The average joe consumer doesn't know or care anything about HTML5.
The other browsers don't yet fully support these functions. The whole point of this demonstration is to push others to support it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
Umm, the HTML5 landing page is linked from the Apple main page -- this is to hook regular consumers into testing out HTML5.
I would argue that if you're gonna have a link off your main page directing consumers to try your HTML5 stuff, you would better support other browsers with your demos.
Does anybody else think they may be replacing the iTunes/iLife apps with Safari based HTML5 versions? The demos on this webpage show off some of the basic features from these apps.
First off? the HTML5 demos are technology previews. They are designed to showcase what can be done today and the potential for tomorrow. They were not built to be viewed by anything but Safari since they are geared towards the development community.
Second off? People really need to ask themselves why its taken 10 years for the move from HTML4 to HTML5. Its a bloody mess and the in-fighting has hurt not only the advances of the web, but the consumer (that is us) as well. The pawns always die first.
Thirdly? its obvious we have a bunch of morons here so I have compiled a list of direct links to the content as well as which browsers are supported for each demo. Interesting to note what is and what is not supported.
I should also add and this is important?. that HTML5 needs a huge push from the consumer (that is us again) to really make the browser developers get off their lazy asses and put in HTML5 support. Its simple.. its important? its needed? and its a crime not to.
* This demo requires a browser that takes advantage of hardware acceleration. The CSS 3D transforms used in this demo are currently supported only by Safari 4 on Mac OS X Snow Leopard, mobile Safari on iPad or iPhone, or the latest WebKit nightly build.
IE isn't mentioned anywhere and has the dominant market share.
This is the exactly correct. If windows ie users can't view this stuff, then it's worthless on desktops. I think there is potential on mobile devices. Someone needs to explain to me why program in html 5 when about 10% of the windows users are still using 10 year old browsers?
Why bother making pro apps when 80% of PC users have $300 Dell/HP machines? Why bother offering better quality audio codecs when the majority can't tell the difference? Why bother implementing proper standards based tech when most people don't care? Why bother offering better cooked food when so many people think McDonalds is fine. And so on.
If you feel you need to reach 100% of web users, then you should stick to basic HTML, and probably HTML3, no javascript, no css, no flash. If you are interested in doing something interesting, or in monetizing your website, then you should simply ignore that 10% as they will simply hold you back and don't represent any significant revenue opportunities.
I love html 5 but here are some critical issues.
1. Almost 10% if internet users worldwide use 10 year old browsers ... browsers that will never support html 5.
2. Windows users ... especially in businesses are slow to upgrade unless machines break and they have to
3. Html 5 works on 0 (that is zero) windows desktops running non-beta versions of internet explorer
4. Approx 60% of desktop computers users in the world today use internet explorer on windows
Because of this (at least for non-mobile applications) i will avoid html5. That is until i see IE share reduce to insignificant levels ... or is see IE9 come out final release with quick adoption.
I missed the point of the "manipulate 360-degree photo": it is not any kind of 360-degree photo but an image sequence made of 72 photos showed thru java script, nothing specific to HTML5...
I am still waiting for any kind of vectorized animation or calculus intensive task from Apple to show us how "brilliantly" HTML5 Canvas and plain JS compare with Flash. I won't hold my breath.
IE at this point does not support HTML5 in any serious way. It doesn't bear mentioning, at least until IE 9.
The other fact is that mobile web devices are growing faster than personal computers. Apple is focused on the future. Mobile web is dominated bt HTML5. IE has zero presence in the mobile market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert
IE isn't mentioned anywhere and has the dominant market share.
1. Almost 10% if internet users worldwide use 10 year old browsers ... browsers that will never support html 5.
2. Windows users ... especially in businesses are slow to upgrade unless machines break and they have to
3. Html 5 works on 0 (that is zero) windows desktops running non-beta versions of internet explorer
4. Approx 60% of desktop computers users in the world today use internet explorer on windows
Because of this (at least for non-mobile applications) i will avoid html5. That is until i see IE share reduce to insignificant levels ... or is see IE9 come out final release with quick adoption.
1. Apple doesn't care about those people that use 10 year old browsers. Remember, this is the company that dropped the floppy before anyone else did.
2. Apple isn't targeting slow to upgrade businesses.
3. That isn't correct at all. Both Chrome and Firefox on Windows support most of these demos.
4. That number has been decreasing pretty rapidly. That is why the IE team is starting to move towards more standards. We'll see how far they take it.
The fact of the matter is that web developers have always had to target multiple browsers with different capabilities. Apple is trying to force browser developers to adopt some of the more advanced features in the current spec as well as introduce some new features to the spec. We are in a time of change and change is rough sometimes. They are also trying to enlighten their iPhone OS user base that Flash isn't the only answer and that an alternative is available right now. The only users that Apple cares about is their users.
1. Apple doesn't care about those people that use 10 year old browsers. Remember, this is the company that dropped the floppy before anyone else did.
2. Apple isn't targeting slow to upgrade businesses.
3. That isn't correct at all. Both Chrome and Firefox on Windows support most of these demos.
4. That number has been decreasing pretty rapidly. That is why the IE team is starting to move towards more standards. We'll see how far they take it.
The fact of the matter is that web developers have always had to target multiple browsers with different capabilities. Apple is trying to force browser developers to adopt some of the more advanced features in the current spec as well as introduce some new features to the spec. We are in a time of change and change is rough sometimes. They are also trying to enlighten their iPhone OS user base that Flash isn't the only answer and that an alternative is available right now. The only users that Apple cares about is their users.
you make good points except i will argue that my 3rd point IS correct because i am specifying windows users who use the microsoft default browser internet explorer. Most windows users are still using the IE.
Does anybody else think they may be replacing the iTunes/iLife apps with Safari based HTML5 versions? The demos on this webpage show off some of the basic features from these apps.
They force you to use Safari and when i open "VR" it says I "Need a browser that supports CSS 3D transforms".
And THEY are bashing on Flash?
C'mon Apple, what are you doing? Instead of giving Web Developers freedom to develop websites in anything they want to, they force us on doing it 'their' way, just because of their iPad and iPhone...
I have absolutely no problem with HTML5 and CSS3, but give us a choice...
You are narrowly focused on the personal computer. Apple's focus is on mobile devices. The mobile web is growing fast and is the future of web growth and development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim
Because of this (at least for non-mobile applications) i will avoid html5. That is until i see IE share reduce to insignificant levels ... or is see IE9 come out final release with quick adoption.
1. Apple doesn't care about those people that use 10 year old browsers. Remember, this is the company that dropped the floppy before anyone else did.
It's not even a matter of whether Apple cares. As a website owner, unless there is some very specific reason why you want to reach that particular demographic, you shouldn't care because they are of no value to you.
You are narrowly focused on the personal computer. Apple's focus is on mobile devices. The mobile web is growing fast and is the future of web growth and development.
It will be nice to have a solution that works both on desktops and mobile devices (development budgets are only so big). I think we will have a good indication where to go with this technology by spring next year. I think we are finally at that turning point similar to the 3.5 floppy drives. By then flash mobile will either be a success or failure on the androids. I personally hope html5 wins this battle and windows users get on board. We will see.
I'd argue that Apple is pushing the boundaries of what can be done, by showcasing the stuff. As a web developer, I'd love to code in HTML5 rather than in Flash. Even if only a subset of the population can access those features. In a few years, most people will upgrade to browsers that support that functionality anyway, so comments suggesting that this is supposed to go on production environments now with everyone being able to view it are either idiots or trolls. In a few years, yes, you can bet they will go on production environments and the majority of people will be able to view it. Chrome already has 7% of the browser market share, Safari is around 5%, and Firefox is about 24%. IE is slowly losing market share to 60% (statistics all pulled from Net Applications). However, I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that IE will decline to 50% within this year. And to 40% next year.
It's because they are trying to promote CSS 3D Transforms. What would be the point of showcasing a function in a browser that cannot show you what it is presenting?
It's like going to the Flash gallery on Adobe's site. Expecting to see the Flash gallery without needing the Flash plug in. What would be the point of a Flash gallery?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huby
They force you to use Safari and when i open "VR" it says I "Need a browser that supports CSS 3D transforms".
And THEY are bashing on Flash?
C'mon Apple, what are you doing? Instead of giving Web Developers freedom to develop websites in anything they want to, they force us on doing it 'their' way, just because of their iPad and iPhone...
I have absolutely no problem with HTML5 and CSS3, but give us a choice...
Comments
The other browsers don't yet fully support these functions. The whole point of this demonstration is to push others to support it.
Umm, the HTML5 landing page is linked from the Apple main page -- this is to hook regular consumers into testing out HTML5.
I would argue that if you're gonna have a link off your main page directing consumers to try your HTML5 stuff, you would better support other browsers with your demos.
What do you think?
First off? the HTML5 demos are technology previews. They are designed to showcase what can be done today and the potential for tomorrow. They were not built to be viewed by anything but Safari since they are geared towards the development community.
Second off? People really need to ask themselves why its taken 10 years for the move from HTML4 to HTML5. Its a bloody mess and the in-fighting has hurt not only the advances of the web, but the consumer (that is us) as well. The pawns always die first.
Thirdly? its obvious we have a bunch of morons here so I have compiled a list of direct links to the content as well as which browsers are supported for each demo. Interesting to note what is and what is not supported.
I should also add and this is important?. that HTML5 needs a huge push from the consumer (that is us again) to really make the browser developers get off their lazy asses and put in HTML5 support. Its simple.. its important? its needed? and its a crime not to.
S = http://www.apple.com/safari/
C = http://www.google.com/chrome/
F = http://www.getfirefox.com/
O = http://www.opera.com/
Video {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/video/
Typography {S,C,F,O}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridem...se/typography/
Gallery {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridem...wcase/gallery/
Transitions {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridem...e/transitions/
Audio {S,C,F,O}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/audio/
360 {S,C,F,O}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridem...se/threesixty/
VR {S}[*]: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/showcase/vr/
Pixels {S,C,F}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridem...lManipulation/
Notes {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/StickyNotes/
Poster {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/ConcertPoster/
Checkers {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/Checkers/
Light Table {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/LightTable/
Calendar {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/OfflineCalendar/
Trailer {S,C}: http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/MovieTrailers/
* This demo requires a browser that takes advantage of hardware acceleration. The CSS 3D transforms used in this demo are currently supported only by Safari 4 on Mac OS X Snow Leopard, mobile Safari on iPad or iPhone, or the latest WebKit nightly build.
IE isn't mentioned anywhere and has the dominant market share.
This is the exactly correct. If windows ie users can't view this stuff, then it's worthless on desktops. I think there is potential on mobile devices. Someone needs to explain to me why program in html 5 when about 10% of the windows users are still using 10 year old browsers?
Why bother making pro apps when 80% of PC users have $300 Dell/HP machines? Why bother offering better quality audio codecs when the majority can't tell the difference? Why bother implementing proper standards based tech when most people don't care? Why bother offering better cooked food when so many people think McDonalds is fine. And so on.
If you feel you need to reach 100% of web users, then you should stick to basic HTML, and probably HTML3, no javascript, no css, no flash. If you are interested in doing something interesting, or in monetizing your website, then you should simply ignore that 10% as they will simply hold you back and don't represent any significant revenue opportunities.
I love html 5 but here are some critical issues.
1. Almost 10% if internet users worldwide use 10 year old browsers ... browsers that will never support html 5.
2. Windows users ... especially in businesses are slow to upgrade unless machines break and they have to
3. Html 5 works on 0 (that is zero) windows desktops running non-beta versions of internet explorer
4. Approx 60% of desktop computers users in the world today use internet explorer on windows
Because of this (at least for non-mobile applications) i will avoid html5. That is until i see IE share reduce to insignificant levels ... or is see IE9 come out final release with quick adoption.
I missed the point of the "manipulate 360-degree photo": it is not any kind of 360-degree photo but an image sequence made of 72 photos showed thru java script, nothing specific to HTML5...
I am still waiting for any kind of vectorized animation or calculus intensive task from Apple to show us how "brilliantly" HTML5 Canvas and plain JS compare with Flash. I won't hold my breath.
http://www.webmonkey.com/2010/06/smo...t-the-plug-in/
The other fact is that mobile web devices are growing faster than personal computers. Apple is focused on the future. Mobile web is dominated bt HTML5. IE has zero presence in the mobile market.
IE isn't mentioned anywhere and has the dominant market share.
I love html 5 but here are some critical issues.
1. Almost 10% if internet users worldwide use 10 year old browsers ... browsers that will never support html 5.
2. Windows users ... especially in businesses are slow to upgrade unless machines break and they have to
3. Html 5 works on 0 (that is zero) windows desktops running non-beta versions of internet explorer
4. Approx 60% of desktop computers users in the world today use internet explorer on windows
Because of this (at least for non-mobile applications) i will avoid html5. That is until i see IE share reduce to insignificant levels ... or is see IE9 come out final release with quick adoption.
1. Apple doesn't care about those people that use 10 year old browsers. Remember, this is the company that dropped the floppy before anyone else did.
2. Apple isn't targeting slow to upgrade businesses.
3. That isn't correct at all. Both Chrome and Firefox on Windows support most of these demos.
4. That number has been decreasing pretty rapidly. That is why the IE team is starting to move towards more standards. We'll see how far they take it.
The fact of the matter is that web developers have always had to target multiple browsers with different capabilities. Apple is trying to force browser developers to adopt some of the more advanced features in the current spec as well as introduce some new features to the spec. We are in a time of change and change is rough sometimes. They are also trying to enlighten their iPhone OS user base that Flash isn't the only answer and that an alternative is available right now. The only users that Apple cares about is their users.
1. Apple doesn't care about those people that use 10 year old browsers. Remember, this is the company that dropped the floppy before anyone else did.
2. Apple isn't targeting slow to upgrade businesses.
3. That isn't correct at all. Both Chrome and Firefox on Windows support most of these demos.
4. That number has been decreasing pretty rapidly. That is why the IE team is starting to move towards more standards. We'll see how far they take it.
The fact of the matter is that web developers have always had to target multiple browsers with different capabilities. Apple is trying to force browser developers to adopt some of the more advanced features in the current spec as well as introduce some new features to the spec. We are in a time of change and change is rough sometimes. They are also trying to enlighten their iPhone OS user base that Flash isn't the only answer and that an alternative is available right now. The only users that Apple cares about is their users.
you make good points except i will argue that my 3rd point IS correct because i am specifying windows users who use the microsoft default browser internet explorer. Most windows users are still using the IE.
Does anybody else think they may be replacing the iTunes/iLife apps with Safari based HTML5 versions? The demos on this webpage show off some of the basic features from these apps.
What do you think?
iTunes is already largely WebKit based.
And THEY are bashing on Flash?
C'mon Apple, what are you doing? Instead of giving Web Developers freedom to develop websites in anything they want to, they force us on doing it 'their' way, just because of their iPad and iPhone...
I have absolutely no problem with HTML5 and CSS3, but give us a choice...
Because of this (at least for non-mobile applications) i will avoid html5. That is until i see IE share reduce to insignificant levels ... or is see IE9 come out final release with quick adoption.
1. Apple doesn't care about those people that use 10 year old browsers. Remember, this is the company that dropped the floppy before anyone else did.
It's not even a matter of whether Apple cares. As a website owner, unless there is some very specific reason why you want to reach that particular demographic, you shouldn't care because they are of no value to you.
I say 200..
3. Html 5 works on 0 (that is zero) windows desktops running non-beta versions of internet explorer
You are narrowly focused on the personal computer. Apple's focus is on mobile devices. The mobile web is growing fast and is the future of web growth and development.
It will be nice to have a solution that works both on desktops and mobile devices (development budgets are only so big). I think we will have a good indication where to go with this technology by spring next year. I think we are finally at that turning point similar to the 3.5 floppy drives. By then flash mobile will either be a success or failure on the androids. I personally hope html5 wins this battle and windows users get on board. We will see.
This is completley wrong. Firefox, Chrome, and Opera all support HTML5. They just don't support all of the extensions that Safari supports.
It is not wrong. Read my post. I'm referring to the users of IE and windows ... in other words the lions share of the market!
It's like going to the Flash gallery on Adobe's site. Expecting to see the Flash gallery without needing the Flash plug in. What would be the point of a Flash gallery?
They force you to use Safari and when i open "VR" it says I "Need a browser that supports CSS 3D transforms".
And THEY are bashing on Flash?
C'mon Apple, what are you doing? Instead of giving Web Developers freedom to develop websites in anything they want to, they force us on doing it 'their' way, just because of their iPad and iPhone...
I have absolutely no problem with HTML5 and CSS3, but give us a choice...