I think offering a full refund to anyone dissatisfied would be a smart move. You can't argue with a full refund, and I suspect there are a lot of people for whom it works just fine, so hopefully not too much pain for Apple.
Because if you look through the posts on message boards, there are actually a lot of people saying their's works fine, they just don't get as much attention as the people with problems.
So forgive me, but I haven't seen anyone ask this question, if the reception problem is so bad (we haven't seen it on either my wife's or my iphone4) how did all the carriers miss it in their testing?? I have a hard time believing Apple was able to hide this "feature" for all their partner carriers??
1. There are still a lot of people complaining about the issue and in the same breath saying they don't own an iPhone, have never touched and iPhone and never would. If they've never touched one and have no plans to, 'STFU' is an appropriate response. They have no objectivity and no facts to base their opinion on. They're simply repeating the most negative comments they can find.
2. There are some people who want miracles. They want the phone to never lose any signal no matter what you do to it. No matter what Apple does, they will not be happy -- yet they refuse to return their phone for a refund. Clearly, their expectations are unreasonable. (Although I suspect that many of them are actually in group #1).
You are probably right, those are likely the two most common complaints about the whiners. Unfortunately, they are used against pretty much anyone that believes there is an issue and joins the discussion.
1) Person that bought a phone and has been dropping calls and has heard of the reported problems or experienced them. They have been waiting to see what Apple says about it. They join the discussion here. Typical response, from your 'main complaints' options, would normally be #2. "STFU, you expect it to be perfect? You want a working phone? You want miracles?"
2) Person that intends to buy an iPhone but wants to see how Apple responds and deals with the widely reported problems. Typical response, probably #1: "STFU, you have never touched and iPhone and never would. You have no objectivity and no facts to base you opinion on. You're simply repeating the most negative comments they can find."
Apple obviously thinks it is a serious enough issue, as does much of the world, o/w we wouldn't have today's event. If it's not an issue for you, great.
Run along, now.....
I don't know about whining, but this has gotten way more attention than it deserves. The senator. Five minutes on the Today show this morning, it's ridiculous.
It's hard to think of another product (I mean smartphones, not brands) that people have become this glued to and that could result in this much attention. Especially given that it's not affecting everyone, it doesn't appear to be a catastrophic condition, it's not dangerous....
I can't think of anything else that would garner this kind of attention. It shows how attached people have become to their phones. It wouldn't have gotten this much attention if it weren't Apple of course...
I think offering a full refund to anyone dissatisfied would be a smart move. You can't argue with a full refund, and I suspect there are a lot of people for whom it works just fine, so hopefully not too much pain for Apple..
Not at all. Apple is currently offering a full refund - and look at all the people whining. Plenty of people are arguing with a full refund.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
You are probably right, those are likely the two most common complaints about the whiners. Unfortunately, they are used against pretty much anyone that believes there is an issue and joins the discussion.
1) Person that bought a phone and has been dropping calls and has heard of the reported problems. They have been waiting to see what Apple says about it. They join the discussion here. Typical response, from your 'main complaints' options, would normally be #2. "STFU, you expect it to be perfect? You want a working phone? You want miracles?"
2) Person that intends to buy an iPhone but wants to see how Apple responds and deals with the widely reported problems. Typical response, probably #1: "STFU, you have never touched and iPhone and never would. You have no objectivity and no facts to base you opinion on. You're simply repeating the most negative comments they can find."
Except that those things do not often happen.
#1. People who are actually dropping calls are generally being encouraged to return the phone or get a case or hold the phone differently. Returning the phone solves their dropped call problem (if they can find another phone that never drops a call, of course). Getting a case or holding the phone differently is not ideal (no one ever said it was), but if they like the phone well enough to put up with that inconvenience, it's an alternative to returning it for a refund. No one ever suggested that anyone should put up with a phone dropping calls.
Personally, I didn't get any dropped calls, but I did see the signal drop when touching the band. I'm in a moderate-signal area, so there's a chance that I would get dropped calls if I went to a low signal area. Because of that risk, I bought a case. I would prefer to have the iPhone without a case, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. It's in its holster 99% of the time and during the 1% of the time that I'm using it, it's by my face so I don't see it anyway. It's a very minor inconvenience for me- certainly minor enough that I had no desire to return it. If using a case is just so offensive to you that you can't tolerate it, you have the option to return the phone for a refund. It's your choice.
#2 In almost every case, if someone comes here with an honest question, they'll get an honest answer. If they come here with all guns blazing and throwing out stuff like "we know that Apple is incompetent and evil, so why should I buy the iPhone", it's not an honest question. Most of the people being told to stfu are not asking honest questions - they're throwing fuel on the fire.
Would I like a phone with all the features of the iPhone and its ease of use and consistency, but that never dropped a call no matter what I did or where I was? Sure. But that's just not a realistic expectation.
It wouldn't have gotten this much attention if it weren't Apple of course...
Of course it wouldn't. Even when Apple was 'beleaguered' they received far more media attention than their size would merit. Now that they are wildly successful they get even more attention, deservedly.
Apple has always used this attention to their advantage, usually to drive hype for their products. Unfortunately, it goes both ways.
At this point, if I had one, I'd say screw it and grab a rubber case. There's no indication that anything will change in the production (like a clear coat over the metal antenna piece) so really, it's time to shit or get off the pot.
If you keep the phone past the 30 day mark, you shouldn't be complaining all that much about it anymore.
What a shame that the ip4 has had all these issues. First it was the leaked prototype, then it was an issue with all the white ones, then it was the overwhelmed servers, now this. Jobs must be going out of his mind over all the incompetency.
Here's the full press conference which was taped in advance by an inside operative. The fun starts at 03:46 into the video. Jobs is the one with the "tool".
Two of the quoted 'Analysts' [and many posters] suggest that Apple should instituted a refund policy. DUH - Apple announced some time ago that anyone dissatisfied with their iPhone4 could return it for a full refund. And that means no restocking fee as well. No indication yet on the number of returns but Apple's reference to <1% seems credible.
I am also betting that a software fix is in the works because the signal processing explanation is the most logical, given the level of antenna design and engineering that is apparent.
btw - some people actually know something about antenna design.
Would I like a phone with all the features of the iPhone and its ease of use and consistency, but that never dropped a call no matter what I did or where I was? Sure. But that's just not a realistic expectation.
In fact, there is such a phone. It is called 3GS. I own both, BTW. I not only own them personally, but I also own them for the lab where we test our UMTS infrastructure product.
If Apple does implement some sort of recall (voluntary or otherwise), free bumpers, or an exchange for a hardware corrected model, how many people here that have claimed they never have a problem end up taking advantage of the offers.
"I don't believe there is a problem, I haven't seen a problem and everyone that does is just a whiner! But, I will exchange, just in case"
So forgive me, but I haven't seen anyone ask this question, if the reception problem is so bad (we haven't seen it on either my wife's or my iphone4) how did all the carriers miss it in their testing?? I have a hard time believing Apple was able to hide this "feature" for all their partner carriers??
According to some reports, it's because the carriers got test phones that were in a specially designed body and case so it would not reveal the actual phone design. Since it was in a case, the issue did not present itself. Also, Apple gave the carriers less time and phones then other manufacturers for testing.
Because the carriers got a test phone that was in a specially designed body and case so it would not reveal the actual phone design. Since it was in a case, the issue did not present itself.
Your evidence of that?
Oh, wait. it's you. You're just making things up as usual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav
Sure they would. If someone bought an iPhone 4, it means they want a fully working iPhone 4, not the money they paid for it.
It's like any product you ever buy. If the product does not work to your satisfaction, you return it for a refund.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrkiran
In fact, there is such a phone. It is called 3GS. I own both, BTW. I not only own them personally, but I also own them for the lab where we test our UMTS infrastructure product.
Nonsense. You're claiming that the 3GS will never drop a call no matter where you are or what you do? BS. Travel to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Take a ride in a submarine. ALL phones can drop calls or fail to make a call. It comes down to whether the frequency of this is acceptable or not.
So forgive me, but I haven't seen anyone ask this question, if the reception problem is so bad (we haven't seen it on either my wife's or my iphone4) how did all the carriers miss it in their testing?? I have a hard time believing Apple was able to hide this "feature" for all their partner carriers??
I hope this is an honest question!
Apple rarely gives the final device to anyone outside. It has too much importance in terms of overall PR buzz they create before the launch. According to a QA engineer I know, even most of the QA folks got a well disguised device that did not have an exposed antenna so they never saw any issue.
What I find ironic and a bit confusing is the people on here because they are having troubles with the iP4 just assume that everyone is and if you state you're not your a iSheep, fanboy, Apple apologist, etc.
Why is it any different than the people on here that are having troubles (and I believe there are) being shouted down and being told to STFU? None.
Nonsense. You're claiming that the 3GS will never drop a call no matter where you are or what you do? BS. Travel to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Take a ride in a submarine. ALL phones can drop calls or fail to make a call. It comes down to whether the frequency of this is acceptable or not.
Of course not. But same holding habits I had for 12 years of cell-phose use work fine with 3GS and do not work for 4.
You should cool down and think! On the other hand, I admire you for having such blind "faith" something you did not personally design and develop! You must be a great team player for whatever you work for! (No sarcasm intended)
The money back if you don't like it idea (within 30 days) is the best solution. This will shorten the waiting times for the majority. Although I doubt too many will be returned. I am pretty sure most of the moaning on these blogs are from 'interested parties' not real owners.
Although if they admit that they've changed the design, this functions as a de facto voluntary recall since it allows people to return the original version and buy the updated hardware. If there's a hardware change (which seems extremely likely), I could see even people who aren't having problems exchanging it. After all, even if you don't have a problem so far, who knows if you'll be in a lower signal area and encounter it.
Comments
Because if you look through the posts on message boards, there are actually a lot of people saying their's works fine, they just don't get as much attention as the people with problems.
The main complaints about the whiners are 2-fold:
1. There are still a lot of people complaining about the issue and in the same breath saying they don't own an iPhone, have never touched and iPhone and never would. If they've never touched one and have no plans to, 'STFU' is an appropriate response. They have no objectivity and no facts to base their opinion on. They're simply repeating the most negative comments they can find.
2. There are some people who want miracles. They want the phone to never lose any signal no matter what you do to it. No matter what Apple does, they will not be happy -- yet they refuse to return their phone for a refund. Clearly, their expectations are unreasonable. (Although I suspect that many of them are actually in group #1).
You are probably right, those are likely the two most common complaints about the whiners. Unfortunately, they are used against pretty much anyone that believes there is an issue and joins the discussion.
1) Person that bought a phone and has been dropping calls and has heard of the reported problems or experienced them. They have been waiting to see what Apple says about it. They join the discussion here. Typical response, from your 'main complaints' options, would normally be #2. "STFU, you expect it to be perfect? You want a working phone? You want miracles?"
2) Person that intends to buy an iPhone but wants to see how Apple responds and deals with the widely reported problems. Typical response, probably #1: "STFU, you have never touched and iPhone and never would. You have no objectivity and no facts to base you opinion on. You're simply repeating the most negative comments they can find."
No one is whining. Stop over-reacting.
Apple obviously thinks it is a serious enough issue, as does much of the world, o/w we wouldn't have today's event. If it's not an issue for you, great.
Run along, now.....
I don't know about whining, but this has gotten way more attention than it deserves. The senator. Five minutes on the Today show this morning, it's ridiculous.
It's hard to think of another product (I mean smartphones, not brands) that people have become this glued to and that could result in this much attention. Especially given that it's not affecting everyone, it doesn't appear to be a catastrophic condition, it's not dangerous....
I can't think of anything else that would garner this kind of attention. It shows how attached people have become to their phones. It wouldn't have gotten this much attention if it weren't Apple of course...
I think offering a full refund to anyone dissatisfied would be a smart move. You can't argue with a full refund, and I suspect there are a lot of people for whom it works just fine, so hopefully not too much pain for Apple..
Not at all. Apple is currently offering a full refund - and look at all the people whining. Plenty of people are arguing with a full refund.
You are probably right, those are likely the two most common complaints about the whiners. Unfortunately, they are used against pretty much anyone that believes there is an issue and joins the discussion.
1) Person that bought a phone and has been dropping calls and has heard of the reported problems. They have been waiting to see what Apple says about it. They join the discussion here. Typical response, from your 'main complaints' options, would normally be #2. "STFU, you expect it to be perfect? You want a working phone? You want miracles?"
2) Person that intends to buy an iPhone but wants to see how Apple responds and deals with the widely reported problems. Typical response, probably #1: "STFU, you have never touched and iPhone and never would. You have no objectivity and no facts to base you opinion on. You're simply repeating the most negative comments they can find."
Except that those things do not often happen.
#1. People who are actually dropping calls are generally being encouraged to return the phone or get a case or hold the phone differently. Returning the phone solves their dropped call problem (if they can find another phone that never drops a call, of course). Getting a case or holding the phone differently is not ideal (no one ever said it was), but if they like the phone well enough to put up with that inconvenience, it's an alternative to returning it for a refund. No one ever suggested that anyone should put up with a phone dropping calls.
Personally, I didn't get any dropped calls, but I did see the signal drop when touching the band. I'm in a moderate-signal area, so there's a chance that I would get dropped calls if I went to a low signal area. Because of that risk, I bought a case. I would prefer to have the iPhone without a case, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. It's in its holster 99% of the time and during the 1% of the time that I'm using it, it's by my face so I don't see it anyway. It's a very minor inconvenience for me- certainly minor enough that I had no desire to return it. If using a case is just so offensive to you that you can't tolerate it, you have the option to return the phone for a refund. It's your choice.
#2 In almost every case, if someone comes here with an honest question, they'll get an honest answer. If they come here with all guns blazing and throwing out stuff like "we know that Apple is incompetent and evil, so why should I buy the iPhone", it's not an honest question. Most of the people being told to stfu are not asking honest questions - they're throwing fuel on the fire.
Would I like a phone with all the features of the iPhone and its ease of use and consistency, but that never dropped a call no matter what I did or where I was? Sure. But that's just not a realistic expectation.
It wouldn't have gotten this much attention if it weren't Apple of course...
Of course it wouldn't. Even when Apple was 'beleaguered' they received far more media attention than their size would merit. Now that they are wildly successful they get even more attention, deservedly.
Apple has always used this attention to their advantage, usually to drive hype for their products. Unfortunately, it goes both ways.
If you keep the phone past the 30 day mark, you shouldn't be complaining all that much about it anymore.
What a shame that the ip4 has had all these issues. First it was the leaked prototype, then it was an issue with all the white ones, then it was the overwhelmed servers, now this. Jobs must be going out of his mind over all the incompetency.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVMPlIQAz5E
I am also betting that a software fix is in the works because the signal processing explanation is the most logical, given the level of antenna design and engineering that is apparent.
btw - some people actually know something about antenna design.
Would I like a phone with all the features of the iPhone and its ease of use and consistency, but that never dropped a call no matter what I did or where I was? Sure. But that's just not a realistic expectation.
In fact, there is such a phone. It is called 3GS. I own both, BTW. I not only own them personally, but I also own them for the lab where we test our UMTS infrastructure product.
Not at all. Apple is currently offering a full refund - and look at all the people whining. Plenty of people are arguing with a full refund.
Sure they would. If someone bought an iPhone 4, it means they want a fully working iPhone 4, not the money they paid for it.
If Apple does implement some sort of recall (voluntary or otherwise), free bumpers, or an exchange for a hardware corrected model, how many people here that have claimed they never have a problem end up taking advantage of the offers.
"I don't believe there is a problem, I haven't seen a problem and everyone that does is just a whiner! But, I will exchange, just in case"
Ditto!
So forgive me, but I haven't seen anyone ask this question, if the reception problem is so bad (we haven't seen it on either my wife's or my iphone4) how did all the carriers miss it in their testing?? I have a hard time believing Apple was able to hide this "feature" for all their partner carriers??
According to some reports, it's because the carriers got test phones that were in a specially designed body and case so it would not reveal the actual phone design. Since it was in a case, the issue did not present itself. Also, Apple gave the carriers less time and phones then other manufacturers for testing.
Because the carriers got a test phone that was in a specially designed body and case so it would not reveal the actual phone design. Since it was in a case, the issue did not present itself.
Your evidence of that?
Oh, wait. it's you. You're just making things up as usual.
Sure they would. If someone bought an iPhone 4, it means they want a fully working iPhone 4, not the money they paid for it.
It's like any product you ever buy. If the product does not work to your satisfaction, you return it for a refund.
In fact, there is such a phone. It is called 3GS. I own both, BTW. I not only own them personally, but I also own them for the lab where we test our UMTS infrastructure product.
Nonsense. You're claiming that the 3GS will never drop a call no matter where you are or what you do? BS. Travel to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Take a ride in a submarine. ALL phones can drop calls or fail to make a call. It comes down to whether the frequency of this is acceptable or not.
So forgive me, but I haven't seen anyone ask this question, if the reception problem is so bad (we haven't seen it on either my wife's or my iphone4) how did all the carriers miss it in their testing?? I have a hard time believing Apple was able to hide this "feature" for all their partner carriers??
I hope this is an honest question!
Apple rarely gives the final device to anyone outside. It has too much importance in terms of overall PR buzz they create before the launch. According to a QA engineer I know, even most of the QA folks got a well disguised device that did not have an exposed antenna so they never saw any issue.
Why is it any different than the people on here that are having troubles (and I believe there are) being shouted down and being told to STFU? None.
I find both situations insulting.
Nonsense. You're claiming that the 3GS will never drop a call no matter where you are or what you do? BS. Travel to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Take a ride in a submarine. ALL phones can drop calls or fail to make a call. It comes down to whether the frequency of this is acceptable or not.
Of course not. But same holding habits I had for 12 years of cell-phose use work fine with 3GS and do not work for 4.
You should cool down and think! On the other hand, I admire you for having such blind "faith" something you did not personally design and develop! You must be a great team player for whatever you work for! (No sarcasm intended)
"I don't believe there is a problem, I haven't seen a problem and everyone that does is just a whiner! But, I will exchange, just in case"
LOL. So true !! I bet "jragosta" will be one of the first in line to get an exchange
The money back if you don't like it idea (within 30 days) is the best solution. This will shorten the waiting times for the majority. Although I doubt too many will be returned. I am pretty sure most of the moaning on these blogs are from 'interested parties' not real owners.
Although if they admit that they've changed the design, this functions as a de facto voluntary recall since it allows people to return the original version and buy the updated hardware. If there's a hardware change (which seems extremely likely), I could see even people who aren't having problems exchanging it. After all, even if you don't have a problem so far, who knows if you'll be in a lower signal area and encounter it.
It's like any product you ever buy. If the product does not work to your satisfaction, you return it for a refund.
yeah, no one ever discusses problem on tech forums. No company ever fixes problems, they simply expect everything to come back as a return.
No, in the real world, people discuss. People complain. People wait and see what the company says about the problem.