Hard to say. According to the media, millions are waiting. According to the Apple Insider forum, few will switch because AT&T's service is terrific, just like the outside antenna that picks it up.
I think that we need to drop the whole "troll" moniker and assign commenters who are continuously fixated like this to a merrier role - like "court jester" - perhaps. That way they can continue to be rude and vulgar and contrary - and the rest of us can enjoy it as humorous nonsense instead a badly delivered attempt at derision. We could even have a little jester hat to flag with - instead of, or in addition to the ignore list!
That is the point I just addressed with my South Korea example. The iPhone will only work on their 3G network. There is no fall back to their ‘2G’ network as it’s CDMA with no GSM. But that isn’t an issue as their UMTS offers full coverage. Hence, for those making an argument that CDMA supports x-many subscribers is an erroneous metric as the ‘3G’ subscriber base is what should be measured.
I must not be following you. There are a multitude of areas where no 3G is available even if S. Korea is not one of them as you state (brings up another question... why does S. Korea have CDMA if they are fully covered by 3G UMTS?). I guess where I was going with this is all phones need 2G capability. Can you imagine how useless an iPhone would be in the USA if it didn't have 2G? Regardless, there are boatloads of CDMA-based phones sold outside of the USA and so that would have to suggest there's a market for a non-Verizon, non-Sprint CDMA iPhone.
I think that we need to drop the whole "troll" moniker and assign commenters who are continuously fixated like this to a merrier role - like "court jester" - perhaps. That way they can continue to be rude and vulgar and contrary - and the rest of us can enjoy it as humorous nonsense instead a badly delivered attempt at derision. We could even have a little jester hat to flag with - instead of, or in addition to the ignore list!
I'll gladly drop AT&T to get a Verizon iPhone, and gladly pay the $350 penalty to leave. I'm in Utah ...
I'm in Utah as well and have had the opposite experience. I gladly changed from Verizon to ATT when the iPhone came out. Verizon had been nothing but bad reception, bad customer service (ALWAYS charged for extra things that I didn't want - every month!) and dropped calls for the obligatory 2 years (to get a crappy free phone) I was with them. ATT has been much better for me, and I would not go back to Verizon for any reason.
I must not be following you. There are a multitude of areas where no 3G is available even if S. Korea is not one of them as you state (brings up another question... why does S. Korea have CDMA if they are fully covered by 3G UMTS?). I guess where I was going with this is all phones need 2G capability. Can you imagine how useless an iPhone would be in the USA if it didn't have 2G? Regardless, there are boatloads of CDMA-based phones sold outside of the USA and so that would have to suggest there's a market for a non-Verizon, non-Sprint CDMA iPhone.
I have no idea what point you are getting at. It?s possible they have plenty of CDMA-only phones on their network or that they haven?t decommissioned their CDMA network yet or some other reason. Regardless, it?s moot to the point I made. I guess we could also ask why any network offers ?2G? in areas they have ?3G?.
Fact: The iPhone only has GSM and UMTS cellular radios.
Fact: The S. Korean iPhone does not have CDMA for ?2G? and UMTS for ?3G?.
Fact: The iPhone does not have CDMA or CDMA2000 cellular radios.
Fact: The iPhone is highly successful in S. Korea.
Based on the comments you are making it sounds like you don?t think the iPhone could function or flourish there, yet it has. Hence my point that using only the CDMA subscribers as a metric for determining the value of a CDMA-based iPhone is erroneous when there are plenty of networks that ONLY use CDMA for ?2G? and UMTS for ?3G?.
PS: Are you expecting a CDMA/UMTS iPhone to arrive alongside a CDMA/CDM2000? I don?t see that as needed and wouldn?t bet on that happening when a GSM/UMTS iPhone has proven to more than sufficient on networks with CDMA/UMTS.
I think that we need to drop the whole "troll" moniker and assign commenters who are continuously fixated like this to a merrier role - like "court jester" - perhaps. That way they can continue to be rude and vulgar and contrary - and the rest of us can enjoy it as humorous nonsense instead a badly delivered attempt at derision. We could even have a little jester hat to flag with - instead of, or in addition to the ignore list!
Did I say something rude and vulgar and contrary? If I did then I missed it. If you have an issue with something specific I said, then let's discuss it. That's the point of this forum. Otherwise you are the one who is rude with your intolerance of other opinions.
Oh, and if you want to call me a court jester, thats fine. So long as you don't call me a fanboi.
No one what-so-ever outside of the US. GSM is the world standard. Even in places that use CDMA, the iPhone tends to be available on UTMS/HSDPA (the GSM 3G standard.) Really, Apple will pick up some users in the US, but outside of the US the validity of a CDMA device is pretty shakey. We don't even *have* CDMA networks in Europe. Your CDMA phones are therefore "pretty" bricks.
True, but already today roughly 2/3 of Americans have CDMA phones which are also "pretty bricks" when they travel overseas. So if it doesn't matter to them now, why would it matter to them with an iPhone. (And in fact, an iPhone would be more than just a brick because you still have wi-fi they can use in all of your internet cafes you have everywhere! )
Apple is risking iPhone sales here in the U.S. to either plateau or drop some next year. With ATT not only offering early upgrades but also introducing tiered data plans will have potential new customers considering other options when before it was a no brainer. How many people will spend the extra money for an early upgrade next year. I'd love an iPhone on VZW but I think the obvious choice would be T-Mobile.
While a Verizon iPhone would help sales, I don't know if Apple and Verizon can come to an agreement. Verizon loves to load up their garbage on phones. CDMA versions could be for China/Sprint.
Agreed, but I think Verizon has learned its lesson in the last 3-4 years....Verizon is another example of short-sighted CEO missing the boat!
I think that we need to drop the whole "troll" moniker and assign commenters who are continuously fixated like this to a merrier role - like "court jester" - perhaps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by russgriz
Brilliant!
Umm, no he wasn't actually, but how could you know that.
Mr. Russgriz, if you want to take a dig at me go ahead. Just make it your own dig, don't take a free ride on Blackmore.
You are the worst kind of poster here. You sit back and wait until someone takes a back handed slap at someone and then cheers from the sideline like you're one of the gang.
This is supposed to be a forum for meaningful discussion. I find nothing of value in either your post or that of Blackless. Unless you meant to say it would be "brilliant" of Apple to build a CDMA phone. Is that what you meant sir?
No one what-so-ever outside of the US. GSM is the world standard. Even in places that use CDMA, the iPhone tends to be available on UTMS/HSDPA (the GSM 3G standard.) Really, Apple will pick up some users in the US, but outside of the US the validity of a CDMA device is pretty shakey. We don't even *have* CDMA networks in Europe. Your CDMA phones are therefore "pretty" bricks.
You mention the fact that you can't use your CDMA phone in Europe, and that's true. But unless you want to pay massive roaming charges to AT&T or jailbreak your iPhone, you might as well have a CDMA iPhone right now, because the solution is the same: get a disposable prepaid phone in Europe once you get there.
Here's the situation in the US with the iPhone. Android is doing very well and Apple needs to counter that. Verizon and Sprint together are around 130 million people or so. There are also other markets around the world that Apple could tap with a CDMA iPhone. If we had a decent GSM network in the US, then maybe Apple could get away with just AT&T. But we don't. I can personally tell you that it is maddening to try to use your "smart" phone and feel like a dumb ass walking or even driving around trying to get a signal.
Apple is risking iPhone sales here in the U.S. to either plateau or drop some next year. With ATT not only offering early upgrades but also introducing tiered data plans will have potential new customers considering other options when before it was a no brainer. How many people will spend the extra money for an early upgrade next year. I'd love an iPhone on VZW but I think the obvious choice would be T-Mobile.
What part of "exclusivity agreement" don't you and the other clueless blatherer's understand anyway? I'd really like to know what goes on in your mind. Nobody knows for sure how long the original agreement with at&t was nor when it will expire. So pontificating about what U.S. carriers Apple should add and when seems idiotic at best.
Apples inability to get the white iPhone 4 out is a bad joke. Don't announce something that you can't ship!
Why not? At least they are trying to produce them. Most tech companies announce their competition to the iPhone when they haven't even gotten their products out of the research phase, which they then never really get finished with anyway. At least Apple really is in production with them.
What part of "exclusivity agreement" don't you and the other clueless blatherer's understand anyway? I'd really like to know what goes on in your mind. Nobody knows for sure how long the original agreement with at&t was nor when it will expire. So pontificating about what U.S. carriers Apple should add and when seems idiotic at best.
Is pontificating that Apple can't get out of the contract any less idiotic?
Agreed, but I think Verizon has learned its lesson in the last 3-4 years....Verizon is another example of short-sighted CEO missing the boat!
And what lesson is that? They're still the #1 carrier although not by much and doing quite well selling the line of Droid phones. And for the record VZW did not turn down the iPhone, the two sides just didn't give into the other's demands. Apple and VZW turned each other down.
Umm, no he wasn't actually, but how could you know that.
Mr. Russgriz, if you want to take a dig at me go ahead. Just make it your own dig, don't take a free ride on Blackmore.
You are the worst kind of poster here. You sit back and wait until someone takes a back handed slap at someone and then cheers from the sideline like you're one of the gang.
This is supposed to be a forum for meaningful discussion. I find nothing of value in either your post or that of Blackless. Unless you meant to say it would be "brilliant" of Apple to build a CDMA phone. Is that what you meant sir?
You know nothing about me yet you make an awful lot of assumptions. I find humor in Blackmore's idea of a sort of "tiered rating sytem" for posters. I said nothing about you, yet you said a mouthfull about me. Perhaps you could join the fun and make up a moniker for me? Go ahead, I can take it.
Otherwise, relax. Or did someone hit a nerve with you?
Did AAPL ever settle with VZN the argument over AAPL's not allowing a VZN logo on an iPhone?
Or controlling the repairs and call center for the device. I'm sure there are other issues, like Verizon apps as native and non-removable, and getting a kickback from all iTunes Store and App Store purchases made over their network.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash
Is pontificating that Apple can't get out of the contract any less idiotic?
Anyone can get out of a contract, the point of it is to make it more viable to remain in it. If Apple is still selling all the iPhones it can make then what is the point of breaking the contract with AT&T early to add another US carrier? That would likely be a financially stupid move. I trust both Apple and AT&T to work in ways to benefit their bottom line, not reduce it.
What part of "exclusivity agreement" don't you and the other clueless blatherer's understand anyway? I'd really like to know what goes on in your mind. Nobody knows for sure how long the original agreement with at&t was nor when it will expire. So pontificating about what U.S. carriers Apple should add and when seems idiotic at best.
I'm just commenting on the topic and offering my opinion which I do have the right to do. I'm speculating just like everyone else. Yes I understand there's an "exclusivity agreement" and no we don't know when it's going to expire or even what's going to happen when it does. Apple is in no way shape or form obligated to go to another carrier but eventually when everyone that's going to get an iPhone has one Apple will have to go multi carrier to increase sales. How's that for idiotic?
Comments
Hard to say. According to the media, millions are waiting. According to the Apple Insider forum, few will switch because AT&T's service is terrific, just like the outside antenna that picks it up.
I think that we need to drop the whole "troll" moniker and assign commenters who are continuously fixated like this to a merrier role - like "court jester" - perhaps. That way they can continue to be rude and vulgar and contrary - and the rest of us can enjoy it as humorous nonsense instead a badly delivered attempt at derision. We could even have a little jester hat to flag with - instead of, or in addition to the ignore list!
That is the point I just addressed with my South Korea example. The iPhone will only work on their 3G network. There is no fall back to their ‘2G’ network as it’s CDMA with no GSM. But that isn’t an issue as their UMTS offers full coverage. Hence, for those making an argument that CDMA supports x-many subscribers is an erroneous metric as the ‘3G’ subscriber base is what should be measured.
I must not be following you. There are a multitude of areas where no 3G is available even if S. Korea is not one of them as you state (brings up another question... why does S. Korea have CDMA if they are fully covered by 3G UMTS?). I guess where I was going with this is all phones need 2G capability. Can you imagine how useless an iPhone would be in the USA if it didn't have 2G? Regardless, there are boatloads of CDMA-based phones sold outside of the USA and so that would have to suggest there's a market for a non-Verizon, non-Sprint CDMA iPhone.
I think that we need to drop the whole "troll" moniker and assign commenters who are continuously fixated like this to a merrier role - like "court jester" - perhaps. That way they can continue to be rude and vulgar and contrary - and the rest of us can enjoy it as humorous nonsense instead a badly delivered attempt at derision. We could even have a little jester hat to flag with - instead of, or in addition to the ignore list!
Brilliant!
I'll gladly drop AT&T to get a Verizon iPhone, and gladly pay the $350 penalty to leave. I'm in Utah ...
I'm in Utah as well and have had the opposite experience. I gladly changed from Verizon to ATT when the iPhone came out. Verizon had been nothing but bad reception, bad customer service (ALWAYS charged for extra things that I didn't want - every month!) and dropped calls for the obligatory 2 years (to get a crappy free phone) I was with them. ATT has been much better for me, and I would not go back to Verizon for any reason.
I must not be following you. There are a multitude of areas where no 3G is available even if S. Korea is not one of them as you state (brings up another question... why does S. Korea have CDMA if they are fully covered by 3G UMTS?). I guess where I was going with this is all phones need 2G capability. Can you imagine how useless an iPhone would be in the USA if it didn't have 2G? Regardless, there are boatloads of CDMA-based phones sold outside of the USA and so that would have to suggest there's a market for a non-Verizon, non-Sprint CDMA iPhone.
I have no idea what point you are getting at. It?s possible they have plenty of CDMA-only phones on their network or that they haven?t decommissioned their CDMA network yet or some other reason. Regardless, it?s moot to the point I made. I guess we could also ask why any network offers ?2G? in areas they have ?3G?.Based on the comments you are making it sounds like you don?t think the iPhone could function or flourish there, yet it has. Hence my point that using only the CDMA subscribers as a metric for determining the value of a CDMA-based iPhone is erroneous when there are plenty of networks that ONLY use CDMA for ?2G? and UMTS for ?3G?.
PS: Are you expecting a CDMA/UMTS iPhone to arrive alongside a CDMA/CDM2000? I don?t see that as needed and wouldn?t bet on that happening when a GSM/UMTS iPhone has proven to more than sufficient on networks with CDMA/UMTS.
I think that we need to drop the whole "troll" moniker and assign commenters who are continuously fixated like this to a merrier role - like "court jester" - perhaps. That way they can continue to be rude and vulgar and contrary - and the rest of us can enjoy it as humorous nonsense instead a badly delivered attempt at derision. We could even have a little jester hat to flag with - instead of, or in addition to the ignore list!
Did I say something rude and vulgar and contrary? If I did then I missed it. If you have an issue with something specific I said, then let's discuss it. That's the point of this forum. Otherwise you are the one who is rude with your intolerance of other opinions.
Oh, and if you want to call me a court jester, thats fine. So long as you don't call me a fanboi.
No one what-so-ever outside of the US. GSM is the world standard. Even in places that use CDMA, the iPhone tends to be available on UTMS/HSDPA (the GSM 3G standard.) Really, Apple will pick up some users in the US, but outside of the US the validity of a CDMA device is pretty shakey. We don't even *have* CDMA networks in Europe. Your CDMA phones are therefore "pretty" bricks.
True, but already today roughly 2/3 of Americans have CDMA phones which are also "pretty bricks" when they travel overseas. So if it doesn't matter to them now, why would it matter to them with an iPhone. (And in fact, an iPhone would be more than just a brick because you still have wi-fi they can use in all of your internet cafes you have everywhere!
While a Verizon iPhone would help sales, I don't know if Apple and Verizon can come to an agreement. Verizon loves to load up their garbage on phones. CDMA versions could be for China/Sprint.
Agreed, but I think Verizon has learned its lesson in the last 3-4 years....Verizon is another example of short-sighted CEO missing the boat!
I think that we need to drop the whole "troll" moniker and assign commenters who are continuously fixated like this to a merrier role - like "court jester" - perhaps.
Brilliant!
Umm, no he wasn't actually, but how could you know that.
Mr. Russgriz, if you want to take a dig at me go ahead. Just make it your own dig, don't take a free ride on Blackmore.
You are the worst kind of poster here. You sit back and wait until someone takes a back handed slap at someone and then cheers from the sideline like you're one of the gang.
This is supposed to be a forum for meaningful discussion. I find nothing of value in either your post or that of Blackless. Unless you meant to say it would be "brilliant" of Apple to build a CDMA phone. Is that what you meant sir?
No one what-so-ever outside of the US. GSM is the world standard. Even in places that use CDMA, the iPhone tends to be available on UTMS/HSDPA (the GSM 3G standard.) Really, Apple will pick up some users in the US, but outside of the US the validity of a CDMA device is pretty shakey. We don't even *have* CDMA networks in Europe. Your CDMA phones are therefore "pretty" bricks.
You mention the fact that you can't use your CDMA phone in Europe, and that's true. But unless you want to pay massive roaming charges to AT&T or jailbreak your iPhone, you might as well have a CDMA iPhone right now, because the solution is the same: get a disposable prepaid phone in Europe once you get there.
Here's the situation in the US with the iPhone. Android is doing very well and Apple needs to counter that. Verizon and Sprint together are around 130 million people or so. There are also other markets around the world that Apple could tap with a CDMA iPhone. If we had a decent GSM network in the US, then maybe Apple could get away with just AT&T. But we don't. I can personally tell you that it is maddening to try to use your "smart" phone and feel like a dumb ass walking or even driving around trying to get a signal.
Apple is risking iPhone sales here in the U.S. to either plateau or drop some next year. With ATT not only offering early upgrades but also introducing tiered data plans will have potential new customers considering other options when before it was a no brainer. How many people will spend the extra money for an early upgrade next year. I'd love an iPhone on VZW but I think the obvious choice would be T-Mobile.
What part of "exclusivity agreement" don't you and the other clueless blatherer's understand anyway? I'd really like to know what goes on in your mind. Nobody knows for sure how long the original agreement with at&t was nor when it will expire. So pontificating about what U.S. carriers Apple should add and when seems idiotic at best.
Apples inability to get the white iPhone 4 out is a bad joke. Don't announce something that you can't ship!
Why not? At least they are trying to produce them. Most tech companies announce their competition to the iPhone when they haven't even gotten their products out of the research phase, which they then never really get finished with anyway. At least Apple really is in production with them.
What part of "exclusivity agreement" don't you and the other clueless blatherer's understand anyway? I'd really like to know what goes on in your mind. Nobody knows for sure how long the original agreement with at&t was nor when it will expire. So pontificating about what U.S. carriers Apple should add and when seems idiotic at best.
Is pontificating that Apple can't get out of the contract any less idiotic?
Agreed, but I think Verizon has learned its lesson in the last 3-4 years....Verizon is another example of short-sighted CEO missing the boat!
And what lesson is that? They're still the #1 carrier although not by much and doing quite well selling the line of Droid phones. And for the record VZW did not turn down the iPhone, the two sides just didn't give into the other's demands. Apple and VZW turned each other down.
Nobody knows for sure how long the original agreement with at&t was nor when it will expire.
And I believe that includes you amongst those who do not know. Or do you know?
Umm, no he wasn't actually, but how could you know that.
Mr. Russgriz, if you want to take a dig at me go ahead. Just make it your own dig, don't take a free ride on Blackmore.
You are the worst kind of poster here. You sit back and wait until someone takes a back handed slap at someone and then cheers from the sideline like you're one of the gang.
This is supposed to be a forum for meaningful discussion. I find nothing of value in either your post or that of Blackless. Unless you meant to say it would be "brilliant" of Apple to build a CDMA phone. Is that what you meant sir?
You know nothing about me yet you make an awful lot of assumptions. I find humor in Blackmore's idea of a sort of "tiered rating sytem" for posters. I said nothing about you, yet you said a mouthfull about me. Perhaps you could join the fun and make up a moniker for me? Go ahead, I can take it.
Otherwise, relax. Or did someone hit a nerve with you?
Did AAPL ever settle with VZN the argument over AAPL's not allowing a VZN logo on an iPhone?
Or controlling the repairs and call center for the device. I'm sure there are other issues, like Verizon apps as native and non-removable, and getting a kickback from all iTunes Store and App Store purchases made over their network.
Is pontificating that Apple can't get out of the contract any less idiotic?
Anyone can get out of a contract, the point of it is to make it more viable to remain in it. If Apple is still selling all the iPhones it can make then what is the point of breaking the contract with AT&T early to add another US carrier? That would likely be a financially stupid move. I trust both Apple and AT&T to work in ways to benefit their bottom line, not reduce it.
What part of "exclusivity agreement" don't you and the other clueless blatherer's understand anyway? I'd really like to know what goes on in your mind. Nobody knows for sure how long the original agreement with at&t was nor when it will expire. So pontificating about what U.S. carriers Apple should add and when seems idiotic at best.
I'm just commenting on the topic and offering my opinion which I do have the right to do. I'm speculating just like everyone else. Yes I understand there's an "exclusivity agreement" and no we don't know when it's going to expire or even what's going to happen when it does. Apple is in no way shape or form obligated to go to another carrier but eventually when everyone that's going to get an iPhone has one Apple will have to go multi carrier to increase sales. How's that for idiotic?