At home where I normally have 2-3 bar signal my iPhone 4 drops calls 100% of the time when I hold it in what I consider to be a normal fashion in my left hand with the left lower corner pressed against my palm and my thumb on the volume buttons.
How do you hold it so that you can adjust the volume and type on the keypad without touching the left corner?...
I don't believe this.
You're either making a call, or your not. The worst case scenario is putting a large amount of meat in contact with the cell antenna which causes attenuation, so holding it in your hand as described is the only time when you should see the problem. The kicker is though, that you are indeed "holding it wrong" if you are making a call that way.
It's very very *hard* to hold the phone cupping it that way when you are making a call. The easier more natural way is to only grip the top half of the phone lightly and this is what most people do.
I think most people doing the complaining are mixing up "making a call" with "using the phone (for anything)" and mixing up which antenna is doing what at the time. All those joke posts about "holding it wrong" that show pictures from Apple merchandising are completely misleading in that no one in those pictures is actually making a phone call.
It's mostly only when you make a phone call that you might be using the cell antenna to the degree that this issue would matter at all (dropping the call), and when you do that, you don't hold the phone that way (or at least most normal people don't).
I've been reading about this for days, commenting on forums like this (and others) and talking to dozens of my techie friends daily since the phone came out and at the end of the day, Apple's statement on the matter is the only sensible statement out there.
1) All phone signals attenuate when you place a large piece of meat in close proximity to the handset.
2) When you are in a low signal situation, this attenuation can sometimes cause a call drop.
So ...
3) careful how you hold the phone
4) consider getting a case if you don't like number 3 or live in a bad signal area
That is really interesting. Did you recently get your phone, or is this one of the early ones?
I ask because I was able to cause serious attenuation in the store with just a fingertip, but here you have photographic evidence that you aren't seeing it even when cupping the phone. How long did you hold it that way before you took the picture?
This sort of thing makes me wonder what really is going on here - I wonder if it really does affect only some phones, or id it may actually have to do with differences in electrical conductivity of skin, etc. Very odd.
Thanks for sharing!
Its not odd at all. The picture is of every ******* iPhone 4 in the country...those in places with service enough to make a call. None of them have any **** issue at all, other than being in the unfortunate hands of morons, in sparse service areas, of which there are many.
Even using it to access the Internet, that grip is extremely inconvenient. The way it was held, it's hard to get your finger to the screen. A much more natural hold is to hold the phone farther up on the case.
If I'm using my iPhone 2-handed (one hand to hold, the other to operate) on speaker and/or accessing the internet, that is exactly the way I hold it, naturally, and I think that's the case with a lot, if not most, people.
If I'm using my iPhone 2-handed (one hand to hold, the other to operate) on speaker and/or accessing the internet, that is exactly the way I hold it, naturally, and I think that's the case with a lot, if not most, people.
Everyone that wants to pretend there is no problem or wants to minimize and trivialize the issue knows no one holds it the wrong way. They know they never held it that way, I suppose because they had the presence of mind and foresight to make note of how they held it previously.
Holding a phone becomes almost unconscious, as do small changes in our grasp during the calls. Those people claiming it would be uncomfortable or unlikely to hold it the 'wrong way' are making it up as they go.
PR spin like this happens all the time from companies everywhere. The rhetoric is aimed at appeasing people who don't really know anything, and don't care about details. If you aren't one of the typical target audience you'll find something in the PR release to pick apart and find fault with. You don't like that they were stunned? Personally I think that is probably not far from the truth... i.e. the non-technical types in the PR department are stunned that they are having this issue with their flagship product. To me it is the "totally wrong" part that is nonsense... it isn't totally wrong, and its arguably more sensible than the newly recommended algorithm from AT&T. I don't much care though as the PR release isn't there to try and explain the technical details to me, it exists to tell the un-savvy masses that they are going to change how it works so that they don't see big drops in the bars when they hold it differently.
PR is PR. You're better off ignoring it.
Well said. Unfortunately, things have snowballed to the point where I don't know what Apple can say or do at this point. They are caught in that proverbial "damned if I do and damned if I don't" trap. But it will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the weeks ahead.
Still don't understand why people are all hyped up about Apple needing to issue a recall. Recall are for products that you can't return, like cars where there's no return policy, or products way pass the return period. This problem is well known enough that most if not all buyers should know about it already, and since its still well within 30 day return period, anybody disatisfied should simply return it. No need for Apple to do anything other than waive the restocking fee if it exist.
Really people, this antenna issue is over hyped to the nth degree. Some phone gets better range and some phone gets worse range, it's as normal as there are cars with different mileage. You don't see people clamoring for recalling a car because it gets worse mileage when loaded to capacity, do you?
I don't believe it is only an issue on selected ip4's, because I have been able to duplicate it on every ip4 I've seen here in my office (granted, I've only seen 3 or 4, but all had the problem under identical locations). That seems to indicate that, when tested in similar circumstances, you can probably get every one of them to drop reception, or at least drop downloading speed (which is what annoys me the most - I don't make enough calls to be able to respond definitively on the call-dropping issue).
If it takes a recall for Jobs to retool the assembly line, coating the antenna, or changing its design, then this is how it must be. Call it what you may, but buying a $600 (subsidized) computer, and locking yourself into another 2 years of roughly $100/month is not trivial, when you may be stuck with a model that has little resale value down the road - that is why I returned mine after 3 weeks of constant reception problems. I like the fact that my 3G phone was still highly valued, even after almost 2 years of use, and I was able to get a reasonable $220 resale on ebay (now I had to buy a 3Gs to have an iPhone again, but the 3Gs is even better, and has held its value well. What I don't want to happen is to be stuck after 30 days with this version 1 of iPhone4, which could be labeled as the Edsel of iPhones, and which I may have to virtually give away 2 years hence. Therefore, I took my iP4 back, but will return post haste once version 2 comes out with a viable antenna fix, and confirmed as such (I would imagine that testing labs will be all over this one quickly, so won't have to wait long for a definitive answer).
My contract with ATT is up in September, so I can afford to wait, now that I have gone back to an excellent 3Gs I bought on ebay (cost me a net $50 more to upgrade from my old 3G to this 3Gs, and, even though it cost me some time and energy, I consider it worth the effort, even if my portfolio of Apple stock has taken a hit (I think this will shortly remedy itself, but who knows when?)
Its not odd at all. The picture is of every ******* iPhone 4 in the country...those in places with service enough to make a call. None of them have any **** issue at all, other than being in the unfortunate hands of morons, in sparse service areas, of which there are many.
Friend, you need some mental assistance pretty badly if this issue causes you to get so unhinged that you resort to calling people 'morons' and to throwing around veiled expletives just because someone suggest that there may be a problem with a *phone*. You need to get some perspective.
I live in Irvine, CA - not a sparse service area. I spent some time in an Apple store in the middle of one of the most popular shopping districts in Southern California, the Irvine Spectrum, and I was able to reproduce this issue with a single finger bridging the gap between the two antennas. There IS a problem. It may not impact every user, and it may not impact every handset, but there is certainly an issue. Calling people experiencing that issue morons and throwing around expletives only demonstrates your own lack of insight and character.
BTW, I got up this morning and as I was laying in bed, I grabbed my iPhone and started checking email. I'm right handed, so I held it in my left, and I used my index finger to scroll. And guess what, I noted that the most natural way to do that was with the lower left corner resting in my palm - exactly where the two antennas meet.
Guess that makes me a moron, right?
A long while back I stated that Steve Ballmer was Apple's greatest asset. Why? Because his terrific pride kept him from recognizing the nascent threat that was the iPhone. That was back when win smartphones dominated and Ballmer called the iPhone a joke.
Flash forward to today: you and many other apple fanboys are evidencing the very same kind of hubris and arrogance. You are brutalizing people who have done no wrong other than to publicly acknowledge that they are having a problem with their iPhone. You lash out at them, you verbally abuse them, vilify them, slander them, and for what? What does it get you? A foolish sense of self superiority. Truly sad.
The point to all of this seems simple to me. The more widespread this antenna issue becomes known, the more tarnished the iPhone's reputation will become, and it's difficult to argue that its until-now stellar reputation has not been tarnished.
This is no longer about what % of phones are affected, nor whether or not all phones have the same issue. Somebody earlier in the thread pointed out that perception is oftentimes seen as the reality. That is beyond doubt.
This will have a negative effect on AAPL - how much so depends on whether Apple can regain the goodwill of those who now are reconsidering their iP4 purchase. So far, the upgraders have probably helped mitigate the effects on sales. The real test will be adoption by new customers, and the brouhaha over the antenna may well put a dent in those sales.
Funny how everyone I know with an iPhone 4 has ZERO issues/problems with it. Must be magic air in Japan here.
Well, I did return my iPhone 4 to Apple last week due to the numerous dropped calls and the apparent signal loss when holding the phone against my face.
There was also a problem with the Proximity Sensor, resulting in the touch of my ear to the screen(?) occasionally placing calls on hold and disconnecting from a call.
I miss the 4 and will repurchase if/when this antena problem is properly fixed.
Sigh. I don't know what a response like this is supposed to mean, even as humor. This is the first time in many years that Apple has been faced with a major PR issue. So far, as both an Apple fan and stockholder, I have to say I am unimpressed by they way they are handling it. A combination of silence and denial just is not going to cut it. Shades of Toyota.
Funny that you mentioned it since the latest governemnt report indicates that all but two cases against Toyota were drivers errors - the accelerator pedal was down and the breaks were not engaged. In one of those two "valid" cases the floor mat trapped the gas pedal. Tells you much about the society we live it. Bet, the case against Apple is the same blow up doll.
Funny that you mentioned it since the latest governemnt report indicates that all but two cases against Toyota were drivers errors - the accelerator pedal was down and the breaks were not engaged. In one of those two "valid" cases the floor mat trapped the gas pedal. Tells you much about the society we live it. Bet, the case against Apple is the same blow up doll.
Based on a very preliminary investigation. The analogy is a good one because Toyota was found to have sandbagged complaints, which is what really bit them in the backside. Again the lesson is, it's often not the "crime but the coverup" that causes the damage.
Based on a very preliminary investigation. The analogy is a good one because Toyota was found to have sandbagged complaints, which is what really bit them in the backside. Again the lesson is, it's often not the "crime but the coverup" that causes the damage.
Agree with you here. Excellent analogy. Bunch of lawyers, trolls, and just people that have never owned or even driven a Toyota jumped on that bandwagon
I got my iPhone a week after it launched - and yes, the signal fluctuates, but I haven't had a loss in reception or data speed. The bars drop. Okay. So what? As long as my calls don't get dropped or my data come to a screeching halt, I could give a rat's ass. For me, the biggest annoyance is the proximity sensor - God knows how many calls I've hung up on, or muted, or facetimed, or whatever due to that damn sensor. The antenna is fine - for God's sake, fix the sensor.
But hey, why bother waiting for the facts to come out when there is publicity to be made from kicking Apple when they're (sorta) down. Whatever - numbers don't lie. With billions in the bank and millions of new phones sold, they don't need to sweat ... yet.
The funny thing is that it's mostly non iphone 4 owners that are upset by this antenna issue.
Mostly Android user trolls.
Yeah, all those reports by so-called iPhone users about dropped signals are all fake. All trolls, every one. It's a vast conspiracy, run by Google in cahoots with the space aliens. Yep, that's what it is.
Yeah, all those reports by so-called iPhone users about dropped signals are all fake. All trolls, every one. It's a vast conspiracy, run by Google in cahoots with the space aliens. Yep, that's what it is.
And that is, in fact, what some of these guys think (minus the space aliens... or not). The tin-foil hats are on in abundance.
Comments
At home where I normally have 2-3 bar signal my iPhone 4 drops calls 100% of the time when I hold it in what I consider to be a normal fashion in my left hand with the left lower corner pressed against my palm and my thumb on the volume buttons.
How do you hold it so that you can adjust the volume and type on the keypad without touching the left corner?...
I don't believe this.
You're either making a call, or your not. The worst case scenario is putting a large amount of meat in contact with the cell antenna which causes attenuation, so holding it in your hand as described is the only time when you should see the problem. The kicker is though, that you are indeed "holding it wrong" if you are making a call that way.
It's very very *hard* to hold the phone cupping it that way when you are making a call. The easier more natural way is to only grip the top half of the phone lightly and this is what most people do.
I think most people doing the complaining are mixing up "making a call" with "using the phone (for anything)" and mixing up which antenna is doing what at the time. All those joke posts about "holding it wrong" that show pictures from Apple merchandising are completely misleading in that no one in those pictures is actually making a phone call.
It's mostly only when you make a phone call that you might be using the cell antenna to the degree that this issue would matter at all (dropping the call), and when you do that, you don't hold the phone that way (or at least most normal people don't).
I've been reading about this for days, commenting on forums like this (and others) and talking to dozens of my techie friends daily since the phone came out and at the end of the day, Apple's statement on the matter is the only sensible statement out there.
1) All phone signals attenuate when you place a large piece of meat in close proximity to the handset.
2) When you are in a low signal situation, this attenuation can sometimes cause a call drop.
So ...
3) careful how you hold the phone
4) consider getting a case if you don't like number 3 or live in a bad signal area
That is really interesting. Did you recently get your phone, or is this one of the early ones?
I ask because I was able to cause serious attenuation in the store with just a fingertip, but here you have photographic evidence that you aren't seeing it even when cupping the phone. How long did you hold it that way before you took the picture?
This sort of thing makes me wonder what really is going on here - I wonder if it really does affect only some phones, or id it may actually have to do with differences in electrical conductivity of skin, etc. Very odd.
Thanks for sharing!
Its not odd at all. The picture is of every ******* iPhone 4 in the country...those in places with service enough to make a call. None of them have any **** issue at all, other than being in the unfortunate hands of morons, in sparse service areas, of which there are many.
Even using it to access the Internet, that grip is extremely inconvenient. The way it was held, it's hard to get your finger to the screen. A much more natural hold is to hold the phone farther up on the case.
If I'm using my iPhone 2-handed (one hand to hold, the other to operate) on speaker and/or accessing the internet, that is exactly the way I hold it, naturally, and I think that's the case with a lot, if not most, people.
If I'm using my iPhone 2-handed (one hand to hold, the other to operate) on speaker and/or accessing the internet, that is exactly the way I hold it, naturally, and I think that's the case with a lot, if not most, people.
Everyone that wants to pretend there is no problem or wants to minimize and trivialize the issue knows no one holds it the wrong way. They know they never held it that way, I suppose because they had the presence of mind and foresight to make note of how they held it previously.
Holding a phone becomes almost unconscious, as do small changes in our grasp during the calls. Those people claiming it would be uncomfortable or unlikely to hold it the 'wrong way' are making it up as they go.
PR spin like this happens all the time from companies everywhere. The rhetoric is aimed at appeasing people who don't really know anything, and don't care about details. If you aren't one of the typical target audience you'll find something in the PR release to pick apart and find fault with. You don't like that they were stunned? Personally I think that is probably not far from the truth... i.e. the non-technical types in the PR department are stunned that they are having this issue with their flagship product. To me it is the "totally wrong" part that is nonsense... it isn't totally wrong, and its arguably more sensible than the newly recommended algorithm from AT&T. I don't much care though as the PR release isn't there to try and explain the technical details to me, it exists to tell the un-savvy masses that they are going to change how it works so that they don't see big drops in the bars when they hold it differently.
PR is PR. You're better off ignoring it.
Well said. Unfortunately, things have snowballed to the point where I don't know what Apple can say or do at this point. They are caught in that proverbial "damned if I do and damned if I don't" trap. But it will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the weeks ahead.
Still don't understand why people are all hyped up about Apple needing to issue a recall. Recall are for products that you can't return, like cars where there's no return policy, or products way pass the return period. This problem is well known enough that most if not all buyers should know about it already, and since its still well within 30 day return period, anybody disatisfied should simply return it. No need for Apple to do anything other than waive the restocking fee if it exist.
Really people, this antenna issue is over hyped to the nth degree. Some phone gets better range and some phone gets worse range, it's as normal as there are cars with different mileage. You don't see people clamoring for recalling a car because it gets worse mileage when loaded to capacity, do you?
I don't believe it is only an issue on selected ip4's, because I have been able to duplicate it on every ip4 I've seen here in my office (granted, I've only seen 3 or 4, but all had the problem under identical locations). That seems to indicate that, when tested in similar circumstances, you can probably get every one of them to drop reception, or at least drop downloading speed (which is what annoys me the most - I don't make enough calls to be able to respond definitively on the call-dropping issue).
If it takes a recall for Jobs to retool the assembly line, coating the antenna, or changing its design, then this is how it must be. Call it what you may, but buying a $600 (subsidized) computer, and locking yourself into another 2 years of roughly $100/month is not trivial, when you may be stuck with a model that has little resale value down the road - that is why I returned mine after 3 weeks of constant reception problems. I like the fact that my 3G phone was still highly valued, even after almost 2 years of use, and I was able to get a reasonable $220 resale on ebay (now I had to buy a 3Gs to have an iPhone again, but the 3Gs is even better, and has held its value well. What I don't want to happen is to be stuck after 30 days with this version 1 of iPhone4, which could be labeled as the Edsel of iPhones, and which I may have to virtually give away 2 years hence. Therefore, I took my iP4 back, but will return post haste once version 2 comes out with a viable antenna fix, and confirmed as such (I would imagine that testing labs will be all over this one quickly, so won't have to wait long for a definitive answer).
My contract with ATT is up in September, so I can afford to wait, now that I have gone back to an excellent 3Gs I bought on ebay (cost me a net $50 more to upgrade from my old 3G to this 3Gs, and, even though it cost me some time and energy, I consider it worth the effort, even if my portfolio of Apple stock has taken a hit (I think this will shortly remedy itself, but who knows when?)
Mass hysteria over absolutely nothing. People are idiots. Especially those at Consumer Report.
Get over it. Move on.
Does this sort of arrogance make you feel better somehow?
Does this sort of arrogance make you feel better somehow?
You weren't aware that certain members have the ability to wave their hands and make issues and problems cease to exist?
Its not odd at all. The picture is of every ******* iPhone 4 in the country...those in places with service enough to make a call. None of them have any **** issue at all, other than being in the unfortunate hands of morons, in sparse service areas, of which there are many.
Friend, you need some mental assistance pretty badly if this issue causes you to get so unhinged that you resort to calling people 'morons' and to throwing around veiled expletives just because someone suggest that there may be a problem with a *phone*. You need to get some perspective.
I live in Irvine, CA - not a sparse service area. I spent some time in an Apple store in the middle of one of the most popular shopping districts in Southern California, the Irvine Spectrum, and I was able to reproduce this issue with a single finger bridging the gap between the two antennas. There IS a problem. It may not impact every user, and it may not impact every handset, but there is certainly an issue. Calling people experiencing that issue morons and throwing around expletives only demonstrates your own lack of insight and character.
BTW, I got up this morning and as I was laying in bed, I grabbed my iPhone and started checking email. I'm right handed, so I held it in my left, and I used my index finger to scroll. And guess what, I noted that the most natural way to do that was with the lower left corner resting in my palm - exactly where the two antennas meet.
Guess that makes me a moron, right?
A long while back I stated that Steve Ballmer was Apple's greatest asset. Why? Because his terrific pride kept him from recognizing the nascent threat that was the iPhone. That was back when win smartphones dominated and Ballmer called the iPhone a joke.
Flash forward to today: you and many other apple fanboys are evidencing the very same kind of hubris and arrogance. You are brutalizing people who have done no wrong other than to publicly acknowledge that they are having a problem with their iPhone. You lash out at them, you verbally abuse them, vilify them, slander them, and for what? What does it get you? A foolish sense of self superiority. Truly sad.
This is no longer about what % of phones are affected, nor whether or not all phones have the same issue. Somebody earlier in the thread pointed out that perception is oftentimes seen as the reality. That is beyond doubt.
This will have a negative effect on AAPL - how much so depends on whether Apple can regain the goodwill of those who now are reconsidering their iP4 purchase. So far, the upgraders have probably helped mitigate the effects on sales. The real test will be adoption by new customers, and the brouhaha over the antenna may well put a dent in those sales.
The next 30 days will be very interesting indeed.
You weren't aware that certain members have the ability to wave their hands and make issues and problems cease to exist?
Seems to me, they are trying to wave their hands and make other people cease to exist.
NASDAQ: + 1.99%
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Here here.
Funny how everyone I know with an iPhone 4 has ZERO issues/problems with it. Must be magic air in Japan here.
Well, I did return my iPhone 4 to Apple last week due to the numerous dropped calls and the apparent signal loss when holding the phone against my face.
There was also a problem with the Proximity Sensor, resulting in the touch of my ear to the screen(?) occasionally placing calls on hold and disconnecting from a call.
I miss the 4 and will repurchase if/when this antena problem is properly fixed.
John
Sigh. I don't know what a response like this is supposed to mean, even as humor. This is the first time in many years that Apple has been faced with a major PR issue. So far, as both an Apple fan and stockholder, I have to say I am unimpressed by they way they are handling it. A combination of silence and denial just is not going to cut it. Shades of Toyota.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...LEFTTopStories
Funny that you mentioned it since the latest governemnt report indicates that all but two cases against Toyota were drivers errors - the accelerator pedal was down and the breaks were not engaged. In one of those two "valid" cases the floor mat trapped the gas pedal. Tells you much about the society we live it. Bet, the case against Apple is the same blow up doll.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...LEFTTopStories
Funny that you mentioned it since the latest governemnt report indicates that all but two cases against Toyota were drivers errors - the accelerator pedal was down and the breaks were not engaged. In one of those two "valid" cases the floor mat trapped the gas pedal. Tells you much about the society we live it. Bet, the case against Apple is the same blow up doll.
Based on a very preliminary investigation. The analogy is a good one because Toyota was found to have sandbagged complaints, which is what really bit them in the backside. Again the lesson is, it's often not the "crime but the coverup" that causes the damage.
Mostly Android user trolls.
Based on a very preliminary investigation. The analogy is a good one because Toyota was found to have sandbagged complaints, which is what really bit them in the backside. Again the lesson is, it's often not the "crime but the coverup" that causes the damage.
Agree with you here. Excellent analogy. Bunch of lawyers, trolls, and just people that have never owned or even driven a Toyota jumped on that bandwagon
But hey, why bother waiting for the facts to come out when there is publicity to be made from kicking Apple when they're (sorta) down. Whatever - numbers don't lie. With billions in the bank and millions of new phones sold, they don't need to sweat ... yet.
The funny thing is that it's mostly non iphone 4 owners that are upset by this antenna issue.
Mostly Android user trolls.
Yeah, all those reports by so-called iPhone users about dropped signals are all fake. All trolls, every one. It's a vast conspiracy, run by Google in cahoots with the space aliens. Yep, that's what it is.
Yeah, all those reports by so-called iPhone users about dropped signals are all fake. All trolls, every one. It's a vast conspiracy, run by Google in cahoots with the space aliens. Yep, that's what it is.
And that is, in fact, what some of these guys think (minus the space aliens... or not). The tin-foil hats are on in abundance.