I think a lot of people would agree with me when i say I think Apple as addressed the idea of the Netbook in the iPad. The problem I have with that, is that it lacks a physical keyboard that's portable and works in your lap. I hear you man about afford-ability, but Apple is known to be a company that doesn't make products that are affordable to the masses of users that can't afford a $1000 laptop for surfing the web. They have a 20% market share with Macs. Plus they don't make Crap products, no to say the competition is crap, but Apple products work from day one and continue to work for years. Most of the competition cannot claim that. So you pay for quality. I too wish the Air would have priced out in the $499 range and the iPad in the $299 range, but that's a pipe-dream and will never happen now that Apple has locked in their prices, as they always do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by strobe
Apple doesn't make a netbook because they suffer a lack of confidence in their ability to dramatically grow the Mac market, and instead worry about cannibalizing sales.
Here's a question. COULD Apple make a Netbook? Nobody here would doubt it! So why don't they?
It would be the portable mini to their MacBook. The same form factor as the 11" Air, but with compromises made to make it more easily affordable, especially for switchers who already have PCs. Sure, it wouldn't encode HD videos as fast, but most Netbook users are "english majors" and so on who just need to browse the web or use Office to write papers.
We know a Netbook can run Snow Leopard very well BECAUSE IT ALREADY DOES! Safari runs brilliantly, and can even play 1080P videos given the GPU. Hell, even using flash video players. It works today, and the hardware costs under half to under a quarter as much.
Why do people buy Netbooks? Are they unsophisticated barbarians who can't appreciate an $8 biscotti? I submit they don't need a $1000+ laptop to surf the web or run Quicken, so why pay that much?
But no, instead Apple shuns an entire market because they lack the confidence to own it despite having the ability. Instead they spend millions in R&D to cater to a very, very small niche market. Maybe it's because Steve wouldn't use a Netbook, and thus nobody should.
Or maybe I'm full of shit and there is no market for such a product. I suspect otherwise given the Netbook phenomenon, however.
I was about to be all over that 11", but no SD card slot... I wonder why (obviously size) they would concede that? Looks like I'll have to consider the 13".
Tell me about it... Do I i stick with my work dell 4200 with its slow SSD, absolutely godawful keyboard, but has sd slot, or do i dump it, and go with the 11.6" macbookair, and be stuck with (more) dongles.
I'm amazed with the tone of half of the posts on here. While it's completely fine and appropriate to critique Apple where one sees the need for improvement, half of the posters reacted to this press conference like it's a personal affront to you. As if Steve presented the new MBAs, and then punched you in the face, gave you the finger and said, "HAHAHA! I knew exactly what you wanted, and I'm not gonna give it to you, so screw you!!!"
I think Apple is very well aware that the MBA is not gonna suit everyone's needs, which is why they also have the MacBook line and the MacBook Pro line; as well as iMac, Mac mini and Mac Pro. Now, if along with ?We think it?s the future of notebooks,? Steve had said "Because we think this is the only notebook you will ever need, we will be shutting down our MacBook and MacBook Pro lines," then people here would have legitimate complaints about the MBA not having enough storage or being underpowered, etc.
Those complaining about lack of 3G?where exactly did Apple actually promise 3G in the MBA? Microsoft and others in the industry have a nasty habit of promising products with fantastic features, and then being unable to deliver on those promises. Apple has chosen not to do that. They don't "pre-announce" hardware products to come "some time in the future". They like the drama and "wow" factor of springing something new on the world. So this whole "I'm mad at Apple because they didn't include 3G in the MBA" is kinda moot since they never promised it in the first place, and because there are other ways to get 3G.
For one you obvious missed the keynote, because SJ answers just about all your questions, except for the 3G/GPS one, but I think that's obvious. Even though I too would like to see some 3G added as an options in the future. As far as the touch screen is concerned. SJ answered that question by saying that after testing, they found that touch screens don't work on a vertical surface and causes too much fatigue when using in extended periods of time (his words paraphrased, not mine).
Personally, after thinking about this device last night, I kind of question SJ's logic about this device being the bastard love child of the iPad and the MBP as well as you did. It's really more Mac than iPad. They learned a lot about how to build hardware thin and light from the iPad/phone/pod and incorporated it into the MBA, but that's where the comparisons end. There is nothing iOS about the new MBA. Sure when Lion comes out we will have Apps, but those Apps won't sync to iOS devices. So there's nothing genuinely iOS about the MBA. I think that is turely the only aspect of the new MBA that is a fail. And, I think they could have made the product more affordable to the masses is they did make an iOS Laptop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by benalexe
Steve said this is like the ipad and macbook combined.
Not even close- It it were than there would be a 3g radio built in and maybe a GPS. How about a touch screen.
I currently have a macbookpro 13" That is my primary computer. I am considering an IPAD as my walk around machine.
This new mcabook is under powered, under storage, and the battery life is unimpressive.
Thank you! Wish you had commented yesterday, would have shut a lot of people up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
i think you (and actually several other people in the thread) are conflating several remarks from Jobs, several years apart.
Two years ago, during an earnings conference call (and near the beginning of the recession), he said this in a response to a question about cutting Mac prices to be more competitive:
During the same conference call he was asked specifically about netbooks and said that Apple was taking a "wait and see" attitude and that they had "some interesting ideas" about the segment.
And then earlier this year, during the introduction of the iPad he dismissed netbooks as slow, having poor quality screens and being burdened with Windows software.
I think in general most people understand that "netbook" is shorthand for "cheap little laptop that cuts a lot of corners to sell you something for under $300" and it's obvious why Jobs would have no interest in that idea. And then the idea is further muddied by "netbooks" that keep getting bigger and more expensive, until it's unclear why we are obliged to call them netbooks and not cheap laptops.
So any idea that Apple or Jobs have reversed course with regards to "netbooks" is unfounded, IMO.
We are not mad that Apple reneged on any promise, and we are not mad at SJ for raising the Middle Finger. We're mad because 3G on an Ultra-portable is something of a given when looking at the competition. Even ATT is selling Mini's on their site with 3G built-in. It's as much of a given on a Ultra-portable as a wireless network card.
You completely missed the point of our posts on this forum about the short-comings of Apple product. We're not offended, just frustrated that Apple is not addressing certain obvious requests of their users. SJ claims they went through tons of user/focus groups and incorporated those studies into their new products, but some issues just don't come up in a test lab.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic
Those complaining about lack of 3G?where exactly did Apple actually promise 3G in the MBA? Microsoft and others in the industry have a nasty habit of promising products with fantastic features, and then being unable to deliver on those promises. Apple has chosen not to do that. They don't "pre-announce" hardware products to come "some time in the future". They like the drama and "wow" factor of springing something new on the world. So this whole "I'm mad at Apple because they didn't include 3G in the MBA" is kinda moot since they never promised it in the first place, and because there are other ways to get 3G.
On an Airplane going from Chicago to London, or LA to Singapore, just to name a few.
Increasingly, international airlines are including power outlets in their planes. I did a google search for "using laptop on airline" and found a link to this website
Here are some of the airlines that offer laptop power on some of their long-haul economy flights:
American Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Continental Airlines
Delta Airlines
Emirates
Lufthansa
Qantas Airways
Singapore Airlines
United Airlines
Virgin Atlantic Airways
This list is by no means exhaustive, and nearly all of the airlines provide laptop power in business class or first class, so if you absolutely must work for your entire 14 hour flight, then it shouldn't be hard to find an airline that will be able to supply you with that capability. If your work is that important for your company, then they should be willing to shell out the extra money to get you a business-class seat, where you are almost guaranteed to have laptop power.
We are not mad that Apple reneged on any promise, and we are not mad at SJ for raising the Middle Finger. We're mad because 3G on an Ultra-portable is something of a given when looking at the competition. Even ATT is selling Mini's on their site with 3G built-in. It's as much of a given on a Ultra-portable as a wireless network card.
You completely missed the point of our posts on this forum about the short-comings of Apple product. We're not offended, just frustrated that Apple is not addressing certain obvious requests of their users. SJ claims they went through tons of user/focus groups and incorporated those studies into their new products, but some issues just don't come up in a test lab.
Apple doesn't do focus groups. And Apple doesn't look at the competition. A side effect of this will inevitably be that some items on users' wishlists won't make it to market. But honestly, I don't think Steve or his engineering teams lose much sleep over this, considering the huge popularity Apple is currently enjoying. Naysayer's comments aside, it's pretty clear that Apple's been doing it right for some time now.
Increasingly, international airlines are including power outlets in their planes. I did a google search for "using laptop on airline" and found a link to this website
Here are some of the airlines that offer laptop power on some of their long-haul economy flights:
American Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Continental Airlines
Delta Airlines
Emirates
Lufthansa
Qantas Airways
Singapore Airlines
United Airlines
Virgin Atlantic Airways
This list is by no means exhaustive, and nearly all of the airlines provide laptop power in business class or first class, so if you absolutely must work for your entire 14 hour flight, then it shouldn't be hard to find an airline that will be able to supply you with that capability. If your work is that important for your company, then they should be willing to shell out the extra money to get you a business-class seat, where you are almost guaranteed to have laptop power.
Problem solved (nod to appl)
Ah, you are being too sensible.
Add Air Canada.
Bought an airline power adapter for my MacBook Pro a couple of years ago. Have yet to take it out of the package. And that is after a dozen flights in that time to Norita, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, New York, Boston and London.
In fact, I bought a couple of extra batteries at the same time. Rarely had to use them traveling. I carry a auto power converter to charge my battery. Every where I go there is a power outlet available. Even in the cabs.
I'm amazed with the tone of half of the posts on here. While it's completely fine and appropriate to critique Apple where one sees the need for improvement, half of the posters reacted to this press conference like it's a personal affront to you. As if Steve presented the new MBAs, and then punched you in the face, gave you the finger and said, "HAHAHA! I knew exactly what you wanted, and I'm not gonna give it to you, so screw you!!!"
UGH! It?s going to be one of those days, eh? Perhaps you should learn what the term ?deal breaker? means as not buying is strongly implied by that term.
I think you are seeing a general frustration with people acting like companies like Apple should cater to their every whim and then they feel compelled to throw a tantrum in public Internet forums when they don't.
Can you play Crysis on a MacBook Pro? If you want it all, the MBP may not be the best choice.
Sure you can. With everything cranked to the max? Probably not. If games are your priority, go get a Windows laptop with dual cards - just be prepared to not be able to run it for more than 10 minutes on battery and have a roller bag handy or get a hernia from hauling your 15 lb "portable" computer around. See, compromises...
Life is about choices and compromises. That I even have to point that out boggles...
Besides if we could get exactly what we wanted whenever we wanted, how boring would life be?
We just compared the new 13" MacBook Air to her near-death 2007 Sony VAIO S-Series. The increase in performance offered by Apple's MBA is, quite simply, astonishing. Frankly, for 99.999% of tasks, it has all the computing power she'll ever need for both business and leisure. Apple figured out her needs perfectly. Result: PC: 0; Apple: 1.
When Steve Jobs grandly stated that the MBA represents the future of notebooks, he was right. SSD has to be the way to go. Who needs a DVD drive on a regular basis? And long battery life is essential. This has it all.
To all the "I don't get it" people out there - this. Read this mans post again, carefully. It's rational and based on real world requirements.
Does computer X meet my need? Yes! Therefore, I'm buying it. If the Air doesn't meet your needs, fantastic! But just because it doesn't meet your needs it doesn't mean Apple is stupid or going out of business
I swear, it's like people don't realize the universe doesn't revolve around their wants/needs/desires...
I hear you man about afford-ability, but Apple is known to be a company that doesn't make products that are affordable to the masses of users [..] and the iPad in the $299 range
I am sick and tired of the complaining about the iPad price.
When someone release a tablet with the same size and quality screen and similar features (heck, it could even be heavier and bulkier and I will concede) then any commentary on price will be justified.
So far no one has been able to touch Apple at their price point - even using cheaper displays (which according to sites like iSupply are the bulk of the iPad cost).
I know people aren't used to thinking of Apple as a price leader, but with the iPad they clearly are and they deserve credit for it.
Just like with Netbooks, if you aren't willing to pay for that level of quality, that's another discussion - but all this talk that the iPad is overpriced or that there should be a $299 version is just plain nuts - it's not going to happen.
On an Airplane going from Chicago to London, or LA to Singapore, just to name a few.
You must really be flying a crappy airline if they don't have power available to you on a transatlantic flight - in fact, looking through a smattering of planes on the major carriers on seatguru.com they all have power of some form available.
Comments
Apple doesn't make a netbook because they suffer a lack of confidence in their ability to dramatically grow the Mac market, and instead worry about cannibalizing sales.
Here's a question. COULD Apple make a Netbook? Nobody here would doubt it! So why don't they?
It would be the portable mini to their MacBook. The same form factor as the 11" Air, but with compromises made to make it more easily affordable, especially for switchers who already have PCs. Sure, it wouldn't encode HD videos as fast, but most Netbook users are "english majors" and so on who just need to browse the web or use Office to write papers.
We know a Netbook can run Snow Leopard very well BECAUSE IT ALREADY DOES! Safari runs brilliantly, and can even play 1080P videos given the GPU. Hell, even using flash video players. It works today, and the hardware costs under half to under a quarter as much.
Why do people buy Netbooks? Are they unsophisticated barbarians who can't appreciate an $8 biscotti? I submit they don't need a $1000+ laptop to surf the web or run Quicken, so why pay that much?
But no, instead Apple shuns an entire market because they lack the confidence to own it despite having the ability. Instead they spend millions in R&D to cater to a very, very small niche market. Maybe it's because Steve wouldn't use a Netbook, and thus nobody should.
Or maybe I'm full of shit and there is no market for such a product. I suspect otherwise given the Netbook phenomenon, however.
I was about to be all over that 11", but no SD card slot... I wonder why (obviously size) they would concede that? Looks like I'll have to consider the 13".
Tell me about it... Do I i stick with my work dell 4200 with its slow SSD, absolutely godawful keyboard, but has sd slot, or do i dump it, and go with the 11.6" macbookair, and be stuck with (more) dongles.
I'm amazed with the tone of half of the posts on here. While it's completely fine and appropriate to critique Apple where one sees the need for improvement, half of the posters reacted to this press conference like it's a personal affront to you. As if Steve presented the new MBAs, and then punched you in the face, gave you the finger and said, "HAHAHA! I knew exactly what you wanted, and I'm not gonna give it to you, so screw you!!!"
I think Apple is very well aware that the MBA is not gonna suit everyone's needs, which is why they also have the MacBook line and the MacBook Pro line; as well as iMac, Mac mini and Mac Pro. Now, if along with ?We think it?s the future of notebooks,? Steve had said "Because we think this is the only notebook you will ever need, we will be shutting down our MacBook and MacBook Pro lines," then people here would have legitimate complaints about the MBA not having enough storage or being underpowered, etc.
Those complaining about lack of 3G?where exactly did Apple actually promise 3G in the MBA? Microsoft and others in the industry have a nasty habit of promising products with fantastic features, and then being unable to deliver on those promises. Apple has chosen not to do that. They don't "pre-announce" hardware products to come "some time in the future". They like the drama and "wow" factor of springing something new on the world. So this whole "I'm mad at Apple because they didn't include 3G in the MBA" is kinda moot since they never promised it in the first place, and because there are other ways to get 3G.
Thank you !! ... one sane post
Personally, after thinking about this device last night, I kind of question SJ's logic about this device being the bastard love child of the iPad and the MBP as well as you did. It's really more Mac than iPad. They learned a lot about how to build hardware thin and light from the iPad/phone/pod and incorporated it into the MBA, but that's where the comparisons end. There is nothing iOS about the new MBA. Sure when Lion comes out we will have Apps, but those Apps won't sync to iOS devices. So there's nothing genuinely iOS about the MBA. I think that is turely the only aspect of the new MBA that is a fail. And, I think they could have made the product more affordable to the masses is they did make an iOS Laptop.
Steve said this is like the ipad and macbook combined.
Not even close- It it were than there would be a 3g radio built in and maybe a GPS. How about a touch screen.
I currently have a macbookpro 13" That is my primary computer. I am considering an IPAD as my walk around machine.
This new mcabook is under powered, under storage, and the battery life is unimpressive.
Sorry apple I do not see the value in this one.
But I wonder, how often will someone find themselves without access to a power outlet for more than 6 hours?
There's a difference between ultraportable and netbook.
i think you (and actually several other people in the thread) are conflating several remarks from Jobs, several years apart.
Two years ago, during an earnings conference call (and near the beginning of the recession), he said this in a response to a question about cutting Mac prices to be more competitive:
During the same conference call he was asked specifically about netbooks and said that Apple was taking a "wait and see" attitude and that they had "some interesting ideas" about the segment.
And then earlier this year, during the introduction of the iPad he dismissed netbooks as slow, having poor quality screens and being burdened with Windows software.
I think in general most people understand that "netbook" is shorthand for "cheap little laptop that cuts a lot of corners to sell you something for under $300" and it's obvious why Jobs would have no interest in that idea. And then the idea is further muddied by "netbooks" that keep getting bigger and more expensive, until it's unclear why we are obliged to call them netbooks and not cheap laptops.
So any idea that Apple or Jobs have reversed course with regards to "netbooks" is unfounded, IMO.
Battery life? You're crazy. Name another similar laptop that gets more battery life.
so because nobody else offers a similar sized laptop with the same battery life, that makes the MBA's claimed life fit his requirements?
You completely missed the point of our posts on this forum about the short-comings of Apple product. We're not offended, just frustrated that Apple is not addressing certain obvious requests of their users. SJ claims they went through tons of user/focus groups and incorporated those studies into their new products, but some issues just don't come up in a test lab.
Those complaining about lack of 3G?where exactly did Apple actually promise 3G in the MBA? Microsoft and others in the industry have a nasty habit of promising products with fantastic features, and then being unable to deliver on those promises. Apple has chosen not to do that. They don't "pre-announce" hardware products to come "some time in the future". They like the drama and "wow" factor of springing something new on the world. So this whole "I'm mad at Apple because they didn't include 3G in the MBA" is kinda moot since they never promised it in the first place, and because there are other ways to get 3G.
On an Airplane going from Chicago to London, or LA to Singapore, just to name a few.
Increasingly, international airlines are including power outlets in their planes. I did a google search for "using laptop on airline" and found a link to this website
Here are some of the airlines that offer laptop power on some of their long-haul economy flights:
American Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Continental Airlines
Delta Airlines
Emirates
Lufthansa
Qantas Airways
Singapore Airlines
United Airlines
Virgin Atlantic Airways
This list is by no means exhaustive, and nearly all of the airlines provide laptop power in business class or first class, so if you absolutely must work for your entire 14 hour flight, then it shouldn't be hard to find an airline that will be able to supply you with that capability. If your work is that important for your company, then they should be willing to shell out the extra money to get you a business-class seat, where you are almost guaranteed to have laptop power.
Problem solved (nod to appl)
We are not mad that Apple reneged on any promise, and we are not mad at SJ for raising the Middle Finger. We're mad because 3G on an Ultra-portable is something of a given when looking at the competition. Even ATT is selling Mini's on their site with 3G built-in. It's as much of a given on a Ultra-portable as a wireless network card.
You completely missed the point of our posts on this forum about the short-comings of Apple product. We're not offended, just frustrated that Apple is not addressing certain obvious requests of their users. SJ claims they went through tons of user/focus groups and incorporated those studies into their new products, but some issues just don't come up in a test lab.
Apple doesn't do focus groups. And Apple doesn't look at the competition. A side effect of this will inevitably be that some items on users' wishlists won't make it to market. But honestly, I don't think Steve or his engineering teams lose much sleep over this, considering the huge popularity Apple is currently enjoying. Naysayer's comments aside, it's pretty clear that Apple's been doing it right for some time now.
Increasingly, international airlines are including power outlets in their planes. I did a google search for "using laptop on airline" and found a link to this website
Here are some of the airlines that offer laptop power on some of their long-haul economy flights:
American Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Continental Airlines
Delta Airlines
Emirates
Lufthansa
Qantas Airways
Singapore Airlines
United Airlines
Virgin Atlantic Airways
This list is by no means exhaustive, and nearly all of the airlines provide laptop power in business class or first class, so if you absolutely must work for your entire 14 hour flight, then it shouldn't be hard to find an airline that will be able to supply you with that capability. If your work is that important for your company, then they should be willing to shell out the extra money to get you a business-class seat, where you are almost guaranteed to have laptop power.
Problem solved (nod to appl)
Ah, you are being too sensible.
Add Air Canada.
Bought an airline power adapter for my MacBook Pro a couple of years ago. Have yet to take it out of the package. And that is after a dozen flights in that time to Norita, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, New York, Boston and London.
In fact, I bought a couple of extra batteries at the same time. Rarely had to use them traveling. I carry a auto power converter to charge my battery. Every where I go there is a power outlet available. Even in the cabs.
Ah, you are being too sensible.
Sorry. I'll try to be more ranty next time.
I'm amazed with the tone of half of the posts on here. While it's completely fine and appropriate to critique Apple where one sees the need for improvement, half of the posters reacted to this press conference like it's a personal affront to you. As if Steve presented the new MBAs, and then punched you in the face, gave you the finger and said, "HAHAHA! I knew exactly what you wanted, and I'm not gonna give it to you, so screw you!!!"
LOL - best post in the thread.
Thanks for the perspective
UGH! It?s going to be one of those days, eh? Perhaps you should learn what the term ?deal breaker? means as not buying is strongly implied by that term.
I think you are seeing a general frustration with people acting like companies like Apple should cater to their every whim and then they feel compelled to throw a tantrum in public Internet forums when they don't.
Dont' worry, it will pass....
Can you play Crysis on a MacBook Pro? If you want it all, the MBP may not be the best choice.
Sure you can. With everything cranked to the max? Probably not. If games are your priority, go get a Windows laptop with dual cards - just be prepared to not be able to run it for more than 10 minutes on battery and have a roller bag handy or get a hernia from hauling your 15 lb "portable" computer around. See, compromises...
Life is about choices and compromises. That I even have to point that out boggles...
Besides if we could get exactly what we wanted whenever we wanted, how boring would life be?
We just compared the new 13" MacBook Air to her near-death 2007 Sony VAIO S-Series. The increase in performance offered by Apple's MBA is, quite simply, astonishing. Frankly, for 99.999% of tasks, it has all the computing power she'll ever need for both business and leisure. Apple figured out her needs perfectly. Result: PC: 0; Apple: 1.
When Steve Jobs grandly stated that the MBA represents the future of notebooks, he was right. SSD has to be the way to go. Who needs a DVD drive on a regular basis? And long battery life is essential. This has it all.
To all the "I don't get it" people out there - this. Read this mans post again, carefully. It's rational and based on real world requirements.
Does computer X meet my need? Yes! Therefore, I'm buying it. If the Air doesn't meet your needs, fantastic! But just because it doesn't meet your needs it doesn't mean Apple is stupid or going out of business
I swear, it's like people don't realize the universe doesn't revolve around their wants/needs/desires...
I hear you man about afford-ability, but Apple is known to be a company that doesn't make products that are affordable to the masses of users [..] and the iPad in the $299 range
I am sick and tired of the complaining about the iPad price.
When someone release a tablet with the same size and quality screen and similar features (heck, it could even be heavier and bulkier and I will concede) then any commentary on price will be justified.
So far no one has been able to touch Apple at their price point - even using cheaper displays (which according to sites like iSupply are the bulk of the iPad cost).
I know people aren't used to thinking of Apple as a price leader, but with the iPad they clearly are and they deserve credit for it.
Just like with Netbooks, if you aren't willing to pay for that level of quality, that's another discussion - but all this talk that the iPad is overpriced or that there should be a $299 version is just plain nuts - it's not going to happen.
On an Airplane going from Chicago to London, or LA to Singapore, just to name a few.
You must really be flying a crappy airline if they don't have power available to you on a transatlantic flight - in fact, looking through a smattering of planes on the major carriers on seatguru.com they all have power of some form available.