Why do people even think CR is the end all be all? People just want to be told what to do by some authority. And "journalism". Most if it is desperate sensationalism to grab eye balls. Most are the info equivalent of a car salesman. It's mostly now tabloid. I'm not referring to AI right now. I'm referring to the media in general that loves to regurgitate and misrepresent facts because they have to spew something. I use my phone all the time and ignore the stupid bars but because of the lazy media I have total strangers grinning asking how the phone is with all it's problems. I just say no problems and they look confused.
cr is not the end-all be-all, as far as i'm concerned. but from where i sit, they have a solid history in what they do and are independent.
this is the first time ever that i've heard of mr. bob egan.
so without doing any additional background checking, cr implicitly has my trust. i also trust that if they have made a mistake they will correct it. i can't say the same about mr. egan. and the only that that says, to me, is that he is an unknown. to me. ymmv.
I'm sure you searched around for an article like this, Daniel.
As a shareholder you aren't doing Apple any favors but refusing to acknowledge the real issue here along with them. Fixing it would have a better long-term result for their image, and their stock.
It's jerks like YOU that almost put Apple into bankruptcy. The **** with you and the horse you came in on.
And your fake sympathy is just too cloying. After you and your brothers created the problem.
While there is little controversy surrounding the fact that some changes can be observed in iPhone 4 signal bars by holding the device a certain way, and that the signal strength may impact call quality and data transmissions speeds, Egan notes that it is not known "what part of this problem is Apple?s and what part is related to the AT&T network. And we don?t know how the observed effect is, or is not, similar to other devices.
Actually, we do know for sure that it is not an AT&T issue:
I live in Japan, and the problem happens here on Japan's iPhone carrier Softbank. It is easily reproducible.
Well, I don't have enough expertise and information to make a judgment, but I can say that the snap reactions by Apple, Consumer Reports, and to some extent the news media in staking claims on 'the answer' diminish the credibility of the entire dogpilin' mess. Okay, we keep hearing that some iPhone 4 customers are irate and shrill in their claims, and that would imply that quick response is needed ('customer is right' and so forth). But this problem presents a game that doesn't necessarily reward the FIRST answer; it requires the RIGHT answer. And right now I'm not convinced anybody has sufficient data and experience to arrive at that right answer. As a result of these snap judgments, statements, and claims by Apple, CR, and the media (including bloggers), I think brand credibility will suffer all around.
Guys: step back, take a deep breath, and let's figure out what's going on with our heads screwed on right.
Have a little patience, wait until Apple releases their new firmware before bitching.
Firmware will NOT fix a design flaw. It's pretty simple, actually. In an area with poor reception and you decide to lay the iPhone in your palm, you drop the call. Touch the iPhone and you go from having bars - to "Searching".
Now, if there is a software or driver error, that's one thing. We are talking about a 'new' TriQuint chip after all.
The proximity detector essentially 'works' but it needs some tweaking. Firmware should fix that. But the antenna is another matter entirely.
As an aside, when I'm in a weak cell reception area (ie. where I work) I have found that I can get about ~10-12 dBA better reception if I disable the 3G. Don't understand why, but I do know that my phone works fairly reliably with 3G disabled and works poorly with 3G enabled - while I'm at work. At home, I have 5 bars (solid) and the phone works well without regard to 3G enabled or disabled.
The rub with Consumer Reports has always been that their testing lacks a proper scientific approach. Why would they change now?
Sometimes they get it right:
"Once users pay for "complete access to smart phones," Consumer Reports represents a detailed outline of its cellphone rankings where the new iPhone 4 leads the pack with a "highest rated" score of 76 points out of a possible 100. The next-highest ranked phones are Apple's previous generation iPhone 3GS and..."
Firmware will NOT fix a design flaw. It's pretty simple, actually. In an area with poor reception and you decide to lay the iPhone in your palm, you drop the call. Touch the iPhone and you go from having bars - to "Searching".
Now, if there is a software or driver error, that's one thing. We are talking about a 'new' TriQuint chip after all.
The proximity detector essentially 'works' but it needs some tweaking. Firmware should fix that. But the antenna is another matter entirely.
As an aside, when I'm in a weak cell reception area (ie. where I work) I have found that I can get about ~10-12 dBA better reception if I disable the 3G. Don't understand why, but I do know that my phone works fairly reliably with 3G disabled and works poorly with 3G enabled - while I'm at work. At home, I have 5 bars (solid) and the phone works well without regard to 3G enabled or disabled.
That's because the 3G network is usually worse, not as robust, as the older non 3G, GPRS say network, so while 3G as a protocol is better and faster, it's installed base is not as wide. That's my take on it at least.
As someone with a background in electronics, I know that high-frequency electronic design is the hardest area of all....
Sorry for the long post, but since people are venting in these forums anyway, why not do the same in my way? Oh well, the armchair engineers will always be louder than the real ones, I think I will have to live with that. Yes, I feel much quieter now, I'll take my coat and leave, shall I?
Firmware will NOT fix a design flaw. It's pretty simple, actually.
The new software will be able to detect when you are holding it wrong and if it causes a dropped call, it will display a message with a diagram explaining how to use the device properly.
There's been a lot of bad information put out. Attenuation has been called interference. Transmit power levels called receive levels.
From the video, it looks like what was tested was the iPhone transmit power as received by their simulator. As far as I can tell, no one has measured receive power levels which are what are displayed on the iPhone bars.
This was definitely not a rigorous test but more like a demo. It would be good to have a real engineering company with experience with cell phones to take measurements, but that likely would cost more than the media is willing to pay.
Hasn't Apple already admitted that the bar display is erroneous?
Well it's only us having this conversation not the wider community given iP4 demand.
I think it's quite a few more people than just us. CR is having the conversation. Nearly every tech blog is having this conversation. David Letterman is talking about it. Fox News, CNN, MSNBC are all talking about it. "Holding it wrong" has hit the mainstream with a shiny apple logo attached to it - bad PR, bad image.
Comments
So, articles on methodological criticisms of the CR iPhone tests, which have also been written about here, are somehow inappropriate?
Absolutely. Soviet logic. If you object to Chairman Android, who is pure as driven snow and "open", you are a counterrevolutionary.
I've been used to it on the political level. It's disheartening to see it on the tech level.
All martyrs of Stalinist antennas are now required to buy a case. The tyranny!
Why do people even think CR is the end all be all? People just want to be told what to do by some authority. And "journalism". Most if it is desperate sensationalism to grab eye balls. Most are the info equivalent of a car salesman. It's mostly now tabloid. I'm not referring to AI right now. I'm referring to the media in general that loves to regurgitate and misrepresent facts because they have to spew something. I use my phone all the time and ignore the stupid bars but because of the lazy media I have total strangers grinning asking how the phone is with all it's problems. I just say no problems and they look confused.
cr is not the end-all be-all, as far as i'm concerned. but from where i sit, they have a solid history in what they do and are independent.
this is the first time ever that i've heard of mr. bob egan.
so without doing any additional background checking, cr implicitly has my trust. i also trust that if they have made a mistake they will correct it. i can't say the same about mr. egan. and the only that that says, to me, is that he is an unknown. to me. ymmv.
I'm sure you searched around for an article like this, Daniel.
As a shareholder you aren't doing Apple any favors but refusing to acknowledge the real issue here along with them. Fixing it would have a better long-term result for their image, and their stock.
It's jerks like YOU that almost put Apple into bankruptcy. The **** with you and the horse you came in on.
And your fake sympathy is just too cloying. After you and your brothers created the problem.
this is the first time ever that i've heard of mr. bob egan.
Really? He's available for parties, weddings and all round entertainment.
It's jerks like YOU that almost put Apple into bankruptcy. The **** with you and the horse you came in on.
And your fake sympathy is just too cloying. After you and your brothers created the problem.
Steady on. He's not really Irish.
While there is little controversy surrounding the fact that some changes can be observed in iPhone 4 signal bars by holding the device a certain way, and that the signal strength may impact call quality and data transmissions speeds, Egan notes that it is not known "what part of this problem is Apple?s and what part is related to the AT&T network. And we don?t know how the observed effect is, or is not, similar to other devices.
Actually, we do know for sure that it is not an AT&T issue:
I live in Japan, and the problem happens here on Japan's iPhone carrier Softbank. It is easily reproducible.
Guys: step back, take a deep breath, and let's figure out what's going on with our heads screwed on right.
Really? He's available for parties, weddings and all round entertainment.
Except, based on his blog entry, he doesn't seem like much fun to me.
Have a little patience, wait until Apple releases their new firmware before bitching.
Firmware will NOT fix a design flaw. It's pretty simple, actually. In an area with poor reception and you decide to lay the iPhone in your palm, you drop the call. Touch the iPhone and you go from having bars - to "Searching".
Now, if there is a software or driver error, that's one thing. We are talking about a 'new' TriQuint chip after all.
The proximity detector essentially 'works' but it needs some tweaking. Firmware should fix that. But the antenna is another matter entirely.
As an aside, when I'm in a weak cell reception area (ie. where I work) I have found that I can get about ~10-12 dBA better reception if I disable the 3G. Don't understand why, but I do know that my phone works fairly reliably with 3G disabled and works poorly with 3G enabled - while I'm at work. At home, I have 5 bars (solid) and the phone works well without regard to 3G enabled or disabled.
And that's not to mention the cases where the intentionally fudge the test. Remember the test on car roll-overs?
These were the allegations, they were not proven in court. CR has faced many of these suits, but they have never lost one.
BTW, I'm not defending CR, only accuracy.
The rub with Consumer Reports has always been that their testing lacks a proper scientific approach. Why would they change now?
Sometimes they get it right:
"Once users pay for "complete access to smart phones," Consumer Reports represents a detailed outline of its cellphone rankings where the new iPhone 4 leads the pack with a "highest rated" score of 76 points out of a possible 100. The next-highest ranked phones are Apple's previous generation iPhone 3GS and..."
Firmware will NOT fix a design flaw. It's pretty simple, actually. In an area with poor reception and you decide to lay the iPhone in your palm, you drop the call. Touch the iPhone and you go from having bars - to "Searching".
Now, if there is a software or driver error, that's one thing. We are talking about a 'new' TriQuint chip after all.
The proximity detector essentially 'works' but it needs some tweaking. Firmware should fix that. But the antenna is another matter entirely.
As an aside, when I'm in a weak cell reception area (ie. where I work) I have found that I can get about ~10-12 dBA better reception if I disable the 3G. Don't understand why, but I do know that my phone works fairly reliably with 3G disabled and works poorly with 3G enabled - while I'm at work. At home, I have 5 bars (solid) and the phone works well without regard to 3G enabled or disabled.
That's because the 3G network is usually worse, not as robust, as the older non 3G, GPRS say network, so while 3G as a protocol is better and faster, it's installed base is not as wide. That's my take on it at least.
Phone's dropping bars:-
HTC EVO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh6pUNY_rv8
HTC Evo Signal Attenuation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pj2YBYTbag
Samsung Galaxy:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPCQdYtPihg
Droid Incredible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDE941PzQk
Droid Incredible (With Network Extender in Room): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpEQH...eature=related
Nexus One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIA_lMwqJA
Nexus One vs. iPhone (start at 1:29): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvMoV4_C4aA
Nexus One: http://posterous.com/getfile/files.p...n_-_iPhone.m4v
Nexus One (after Google's update to correct): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2g5J4qPp54
Nexus One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deCkjeHYT-g
Android G1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CDaxhjUs9M
"Major signal degradation when Nexus One is picked up" (N1 Thread on On this Problem): http://www.google.com/support/forum/...9184c33e&hl=en
N97 Mini http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZvCQfQxiPM
Courtesy of someone on Macrumours
Actually, we do know for sure that it is not an AT&T issue:
I live in Japan, and the problem happens here on Japan's iPhone carrier Softbank. It is easily reproducible.
Something's wrong with that phone's antenna and everyone on AI knows it.
I did it myself with my friend's iPhone 4. Dropped the signal massively every time.
Basic physics: if you ground an antenna, it won't work very well.
As someone with a background in electronics, I know that high-frequency electronic design is the hardest area of all....
Sorry for the long post, but since people are venting in these forums anyway, why not do the same in my way? Oh well, the armchair engineers will always be louder than the real ones, I think I will have to live with that. Yes, I feel much quieter now, I'll take my coat and leave, shall I?
Thanks, and welcome.
There are way too many stupid people on this planet. The irony is that no one ever thinks of themselves as being the stupid one.
Well, I think the antenna problem is way overblown.
The Bumpers take care of it care of it for now, but some people just like to complain.
Firmware will NOT fix a design flaw. It's pretty simple, actually.
The new software will be able to detect when you are holding it wrong and if it causes a dropped call, it will display a message with a diagram explaining how to use the device properly.
There's been a lot of bad information put out. Attenuation has been called interference. Transmit power levels called receive levels.
From the video, it looks like what was tested was the iPhone transmit power as received by their simulator. As far as I can tell, no one has measured receive power levels which are what are displayed on the iPhone bars.
This was definitely not a rigorous test but more like a demo. It would be good to have a real engineering company with experience with cell phones to take measurements, but that likely would cost more than the media is willing to pay.
Hasn't Apple already admitted that the bar display is erroneous?
Well it's only us having this conversation not the wider community given iP4 demand.
I think it's quite a few more people than just us. CR is having the conversation. Nearly every tech blog is having this conversation. David Letterman is talking about it. Fox News, CNN, MSNBC are all talking about it. "Holding it wrong" has hit the mainstream with a shiny apple logo attached to it - bad PR, bad image.
People have been complaining about the iPhone as a phone since day one. .
Exactly. And Apple was stunned to learn what the problem has been this whole time. It was so simple that it surprised even them.