Well, they still aren't ready for Mac OS and they aren't even close to ready for Linux, so it's not really surprising that they aren't ready for mobile, and they never will be ready. In one sense, we should be fair to Adobe and acknowledge that supporting a complex piece of software on 3 platforms is a difficult task, and supporting it on, several new platforms with completely new requirements would be nearly impossible for anyone. I don't think Apple or Microsoft or Google or pretty much anybody could do it either.
*cough* Safari *cough*
I guess in fairness I should add Chrome, Firefox, Opera, etc. Those apps are far more complex than Flash - and almost certainly some of them do not have the amount of resources that Adobe can afford.
Well, they still aren't ready for Mac OS and they aren't even close to ready for Linux, so it's not really surprising that they aren't ready for mobile, and they never will be ready.
It's so odd that would make a "250M devices claim by the END of 2012" claim.
First of all, the world will end by then. Second, that gives them over 2.5 years to get their act together. I have no doubt they will be shipping Flash on all the major Mobile OSes sans iOS, but that is a long time for users to go without Flash and a long time for open standards to make inroads.
How long until the newly released EVO 4G and other Android phones get v2.2? Apparently the Moto Droid won't get Flash because it has a WVGA display thus requiring an 800MHz Cortex-A8 or better, according to Adobe's specifications sheet.
For comparison, 2.5 years ago was December 2007...
We only on the EDGE iPhone.
I think it was only being sold in a total of 5 countries.
Mozilla was still on Firefox 2.0.0.11.
Chrome was still a year away from having the first stable Beta release on Windows only.
Safari 3.0.4 was out, had only been released on Windows for a few months as a Beta with the firs stable Windows version to be released in March 2008.
The Google created Open Handset Alliance consortium had just been established, but it was still almost a year later before the first Android phone, the T-Mobile G1(?), was hitting the shelves.
Apple was still being laughed at pundits and CEOSs that the iPhone's initial success and then lowering of the price was proof that it was a flash in the pan and that the industry was shaken up by its effort.
A lot has changed in 2.5 years. I have to imagine things will change even more rapidly in the next.
Steve has said before that they asked Adobe to show them an acceptable version of Flash to run on the iPhone, and Adobe was not able to do it. Some people choose to not believe this, because it supports their assertion that Apple is being completely unreasonable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
thanks that answers that question. So apparently Adobe showed them something,
No one is attempting to change the subject. You are attempting to make the subject about delivery of video and nothing else, and in the process you are entirely missing the point of Groovetube's arguments. I suggest you go back and read his posts over and over until you get it. Flash is not just about video delivery, in fact it is only relatively recently in the context of its lifetime that Flash has been able to deliver video.
For all the things that Flash does apart from video, there is (sadly) currently no big exodus from Flash. If a small business goes to a web-developing-house to buy a website, you can bet that 90% of the time they'll be given a website that uses Flash, along with all the usability problems highlighted in my post I linked to earlier.
thanks for the help. These discussions tend to go totally around in circles, I end up looking like I'm only defending adobe, which isn't my real intention, it's really to talk rationally about this. There's pros and cons to either techs and viewpoints, I think it's more useful to recognize them honestly.
The truth is, the development platform is what I like most (not the plugin, gah...) and it's hard to get that across in all this. It'll be interesting to see what happens on that front.
Very good point. Adobe is taking way too long, the industry is not going to sit around waiting.
what exactly, is the... "industry" gonna do though?
Adobe is indeed taking their time. My theory is they need more power on a phone to make the player run better. 1 GHz is the entry level for them perhaps. My feeling is, we won't know if flash is going to really die, until about a year from now. Maybe a bit sooner perhaps.
what exactly, is the... "industry" gonna do though?.
They're going to do exactly what they've been doing for the past 6 months - creating web sites and apps that don't rely on Flash.
Maybe you missed the announcements about Youtube, Hulu, Disney, CBS, NYTimes, and Farmville? And the web sites from automakers which now run on iPhones? Have you really missed all those announcements?
Face it - the industry is rapidly leaving Flash behind.
what exactly, is the... "industry" gonna do though?
Adobe is indeed taking their time. My theory is they need more power on a phone to make the player run better. 1 GHz is the entry level for them perhaps. My feeling is, we won't know if flash is going to really die, until about a year from now. Maybe a bit sooner perhaps.
Industry is a blanket term for the way companies can connect with users via the internet. That should be self evident.
I expect every mobile OS except the iOS to be shipping with Flash by their "end of 2012" date. I expect every new Android phone being released in the latter half of this year onward to be shipping with Flash.
The problem for Adobe ? as seen many times over in this still nascent "industry" ? is that being shipped with doesn't mean being used. HTML5's Canvas element is a prime example of this in modern browsers. it's just too inefficient to be useful at this time. On top of that it doesn't have a proper development platform for it, but that is another issue.
On the flip side, other aspects of HTML, CSS, JS and native apps are efficient and effective options for users over Flash. I still have yet to see a Flash demo on an Android phone be valuable enough to the average user to warrant the browser/system slowdown and power drain associated with it.
Q: How did Adobe tackle the input issue with Flash app? They have the user tap and hold in the Flash window to switch access to Flash, but what about all those Flash games people are clamouring for that require the keyboard and/or mouse pointer to navigate? Does that require retooling from the developer or have they made Flash 10.1 clever enough that they account for these with on-screen buttons as layovers, for example?
Plus, gotApple has either ignorantly overlooked or was just being sleazy about Flash game numbers by ignoring all the native app games and the fact that Adobe had to rewrite Flash, not just to be more efficient, but to even work on a touch-based phone.
Native iOS apps work only on iOS devices. Their number is quite limited. And always controlled by one company. Flash games on the other hand, they work on OSX, Windows, Linux, Android 2.2, and next perhaps on your TV. Just to name some of the platforms that support Flash... Adobe even gives away it's open source Flex/Flash SDK for free.
It must suck to be a loyal follower of iSteve, especially now when Flash isn't going away if iSteve puts carrots into his ears and pretends that Flash is dying.
They're going to do exactly what they've been doing for the past 6 months - creating web sites and apps that don't rely on Flash.
Maybe you missed the announcements about Youtube, Hulu, Disney, CBS, NYTimes, and Farmville? And the web sites from automakers which now run on iPhones? Have you really missed all those announcements?
Face it - the industry is rapidly leaving Flash behind.
Now that's a joke. Because some companies make versions of their games/apps/systems for iPhone doesn't mean they are abandoning the 95% of their markets and support only iPhone. The world will continue to use Flash for a long time. Now much Apple has foothold in China? None. Zero. Nothing. How many PCs are there in China? A lot. They can all play Flash...
Ah no because one of the links in the "10 games" collection is actually for a collection therefore the total is roughly 16.
That being said though there are far more and the best thing is that you can also download the source code much easier than for a Flash game.
So do you think people & companies will make many games for HTML5 if everybody can rip their source code and assets in three seconds? Where's the business model? It's like comparing the number of open source games written for Linux with the number of closed source games written for Windows.
Now that's a joke. Because some companies make versions of their games/apps/systems for iPhone doesn't mean they are abandoning the 95% of their markets and support only iPhone. The world will continue to use Flash for a long time. Now much Apple has foothold in China? None. Zero. Nothing. How many PCs are there in China? A lot. They can all play Flash...
Nobody ever said otherwise.
However, Flash for mobile is essentially nonexistent (the 0.2% of smart phones running Android 2.2 and with enough power to run Flash - badly - can be ignored).
The same as what always happens, the industry will innovate and move on. There are numerous technologies that were once dominant-stagnated-and were left behind. Its a lot easier to replace Flash than replace floppy drives.
I'm not saying Flash is going to die. I've said quite the opposite that it will go on for quite some time. It simply will not continue to have the dominating presence it has had in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
what exactly, is the... "industry" gonna do though?
Adobe is indeed taking their time. My theory is they need more power on a phone to make the player run better. 1 GHz is the entry level for them perhaps. My feeling is, we won't know if flash is going to really die, until about a year from now. Maybe a bit sooner perhaps.
Industry is a blanket term for the way companies can connect with users via the internet. That should be self evident.
I expect every mobile OS except the iOS to be shipping with Flash by their "end of 2012" date. I expect every new Android phone being released in the latter half of this year onward to be shipping with Flash.
The problem for Adobe ? as seen many times over in this still nascent "industry" ? is that being shipped with doesn't mean being used. HTML5's Canvas element is a prime example of this in modern browsers. it's just too inefficient to be useful at this time. On top of that it doesn't have a proper development platform for it, but that is another issue.
On the flip side, other aspects of HTML, CSS, JS and native apps are efficient and effective options for users over Flash. I still have yet to see a Flash demo on an Android phone be valuable enough to the average user to warrant the browser/system slowdown and power drain associated with it.
Q: How did Adobe tackle the input issue with Flash app? They have the user tap and hold in the Flash window to switch access to Flash, but what about all those Flash games people are clamouring for that require the keyboard and/or mouse pointer to navigate? Does that require retooling from the developer or have they made Flash 10.1 clever enough that they account for these with on-screen buttons as layovers, for example?
When it comes to a mobile phone, the little screen, I'm not sold on how great flash is there. Not until I see it in action a whole lot more. However, you might be discounting, the development platform. Also, when it comes to iPad like devices, that's where flash may be, a whole more useful, and css/JS just doesn't do all flash does.
This all assumes too flash will be as it is now, for mobile. I think it has to evolve. jmo.
I guess in fairness I should add Chrome, Firefox, Opera, etc. Those apps are far more complex than Flash - and almost certainly some of them do not have the amount of resources that Adobe can afford.
Well, Firefox I would really only consider a native app on Windows, and I don't use Chrome or Opera on any platform (well, ok, I sometimes use Chrome on a "test" laptop at work, but only to verify that stuff already tested in Firefox and Safari works ok) so I can't really speak to how well they are implemented across platforms. Safari isn't really a fully native app on Windows, and I don't count the iOS versions as really distinct platforms from Mac OS. But, that being said, Mozilla, at least, has certainly done a better job of supporting Windows, Mac OS and Linux than Adobe has with Flash.
Well, Firefox I would really only consider a native app on Windows, and I don't use Chrome or Opera on any platform (well, ok, I sometimes use Chrome on a "test" laptop at work, but only to verify that stuff already tested in Firefox and Safari works ok) so I can't really speak to how well they are implemented across platforms. Safari isn't really a fully native app on Windows, and I don't count the iOS versions as really distinct platforms from Mac OS. But, that being said, Mozilla, at least, has certainly done a better job of supporting Windows, Mac OS and Linux than Adobe has with Flash.
They're going to do exactly what they've been doing for the past 6 months - creating web sites and apps that don't rely on Flash.
Maybe you missed the announcements about Youtube, Hulu, Disney, CBS, NYTimes, and Farmville? And the web sites from automakers which now run on iPhones? Have you really missed all those announcements?
Face it - the industry is rapidly leaving Flash behind.
you just love talking, and talking, and talking.
I haven't missed anything. But I tend to see the bigger picture a little better it seems.
The "industry", which I work in, is still creating flash sites as fast and as many as a year ago. The er, "industry", is also creating lots of non flash sites.
yawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
The same as what always happens, the industry will innovate and move on. There are numerous technologies that were once dominant-stagnated-and were left behind. Its a lot easier to replace Flash than replace floppy drives.
I'm not saying Flash is going to die. I've said quite the opposite that it will go on for quite some time. It simply will not continue to have the dominating presence it has had in the past.
I agree. Though, for floppy drives, I thought they were kinda pretty dead by the time Steve Jobs called quits on them. It was a pretty safe bet.
Flash. Hmmm. Well, it ain't gonna happen very quickly if it -did- die. But I as I said before, I see some real shifts coming in that regard.
Of course, no one ever claimed that. What he implied was that a full-blown browser is more complex than Flash - which is a true statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
you just love talking, and talking, and talking.
I haven't missed anything. But I tend to see the bigger picture a little better it seems.
The "industry", which I work in, is still creating flash sites as fast and as many as a year ago. The er, "industry", is also creating lots of non flash sites.
yawn.
Oxygen deprivation?
4 months ago, you and your ilk were insisting that Apple was wrong and that Flash was essential for the Internet - and that no mobile device would survive without Flash. You cited a bunch of examples like Farmville, Youtube, Hulu, car dealers, Disney, and so on.
Since then, most of those sites have either released or announced a way for iPhone users to access their sites.
Lacking the integrity to admit that you were wrong, you dance around like a bunch of Microsoft weenies at a store opening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
I agree. Though, for floppy drives, I thought they were kinda pretty dead by the time Steve Jobs called quits on them. It was a pretty safe bet.
Really? Then would you like to explain why every single other computer being sold at the time had floppy drives if floppies were already dead?
Just more of your inane revisionism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
Flash. Hmmm. Well, it ain't gonna happen very quickly if it -did- die. But I as I said before, I see some real shifts coming in that regard.
Well, gee - the first sign of your approaching the real world.
Of course, no one ever claimed that. What he implied was that a full-blown browser is more complex than Flash - which is a true statement.
Oxygen deprivation?
4 months ago, you and your ilk were insisting that Apple was wrong and that Flash was essential for the Internet - and that no mobile device would survive without Flash. You cited a bunch of examples like Farmville, Youtube, Hulu, car dealers, Disney, and so on.
Since then, most of those sites have either released or announced a way for iPhone users to access their sites.
Lacking the integrity to admit that you were wrong, you dance around like a bunch of Microsoft weenies at a store opening.
Really? Then would you like to explain why every single other computer being sold at the time had floppy drives if floppies were already dead?
Just more of your inane revisionism.
Well, gee - the first sign of your approaching the real world.
no it isn't. How asinine can a statement get... Try learning something about the development platform before mouthing off. When a browser has fully developed a mature powerful language on it's own completely, let me know. But what has that got to do with anything really? Nothing. Right.
4 months ago, I wasn't here. Mouthing off again.
many computers had floppies, but most people were no longer using them. Steve Jobs simply recognized the obvious.
You seem to have an inherent problem with conversation. Calm down.
4 months ago, you and your ilk were insisting that Apple was wrong and that Flash was essential for the Internet - and that no mobile device would survive without Flash. You cited a bunch of examples like Farmville, Youtube, Hulu, car dealers, Disney, and so on.
Look, you've made this "point" several times. No need to repeat yourself over and over. All you're doing is demonstrating an inability or unwillingness to understand what people are telling you.
Do you develop websites for a living? Or are you otherwise involved in the web developer community?
Just because 10 websites which used Flash now have non-flash alternatives, doesn't mean Groovetube's arguments are wrong.
As I said before, you are demonstrating an awesome lack of understanding as to how big the world wide web is. 10 websites is nothing. As mstone said earlier:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
The companies that have financial resources to rewrite all of their code to accommodate 1% on the market are probably banking on earning it back by selling stuff to the affluent iPhone user demographic. The average small company that simply needs a web presence will not see the need to spend that much money on such a small minority.
Comments
Well, they still aren't ready for Mac OS and they aren't even close to ready for Linux, so it's not really surprising that they aren't ready for mobile, and they never will be ready. In one sense, we should be fair to Adobe and acknowledge that supporting a complex piece of software on 3 platforms is a difficult task, and supporting it on, several new platforms with completely new requirements would be nearly impossible for anyone. I don't think Apple or Microsoft or Google or pretty much anybody could do it either.
*cough* Safari *cough*
I guess in fairness I should add Chrome, Firefox, Opera, etc. Those apps are far more complex than Flash - and almost certainly some of them do not have the amount of resources that Adobe can afford.
Well, they still aren't ready for Mac OS and they aren't even close to ready for Linux, so it's not really surprising that they aren't ready for mobile, and they never will be ready.
It's so odd that would make a "250M devices claim by the END of 2012" claim.
First of all, the world will end by then.
How long until the newly released EVO 4G and other Android phones get v2.2? Apparently the Moto Droid won't get Flash because it has a WVGA display thus requiring an 800MHz Cortex-A8 or better, according to Adobe's specifications sheet.
For comparison, 2.5 years ago was December 2007...
- We only on the EDGE iPhone.
- I think it was only being sold in a total of 5 countries.
- Mozilla was still on Firefox 2.0.0.11.
- Chrome was still a year away from having the first stable Beta release on Windows only.
- Safari 3.0.4 was out, had only been released on Windows for a few months as a Beta with the firs stable Windows version to be released in March 2008.
- The Google created Open Handset Alliance consortium had just been established, but it was still almost a year later before the first Android phone, the T-Mobile G1(?), was hitting the shelves.
- Apple was still being laughed at pundits and CEOSs that the iPhone's initial success and then lowering of the price was proof that it was a flash in the pan and that the industry was shaken up by its effort.
A lot has changed in 2.5 years. I have to imagine things will change even more rapidly in the next.thanks that answers that question. So apparently Adobe showed them something,
It's so odd that would make a "250M devices claim by the END of 2012" claim.
For comparison, 2.5 years ago was December 2007...
A lot has changed in 2.5 years. I have to imagine things will change even more rapidly in the next.
No one is attempting to change the subject. You are attempting to make the subject about delivery of video and nothing else, and in the process you are entirely missing the point of Groovetube's arguments. I suggest you go back and read his posts over and over until you get it. Flash is not just about video delivery, in fact it is only relatively recently in the context of its lifetime that Flash has been able to deliver video.
For all the things that Flash does apart from video, there is (sadly) currently no big exodus from Flash. If a small business goes to a web-developing-house to buy a website, you can bet that 90% of the time they'll be given a website that uses Flash, along with all the usability problems highlighted in my post I linked to earlier.
thanks for the help. These discussions tend to go totally around in circles, I end up looking like I'm only defending adobe, which isn't my real intention, it's really to talk rationally about this. There's pros and cons to either techs and viewpoints, I think it's more useful to recognize them honestly.
The truth is, the development platform is what I like most (not the plugin, gah...) and it's hard to get that across in all this. It'll be interesting to see what happens on that front.
Very good point. Adobe is taking way too long, the industry is not going to sit around waiting.
what exactly, is the... "industry" gonna do though?
Adobe is indeed taking their time. My theory is they need more power on a phone to make the player run better. 1 GHz is the entry level for them perhaps. My feeling is, we won't know if flash is going to really die, until about a year from now. Maybe a bit sooner perhaps.
what exactly, is the... "industry" gonna do though?.
They're going to do exactly what they've been doing for the past 6 months - creating web sites and apps that don't rely on Flash.
Maybe you missed the announcements about Youtube, Hulu, Disney, CBS, NYTimes, and Farmville? And the web sites from automakers which now run on iPhones? Have you really missed all those announcements?
Face it - the industry is rapidly leaving Flash behind.
what exactly, is the... "industry" gonna do though?
Adobe is indeed taking their time. My theory is they need more power on a phone to make the player run better. 1 GHz is the entry level for them perhaps. My feeling is, we won't know if flash is going to really die, until about a year from now. Maybe a bit sooner perhaps.
Industry is a blanket term for the way companies can connect with users via the internet. That should be self evident.
I expect every mobile OS except the iOS to be shipping with Flash by their "end of 2012" date. I expect every new Android phone being released in the latter half of this year onward to be shipping with Flash.
The problem for Adobe ? as seen many times over in this still nascent "industry" ? is that being shipped with doesn't mean being used. HTML5's Canvas element is a prime example of this in modern browsers. it's just too inefficient to be useful at this time. On top of that it doesn't have a proper development platform for it, but that is another issue.
On the flip side, other aspects of HTML, CSS, JS and native apps are efficient and effective options for users over Flash. I still have yet to see a Flash demo on an Android phone be valuable enough to the average user to warrant the browser/system slowdown and power drain associated with it.
Q: How did Adobe tackle the input issue with Flash app? They have the user tap and hold in the Flash window to switch access to Flash, but what about all those Flash games people are clamouring for that require the keyboard and/or mouse pointer to navigate? Does that require retooling from the developer or have they made Flash 10.1 clever enough that they account for these with on-screen buttons as layovers, for example?
Plus, gotApple has either ignorantly overlooked or was just being sleazy about Flash game numbers by ignoring all the native app games and the fact that Adobe had to rewrite Flash, not just to be more efficient, but to even work on a touch-based phone.
Native iOS apps work only on iOS devices. Their number is quite limited. And always controlled by one company. Flash games on the other hand, they work on OSX, Windows, Linux, Android 2.2, and next perhaps on your TV. Just to name some of the platforms that support Flash... Adobe even gives away it's open source Flex/Flash SDK for free.
It must suck to be a loyal follower of iSteve, especially now when Flash isn't going away if iSteve puts carrots into his ears and pretends that Flash is dying.
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...kes-mac-os.ars
OSX market share 5.1%. iSteve's opinnion doesn't count that much here. Sorry boys.
Hey, I have iPhone 3G and 3GS, iPod Touch and new 2010 MacBookPro 15". But still I'm not blind and deaf.
They're going to do exactly what they've been doing for the past 6 months - creating web sites and apps that don't rely on Flash.
Maybe you missed the announcements about Youtube, Hulu, Disney, CBS, NYTimes, and Farmville? And the web sites from automakers which now run on iPhones? Have you really missed all those announcements?
Face it - the industry is rapidly leaving Flash behind.
Now that's a joke. Because some companies make versions of their games/apps/systems for iPhone doesn't mean they are abandoning the 95% of their markets and support only iPhone. The world will continue to use Flash for a long time. Now much Apple has foothold in China? None. Zero. Nothing. How many PCs are there in China? A lot. They can all play Flash...
Ah no because one of the links in the "10 games" collection is actually for a collection therefore the total is roughly 16.
That being said though there are far more and the best thing is that you can also download the source code much easier than for a Flash game.
So do you think people & companies will make many games for HTML5 if everybody can rip their source code and assets in three seconds?
Now that's a joke. Because some companies make versions of their games/apps/systems for iPhone doesn't mean they are abandoning the 95% of their markets and support only iPhone. The world will continue to use Flash for a long time. Now much Apple has foothold in China? None. Zero. Nothing. How many PCs are there in China? A lot. They can all play Flash...
Nobody ever said otherwise.
However, Flash for mobile is essentially nonexistent (the 0.2% of smart phones running Android 2.2 and with enough power to run Flash - badly - can be ignored).
I'm not saying Flash is going to die. I've said quite the opposite that it will go on for quite some time. It simply will not continue to have the dominating presence it has had in the past.
what exactly, is the... "industry" gonna do though?
Adobe is indeed taking their time. My theory is they need more power on a phone to make the player run better. 1 GHz is the entry level for them perhaps. My feeling is, we won't know if flash is going to really die, until about a year from now. Maybe a bit sooner perhaps.
Industry is a blanket term for the way companies can connect with users via the internet. That should be self evident.
I expect every mobile OS except the iOS to be shipping with Flash by their "end of 2012" date. I expect every new Android phone being released in the latter half of this year onward to be shipping with Flash.
The problem for Adobe ? as seen many times over in this still nascent "industry" ? is that being shipped with doesn't mean being used. HTML5's Canvas element is a prime example of this in modern browsers. it's just too inefficient to be useful at this time. On top of that it doesn't have a proper development platform for it, but that is another issue.
On the flip side, other aspects of HTML, CSS, JS and native apps are efficient and effective options for users over Flash. I still have yet to see a Flash demo on an Android phone be valuable enough to the average user to warrant the browser/system slowdown and power drain associated with it.
Q: How did Adobe tackle the input issue with Flash app? They have the user tap and hold in the Flash window to switch access to Flash, but what about all those Flash games people are clamouring for that require the keyboard and/or mouse pointer to navigate? Does that require retooling from the developer or have they made Flash 10.1 clever enough that they account for these with on-screen buttons as layovers, for example?
When it comes to a mobile phone, the little screen, I'm not sold on how great flash is there. Not until I see it in action a whole lot more. However, you might be discounting, the development platform. Also, when it comes to iPad like devices, that's where flash may be, a whole more useful, and css/JS just doesn't do all flash does.
This all assumes too flash will be as it is now, for mobile. I think it has to evolve. jmo.
*cough* Safari *cough*
I guess in fairness I should add Chrome, Firefox, Opera, etc. Those apps are far more complex than Flash - and almost certainly some of them do not have the amount of resources that Adobe can afford.
Well, Firefox I would really only consider a native app on Windows, and I don't use Chrome or Opera on any platform (well, ok, I sometimes use Chrome on a "test" laptop at work, but only to verify that stuff already tested in Firefox and Safari works ok) so I can't really speak to how well they are implemented across platforms. Safari isn't really a fully native app on Windows, and I don't count the iOS versions as really distinct platforms from Mac OS. But, that being said, Mozilla, at least, has certainly done a better job of supporting Windows, Mac OS and Linux than Adobe has with Flash.
Well, Firefox I would really only consider a native app on Windows, and I don't use Chrome or Opera on any platform (well, ok, I sometimes use Chrome on a "test" laptop at work, but only to verify that stuff already tested in Firefox and Safari works ok) so I can't really speak to how well they are implemented across platforms. Safari isn't really a fully native app on Windows, and I don't count the iOS versions as really distinct platforms from Mac OS. But, that being said, Mozilla, at least, has certainly done a better job of supporting Windows, Mac OS and Linux than Adobe has with Flash.
a browser is far more complex than the CS5 suite?
riiiiight.
They're going to do exactly what they've been doing for the past 6 months - creating web sites and apps that don't rely on Flash.
Maybe you missed the announcements about Youtube, Hulu, Disney, CBS, NYTimes, and Farmville? And the web sites from automakers which now run on iPhones? Have you really missed all those announcements?
Face it - the industry is rapidly leaving Flash behind.
you just love talking, and talking, and talking.
I haven't missed anything. But I tend to see the bigger picture a little better it seems.
The "industry", which I work in, is still creating flash sites as fast and as many as a year ago. The er, "industry", is also creating lots of non flash sites.
yawn.
The same as what always happens, the industry will innovate and move on. There are numerous technologies that were once dominant-stagnated-and were left behind. Its a lot easier to replace Flash than replace floppy drives.
I'm not saying Flash is going to die. I've said quite the opposite that it will go on for quite some time. It simply will not continue to have the dominating presence it has had in the past.
I agree. Though, for floppy drives, I thought they were kinda pretty dead by the time Steve Jobs called quits on them. It was a pretty safe bet.
Flash. Hmmm. Well, it ain't gonna happen very quickly if it -did- die. But I as I said before, I see some real shifts coming in that regard.
a browser is far more complex than the CS5 suite?
riiiiight.
Of course, no one ever claimed that. What he implied was that a full-blown browser is more complex than Flash - which is a true statement.
you just love talking, and talking, and talking.
I haven't missed anything. But I tend to see the bigger picture a little better it seems.
The "industry", which I work in, is still creating flash sites as fast and as many as a year ago. The er, "industry", is also creating lots of non flash sites.
yawn.
Oxygen deprivation?
4 months ago, you and your ilk were insisting that Apple was wrong and that Flash was essential for the Internet - and that no mobile device would survive without Flash. You cited a bunch of examples like Farmville, Youtube, Hulu, car dealers, Disney, and so on.
Since then, most of those sites have either released or announced a way for iPhone users to access their sites.
Lacking the integrity to admit that you were wrong, you dance around like a bunch of Microsoft weenies at a store opening.
I agree. Though, for floppy drives, I thought they were kinda pretty dead by the time Steve Jobs called quits on them. It was a pretty safe bet.
Really? Then would you like to explain why every single other computer being sold at the time had floppy drives if floppies were already dead?
Just more of your inane revisionism.
Flash. Hmmm. Well, it ain't gonna happen very quickly if it -did- die. But I as I said before, I see some real shifts coming in that regard.
Well, gee - the first sign of your approaching the real world.
Of course, no one ever claimed that. What he implied was that a full-blown browser is more complex than Flash - which is a true statement.
Oxygen deprivation?
4 months ago, you and your ilk were insisting that Apple was wrong and that Flash was essential for the Internet - and that no mobile device would survive without Flash. You cited a bunch of examples like Farmville, Youtube, Hulu, car dealers, Disney, and so on.
Since then, most of those sites have either released or announced a way for iPhone users to access their sites.
Lacking the integrity to admit that you were wrong, you dance around like a bunch of Microsoft weenies at a store opening.
Really? Then would you like to explain why every single other computer being sold at the time had floppy drives if floppies were already dead?
Just more of your inane revisionism.
Well, gee - the first sign of your approaching the real world.
no it isn't. How asinine can a statement get... Try learning something about the development platform before mouthing off. When a browser has fully developed a mature powerful language on it's own completely, let me know. But what has that got to do with anything really? Nothing. Right.
4 months ago, I wasn't here. Mouthing off again.
many computers had floppies, but most people were no longer using them. Steve Jobs simply recognized the obvious.
You seem to have an inherent problem with conversation. Calm down.
4 months ago, you and your ilk were insisting that Apple was wrong and that Flash was essential for the Internet - and that no mobile device would survive without Flash. You cited a bunch of examples like Farmville, Youtube, Hulu, car dealers, Disney, and so on.
Look, you've made this "point" several times. No need to repeat yourself over and over. All you're doing is demonstrating an inability or unwillingness to understand what people are telling you.
Do you develop websites for a living? Or are you otherwise involved in the web developer community?
Just because 10 websites which used Flash now have non-flash alternatives, doesn't mean Groovetube's arguments are wrong.
As I said before, you are demonstrating an awesome lack of understanding as to how big the world wide web is. 10 websites is nothing. As mstone said earlier:
The companies that have financial resources to rewrite all of their code to accommodate 1% on the market are probably banking on earning it back by selling stuff to the affluent iPhone user demographic. The average small company that simply needs a web presence will not see the need to spend that much money on such a small minority.