Normally I would agree with that but the fact is that he tried it 3 times and the results were the same which leads me to believe that the new antenna’s less sensitive. He tried loading the NT Time page twice on the original demo model, he then switched to the backup demo units and got the same result. The 3GS was able to load most of the page while the new iPhone 4 just kept saying it could not get a connection.
I recently finished blanketing our facilities with b/g/n wifi nodes. Let me assure you, identical hardware frequently exhibits this exact behavior in a noisy environment.
The blowers, forges, and grinders in our cleanrooms throw an amazing amount of RF. We eventually tracked down the problem as originating from the cheap power supplies on some our newer forges. Once these were replaced, our wireless devices could once again connect in a predictable and reliable fashion. Previously, random wireless terminals/barcode-scanners would lose connectivity. You could be holding two scanners, one in your left hand and one in your right. The one in your left hand would work perfectly while the one in your right couldn't establish a wireless connection. Wait five minutes... the one in your left hand had lost connectivity and the one in your right would work perfectly.
In other words, your conclusions are unfounded. (even if they turn out to be true)
I agree with the suggestion that Apple should resume the live webcast.
But also -- couldn't they have reserved one WiFi channel for internal use only? Just tell all atendees that they are prohibited from using Channel 4, for instance, and that they need to prepare their WiFi devices accordingly before their arrival at Moscone.
Even if some don't comply, and if Apple doesn't want to go Nazi about it, the selected channel would still be much clearer as most of the attendees would have followed the instruction.
Wifi channels overlap. Channel 4 overlaps all channels except for channel 11 (and perhaps 10). If used exclusively, channels 1, 6, and 11 are non-overlapping.
Wifi channels overlap. Channel 4 overlaps all channels except for channel 11 (and perhaps 10). If used exclusively, channels 1, 6, and 11 are non-overlapping.
Thanks for the lesson. So Apple could ban the use of channels 1-5, and use channel 1 exclusively without interference.
Thanks for the lesson. So Apple could ban the use of channels 1-5, and use channel 1 exclusively without interference.
Thank YOU for the lesson actually. That diagram shows that I was overestimating the overlap.
I do think that getting people to voluntarily curtail wifi use is one of the few viable solutions. Unless of course... apple were to use one of those upper channels which are prohibited from use in the United States.
Apple was a victim of their own success, and WiFi adoption at levels they may not even have dreamt of when they introduced AirPort.
The pathetic blogger who was quoted... what a Block-head! Typifies the breed, so used to miracles they think the entire universe should bend to their whim. "We're not signing off! Steve if you can't change the laws of Physics, then sucks to be you!" Idiots.
Not sure what the solution is. Preventing people from bringing mobile devices to an Apple Keynote seems like a dead end. Offering a common access point would maybe help; if enough attendees could be bothered to comply. Still, so many devices in one space...
Perhaps Steve will have to do his next demo from within a Faraday Cage.
During the side by side demo, the new iPhone 4 with the new antenna wasn?t able to pick up Wi-Fi to load NYTimes web site, while the old 3GS was able to. In fact, it looked as if the 3GS was much better able to pick up a signal.
Now, it could be that there was something wrong with that pre-release IOS 4 which is causing the problem with the new phone but I think not. I think they haven?t optimized the antenna yet or the new antenna doesn?t work as well as advertised.
I noticed this as well and posted a similar comment on this forum. After doing so, I thought of another possibility of what could have happened. AGAIN PURE CONJECTURE. It could have been that the two phones were connecting to different routers. The 3GS was connecting to a G router and the iPhone 4 was attempting to use a N router. Someone in the forum mentioned problems with N which would explain why the iPhone 4 was not able to connect and the 3GS was able to connect albeit slowly. This is just another idea I had after thinking about this a little bit more. \
Hopefully whwn the IPHONE 4 hits the street it will work better than in the demo.
Most probably the fact that several hundred journalists were using WIFI to blog the presentation and this caused the problem. Remember that concentration of WIFI in a limited area depleats strength.
I'm not sure there would be 5000 people in the main conference hall. A good number of developers don't even go to the keynote and they always have overflow rooms that are pretty full with live video feeds. Of course, people in those other rooms would also be using WiFi, but they'd be fairly distant with several walls (or floors/ceilings) between them and the keynote stage. Then again, there are members of the press who attend only the keynote and that aren't developers so I'm not exactly sure how many people would be needed to fill the main hall.
I can't be sure of how many persons were using WiFi or MiFi or whatever, but from previous WWDCs I know that a lot of people sit and answer email, play online games, and browse the web while the keynote is being given. Why they spend thousands of dollars and travel thousands of miles just to do those activities during the conference has always amazed me but I guess it is because they aren't paying for the trip (their company pays).
The auditorium has some serious capacity, I can't find hard info on what it is. A few thousand anyway.
But the video makes it clear that it Jobs said 570 base stations, which was reiterated and also confirmed as MiFi type devices.
I am not up on MIFI but if you have that many devices in a room broadcasting and reaching out to get a signal via WIFI or MIFI then does overlap even matter at that point in such a small open space?
It seems there would be so much RF bouncing around it would still be a problem.
This has raised an interesting problem to which Apple I am sure will develop a solution. I wonder what that solution will be.
I am not up on MIFI but if you have that many devices in a room broadcasting and reaching out to get a signal via WIFI or MIFI then does overlap even matter at that point in such a small open space?
It seems there would be so much RF bouncing around it would still be a problem.
This has raised an interesting problem to which Apple I am sure will develop a solution. I wonder what that solution will be.
You have a point there, though turning off the mobile access points seemed to do the trick.
MiFi is a device, and it is a pocket WiFi access point (aka base station) that uses cellular data as the internet source.
I don't know what the solution is, I think a high gain directional antenna might do the trick. Attach it to the spot light and you have a narrow cone of strong signal out and strong reception isolation that would hopefully overcome the noise.
A bunch of inept "journalists" and "experts in construction and real estate", being unable to figure it's the same 3G behind their routers, managed to make the head of the most innovative company of modern days be acting like a principal of their public school. Incredible. Admittedly, never saw anything like that before...
Comments
Normally I would agree with that but the fact is that he tried it 3 times and the results were the same which leads me to believe that the new antenna’s less sensitive. He tried loading the NT Time page twice on the original demo model, he then switched to the backup demo units and got the same result. The 3GS was able to load most of the page while the new iPhone 4 just kept saying it could not get a connection.
Go watch that video again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmZkr...layer_embedded
I recently finished blanketing our facilities with b/g/n wifi nodes. Let me assure you, identical hardware frequently exhibits this exact behavior in a noisy environment.
The blowers, forges, and grinders in our cleanrooms throw an amazing amount of RF. We eventually tracked down the problem as originating from the cheap power supplies on some our newer forges. Once these were replaced, our wireless devices could once again connect in a predictable and reliable fashion. Previously, random wireless terminals/barcode-scanners would lose connectivity. You could be holding two scanners, one in your left hand and one in your right. The one in your left hand would work perfectly while the one in your right couldn't establish a wireless connection. Wait five minutes... the one in your left hand had lost connectivity and the one in your right would work perfectly.
In other words, your conclusions are unfounded. (even if they turn out to be true)
I agree with the suggestion that Apple should resume the live webcast.
But also -- couldn't they have reserved one WiFi channel for internal use only? Just tell all atendees that they are prohibited from using Channel 4, for instance, and that they need to prepare their WiFi devices accordingly before their arrival at Moscone.
Even if some don't comply, and if Apple doesn't want to go Nazi about it, the selected channel would still be much clearer as most of the attendees would have followed the instruction.
Wifi channels overlap. Channel 4 overlaps all channels except for channel 11 (and perhaps 10). If used exclusively, channels 1, 6, and 11 are non-overlapping.
Wifi channels overlap. Channel 4 overlaps all channels except for channel 11 (and perhaps 10). If used exclusively, channels 1, 6, and 11 are non-overlapping.
Thanks for the lesson. So Apple could ban the use of channels 1-5, and use channel 1 exclusively without interference.
Thanks for the lesson. So Apple could ban the use of channels 1-5, and use channel 1 exclusively without interference.
Thank YOU for the lesson actually. That diagram shows that I was overestimating the overlap.
I do think that getting people to voluntarily curtail wifi use is one of the few viable solutions. Unless of course... apple were to use one of those upper channels which are prohibited from use in the United States.
The pathetic blogger who was quoted... what a Block-head! Typifies the breed, so used to miracles they think the entire universe should bend to their whim. "We're not signing off! Steve if you can't change the laws of Physics, then sucks to be you!" Idiots.
Not sure what the solution is. Preventing people from bringing mobile devices to an Apple Keynote seems like a dead end. Offering a common access point would maybe help; if enough attendees could be bothered to comply. Still, so many devices in one space...
Perhaps Steve will have to do his next demo from within a Faraday Cage.
During the side by side demo, the new iPhone 4 with the new antenna wasn?t able to pick up Wi-Fi to load NYTimes web site, while the old 3GS was able to. In fact, it looked as if the 3GS was much better able to pick up a signal.
Now, it could be that there was something wrong with that pre-release IOS 4 which is causing the problem with the new phone but I think not. I think they haven?t optimized the antenna yet or the new antenna doesn?t work as well as advertised.
I noticed this as well and posted a similar comment on this forum. After doing so, I thought of another possibility of what could have happened. AGAIN PURE CONJECTURE. It could have been that the two phones were connecting to different routers. The 3GS was connecting to a G router and the iPhone 4 was attempting to use a N router. Someone in the forum mentioned problems with N which would explain why the iPhone 4 was not able to connect and the 3GS was able to connect albeit slowly. This is just another idea I had after thinking about this a little bit more.
Most probably the fact that several hundred journalists were using WIFI to blog the presentation and this caused the problem. Remember that concentration of WIFI in a limited area depleats strength.
I'm not sure there would be 5000 people in the main conference hall. A good number of developers don't even go to the keynote and they always have overflow rooms that are pretty full with live video feeds. Of course, people in those other rooms would also be using WiFi, but they'd be fairly distant with several walls (or floors/ceilings) between them and the keynote stage. Then again, there are members of the press who attend only the keynote and that aren't developers so I'm not exactly sure how many people would be needed to fill the main hall.
I can't be sure of how many persons were using WiFi or MiFi or whatever, but from previous WWDCs I know that a lot of people sit and answer email, play online games, and browse the web while the keynote is being given. Why they spend thousands of dollars and travel thousands of miles just to do those activities during the conference has always amazed me but I guess it is because they aren't paying for the trip (their company pays).
The auditorium has some serious capacity, I can't find hard info on what it is. A few thousand anyway.
But the video makes it clear that it Jobs said 570 base stations, which was reiterated and also confirmed as MiFi type devices.
It seems there would be so much RF bouncing around it would still be a problem.
This has raised an interesting problem to which Apple I am sure will develop a solution. I wonder what that solution will be.
I am not up on MIFI but if you have that many devices in a room broadcasting and reaching out to get a signal via WIFI or MIFI then does overlap even matter at that point in such a small open space?
It seems there would be so much RF bouncing around it would still be a problem.
This has raised an interesting problem to which Apple I am sure will develop a solution. I wonder what that solution will be.
You have a point there, though turning off the mobile access points seemed to do the trick.
MiFi is a device, and it is a pocket WiFi access point (aka base station) that uses cellular data as the internet source.
I don't know what the solution is, I think a high gain directional antenna might do the trick. Attach it to the spot light and you have a narrow cone of strong signal out and strong reception isolation that would hopefully overcome the noise.
A bunch of inept "journalists" and "experts in construction and real estate", being unable to figure it's the same 3G behind their routers, managed to make the head of the most innovative company of modern days be acting like a principal of their public school. Incredible. Admittedly, never saw anything like that before...