How about they just forget these slavelabor foreign partners and start building their products stateside again? They'd have tighter controls on their products and score some good P.R.
How much more are you willing to pay for all your toys?
How about they just forget these slavelabor foreign partners and start building their products stateside again? They'd have tighter controls on their products and score some good P.R.
The all new, U.S.-made, union-built Apple iPad. Now only $999-$1,499.
So the way to stop the suicides at Foxconn is to remove all the jobs from Foxconn?
Do you realize that the cost per device would go up substantially. If the average wage is $140/month at Foxconn, excluding the cost of power, the plant and whatnot, the wage difference alone would be at least 10x(?) as much per employee.
Unless Apple can automate the process substantially their is no feasible business model that would make bringing this back to the states feasible. The raise they are reportedly offering to Foxconn workers already adds $150 million a year to their expenses.
Every time I see things like this and all the people who come out and say how terrible it is that people make so little, you know it was not too long ago in this country people got paid this little as well and over time things got better. Just because the US has now gotten to the point of people not having to work for low wages and have all it benefits and doing things to improve the environment now they feel the everyone else in world should be doing the exact same thing.
You all forget the fact that you are living off the exact same thing the US did 100 years ago to get where it is today, you can no condemn these people, governments and companies for doing the exact same thing the US did in it past.
If you feel this strongly about what is happening elsewhere go there and help these people fight to improve your life because sitting here and complaining and calling Apple bad or threatening not to buy Apple products will not change a thing. Actually even going to help these people will not help, these people do not want you to help them, because they know when you leave and you will leave things will only get worse for them.
I think Foxconn just assembles the items. Other companies supply the parts.
I hadn't thought of that - Apple contracting directly with component suppliers to send the parts to Foxconn - then with Foxconn to simple put them all together - $11 a unit for final assembly sounds more reasonable.
I was thinking Foxconn would be buying the component parts and then aggregating the total cost up to that point and Apple paying a single bill.
probably works better to have your own contracts with the component suppliers so the assembler doesn't mark them up 100%.
Production facilities will come stateside again when robots can do all the work (and until they form a union).
This is too true, do you know one of the few products mass produced in the US is the GE light bulb, they can make it for far less then they could if they made in china. GE light bulb factor is complete automated, there is very few humans involved in the actually manufacturing of the light bulb. GE at one time looked at moving this overseas to save costs and found out it would cost more, since China does not allow automation especially for tasks which a human could easily do. Any time equipment is installed into a factory in china the government has to approve it and make sure it does not take away a works job. Kind of sounds like what the Unions use to due in the US at one time.
I was thinking Foxconn would be buying the component parts and then aggregating the total cost up to that point and Apple paying a single bill.
[/QUOTE]
This is what does happen, Foxconn buys most of the parts except for critical apply only parts and bill Apple for the parts plus the conversion costs, some of the parts they add an additional mark up on which is unknown since the mark up varies by part. Foxconn true profits are unknown from each product they build.
Think how disheartening it must be to make maybe just enough money to survive, while assembling devices (toys) for the rest of the world. Don't know how a token raise will help when there's little joy in life or job.
The only reason we have affordable high tech products is because of disregard for the environment and poor working conditions in China.
In the US., EPA regulations, medical insurance, retirement, unions, wages, land, construction, taxes, would make the iPad cost prohibitive. Apple wouldn't even sell them because almost no one would be able to afford it if it was manufactured here.
Right on, sir. We have met enemy, and it is us, the electronics consumer.
So while calls for moving manufacturing back to the good old US of A are laudable, they do not reflect the disparity of these costs, they do not reflect on the limited beneficial aspects of the global manufacturing migration, and they usually spring out of a misguided sense of patriotism, a failure to recognize the intertwined state of global economies, and the nature of the US economy.
So wanting to revitalize the manufacturing base in the US is misguided and not beneficial to the world economy? That's Keynesian economics for you... the faulty assumption that natural resources and economic growth is unlimited, employees and facilities are just 'resources', and that profits can always increase if a business is run 'properly'. It's too bad that 99% of the business people and economists in the world still subscribe to that fallacious philosophy.
In fact, it is that ideology that has lead to the steady erosion of the manufacturing and technological base in the US because of 30 years of Republicans giving tax breaks to corporations for shipping such jobs overseas. This of course has not been without the possible collusion of the governments of China and the US to make sure that the environmental and labor laws of China facilitate the exporting of manufacturing jobs from the US to China.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cincytee
The all new, U.S.-made, union-built Apple iPad. Now only $999-$1,499.
I suggest you look up a few facts; labor union power and membership are at all time lows in the US, and the only time they have been lower is the first decade when labor unions first came into being back in the early 1900's. The Republican Plutocracy that has ruled the US for the last 30+ years is directly responsible for this (are you old enough to remember Reagan firing the air-traffic controllers?)
This has been combined with a simultaneous assault on education in the US so that we are now at a point where our ability to compete in these sectors is so low, we're already well behind China and India and other asian countries. Of course, this hasn't countered the fact that the cost of living in the US is so much higher than that of any other country in the world, because so much of what is earned by the average person in the US is now going directly into the offshore bank accounts of companies like Wal-Mart, Exxon, Safeway, and so many more.
Think I'm spewing BS here? Check the facts with congress's OMB. Again, labor union membership and political influence are at an all time low in the US, and the average income in the US has fallen repeatedly over the past ten years. In contrast, the amount of taxes paid by individuals has risen while the amount of taxes paid by corporations has fallen. Even in those corporations, the salary gap between the lowest and highest paid workers has increased in the process. So the rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting poorer. Again, don't believe, go to the OMB's website and see for yourself.
This move by Apple is very much in line with profit-maximizing behavior. I applaud them for it, and also also think it is good for their bottom line in the long run (because of the positive reputational impact). Also, if competitors had to match it, their costs would be raised.
It is time for Apple to start manufacturing in the USA again.
I remember when they made most of their computers in the US, but as they drive to expand profit, they killed off the us based manufacturing plants, i am not even sure if the Mac Pro is made in the US anymore even.
but "Made In China" means alot different from Made in the United States
Are you sure the quality can be matched stateside today? (This is a serious question.)
You should not underestimate the obsessive attention to quality in some of these production/assembly lines of foreign manufacturers in Asian factories, including in China. I am not suggesting that all of them have it -- many do cut corners -- but I would imagine a company like Apple brooks no quality deficit among its suppliers.
As reported in many media outlets and reference in wikipedia, Foxconn is the largest manufacturer of electronics and computer components in the world.
The reason many large American, Japanese, and European companies use Foxconn is because they are one of few companies that can deliver on very large volume orders.
Apple moving their assembly and manufacturing work to the US would be nice, however, I doubt there are any American companies that can deliver on the large volume orders that Apple has. Would that mean that Apple would then have to handle assembly and manufacturing themselves. That's an expensive proposition when you factor in property taxes, costs of running those facilities, higher us wages, health care costs, possibility of union ...
Sure Apple would still make a profit if they moved production stateside, but I suspect they might be at a disadvantage to their competition who might have more money in their warchest to go after Apple. Also profit hungry wallstreet would probably slam apple's stock.
Apple is not responsible for worker's conditions at Foxconn. It's the Chinese Government's responsibility to set and enforce reasonable worker/employer guidelines and regulations.
So the way to stop the suicides at Foxconn is to remove all the jobs from Foxconn?
Do you realize that the cost per device would go up substantially. If the average wage is $140/month at Foxconn, excluding the cost of power, the plant and whatnot, the wage difference alone would be at least 10x(?) as much per employee.
Unless Apple can automate the process substantially their is no feasible business model that would make bringing this back to the states feasible. The raise they are reportedly offering to Foxconn workers already adds $150 million a year to their expenses.
Plus, the entire supply chain components is located substantially closer to China than the US, making it far cheaper to transport and assemble there (and just ship the finished product here).
Well, if so, that is a start for Apple. Apple rakes in billions of dollars in profits; profits gained by either overcharging for its products, or, more apparently, underpaying its employees. Remember, it is how we treat the least amongst that really counts.
Whereas other companies do not rake in billions of dollars in profits. But guess what? It isn't because they are overpaying their employees or lavishing them with comforts or assembling their cellphones in middle America. They're doing the same thing as Apple is (I would argue, worse) but not able to make money, AND, don't care enough to do anything about it.
Hopefully workers of other assembly lines (IBM, HP and so on) will survive this news...
who knows? we don't hear about this stuff until apple is involved. all the haters don't really care about anyone else. after all, dell and hp (and others) have been using foxconn for YEARS and we never heard about this.
i suspect that this all has to do with apples competitors sending their worker bees out into the blogosphere to see what kind of damage they can do to apple?rather than put out any real competition or innovation.
america loves a hero so they can trample and step on them.
Think how disheartening it must be to make maybe just enough money to survive, while assembling devices (toys) for the rest of the world. Don't know how a token raise will help when there's little joy in life or job.
This is not a token raise. It is quite substantial.
1% - 2% of profits is approximately 0.2% - 0.4% of revenues (assuming these have the same 20% profit margin as the rest of Apple). Assuming an average sale price of $600 per iPad, that is $1.20 - $2.40 for each iPad sold. That is 10% - 20% of what it costs to assemble the whole product there!
The only reason we have affordable high tech products is because of disregard for the environment and poor working conditions in China.
In the US., EPA regulations, medical insurance, retirement, unions, wages, land, construction, taxes, would make the iPad cost prohibitive. Apple wouldn't even sell them because almost no one would be able to afford it if it was manufactured here.
I believe that's a copout. The only thing that would change would be Apple's profit margins which would be nowhere near 50%. That being said it won't happen.
Well, if so, that is a start for Apple. Apple rakes in billions of dollars in profits; profits gained by either overcharging for its products, or, more apparently, underpaying its employees. Remember, it is how we treat the least amongst that really counts.
you're a troll. are you more concerned that apple charges more for their products (which, btw, are far superior to it's competitors?and are available to you should you decide to spend less money on them), or are you horrified by the working conditions at foxconn?
if it's the later, then why aren't you pissed off at the other clients of foxconn? i suspect it doesn't matter to you that apple is the ONLY company that requires a 'code of conduct' when they employ overseas. do those companies adhere strictly to that code? don't know. it's been said that only 56% actually comply.
you know what? 56% worker improvements is such a success!
Comments
How about they just forget these slavelabor foreign partners and start building their products stateside again? They'd have tighter controls on their products and score some good P.R.
How much more are you willing to pay for all your toys?
Why subsidies? Why not jobs for Americans?
Production facilities will come stateside again when robots can do all the work (and until they form a union).
How about they just forget these slavelabor foreign partners and start building their products stateside again? They'd have tighter controls on their products and score some good P.R.
The all new, U.S.-made, union-built Apple iPad. Now only $999-$1,499.
Why subsidies? Why not jobs for Americans?
So the way to stop the suicides at Foxconn is to remove all the jobs from Foxconn?
Do you realize that the cost per device would go up substantially. If the average wage is $140/month at Foxconn, excluding the cost of power, the plant and whatnot, the wage difference alone would be at least 10x(?) as much per employee.
Unless Apple can automate the process substantially their is no feasible business model that would make bringing this back to the states feasible. The raise they are reportedly offering to Foxconn workers already adds $150 million a year to their expenses.
You all forget the fact that you are living off the exact same thing the US did 100 years ago to get where it is today, you can no condemn these people, governments and companies for doing the exact same thing the US did in it past.
If you feel this strongly about what is happening elsewhere go there and help these people fight to improve your life because sitting here and complaining and calling Apple bad or threatening not to buy Apple products will not change a thing. Actually even going to help these people will not help, these people do not want you to help them, because they know when you leave and you will leave things will only get worse for them.
I think Foxconn just assembles the items. Other companies supply the parts.
I hadn't thought of that - Apple contracting directly with component suppliers to send the parts to Foxconn - then with Foxconn to simple put them all together - $11 a unit for final assembly sounds more reasonable.
I was thinking Foxconn would be buying the component parts and then aggregating the total cost up to that point and Apple paying a single bill.
probably works better to have your own contracts with the component suppliers so the assembler doesn't mark them up 100%.
Production facilities will come stateside again when robots can do all the work (and until they form a union).
This is too true, do you know one of the few products mass produced in the US is the GE light bulb, they can make it for far less then they could if they made in china. GE light bulb factor is complete automated, there is very few humans involved in the actually manufacturing of the light bulb. GE at one time looked at moving this overseas to save costs and found out it would cost more, since China does not allow automation especially for tasks which a human could easily do. Any time equipment is installed into a factory in china the government has to approve it and make sure it does not take away a works job. Kind of sounds like what the Unions use to due in the US at one time.
I was thinking Foxconn would be buying the component parts and then aggregating the total cost up to that point and Apple paying a single bill.
[/QUOTE]
This is what does happen, Foxconn buys most of the parts except for critical apply only parts and bill Apple for the parts plus the conversion costs, some of the parts they add an additional mark up on which is unknown since the mark up varies by part. Foxconn true profits are unknown from each product they build.
The only reason we have affordable high tech products is because of disregard for the environment and poor working conditions in China.
In the US., EPA regulations, medical insurance, retirement, unions, wages, land, construction, taxes, would make the iPad cost prohibitive. Apple wouldn't even sell them because almost no one would be able to afford it if it was manufactured here.
Right on, sir. We have met enemy, and it is us, the electronics consumer.
So while calls for moving manufacturing back to the good old US of A are laudable, they do not reflect the disparity of these costs, they do not reflect on the limited beneficial aspects of the global manufacturing migration, and they usually spring out of a misguided sense of patriotism, a failure to recognize the intertwined state of global economies, and the nature of the US economy.
So wanting to revitalize the manufacturing base in the US is misguided and not beneficial to the world economy? That's Keynesian economics for you... the faulty assumption that natural resources and economic growth is unlimited, employees and facilities are just 'resources', and that profits can always increase if a business is run 'properly'. It's too bad that 99% of the business people and economists in the world still subscribe to that fallacious philosophy.
In fact, it is that ideology that has lead to the steady erosion of the manufacturing and technological base in the US because of 30 years of Republicans giving tax breaks to corporations for shipping such jobs overseas. This of course has not been without the possible collusion of the governments of China and the US to make sure that the environmental and labor laws of China facilitate the exporting of manufacturing jobs from the US to China.
The all new, U.S.-made, union-built Apple iPad. Now only $999-$1,499.
I suggest you look up a few facts; labor union power and membership are at all time lows in the US, and the only time they have been lower is the first decade when labor unions first came into being back in the early 1900's. The Republican Plutocracy that has ruled the US for the last 30+ years is directly responsible for this (are you old enough to remember Reagan firing the air-traffic controllers?)
This has been combined with a simultaneous assault on education in the US so that we are now at a point where our ability to compete in these sectors is so low, we're already well behind China and India and other asian countries. Of course, this hasn't countered the fact that the cost of living in the US is so much higher than that of any other country in the world, because so much of what is earned by the average person in the US is now going directly into the offshore bank accounts of companies like Wal-Mart, Exxon, Safeway, and so many more.
Think I'm spewing BS here? Check the facts with congress's OMB. Again, labor union membership and political influence are at an all time low in the US, and the average income in the US has fallen repeatedly over the past ten years. In contrast, the amount of taxes paid by individuals has risen while the amount of taxes paid by corporations has fallen. Even in those corporations, the salary gap between the lowest and highest paid workers has increased in the process. So the rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting poorer. Again, don't believe, go to the OMB's website and see for yourself.
Maximize profits!
This move by Apple is very much in line with profit-maximizing behavior. I applaud them for it, and also also think it is good for their bottom line in the long run (because of the positive reputational impact). Also, if competitors had to match it, their costs would be raised.
It is time for Apple to start manufacturing in the USA again.
I remember when they made most of their computers in the US, but as they drive to expand profit, they killed off the us based manufacturing plants, i am not even sure if the Mac Pro is made in the US anymore even.
but "Made In China" means alot different from Made in the United States
Are you sure the quality can be matched stateside today? (This is a serious question.)
You should not underestimate the obsessive attention to quality in some of these production/assembly lines of foreign manufacturers in Asian factories, including in China. I am not suggesting that all of them have it -- many do cut corners -- but I would imagine a company like Apple brooks no quality deficit among its suppliers.
The reason many large American, Japanese, and European companies use Foxconn is because they are one of few companies that can deliver on very large volume orders.
Apple moving their assembly and manufacturing work to the US would be nice, however, I doubt there are any American companies that can deliver on the large volume orders that Apple has. Would that mean that Apple would then have to handle assembly and manufacturing themselves. That's an expensive proposition when you factor in property taxes, costs of running those facilities, higher us wages, health care costs, possibility of union ...
Sure Apple would still make a profit if they moved production stateside, but I suspect they might be at a disadvantage to their competition who might have more money in their warchest to go after Apple. Also profit hungry wallstreet would probably slam apple's stock.
Apple is not responsible for worker's conditions at Foxconn. It's the Chinese Government's responsibility to set and enforce reasonable worker/employer guidelines and regulations.
So the way to stop the suicides at Foxconn is to remove all the jobs from Foxconn?
Do you realize that the cost per device would go up substantially. If the average wage is $140/month at Foxconn, excluding the cost of power, the plant and whatnot, the wage difference alone would be at least 10x(?) as much per employee.
Unless Apple can automate the process substantially their is no feasible business model that would make bringing this back to the states feasible. The raise they are reportedly offering to Foxconn workers already adds $150 million a year to their expenses.
Plus, the entire supply chain components is located substantially closer to China than the US, making it far cheaper to transport and assemble there (and just ship the finished product here).
This train has so left the station......
Well, if so, that is a start for Apple. Apple rakes in billions of dollars in profits; profits gained by either overcharging for its products, or, more apparently, underpaying its employees. Remember, it is how we treat the least amongst that really counts.
Whereas other companies do not rake in billions of dollars in profits. But guess what? It isn't because they are overpaying their employees or lavishing them with comforts or assembling their cellphones in middle America. They're doing the same thing as Apple is (I would argue, worse) but not able to make money, AND, don't care enough to do anything about it.
Hopefully workers of other assembly lines (IBM, HP and so on) will survive this news...
who knows? we don't hear about this stuff until apple is involved. all the haters don't really care about anyone else. after all, dell and hp (and others) have been using foxconn for YEARS and we never heard about this.
i suspect that this all has to do with apples competitors sending their worker bees out into the blogosphere to see what kind of damage they can do to apple?rather than put out any real competition or innovation.
america loves a hero so they can trample and step on them.
Think how disheartening it must be to make maybe just enough money to survive, while assembling devices (toys) for the rest of the world. Don't know how a token raise will help when there's little joy in life or job.
This is not a token raise. It is quite substantial.
1% - 2% of profits is approximately 0.2% - 0.4% of revenues (assuming these have the same 20% profit margin as the rest of Apple). Assuming an average sale price of $600 per iPad, that is $1.20 - $2.40 for each iPad sold. That is 10% - 20% of what it costs to assemble the whole product there!
The only reason we have affordable high tech products is because of disregard for the environment and poor working conditions in China.
In the US., EPA regulations, medical insurance, retirement, unions, wages, land, construction, taxes, would make the iPad cost prohibitive. Apple wouldn't even sell them because almost no one would be able to afford it if it was manufactured here.
I believe that's a copout. The only thing that would change would be Apple's profit margins which would be nowhere near 50%. That being said it won't happen.
Well, if so, that is a start for Apple. Apple rakes in billions of dollars in profits; profits gained by either overcharging for its products, or, more apparently, underpaying its employees. Remember, it is how we treat the least amongst that really counts.
you're a troll. are you more concerned that apple charges more for their products (which, btw, are far superior to it's competitors?and are available to you should you decide to spend less money on them), or are you horrified by the working conditions at foxconn?
if it's the later, then why aren't you pissed off at the other clients of foxconn? i suspect it doesn't matter to you that apple is the ONLY company that requires a 'code of conduct' when they employ overseas. do those companies adhere strictly to that code? don't know. it's been said that only 56% actually comply.
you know what? 56% worker improvements is such a success!
you're just a troll with nothing better to do.