AT&T defensively publishes private dropped call data

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 71
    nanoakronnanoakron Posts: 125member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post


    I don't get your remark....AT&T is basically trying to hand over a ton of money to the people of San Fran....in this horrible economy where jobs are scarce.....to build new cell towers and expand the infrastructure and the loonies over at city hall are looking the other way. Idiots.



    Ah...NIMBYism at its best.



    It's what's stopping the Western world converting to wind power, upgrading train lines and generally improving our urban world.
  • Reply 22 of 71
    yodamacyodamac Posts: 59member
    Sorry, but "massively changing the human environment" has been happening since people started building houses and wearing clothes - and generally doing things to change their environment for the better.



    The species will evolve and adapt over time and thrive in whatever environment we create for ourselves. (on Earth, Mars, wherever)



    Relax, and remove your tinfoil hat. The "good ol days" weren't so hot and I look forward to a new and better human being.



    Just think - humans who can survive boiling brains! Who could stop us then!
  • Reply 23 of 71
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,035member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Beauty of Bath View Post


    Whilst it's not popular for people to dis wireless of all types in tech circles it fucks your body up. The industries (computer, phone etc) all cover it up but it is well known, such that before I bought my first mobile in 1986 I knew about it from an industry insider subsequently confirmed by a former Navy radio officer working in the cell phone industry. Telecoms engineers report 3x leukemia rates - the source can never be separated from background radiation by subsequent govt/industry (same thing) investigators.



    !



    Hey do you know microwaves will cook you form the inside out if you stand in front of a microwave tower. This is true give it a try. This exact how they invented the microwave oven in your home. They found that telecom engineers who would stupid enough to align microwave transmitters with the power on were dying from internal burns, they cook their organs. So if it was not for them dying you would not have that microwave in your house.



    So it does not surprise me that engineer had ill-affect from their activities, some time engineer do not think through the possible outcome of stand in front of high power transmitters or other activities.



    Also, do you know that for the longest time transmitter on ships did not have warning and people would walk right past them when they were operating. Today an all shipped they have area of the ship where you not allow to be due to radar systems and communications system because if you stand in front on them you will die or be serious injured. This only an issue under high power not low power. There is no causal to back this up.



    lastly you know some people are more likely to get a disease or be sick then other people so any activity they do might cause them to have problems verses someone else. Just because someone got sick or came down with a disease it not proof the activity caused it.
  • Reply 24 of 71
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,604member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by YodaMac View Post


    Sorry, but "massively changing the human environment" has been happening since people started building houses and wearing clothes - and generally doing things to change their environment for the better.



    The species will evolve and adapt over time and thrive in whatever environment we create for ourselves. (on Earth, Mars, wherever)



    Relax, and remove your tinfoil hat. The "good ol days" weren't so hot and I look forward to a new and better human being.



    Just think - humans who can survive boiling brains! Who could stop us then!



    And all this frightens the horses too.
  • Reply 25 of 71
    After Apple releasing a product that has this major usability and reliability issue with how you hold it, I am happy I went with a Droid X. I'm lucky enough to get my phone paid by my company and could have chosen an iPhone4, but decided purely on the issue of the call reliability.



    After hearing for years how the dropped calls were ATT's fault, I think people should be more critical of Apple. They do design beautiful looking phones that probably have the best, most cohesive software. But its rediculous that that they come out and say that their new phones have less than 1 in 100 more dropped calls. Their phones should be getting better-not worse or staying the same. They have gotten a pass on the blame for the dropped calls for too long. They should have hired those antennae engineers years ago. The iphone is after all a phone, not just an iPod Touch (which I have and love).
  • Reply 26 of 71
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Trajectory View Post


    Damn, this article is pretty harsh on San Fran. I'm sure that will make a few people here very very happy to see.



    We (Daniel and I) are residents of San Francisco. The special interest groups are hard on San Francisco, with Spies of the Urban Forest running around looking for trees and jackhammering them in front of homes and businesses (literally, to made the hole in the sidewalk for them).



    I'd love to see the cell phone usage of SNAFU members . And really lovely that they have to reduce San Francisco in their name to a single letter to make their acronym.



    Thanks, Daniel, for letting us know about the organized resistance to mobile towers who *then* complain about the lack of service. I thought it was just people conning schools into publishing petition signature requests in the school newsletters.
  • Reply 27 of 71
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,595member
    <inappropriate post removed>
  • Reply 28 of 71
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maccherry View Post


    att has the money to upgrade but doesn't want to spend it.



    They're spending > $2 Billion this year to move the bulk of their traffic to their fiber-based HSPA 7.2 and LTE-capable backhaul.



    Sure, they could spend an additional $10 Billion and make every rural zone 3G, but where is their ROI?
  • Reply 29 of 71
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kevin Weber View Post


    After Apple releasing a product that has this major usability and reliability issue with how you hold it, I am happy I went with a Droid X. I'm lucky enough to get my phone paid by my company and could have chosen an iPhone4, but decided purely on the issue of the call reliability.



    After hearing for years how the dropped calls were ATT's fault, I think people should be more critical of Apple. They do design beautiful looking phones that probably have the best, most cohesive software. But its rediculous that that they come out and say that their new phones have less than 1 in 100 more dropped calls. Their phones should be getting better-not worse or staying the same. They have gotten a pass on the blame for the dropped calls for too long. They should have hired those antennae engineers years ago. The iphone is after all a phone, not just an iPod Touch (which I have and love).



    ALL cellphones drop calls, ALL networks drop calls. I have had an iPhone since the original and have NEVER experienced ANY abnormal behavior. I know dozens of iPhone users and NONE of them have experienced any abnormal rates of dropped calls. I had a Motorola phone once that couldn't hold calls on Verizon in my neighborhood right in downtown Denver. So now I'm supposed to say that motorola and verizon suck??? No, they just had bad reception in my neighborhood. SF and NYC have both had real problems, SF for the reasons explained in this piece, and because of NYC density and towering obstructions, yet they seem to get all the attention in these asinine rants like yours. Any service provider or handset is going to face these same issues in these two cities if they are as successful as Apple in selling smartphones.
  • Reply 30 of 71
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


    <inappropriate post removed>





    That is a rather rude thing to write. What exactly do you find erroneous about his/her original post?
  • Reply 31 of 71
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post


    Hey do you know microwaves will cook you form the inside out if you stand in front of a microwave tower. This is true give it a try. This exact how they invented the microwave oven in your home. They found that telecom engineers who would stupid enough to align microwave transmitters with the power on were dying from internal burns, they cook their organs. So if it was not for them dying you would not have that microwave in your house.



    So it does not surprise me that engineer had ill-affect from their activities, some time engineer do not think through the possible outcome of stand in front of high power transmitters or other activities.



    Also, do you know that for the longest time transmitter on ships did not have warning and people would walk right past them when they were operating. Today an all shipped they have area of the ship where you not allow to be due to radar systems and communications system because if you stand in front on them you will die or be serious injured. This only an issue under high power not low power. There is no causal to back this up.



    lastly you know some people are more likely to get a disease or be sick then other people so any activity they do might cause them to have problems verses someone else. Just because someone got sick or came down with a disease it not proof the activity caused it.



    http://www.ideafinder.com/history/in.../microwave.htm



    The microwave oven was "discovered" thanks to a melted candy bar - not a dead engineer.



    As for warning labels, ever look at a ladder lately? or even a step stool - some of the have a sticker that says "DO NOT CONTINUE BEYOND THIS STEP" - likely because someone stepped off the top of a ladder - or onto the top rung and leaned over and fell off - not because ladders are a uncontrolled hazard in and of themselves.





    Those San Franciscans are so gay... not that there's anything wrong with that



    Regarding the risk of cancer - just about everything we do - including standing outside and breathing the earth's atmosphere carries some risk of cancer. The most compelling case of a cell phone causing cancer that I have ever seen was back in the 80s or early 90s - a case where the dots made on the patients had to align the radiation device lined up exactly with the antenna in the cell phone used - but that could as easily be a result of the fact that human beings design both the cell phone and the medical devices to be operated by guess what human hands - so the coincidence may have nothing whatsoever to do with radiation from the antenna. and that was only 1 case - there would have to be something like 10% of cell phone users developing brain cancer before you could hope to have a sample size large enough to be statistically significant.
  • Reply 32 of 71
    coolcatcoolcat Posts: 156member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post


    I read the entire article BEFORE I noticed who wrote. But, when I go to the end, I thought: only Daniel could have written this.



    San Francisco is the most dysfunctional city I know of. And, I love to visit as a tourist.

    But, the idiotic laws that both the Board and the citizens pass are just insane.



    I agree with ya about SF, those same pot smoking hippies bitching about cell tower construction are the first ones to bitch about their shitty service....pretty sad...and I'm FROM San Francisco!!! I love the city but damn....
  • Reply 33 of 71
    aaarrrggghaaarrrgggh Posts: 1,608member
    I have trouble believing AT&T doesn't know exactly what percentage of calls have had degraded performance leading to dropped calls. If you don't weight it to where their customers are calling, it has no meaning (just like the Verizon map...)



    My neighborhood has about a 5% dropped call rate with AT&T. I'm sure neighborhood organizations don't help things, but there are obvious locations that they don't control that are easy to address for microcells.
  • Reply 34 of 71
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by coolcat View Post


    I agree with ya about SF, those same pot smoking hippies bitching about cell tower construction are the first ones to bitch about their shitty service....pretty sad...and I'm FROM San Francisco!!! I love the city but damn....



    You know what they say..."Follow the money." Who has an interest in building towers? What ulterior motive does SNAFU have for opposing them?
  • Reply 35 of 71
    cory bauercory bauer Posts: 1,286member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    That's the point. The iPhone 4 is 66% above average, with regards dropped calls.



    According to whom? And what percentage is the iPhone 3GS or 3G above average?
  • Reply 36 of 71
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post


    According to whom? And what percentage is the iPhone 3GS or 3G above average?



    AT&T says their average drop rate is 1.44%.

    Apple says the iPhone 4 drops <1 call per 100 (read: slightly under 1%) more than iPhone 3GS.



    So there are three possible scenarios.



    1) iPhone 3GS drops less than the network average - say, 0.5% of calls. iPhone 4 then drops around 1.4% of calls and is right in line with the network average. Great for 3GS users, but a dramatic step backwards for iPhone 4.



    2) iPhone 3GS drops an average rate - say, 1.5% of calls. iPhone 4 then drops around 2.4% of calls, significantly above average and 60% more than 3GS. Again, a dramatic step backwards, and worse than the overall network.



    3) iPhone 3GS drops more than the network average - say, 5% of calls. iPhone 4 then drops around 5.9% of calls. Not a huge difference between the two (an 18% increase) but both models are much much worse than the network average.



    None of these are particularly ideal scenarios for the company. I'd say #1 is the least negative, but in my experience with both models, also the least likely...
  • Reply 37 of 71
    maxijazzmaxijazz Posts: 25member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post


    The data's from March. iPhone 4 came out end of June. How does it relate?



    It relates in Daniel's propaganda. In real life if you disconnect your call because proximity sensor issue then that call is still good from network point of view. Why? Network knows YOU disconnected the call, it is not network fault, it did NOT drop that call. YOU did (because sensor sensations). Anyway it does not bother Daniel insinuate this kind of "drops" is reported by ATT.
  • Reply 38 of 71
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Take a closer look at ATT's quote:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    "actual quantitative results derived from millions of calls made during extensive drive-testing of the AT&T mobile broadband network by a highly respected outside firm"



    So basically, ATT's contractor only drove in areas where they were on ATT's 3G network (that's their "mobile broadband" network). And while their contract may be "highly respected" that by no means means they are independent. You can bet they only tested where ATT told (ie, paid) them to test. So the EDGE network wasn't tested. And we have no way of knowing what percentage of those millions of calls were placed in places like San Fran and New York vs on open highways between cities.



    So this "quantitative" testing is likely no more accurate than the user survey conducted by ChangeWave. Just because it's scientific doesn't mean it's accurate. As they say, "numbers will confess to anything if you torture them long enough."
  • Reply 39 of 71
    cory bauercory bauer Posts: 1,286member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sfogviper View Post


    AT&T says their average drop rate is 1.44%.

    Apple says the iPhone 4 drops <1 call per 100 (read: slightly under 1%) more than iPhone 3GS.



    So there are three possible scenarios.



    1) iPhone 3GS drops less than the network average - say, 0.5% of calls. iPhone 4 then drops around 1.4% of calls and is right in line with the network average. Great for 3GS users, but a dramatic step backwards for iPhone 4.



    2) iPhone 3GS drops an average rate - say, 1.5% of calls. iPhone 4 then drops around 2.4% of calls, significantly above average and 60% more than 3GS. Again, a dramatic step backwards, and worse than the overall network.



    3) iPhone 3GS drops more than the network average - say, 5% of calls. iPhone 4 then drops around 5.9% of calls. Not a huge difference between the two (an 18% increase) but both models are much much worse than the network average.



    None of these are particularly ideal scenarios for the company. I'd say #1 is the least negative, but in my experience with both models, also the least likely...



    Well first of all, I don't know if I believe AT&T's claims of only dropping 1.44% of calls made with 3G cellphones; that seems awfully unlikely given their terrible reputation. Secondly, any iPhone 3G or 3GS owner who's been on the AT&T network the past couple of years can tell you there's no way in hell they only drop 1 or 2 out of 100 calls. Even only 5 out of 100 seems highly unrealistic. I only make about one call a day, and I know I've had at least 1-2 lost calls per month for as long as I've been on AT&T. If I had to guess based on my own experience, iPhone's have about a 6% dropped-call rating, but because so many iPhone owners are more data users than call makers it doesn't drag down AT&T's total 3G dropped calls as much as it would if iPhone users were frequent call-makers.
  • Reply 40 of 71
    bushman4bushman4 Posts: 842member
    Instead if ATT acknowledging the problem, ATT continues to be in a state of denial. ATT either doesn't realize the problem ( which is a crock) or just doesn't want to do improve their service,

    FACT IS FACT. Survey after survey has continuously shown that ATT is the worst service in many areas. Its time for a new CEO at ATT or for some action.
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