Inside Apple's new Xcode 4 development tool

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 95
    joe hsjoe hs Posts: 488member
    do apple use Xcode to write their own apps? (OS X, iOS, Windows)
  • Reply 22 of 95
    danielswdanielsw Posts: 906member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    I've been working on an app for a whole year+! Over a year! Am I just stupid or is this stuff difficult... (don't answer that!)



    Could be. But stupidity is chronic only as long as you don't discover the simple parts you thought you knew but didn't. It only SEEMS difficult as long as there are one or more of those undiscovered (on your part) concepts you don't fully understand.
  • Reply 23 of 95
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,031member
    Is there a bit missing in the article about how it relates to end users? Interesting article nonetheless.
  • Reply 24 of 95
    tawilsontawilson Posts: 484member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aucl View Post


    Even in the current released version there is a "all in one" mode.



    No there is not. Xcode has a single window view for itself, but that doesn't to the totally separate "Interface Builder".
  • Reply 25 of 95
    tawilsontawilson Posts: 484member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Synotic View Post


    Time Machine is based on Subversion? Is there any source for this? I checked Google and the only thing I could find was some guy in 2006 speculating that it uses Subversion.



    Don't worry, this is NOT the case. Seeing as subversion is really for dealing with plain-text.
  • Reply 26 of 95
    tawilsontawilson Posts: 484member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djsherly View Post


    Is there a bit missing in the article about how it relates to end users? Interesting article nonetheless.



    Seeing as how the "end users" of Xcode are going to be developers it relates entirely to them.
  • Reply 27 of 95
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,789member
    First, I've always used the all-in-one view. Not all that new.

    IB built into Xcode? Well it's about damn time it was rolled in.

    Never liked the old instruments, so any change is for the better IMHO.

    I use Subversion now and it works transparently and perfectly.



    I can't wait to try it out, but not until I've done the next release...
  • Reply 28 of 95
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    As iOS is somewhat related to development on the iPhone family of devices. I thought this article about it might be of interest:



    http://www.tipb.com/2010/06/14/ios-4-walkthrough/



    Superb link. Thanks.
  • Reply 29 of 95
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,031member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tawilson View Post


    Seeing as how the "end users" of Xcode are going to be developers it relates entirely to them.



    Ah, silly me. Here I was thinking the end-user was the chump who buys the apps.
  • Reply 30 of 95
    Will there finally be support for python scripts and debugging in xcode?
  • Reply 31 of 95
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djsherly View Post


    Ah, silly me. Here I was thinking the end-user was the chump who buys the apps.



    I'm not sure if your comment is sincere, but the end user for a product relates to those who are its customers, not how the product can produce other products for other customers.
  • Reply 32 of 95
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,031member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm not sure if your comment is sincere, but the end user for a product relates to those who are its customers, not how the product can produce other products for other customers.



    No. I was being sincere. As a developer I just had stuck in my mindset my own end-users. I don't think it's a stretch to interpret the opening paragraph in such a way.
  • Reply 33 of 95
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djsherly View Post


    No. I was being sincere. As a developer I just had stuck in my mindset my own end-users. I don't think it's a stretch to interpret the opening paragraph in such a way.



    Yeah, it's technically accurate, but I think changing "end users" to "developers" would make it more clear.
  • Reply 34 of 95
    columbuscolumbus Posts: 282member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by leafy View Post


    Any GUI editor in Eclipse can do that in a split-pane like view, it's not new at all.



    They are doing something slightly different in Xcode 4, it looks like a traditional split pane view, but doesn't behave like one. Anyway, watch the videos.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post


    do apple use Xcode to write their own apps? (OS X, iOS, Windows)



    Yes for OS X and iOS (and they have done for years and years). No idea about Windows dev.
  • Reply 35 of 95
    Xcode 4 is a HUGE update and has probably been long in development. Yes, everything has been unified into a single window, but it looks like Apple has really put key focus on navigating your project files and getting the info you need as easily as possible or automatically. I really can't wait to get my hands on it!



    According to one of the developer videos LLVM compiled code executes significantly faster than GCC so for the person who asked, Xcode 4 highlighting, code completion, etc is all run by LLVM.
  • Reply 36 of 95
    dominoxmldominoxml Posts: 110member
    I'm not sure if these lines conflict with the NDA and I don't have much first hand experience yet.



    Here my first impressions.



    RAD is a double-edged sword. You are fast in initially creating major parts of our project, but you often have to spend much more time in refining it and eliminating bugs or performance issues. So RAD mainly addresses the initial project phases while pointing you to other mechanisms and tools when leaving the draft-phase.



    Of course there are some welcome RAD features that help to create, edit, modify and review your code, but the biggest difference is that all code serves as "knowledge", as base for the following project-phases.



    For every phase there is an optimized integration of tools for debugging, unit testing, performance and memory optimization (leaks), revision control, deployment etc. managed by seamless workflow integration.



    This reminds me of best-practice phase based rapid prototyping in the automotive industry.



    So it's not just better code-completion. The LLVM compiler and LLDB debugger are integrated in the process and are providing their information.

    Because the compiler knows what is allocated, code-completion can not only suggest what's possible but that what's useful. If the object You want to use doesn't show up, you haven't implemented it properly.



    Because the compiler knows what's going on and "telling" it to the debugger and other tools you get much more detailed information e.g. about the behavior of parallel threads, memory consumption etc.



    I think the additional tools can do a much better and better integrated job while the new IDE provides a "live" code and project state, pointing to known problems and providing the tools in place to resolve them.



    Coming from other IDE's I welcome the adjustments on XCode 4.

    I don't think it's so much about replicating others features but those features are the result of a new approach on optimization the complete development, production and deployment cycles while LLVM representing the foundation.
  • Reply 37 of 95
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JustReelFilms View Post


    I'm currently watching the dev videos.



    Where are the videos located?
  • Reply 38 of 95
    foljsfoljs Posts: 390member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    I've been working on an app for a whole year+! Over a year! Am I just stupid or is this stuff difficult... (don't answer that!)



    Probably neither.



    You just aren't experienced with programming (or with that kind of programming).



    You can make simple fart apps in a day (or a couple or hours) and you can make a full-featured but limited in scope app in half a year (say, a twitter client like Twitterific).



    But there are also complicated apps that require many man-years (that is, a team of programmers) to complete. E.g. you can't just make a full-blown 3D game to compete with EA by yourself (except if you are John Carmack).
  • Reply 39 of 95
    foljsfoljs Posts: 390member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    The code editor in XCode has always been fine, except that autocomplete doesn't work like you'd expect (hint: Bash, Eclipse and Visual Studio all use TAB).



    Hint: no, it's not the keybinding for the autocomplete.



    It's the selection, presentation and ordering or possible completions that lacks in XCode.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    The confusing part has always been the build system. It doesn't use the standard concepts/terminology. For example it refers to a build script as a "target." Which is a little too nouny for a processy thing.



    Builds have been called "Build targets" since, I dunno, the seventies...



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    And don't get me started on the search and replace. A hundred options no one cares about.



    Oh, trust us, we do.



    So, to recap, your gripes with a full blown IDE are:



    1) does not use the keybinding you'd like for autocompletion.



    2) Calls "builds" "targets".



    3) Too many search and replace options.



    4) Ugly preferences Window (ever seen Eclipse or NetBeans preference window?).



    It must be a hell of a great program then, or you judge way too superficially.
  • Reply 40 of 95
    djrumpydjrumpy Posts: 1,116member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post


    Now the XCode editor finally catches up to Visual Studio, Eclipse, and Netbeans. The code completion and debugging was inferior to those IDEs. Now Apple is applying a formula that works, which is the single window view of the other IDEs.



    Still, they managed to also come up with at least one brand-new idea. The code and GUI side-by-side view is something I haven't seen, but is a fantastic idea.



    Not new at all. The Lotus Designer tool has this type of interface, and has for years. It's a very intuitive interface in a three pane view, with app events and objects in the left, the GUI in the top right pane, and the code in the bottom right. I'm VERY happy that they've done this. I was having a very hard time adapting to XCode as everything I seemed to need was somewhere else in the GUI. This is a very welcome change.



    Although I find adapting to C very easy, I'm having a horrible time of it trying to figure out how to link GUI to code, where it was dead simple in the Lotus Designer. Hopefully this will make things easier. I can't stick in a command prompt for my code forever and now that I've branched out, I'm getting lost.
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