Franklin Delano Roosevelt plane and simple with the police commissioner of nyc, rough riders, saved many areas like the Grand Canyon, and I must also say Eleanor Roosevelt because she in my mind is the first woman president for some of the many wonderful things she has done, no first lady has ever come close, ever. I only wish he was president today because mircosoft would have a reason to fear the government.
<strong>When talking about Reagan lets not forget the crack epidemic, saving and loan debacle, cutting student loans and increasing the amount of taxable student income.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The crack epidemic was Reagan's fault? The S&L mess was a bipartisan screwup. The bill that started us on the road to perdition (a road that eventually led to a S&L in Arkansas called Madison Guarantee) was signed by Jimmy Carter.
That CIA/crack thing was false. It's repeated over and over though. One of those things we all "know" is true but isn't.
See the common theme?
Reagan made me smoke crack. The crack problem is the CIAs fault. We are not responsible for things that are our own fault. We have no control over our lives so there's no point in trying to solve our own problems.
Reagan made me get AIDS. Reagan made me go to the bath houses and have sex with men and/or women and/or shemales and/or hermaphrodites. (happy now?) Reagan also forced me to share needles when I injected IV drugs. None of this is my fault. It's all someone else's.
The common theme of the left is to deflect blame. People are never responsible for their own actions. The little guy has no control over their own life. Blame someone else.
Geez. Only Scott could make this thread into a left vs right thing.
I wonder why anyone would hate liberals so much and love the right so much. Makes one blind to open mindedness.
Clinton sucked. Bush sucks. AIDS kills anyone. Cops, Doctors, Waitresses, EMTs you name it. Lack of knowledge about deadly virii and how they are transmitted is what kills people. Not everyone that has gotten HIV/AIDS was having promiscous sex or doing drugs. Geez, did you even read the one single link I posted Scott?
Kids with aids. Get it through your thick damn stubborn blindheaded skull. Worldwide, approximately 25 million people have died of AIDS since the beginning of epidemic, approximately 5 million of them were children.
Now, I'm not saying that Reagan, or anyone else, is at fault you simply cannot make a blanket statement as to "who's fault" it is that this type of thing happens - there are too many individual cases. If YOU want to play the blame game and blame it on the victims of HIV or their parents, or their poor actions fine, then play the blame game. But to suggest that government doesn't hold a certain amount of responsibility to inform the public of how deadly diseases are transmitted in the name of defending a President simply because he was a Republican is just stupid.
So Scott, what about the people not directly in the AIDS or crack epidemics, but ensnared by circumstance? ie, Those living in a neighborhood overrun by drug dealers or trying to care for a relative with AIDS. Is it their fault too?
I love how conservatives are all for individual responsibility so long as the individual is a person and not a corporate entity.
BTW, Scott so you've never taken any student aid in your college career? A rugged individualist such as yourself surely didn't need any help from the government. Your probably sickened by those weak liberals who gladly feed at the trough of TAP etc....
<strong>The common theme of the left is to deflect blame. People are never responsible for their own actions. The little guy has no control over their own life. Blame someone else.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sounds like a common theme of the Enron debacle. Did you catch Jeffrey Skilling's testimony? He was deceived. He was a victim. He thought the company was in good financial shape when he quit. Yeah right.
Everyone tries to deflect blame. It's a human character flaw. It's not restricted to one side of the aisle. The right just loves to crow about personal responsibility when it's someone else who's ****ing up. When it's them, suddenly it's someone else's fault.
<strong>So Scott, what about the people not directly in the AIDS or crack epidemics, but ensnared by circumstance? ie, Those living in a neighborhood overrun by drug dealers or trying to care for a relative with AIDS. Is it their fault too?
I love how conservatives are all for individual responsibility so long as the individual is a person and not a corporate entity.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Enron is going to get slammed by the stock owners. And if the broke the law they may well go to jail for it. So there's no double standard.
[quote]Originally posted by trick fall:
<strong>BTW, Scott so you've never taken any student aid in your college career? A rugged individualist such as yourself surely didn't need any help from the government. Your probably sickened by those weak liberals who gladly feed at the trough of TAP etc....</strong><hr></blockquote>
No I did. NIH grants. For which I'm obligated to contribute to the field they helped to fund. Which I will do. But it's apples and oranges. Staying off crack and doing cancer research are not two sides of the same coin.
<strong>Not everyone that has gotten HIV/AIDS was having promiscous sex or doing drugs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No not everyone. But almost everyone. A tiny fraction got it through blood transfusions in the early 1980s. And a small % are babies who get it as a birthday present from their moms. Their moms got it due to sex or drugs. Very close to 100% have gotten it due to sex or drugs. It's just too hard to catch any other way - the virus is too fragile outside of its host.
The point is we can send AIDS the way of smallpox, but we don't even need a vaccine. It used to be pretty easy to catch smallpox - like flus and colds are today. But HIV is extremely difficult to catch. So people need to change their behavior.
I think repeatedly pointing out that anyone can get it sends the wrong message - like it's uncontrollable, and you can't prevent it. Fact is, it is very easily preventable and linked to very specific, controllable behaviors.
No not everyone. But almost everyone. A tiny fraction got it through blood transfusions in the early 1980s. And a small % are babies who get it as a birthday present from their moms. Their moms got it due to sex or drugs. Very close to 100% have gotten it due to sex or drugs. It's just too hard to catch any other way - the virus is too fragile outside of its host.
The point is we can send AIDS the way of smallpox, but we don't even need a vaccine. It used to be pretty easy to catch smallpox - like flus and colds are today. But HIV is extremely difficult to catch. So people need to change their behavior.
I think repeatedly pointing out that anyone can get it sends the wrong message - like it's uncontrollable, and you can't prevent it. Fact is, it is very easily preventable and linked to very specific, controllable behaviors.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Finally! The voice of reason! I was going to post somthing similar if I did not read it in this thread. As he so nicely stated, AIDS is not as contagious as the common cold. It usually required intimate relations, blood exchange or something else that is not a normal contact to contract it. AIDS is preventable, but not in todays moral climate. (Shoot I have even read that hte AIDS virus is small enough to permeate an ubroken latex condom in some instances.)
[QB]That CIA/crack thing was false. It's repeated over and over though. One of those things we all "know" is true but isn't.<hr></blockquote>
How so? I don't see a shred of evidence backing up your point. And the only negative response to the Mercury News articles are questions of editorial decisions and examples of government denial. Rather than reject something on face, Scott, why don't you try to analyze all the facts?
(Oh, and it seems people have granted me that Nixon allowed the East Timorese massacre to occur. Thanks)
<strong>Yea and Clinton "allowed" Rwanda to happen. I "allowed" someone to driver their car down the street today.
Saying Reagan caused all those AIDS deaths is just as dumb as Pat Robertson (or was it the other guy) saying gays caused 9-11.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, Kissinger, with Nixon's blessing, spoke directly to Suharto and said that the US would do absolutely nothing if Indonesia invaded. Thus, the US DIRECTLY influenced the Indonesian invasion of and subsequent massacre of East Timor.
<strong>That CIA/crack thing was false. It's repeated over and over though. One of those things we all "know" is true but isn't.
See the common theme?
Reagan made me smoke crack. The crack problem is the CIAs fault. We are not responsible for things that are our own fault. We have no control over our lives so there's no point in trying to solve our own problems.
Reagan made me get AIDS. Reagan made me go to the bath houses and have sex with men and/or women and/or shemales and/or hermaphrodites. (happy now?) Reagan also forced me to share needles when I injected IV drugs. None of this is my fault. It's all someone else's.
The common theme of the left is to deflect blame. People are never responsible for their own actions. The little guy has no control over their own life. Blame someone else.
Unless Bill Clinton is in office.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Firsto of all, I did not say that Reagan caused AIDS. The first known AIDS death was in 1959, in Manchester, England. He had nothing to do with that.
What I did say is that Reagan was the worst president of the modern era becasue of his RESPONSE to AIDS. Not becasue he went around infecting people. My point is that if Reagan had wanted to, he could have raised public awareness of the disease and instituted a government policy of how to deal with it. That would have saved lives.
I'm not saying Reagan caused people to get AIDS. I know how you get AIDS, and I know that in most cases it is through an action of your own. I m saying that Reagan didn't do everything he could to help.
Period.
If I knew that everyone was going to get their underwear all knotted up over this, I would have just had someone else be the worst president.
Since we keep debating all the bad things that he did, would anyone like to clarify and explain the good things that Reagan did? I fail to see any mention of anything good through out this forum.
Comments
[ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: KrazyFool ]</p>
<strong>What about Warren G. Harding? He returned us to normalcy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And spiraled us into the Great Depression
The Great Depression can't really be blamed on Harding, Coolidge or Hoover, though Hoover got the meat of it.
Nixon 'considered' using the bomb on Vietnam = grounds for putting him out of the running?
If I'm not mistaken, Truman used the bomb not once, but twice.
<strong>When talking about Reagan lets not forget the crack epidemic, saving and loan debacle, cutting student loans and increasing the amount of taxable student income.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The crack epidemic was Reagan's fault? The S&L mess was a bipartisan screwup. The bill that started us on the road to perdition (a road that eventually led to a S&L in Arkansas called Madison Guarantee) was signed by Jimmy Carter.
<strong>I'm not blaming Reagan for the crack epidemic, but rather his response to that epidemic.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And what was Clinton's responce to the drug "epidemic"? Double standard?
See the common theme?
Reagan made me smoke crack. The crack problem is the CIAs fault. We are not responsible for things that are our own fault. We have no control over our lives so there's no point in trying to solve our own problems.
Reagan made me get AIDS. Reagan made me go to the bath houses and have sex with men and/or women and/or shemales and/or hermaphrodites. (happy now?) Reagan also forced me to share needles when I injected IV drugs. None of this is my fault. It's all someone else's.
The common theme of the left is to deflect blame. People are never responsible for their own actions. The little guy has no control over their own life. Blame someone else.
Unless Bill Clinton is in office.
I wonder why anyone would hate liberals so much and love the right so much. Makes one blind to open mindedness.
Clinton sucked. Bush sucks. AIDS kills anyone. Cops, Doctors, Waitresses, EMTs you name it. Lack of knowledge about deadly virii and how they are transmitted is what kills people. Not everyone that has gotten HIV/AIDS was having promiscous sex or doing drugs. Geez, did you even read the one single link I posted Scott?
<a href="http://www.pedaids.org."; target="_blank">www.pedaids.org.</a>
Kids with aids. Get it through your thick damn stubborn blindheaded skull. Worldwide, approximately 25 million people have died of AIDS since the beginning of epidemic, approximately 5 million of them were children.
Now, I'm not saying that Reagan, or anyone else, is at fault you simply cannot make a blanket statement as to "who's fault" it is that this type of thing happens - there are too many individual cases. If YOU want to play the blame game and blame it on the victims of HIV or their parents, or their poor actions fine, then play the blame game. But to suggest that government doesn't hold a certain amount of responsibility to inform the public of how deadly diseases are transmitted in the name of defending a President simply because he was a Republican is just stupid.
Sheesh. You must live one sheltered life Scott.
I love how conservatives are all for individual responsibility so long as the individual is a person and not a corporate entity.
BTW, Scott so you've never taken any student aid in your college career? A rugged individualist such as yourself surely didn't need any help from the government. Your probably sickened by those weak liberals who gladly feed at the trough of TAP etc....
<strong>The common theme of the left is to deflect blame. People are never responsible for their own actions. The little guy has no control over their own life. Blame someone else.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sounds like a common theme of the Enron debacle. Did you catch Jeffrey Skilling's testimony? He was deceived. He was a victim. He thought the company was in good financial shape when he quit. Yeah right.
Everyone tries to deflect blame. It's a human character flaw. It's not restricted to one side of the aisle. The right just loves to crow about personal responsibility when it's someone else who's ****ing up. When it's them, suddenly it's someone else's fault.
[ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: CaseCom ]</p>
<strong>So Scott, what about the people not directly in the AIDS or crack epidemics, but ensnared by circumstance? ie, Those living in a neighborhood overrun by drug dealers or trying to care for a relative with AIDS. Is it their fault too?
I love how conservatives are all for individual responsibility so long as the individual is a person and not a corporate entity.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Enron is going to get slammed by the stock owners. And if the broke the law they may well go to jail for it. So there's no double standard.
[quote]Originally posted by trick fall:
<strong>BTW, Scott so you've never taken any student aid in your college career? A rugged individualist such as yourself surely didn't need any help from the government. Your probably sickened by those weak liberals who gladly feed at the trough of TAP etc....</strong><hr></blockquote>
No I did. NIH grants. For which I'm obligated to contribute to the field they helped to fund. Which I will do. But it's apples and oranges. Staying off crack and doing cancer research are not two sides of the same coin.
BTW, I never even filled out an aid application. Got a job and paid every dollar of tuition out of my own pocket.
<strong>Not everyone that has gotten HIV/AIDS was having promiscous sex or doing drugs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No not everyone. But almost everyone. A tiny fraction got it through blood transfusions in the early 1980s. And a small % are babies who get it as a birthday present from their moms. Their moms got it due to sex or drugs. Very close to 100% have gotten it due to sex or drugs. It's just too hard to catch any other way - the virus is too fragile outside of its host.
The point is we can send AIDS the way of smallpox, but we don't even need a vaccine. It used to be pretty easy to catch smallpox - like flus and colds are today. But HIV is extremely difficult to catch. So people need to change their behavior.
I think repeatedly pointing out that anyone can get it sends the wrong message - like it's uncontrollable, and you can't prevent it. Fact is, it is very easily preventable and linked to very specific, controllable behaviors.
<strong>
No not everyone. But almost everyone. A tiny fraction got it through blood transfusions in the early 1980s. And a small % are babies who get it as a birthday present from their moms. Their moms got it due to sex or drugs. Very close to 100% have gotten it due to sex or drugs. It's just too hard to catch any other way - the virus is too fragile outside of its host.
The point is we can send AIDS the way of smallpox, but we don't even need a vaccine. It used to be pretty easy to catch smallpox - like flus and colds are today. But HIV is extremely difficult to catch. So people need to change their behavior.
I think repeatedly pointing out that anyone can get it sends the wrong message - like it's uncontrollable, and you can't prevent it. Fact is, it is very easily preventable and linked to very specific, controllable behaviors.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Finally! The voice of reason! I was going to post somthing similar if I did not read it in this thread. As he so nicely stated, AIDS is not as contagious as the common cold. It usually required intimate relations, blood exchange or something else that is not a normal contact to contract it. AIDS is preventable, but not in todays moral climate. (Shoot I have even read that hte AIDS virus is small enough to permeate an ubroken latex condom in some instances.)
[QB]That CIA/crack thing was false. It's repeated over and over though. One of those things we all "know" is true but isn't.<hr></blockquote>
How so? I don't see a shred of evidence backing up your point. And the only negative response to the Mercury News articles are questions of editorial decisions and examples of government denial. Rather than reject something on face, Scott, why don't you try to analyze all the facts?
(Oh, and it seems people have granted me that Nixon allowed the East Timorese massacre to occur. Thanks)
Saying Reagan caused all those AIDS deaths is just as dumb as Pat Robertson (or was it the other guy) saying gays caused 9-11.
<strong>Yea and Clinton "allowed" Rwanda to happen. I "allowed" someone to driver their car down the street today.
Saying Reagan caused all those AIDS deaths is just as dumb as Pat Robertson (or was it the other guy) saying gays caused 9-11.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, Kissinger, with Nixon's blessing, spoke directly to Suharto and said that the US would do absolutely nothing if Indonesia invaded. Thus, the US DIRECTLY influenced the Indonesian invasion of and subsequent massacre of East Timor.
<strong>That CIA/crack thing was false. It's repeated over and over though. One of those things we all "know" is true but isn't.
See the common theme?
Reagan made me smoke crack. The crack problem is the CIAs fault. We are not responsible for things that are our own fault. We have no control over our lives so there's no point in trying to solve our own problems.
Reagan made me get AIDS. Reagan made me go to the bath houses and have sex with men and/or women and/or shemales and/or hermaphrodites. (happy now?) Reagan also forced me to share needles when I injected IV drugs. None of this is my fault. It's all someone else's.
The common theme of the left is to deflect blame. People are never responsible for their own actions. The little guy has no control over their own life. Blame someone else.
Unless Bill Clinton is in office.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Firsto of all, I did not say that Reagan caused AIDS. The first known AIDS death was in 1959, in Manchester, England. He had nothing to do with that.
What I did say is that Reagan was the worst president of the modern era becasue of his RESPONSE to AIDS. Not becasue he went around infecting people. My point is that if Reagan had wanted to, he could have raised public awareness of the disease and instituted a government policy of how to deal with it. That would have saved lives.
I'm not saying Reagan caused people to get AIDS. I know how you get AIDS, and I know that in most cases it is through an action of your own. I m saying that Reagan didn't do everything he could to help.
Period.
If I knew that everyone was going to get their underwear all knotted up over this, I would have just had someone else be the worst president.