<strong>I do think that Michelle Kwan is ugly (and I'm Asian), but that's irrelevant to me. I was rooting for Sarah Hughes, because she had more "Olympic Spirit". She was very gracious after her short program even though the judges underrated her performance. She just wanted to skate her best, and wasn't focused on winning a medal. As a result, her performance was gutsy and inspiring. On the other hand, Kwan was extremely obsessed with winning the gold medal, and even booed her technical merit scores during the short program. Not very classy if you ask me. Michelle Kwan is a bad role model and needs to grow up. Winning isn't everything.</strong><hr></blockquote>
couldn't have said it better. for a 16 year old, Sarah Hughes showed a lot more maturity and class than the "veteren" Kwan who has been a stuck up princess for the past 5 years.
<strong>I do think that Michelle Kwan is ugly (and I'm Asian), but that's irrelevant to me. I was rooting for Sarah Hughes, because she had more "Olympic Spirit". She was very gracious after her short program even though the judges underrated her performance. She just wanted to skate her best, and wasn't focused on winning a medal. As a result, her performance was gutsy and inspiring. On the other hand, Kwan was extremely obsessed with winning the gold medal, and even booed her technical merit scores during the short program. Not very classy if you ask me. Michelle Kwan is a bad role model and needs to grow up. Winning isn't everything.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No kidding. Kwan has no presence off the ice, and her on-camera interviews are filled to the brim with FOB-ish grammar errors that make you go hmmm. But that's not the point. Sasha Cohen has a bubbly Olympic Spirit? too, but she didn't even get on the podium. If there was a 3rd set of marks for attitude, sure, Cohen and Hughes would be on top.
But that's not how skating is judged. And in the short program, even the commentators pointed out Kwan's technical marks were pretty low...a flurry of 5.7s and even a 5.5, for a routine that saw basically mistakes. Cohen's marks in the short were low too...5.6s!
Plus the 'boo' was purely light-hearted...and you've got to expect the worst from kids raised by ball-and-chain Asian parents, you know. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Even then, Kwan knows winning isn't everything. She cried in Nagano but she didn't cry in Salt Lake today. This entire facet of this dispute is just a detour. You don't get points for having the Eternal Spirit Olympic Flame?® If that was true you'd see that Nepalese nordic skiier win gold. You'd see the Indian luger on TIME magazine brandishing his medal. Georg Hackl would have won gold again. It's not like Kwan through down her flag and started digging he skates in the ice like that Korean guy...or Amy van dyken spitting into the lane of Inge de Bruijn at the Sydney games.
I think applenut's just mad because I dissed Sarah, a New Yorker
But that's not how skating is judged. And in the short program, even the commentators pointed out Kwan's technical marks were pretty low...a flurry of 5.7s and even a 5.5, for a routine that saw basically mistakes. Cohen's marks in the short were low too...5.6s!<hr></blockquote>
Kwan came out on top in the short program. You can't complain about points in the short program when you win it. She had better marks than everyone else.
personally, I don't even see the point of the short program if its not going to be waited equally to the long.
Cohen looked like a robot in the short program. it was like she was skatng to connect the dats making sure she did each and everything thing she planned. there was no flow. for the long program she loosened up.
she has great potential for 2006.
[quote]
I think applenut's just mad because I dissed Sarah, a New Yorker <hr></blockquote>
Not mad. I'm dissapointed in you for ruining a thread with prepubescent remarks that have no relation to the topic at hand and make you look like a fool.
Of course you can complain. I'm sure Canadians all over complained heavily today when their women's team got the short end of 10 power-plays, 8 of which were probably bad calls. Still, Canada won the gold for Women's Ice Hockey, but there's a lot to complain about. And do you think Jamie Sale and David Pelletier are just happy campers now that they've got their gold medals?
No sane person would argue that Hughes or Slutskaya are more artistic than Cohen or Kwan. Neither Hughes or Slutskaya have 'signature' moves. 17 year-old Cohen has the split, lay-back, forward glide and the "Sasha Spin" (the one where she pulls her leg straight up with her arms while in a spin.) Kwan has the "Pure Joy" S-curve glide with her arms outstretched and one leg in the air. Kwan also has some of the best spirals in the business...not as fast as Cohen's but generally much more intricate.
I follow skating pretty religiously since Albertville, so I think I have some perspective on the sport.
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>
Not mad. I'm dissapointed in you for ruining a thread with prepubescent remarks that have no relation to the topic at hand and make you look like a fool.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nanny nanny boo boo. I am rubber and my daddy can beat up your daddy, but what am I?
Sarah sucks! Yankees suck! Giuliani sucked! Bergdorf Goodman sucks! The Plaza (or formerly known as) sucks! The Hamptons suck! Natalie Portman sucks! Broadway sucks! New York sucks!
I wasn't a Sarah Hughes fan before she skated. I thought Sasha Cohen was much more graceful, even moreso than Kwan. I guess I wanted Kwan to win the gold medal just for the sake of winning it. However, I think it was apparent that SHE wanted to win the gold more than she wanted to skate, and she couldn't pull it off.
Of the four top skaters, only Hughes skated flawlessly. She was very involved in her performance, not acting nervous, and not consumed with getting a gold medal.
I decided after it was all over that a decision to award the gold to one of the others, who did fall (or almost) would have been wrong. Flexible boy bodies, big honkers, or other attributes that have nothing do with skating notwithstanding!
If there was a 3rd set of marks for attitude, sure, Cohen and Hughes would be on top.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I was trying to say that Hughes' attitude showed up in her performance. She just "went for it." (I sort of sound like a Nike commercial.) Her long program was more difficult than her reknowned competitors, and she didn't make any mistakes. Of couse, I'm not a figure skating expert, and I don't know a triple sow-cow from a triple loop, but that's the way I saw it.
[quote]
<strong>
you've got to expect the worst from kids raised by ball-and-chain Asian parents, you know. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
<strong>Of the four top skaters, only Hughes skated flawlessly. She was very involved in her performance, not acting nervous, and not consumed with getting a gold medal.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Only Hughes skated a technically flawless routine, but both Cohen and Kwan skated more artistic routines. Slutskaya was neither technically explosive tonight, nor artistically driven. All it would have taken to change the leader board completely was one more forward lean on a landing by Slutskaya, by the judges standards. Slutskaya got three 5.9s for artistry and nearly 5.8s across the board for technical merit in a program where Scott Hamilton remarked how slow she was and how she didn't do a triple-triple. Can you believe that?
Oh well! Kwan missed her boat on a fluke, I guess that's why she's handling it much better than Nagano, where the Silver seemed much more tarnished. After her fall, she didn't give up. When the music stopped playing, she had a smile on her face. Of course there's a bit to be consumed by wanting to win the gold medal. When you're the favorite for two Olympics in a row, you're going to feel the pressure to compete.
And of course there was Lillehammer where Kwan was set to go as the alternate until Tonya Harding got a second chance. Of course she really would have had no chance against Oksana Baiul, who leveled the competition (though Gregg disputes that.)
I was trying to say that Hughes' attitude showed up in her performance. She just "went for it." (I sort of sound like a Nike commercial.) Her long program was more difficult than her reknowned competitors, and she didn't make any mistakes. Of couse, I'm not a figure skating expert, and I don't know a triple sow-cow from a triple loop, but that's the way I saw it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I see it as having nothing to lose. Bode Miller did the same thing. He dug himself a hole in the Combined Downhill / Slalom and a Giant Slalom but he went crazy on his last runs for both events and got double silvers.
Or it's like Bakken and Flowers who were completely overshadowed by Racine and Johnson in the Women's Bobsleigh event. They had nothing to lose.
It was Kwan and Slutskaya's gold to lose, perhaps even Cohen's.
<strong>Uh, while we're discussing figure skating...
What's the difference between a triple sow cow, triple loop, triple toe, triple lutz, triple flip, and triple axle?
Thanks in advance!
EDIT: Added more triples.
[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Brian J. ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you jump counter-clockwise:
A Salchow is the easiest jump. You push off on the left skate while on a backward approach and you swing your right leg out to assist the jump.
A Flip is next easiest. I think it's like a Salchow...almost...but without the swing and with a toe pick.
The Toe-Loop is done by skating backward on the right skate. You extend the left leg backward and the kick it forward to assist the jump.
The Lutz is done with the opposite skate as the Toe-Loop but executed similar, since you are taking off with the left foot, it is quite a bit harder. It's the second hardest jump.
The Axel is the hardest. You approach facing forward, so it's actually a half turn more than other jumps. You approach on the left skate.
I don't know for sure what the Loop is, but I assume it's like the Toe Loop without the toe!
EDIT: er duh. all landings for right-legged jumpers are done on the right skate, facing backward.
I think the judges got it right this time. Slutskya was better than Kwan, but only by a "nose". Sarah Hughes will develop more refined artistry as time goes on. She was the youngest of the top 6 for cryin' out loud. But, on that night, she gave the best performance. (Kind of like Kwan last time, and Nancy before her, eh Eugene?)
[quote]Of course she really would have had no chance against Oksana Baiul, who leveled the competition (though Gregg disputes that.)<hr></blockquote>
Actually, Baiul was behind (2nd place) after the short program and won the long program to tie it up with Kerrigan. But Baiul's artistic scores were higher, so she won gold. It was very close, but it was an awesome skate for her -- she threw in the unexpected triple in the end to make up for a fall in the short program.
Why do I know so much about this? My mother is Ukrainian, and my sister figure skated for years. (I converted her to hockey around '96 though). This was a big deal in my house.
I thought Slutskaya's performance was better than all of them, but that's sort of personal. She seems taller and more co-ordinated than the rest, and just better to watch. Kwan and the rest seem kind of jerky on the ice. Slutskaya is and was a lot more smooth, despite any technical mishaps.
Hughes and that Russian shemale have no artistery whatsoever, especially Sarah Hughes. Not only is she ugly, but I can't stand her period. Did I mention she's fugly! I know that she performed well but I still don't understand how you can move from 4th to 1st like that. I also DO NOT understand how the Russian got better artistic marks than Kwan when she made mistakes and doesn't come close to the artistic merit Kwan displayed. Other than that slip up on a jump, she really countered well and skated a great performance aside from that. Did she slip on the hardest jump? I was surprised but maybe it was so much pressure for this to FINALLY be her time to win gold. Now it's Tara Lipinski all over again. If Slutskaya or whatever the heck her name is really came in 2nd and the judging was unfair, Michelle could've gotten gold. Still can't believe it was only bronze. Also, Sasha Cohen came sooooooooo close to nailing that triple triple (forget what it is called but it was the hardest combo) which could've given her a realistic shot at the whole thing. She skated well in my opinion, good enough to win a medal I felt. Anywayz, I'm just disappointed.....this was Michelle's time and I don't think she can stick around any longer.
[quote]Hughes and that Russian shemale have no artistery whatsoever, especially Sarah Hughes.<hr></blockquote>
[quote]I know that she performed well but I still don't understand how you can move from 4th to 1st like that. I also DO NOT understand how the Russian got better artistic marks than Kwan when she made mistakes and doesn't come close to the artistic merit Kwan displayed. Other than that slip up on a jump, she really countered well and skated a great performance aside from that. Did she slip on the hardest jump? I was surprised but maybe it was so much pressure for this to FINALLY be her time to win gold. Now it's Tara Lipinski all over again. If Slutskaya or whatever the heck her name is really came in 2nd and the judging was unfair, Michelle could've gotten gold. Still can't believe it was only bronze. Also, Sasha Cohen came sooooooooo close to nailing that triple triple (forget what it is called but it was the hardest combo) which could've given her a realistic shot at the whole thing. She skated well in my opinion, good enough to win a medal I felt. Anywayz, I'm just disappointed.....this was Michelle's time and I don't think she can stick around any longer. <hr></blockquote>
<strong>And for those who say Michelle Kwan is ugly, you're probably attracted to Macy Gray or something. Gotta be kidding me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Tiga...I don't know about Cleveland but Seattle on any given Weekend has clubs full of Asian women and many are as good looking or better than Kwan. I do think she's attractive though myself.
[quote] I know that she performed well but I still don't understand how you can move from 4th to 1st like that.<hr></blockquote>
read. You'll learn
[quote]I also DO NOT understand how the Russian got better artistic marks than Kwan when she made mistakes and doesn't come close to the artistic merit Kwan displayed.<hr></blockquote>
Kwan fell on her ass and double footed a landing. she didn't have a challenging skate and didn't do a triple-triple. she did a conservative skate and still couldn't do it perfect.
and how doesn't she come close to the artistic merit? reasons?
[quote]f Slutskaya or whatever the heck her name is really came in 2nd and the judging was unfair, Michelle could've gotten gold.<hr></blockquote>
if anything Slutskaya should have gotten higher marks lass night, not lower.
Comments
<strong>I do think that Michelle Kwan is ugly (and I'm Asian), but that's irrelevant to me. I was rooting for Sarah Hughes, because she had more "Olympic Spirit". She was very gracious after her short program even though the judges underrated her performance. She just wanted to skate her best, and wasn't focused on winning a medal. As a result, her performance was gutsy and inspiring. On the other hand, Kwan was extremely obsessed with winning the gold medal, and even booed her technical merit scores during the short program. Not very classy if you ask me. Michelle Kwan is a bad role model and needs to grow up. Winning isn't everything.</strong><hr></blockquote>
couldn't have said it better. for a 16 year old, Sarah Hughes showed a lot more maturity and class than the "veteren" Kwan who has been a stuck up princess for the past 5 years.
<strong>I do think that Michelle Kwan is ugly (and I'm Asian), but that's irrelevant to me. I was rooting for Sarah Hughes, because she had more "Olympic Spirit". She was very gracious after her short program even though the judges underrated her performance. She just wanted to skate her best, and wasn't focused on winning a medal. As a result, her performance was gutsy and inspiring. On the other hand, Kwan was extremely obsessed with winning the gold medal, and even booed her technical merit scores during the short program. Not very classy if you ask me. Michelle Kwan is a bad role model and needs to grow up. Winning isn't everything.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No kidding. Kwan has no presence off the ice, and her on-camera interviews are filled to the brim with FOB-ish grammar errors that make you go hmmm. But that's not the point. Sasha Cohen has a bubbly Olympic Spirit? too, but she didn't even get on the podium. If there was a 3rd set of marks for attitude, sure, Cohen and Hughes would be on top.
But that's not how skating is judged. And in the short program, even the commentators pointed out Kwan's technical marks were pretty low...a flurry of 5.7s and even a 5.5, for a routine that saw basically mistakes. Cohen's marks in the short were low too...5.6s!
Plus the 'boo' was purely light-hearted...and you've got to expect the worst from kids raised by ball-and-chain Asian parents, you know. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Even then, Kwan knows winning isn't everything. She cried in Nagano but she didn't cry in Salt Lake today. This entire facet of this dispute is just a detour. You don't get points for having the Eternal Spirit Olympic Flame?® If that was true you'd see that Nepalese nordic skiier win gold. You'd see the Indian luger on TIME magazine brandishing his medal. Georg Hackl would have won gold again. It's not like Kwan through down her flag and started digging he skates in the ice like that Korean guy...or Amy van dyken spitting into the lane of Inge de Bruijn at the Sydney games.
I think applenut's just mad because I dissed Sarah, a New Yorker
[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]
[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
But that's not how skating is judged. And in the short program, even the commentators pointed out Kwan's technical marks were pretty low...a flurry of 5.7s and even a 5.5, for a routine that saw basically mistakes. Cohen's marks in the short were low too...5.6s!<hr></blockquote>
Kwan came out on top in the short program. You can't complain about points in the short program when you win it. She had better marks than everyone else.
personally, I don't even see the point of the short program if its not going to be waited equally to the long.
Cohen looked like a robot in the short program. it was like she was skatng to connect the dats making sure she did each and everything thing she planned. there was no flow. for the long program she loosened up.
she has great potential for 2006.
[quote]
I think applenut's just mad because I dissed Sarah, a New Yorker <hr></blockquote>
Not mad. I'm dissapointed in you for ruining a thread with prepubescent remarks that have no relation to the topic at hand and make you look like a fool.
No sane person would argue that Hughes or Slutskaya are more artistic than Cohen or Kwan. Neither Hughes or Slutskaya have 'signature' moves. 17 year-old Cohen has the split, lay-back, forward glide and the "Sasha Spin" (the one where she pulls her leg straight up with her arms while in a spin.) Kwan has the "Pure Joy" S-curve glide with her arms outstretched and one leg in the air. Kwan also has some of the best spirals in the business...not as fast as Cohen's but generally much more intricate.
I follow skating pretty religiously since Albertville, so I think I have some perspective on the sport.
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>
Not mad. I'm dissapointed in you for ruining a thread with prepubescent remarks that have no relation to the topic at hand and make you look like a fool.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nanny nanny boo boo. I am rubber and my daddy can beat up your daddy, but what am I?
Sarah sucks! Yankees suck! Giuliani sucked! Bergdorf Goodman sucks! The Plaza (or formerly known as) sucks! The Hamptons suck! Natalie Portman sucks! Broadway sucks! New York sucks!
[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
Of the four top skaters, only Hughes skated flawlessly. She was very involved in her performance, not acting nervous, and not consumed with getting a gold medal.
I decided after it was all over that a decision to award the gold to one of the others, who did fall (or almost) would have been wrong. Flexible boy bodies, big honkers, or other attributes that have nothing do with skating notwithstanding!
<strong>
If there was a 3rd set of marks for attitude, sure, Cohen and Hughes would be on top.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I was trying to say that Hughes' attitude showed up in her performance. She just "went for it." (I sort of sound like a Nike commercial.) Her long program was more difficult than her reknowned competitors, and she didn't make any mistakes. Of couse, I'm not a figure skating expert, and I don't know a triple sow-cow from a triple loop, but that's the way I saw it.
[quote]
<strong>
you've got to expect the worst from kids raised by ball-and-chain Asian parents, you know. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, tell me about it.
<strong>Of the four top skaters, only Hughes skated flawlessly. She was very involved in her performance, not acting nervous, and not consumed with getting a gold medal.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Only Hughes skated a technically flawless routine, but both Cohen and Kwan skated more artistic routines. Slutskaya was neither technically explosive tonight, nor artistically driven. All it would have taken to change the leader board completely was one more forward lean on a landing by Slutskaya, by the judges standards. Slutskaya got three 5.9s for artistry and nearly 5.8s across the board for technical merit in a program where Scott Hamilton remarked how slow she was and how she didn't do a triple-triple. Can you believe that?
Oh well! Kwan missed her boat on a fluke, I guess that's why she's handling it much better than Nagano, where the Silver seemed much more tarnished. After her fall, she didn't give up. When the music stopped playing, she had a smile on her face. Of course there's a bit to be consumed by wanting to win the gold medal. When you're the favorite for two Olympics in a row, you're going to feel the pressure to compete.
And of course there was Lillehammer where Kwan was set to go as the alternate until Tonya Harding got a second chance. Of course she really would have had no chance against Oksana Baiul, who leveled the competition (though Gregg disputes that.)
[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
<strong>
I was trying to say that Hughes' attitude showed up in her performance. She just "went for it." (I sort of sound like a Nike commercial.) Her long program was more difficult than her reknowned competitors, and she didn't make any mistakes. Of couse, I'm not a figure skating expert, and I don't know a triple sow-cow from a triple loop, but that's the way I saw it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I see it as having nothing to lose. Bode Miller did the same thing. He dug himself a hole in the Combined Downhill / Slalom and a Giant Slalom but he went crazy on his last runs for both events and got double silvers.
Or it's like Bakken and Flowers who were completely overshadowed by Racine and Johnson in the Women's Bobsleigh event. They had nothing to lose.
It was Kwan and Slutskaya's gold to lose, perhaps even Cohen's.
What's the difference between a triple sow cow, triple loop, triple toe, triple lutz, triple flip, and triple axle?
Thanks in advance!
EDIT: Added more triples.
[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Brian J. ]</p>
<strong>Uh, while we're discussing figure skating...
What's the difference between a triple sow cow, triple loop, triple toe, triple lutz, triple flip, and triple axle?
Thanks in advance!
EDIT: Added more triples.
[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Brian J. ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you jump counter-clockwise:
A Salchow is the easiest jump. You push off on the left skate while on a backward approach and you swing your right leg out to assist the jump.
A Flip is next easiest. I think it's like a Salchow...almost...but without the swing and with a toe pick.
The Toe-Loop is done by skating backward on the right skate. You extend the left leg backward and the kick it forward to assist the jump.
The Lutz is done with the opposite skate as the Toe-Loop but executed similar, since you are taking off with the left foot, it is quite a bit harder. It's the second hardest jump.
The Axel is the hardest. You approach facing forward, so it's actually a half turn more than other jumps. You approach on the left skate.
I don't know for sure what the Loop is, but I assume it's like the Toe Loop without the toe!
EDIT: er duh. all landings for right-legged jumpers are done on the right skate, facing backward.
[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
Actually, Baiul was behind (2nd place) after the short program and won the long program to tie it up with Kerrigan. But Baiul's artistic scores were higher, so she won gold. It was very close, but it was an awesome skate for her -- she threw in the unexpected triple in the end to make up for a fall in the short program.
Why do I know so much about this? My mother is Ukrainian, and my sister figure skated for years. (I converted her to hockey around '96 though). This was a big deal in my house.
I thought Slutskaya's performance was better than all of them, but that's sort of personal. She seems taller and more co-ordinated than the rest, and just better to watch. Kwan and the rest seem kind of jerky on the ice. Slutskaya is and was a lot more smooth, despite any technical mishaps.
Hu hu hu hu He said Slut hu hu hu hu
[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: TigerWoods99 ]</p>
[quote]I know that she performed well but I still don't understand how you can move from 4th to 1st like that. I also DO NOT understand how the Russian got better artistic marks than Kwan when she made mistakes and doesn't come close to the artistic merit Kwan displayed. Other than that slip up on a jump, she really countered well and skated a great performance aside from that. Did she slip on the hardest jump? I was surprised but maybe it was so much pressure for this to FINALLY be her time to win gold. Now it's Tara Lipinski all over again. If Slutskaya or whatever the heck her name is really came in 2nd and the judging was unfair, Michelle could've gotten gold. Still can't believe it was only bronze. Also, Sasha Cohen came sooooooooo close to nailing that triple triple (forget what it is called but it was the hardest combo) which could've given her a realistic shot at the whole thing. She skated well in my opinion, good enough to win a medal I felt. Anywayz, I'm just disappointed.....this was Michelle's time and I don't think she can stick around any longer.
Exactly.
[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
<strong>And for those who say Michelle Kwan is ugly, you're probably attracted to Macy Gray or something. Gotta be kidding me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Tiga...I don't know about Cleveland but Seattle on any given Weekend has clubs full of Asian women and many are as good looking or better than Kwan. I do think she's attractive though myself.
read. You'll learn
[quote]I also DO NOT understand how the Russian got better artistic marks than Kwan when she made mistakes and doesn't come close to the artistic merit Kwan displayed.<hr></blockquote>
Kwan fell on her ass and double footed a landing. she didn't have a challenging skate and didn't do a triple-triple. she did a conservative skate and still couldn't do it perfect.
and how doesn't she come close to the artistic merit? reasons?
[quote]f Slutskaya or whatever the heck her name is really came in 2nd and the judging was unfair, Michelle could've gotten gold.<hr></blockquote>
if anything Slutskaya should have gotten higher marks lass night, not lower.
[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: applenut ]</p>