the finger at US while they ignore the dog shitting in their own back yard. They fail over and over again to solve problems in their own back yard and then blame the US for everything.
But why do that when you can allow your envy to cloud your thinking and allow yourself to bash the US at every turn?</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you read my posts more carrefully you will discover that i am not bashing US at every turn, i just said i was not OK with the speech of bush, i was saying also that i find that the way Bush conduct his task since now was OK for me. My only criticism (call that bashing if you want) was this speech.
Perthaps it's a crime of "lese majeste" to have a criticism concerning Bush.
<strong>Scott, it's not easy when you wake up in the morning and find out that half the countries on your continent have changed names overnight.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yea that's my point. When Europe is perfect then they can speak up. Considering they are the source of most of the fighting in the 20 century I'd say they have some work to do.
Powerdoc my comments weren't directed at you. Just in general.
If France has a problem then take it to Powell and don't use the French press to try to embarrass us. I thought the French were masters at diplomacy? So I can conclude that they intent was to embarrass the US. So...France...**** off. When you get 3000 of your citizens killed we'll be right here ready to help, not embarrass.
<strong>It blows me away that Europe is little more than a dissfucntional family that has nothing better to do than point the finger at US while they ignore the dog shitting in their own back yard. They fail over and over again to solve problems in their own back yard and then blame the US for everything.
Grow some balls Europe.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you think that the only concern of Europe is to point out the US problems you are wrong. Like everyone Europe is more concerned by is own problems, than by the US.
The french elections for president and deputes is on the way, there is no discussion concerning US, we are concerned by our economies and our safety. You are not the central subject of our life, nor we are the central subject of your life.
Then deal with the treatment of refugees, for example, in your own ****ing country and when you prefect it then you can turn your nose up and poo poo the US on that subject. Before that STFU.
I think that Syn is just little upset by all the bashing against France, and he get angry. Some people (not you Timo) must realize that the french member of AI are not particulary anti-american. If it was the case i doubt that thei'll spent hours on AI.<hr></blockquote>
It would be OK with me if he were anti-American...but of course I'm glad he's not.
The only point of my post is that a crime is a crime, and it is stupid to blame US foreign policy for Osama's gang. There are plenty of other real things to blame US foreign policy for, but this isn't one of them.
As for European criticism of the US, I say, "Bring it on." I mean, criticism may help further develop viewpoints. I perfer to hear what people in France or wherever really think, rather than blowin' sunshine up my ass.*
*hard to translate: it means saying nice things but insincerely, to try to get advantage
Comments
<strong>Hahaha... Scott I finally get you... I finally understand that you insult everyone and thing outside of the US because you like to joke around... I mean how could I ever have thought that you were actually that ignorant about world affairs! Wooah! Hahah... yes, you had me for a moment there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're saying I'm wrong about syn? Back it up then.
SYN you're my hero!
NOT!
Very well said. It's true we tend to focus more on the US' problems when each country has its own. However, I do think that the kind of posts we've got here "the US rulez your ass " etc. will not stem from other nationalities. happy to see you're a level-headed person.
[quote] USA bad! Very bad! Very very bad! They should be more like Europe and embrace the rest of the world as it is <hr></blockquote>
Don't put words in my mouth, there is not a singl praise of France in my post. Only criticism of the US. There's a difference between those that you might have trouble understanding.
[quote]AHHHHH! How many times to I have to read this complete crap! Get your facts straight or STFU!
Oh and before you say "prove me wrong" I'll ask you to prove you're right. <hr></blockquote>
I will. Don't worry. I've got to go attend some free
Considering I was receiving unbiased information and education about the Cold War while you were hiding under tables for nuclear attack drills, I'd say my information is maybe a tad more accurate than yours.
<strong>
Considering I was receiving unbiased information and education about the Cold War while you were hiding under tables for nuclear attack drills, I'd say my information is maybe a tad more accurate than yours.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is pointless. You know nothing about me and yet you are certain that you are better informed than me. You can say whatever you want but that don't make it so.
The only air raid drill I ever participated in was in Taipei in 1996. And we didn't hide under any desks.
Hmm, I didn't mention you by name...
French intelligence. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
There were thousands of factors involved in the fall of the USSR, Reagan's speech most definitely was not one of them.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just because you say so? I guess the only factors we need to consider are the ones you've decided were involved.
<hr></blockquote>
I think that its really quite simple. THe soviet Union was collapsing for a very long time, due mostly to the intrinsic unworkability of its system, as well as a constant and concerted effort by the West to combat it and to stop the spread of its ideology. Its really pretty damn idiotic to put in the place of that understanding the notion that the second most powerful government in the world freaked out when Reagan called them 'evil' and then spontaneoulsy collapsed.
And this stupid French bashing: I am sick of stupid asshole Americans that take a well rounded critical remark about Bush's foreign policy as an excuse to become xenophobic, ignorant, racist shiitheads.
It bothers me that somehow the prejudice against the French is considered OK here in the states. Sure the French are often as arrogant as we are about pride in their country, and are sometimes a little too easily critical of American culture (which they tend to dismiss as being only strip malls Disney and McDonald's) But these should all still be reasons for discussion not infantile slander and name calling by immature biggots.
... Try realizing that every action has a reaction, and that two 767s didn't crash into the WTC just for the sake of it. Arrogance is what killed so many people in the first place.<hr></blockquote>
SYN, I am quite sympathetic to many of your arguments, but this piece is wrong. US arrogance did not kill 3000 innocent people, 15 or so hijackers (mostly Saudi nationals) killed 3000 people.
Their horrible crime was not "created" by the US any more than my viewpoint was "created" by the US. They are responsible, not American foriegn policy or some other abstract concept. It does your arguments injustice to link American foreign policy (which is otherwise emminently criticizable) with the crime and assault committed by these hijackers.
Oh wait. That didn't happen. Rather than do that he declared "jihad" like he's done his entire life. From the young age when his father taught him to hate the Jews and use war and violence to express himself.
How can we twist that to blame the US? Hummm? There's got to be a way?
<strong>
SYN, I am quite sympathetic to many of your arguments, but this piece is wrong. US arrogance did not kill 3000 innocent people, 15 or so hijackers (mostly Saudi nationals) killed 3000 people.
Their horrible crime was not "created" by the US any more than my viewpoint was "created" by the US. They are responsible, not American foriegn policy or some other abstract concept. It does your arguments injustice to link American foreign policy (which is otherwise emminently criticizable) with the crime and assault committed by these hijackers.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think that Syn is just little upset by all the bashing against France, and he get angry. Some people (not you Timo) must realize that the french member of AI are not particulary anti-american. If it was the case i doubt that thei'll spent hours on AI.
I think that the 9-11 has traumatized many people in US, before that US people where feeling to live in a safe country, a sort of sanctuary. Suddenly they realize that this time is finish. US suddenly discover that he has strong ennemy who can hurt themself inside.That''s bad,but we cannot do anything to change that matter of fact.
Europe , and many of world was fully behind the US during 3months. USA has defeat The Taliban in afghanistan, and desorganised AL Quaeda (but not totally destroy it : very difficult).
The war in Afhganistan is finish, and by the way the automatic support of the US foreign policy is also finish, and other countries are becoming to be independant for their foreign policies as before.For european country the mourning is finish and life has to go back. For USA the mourning is not finish for obvious reasons, and some people here does not understand that, they want Europe to be fully behind her for ever (or until that terrorism is finish : i fear that's it represant the same amount of time). That's why some people here think that any criticism against the US is considering to be an attack. It's normal to defend our country against criticisms, but we should not becoming paranoiac. Paranoia has never solved any problems , it only create mores.
I use to know the old AI before the crash, i don't remember to have seen such bashing between US and Europe before.
But why do that when you can allow your envy to cloud your thinking and allow yourself to bash the US at every turn?
Grow some balls Europe.
<strong>I
But why do that when you can allow your envy to cloud your thinking and allow yourself to bash the US at every turn?</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you read my posts more carrefully you will discover that i am not bashing US at every turn, i just said i was not OK with the speech of bush, i was saying also that i find that the way Bush conduct his task since now was OK for me. My only criticism (call that bashing if you want) was this speech.
Perthaps it's a crime of "lese majeste" to have a criticism concerning Bush.
<strong>Scott, it's not easy when you wake up in the morning and find out that half the countries on your continent have changed names overnight.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yea that's my point. When Europe is perfect then they can speak up. Considering they are the source of most of the fighting in the 20 century I'd say they have some work to do.
Powerdoc my comments weren't directed at you. Just in general.
If France has a problem then take it to Powell and don't use the French press to try to embarrass us. I thought the French were masters at diplomacy? So I can conclude that they intent was to embarrass the US. So...France...**** off. When you get 3000 of your citizens killed we'll be right here ready to help, not embarrass.
<strong>It blows me away that Europe is little more than a dissfucntional family that has nothing better to do than point the finger at US while they ignore the dog shitting in their own back yard. They fail over and over again to solve problems in their own back yard and then blame the US for everything.
Grow some balls Europe.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you think that the only concern of Europe is to point out the US problems you are wrong. Like everyone Europe is more concerned by is own problems, than by the US.
The french elections for president and deputes is on the way, there is no discussion concerning US, we are concerned by our economies and our safety. You are not the central subject of our life, nor we are the central subject of your life.
Apple outsider is a place to discuss, that's all.
[ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
I think that Syn is just little upset by all the bashing against France, and he get angry. Some people (not you Timo) must realize that the french member of AI are not particulary anti-american. If it was the case i doubt that thei'll spent hours on AI.<hr></blockquote>
It would be OK with me if he were anti-American...but of course I'm glad he's not.
The only point of my post is that a crime is a crime, and it is stupid to blame US foreign policy for Osama's gang. There are plenty of other real things to blame US foreign policy for, but this isn't one of them.
As for European criticism of the US, I say, "Bring it on." I mean, criticism may help further develop viewpoints. I perfer to hear what people in France or wherever really think, rather than blowin' sunshine up my ass.*
*hard to translate: it means saying nice things but insincerely, to try to get advantage