It's about precedent and facts. Apple isn't going to pay this down. They will fight it to keep from larger fish leveraging such a frivolous action for their much larger false claim.
I am not so sure we can so easily say it is frivolous. If your house burned down and your insurance company paid the claim but told you their investigation found the the adapter was at fault, would you assume they were lying? Would you accept a replacement that used the identical adapter?
I'm as big an apple guy as the next person and if the fire report says this caused the fire, you pay. It's as simple as that and no reason to drag this out. While it does set the tone of future cases, if the fire marshal says that was the cause of the fire, you pay. It's nothing out of apple's pocket and it's the right thing to do. Why drag it out and spend 2x as much on lawyers when in the end you might lose anyway. Then again, I'm not a major corporation looking to protect myself so my opinion means shit.
What I find odd is that the adapter can provide enough energy on the low voltage end to start a fire in anything but an explosive atmosphere.
In a perfect world there would be no combustibles in direct contact with the cable, but you know how papers on a desk sometimes pile up. If it is hot enough to melt the plastic insulation, I would think it is hot enough to set paper on fire.
A newly filed lawsuit claims that Apple's MagSafe charger, attached to a 2007 MacBook Pro, caused a major fire at a Connecticut home.
The lawsuit was filed this month in a U.S. District Court in Connecticut by Great Northern Insurance Company. Great Northern made payments in excess of $75,000 to a client after an accidental fire occurred at their family's home.
According to the lawsuit, the fire marshal of the town of Glastonbury concluded that the blaze, which occurred on May 23, 2008, was caused by the "external system components" of the laptop found in the home.
"Unbeknownst to [the client], in 2007 and 2008, Apple had received numerous complaints posted on its own Apple store website alerting Apple to heating, burning and sparking problems with its MagSafe adapters," the suit reads.
"As a result of the aforementioned fire, [the family] sustained severe and extensive damage to their real and personal property and incurred additional living expenses."
Great Northern's lawsuit attempts to prove that the MagSafe adapter was "in a defective and unreasonably dangerous condition" due to Apple. The complaint argues that Apple "manufactured and sold the MagSafe adapter in a condition that it knew, or should have known, subjected the property of others to foreseeable and unreasonable risk of harm."
Great Norther has asserted that because Apple "negligently designed and manufactured" the MagSafe adapter, it should be reimbursed for the fire damage that occurred in 2008.
According to the suit, the MacBook Pro and its MagSafe adapter were purchased in August 2007. It states that the computer and its charging accessory were used as intended, and "without abusing or misusing" them.
The latest lawsuit is in addition to one filed in 2009, when Apple was hit with a class-action complaint regarding fires allegedly started by MagSafe adapters. That complaint, filed on behalf of multiple users, claimed that normal day-to-day use destroyed the cable on the MagSafe adapter, potentially leading to sparks or fire.
Sory for that person, but MagSafe is no more dangerous than any other charger. Mine is fine and i'm using it as it should be used. Some people should pay attention how they use stuff.
Don't get me wrong ... I'm a longtime reader and 1st time poster ...
If the adapter was the fault, no problem this will setlle (in or out of court - like everything else so far ...) BUT
It amazes me how many people signed up TODAY only to express how they had exactly the SAME problem ... and that Apple is such an "evil" company just wondering ...
Sory for that person, but MagSafe is no more dangerous than any other charger. Mine is fine and i'm using it as it should be used. Some people should pay attention how they use stuff.
a google image search of "magsafe" shows a bunch of burned connections. Are you sure they aren't dangerous?
I have gone through 3 of these in the past 3 year, they are like popcorn. And I am not talking about the magsafe connector itself - I love that part! It's the AC to DC portion that is crap. I had one smoke and 2 others fail. Just have to hope that 1. The don't burn down the house and 2. That it is under warranty. I would join a class action on this if it would improve the quality of these adapters.
"What's that? They have 50 billion dollars in cash, you say? Hmmmmmmmm...frivolous lawsuit time!"
Sorry, if the fire marshal determined the MagSafe adapter was the culprit which started a house fire, then it is NOT a frivolous lawsuit. Why should the insurance company absorb the cost which they believe is Apple's fault?
The adapter was quietly redesigned without much comment from Apple. Why? Probably because Apple realized the previous adapter had some design flaws with many people needing to replace their cables. I am on my third cable now for my mid-2009 MacBook Pro which Apple has been replacing for free.
I'm as big an apple guy as the next person and if the fire report says this caused the fire, you pay. It's as simple as that and no reason to drag this out. While it does set the tone of future cases, if the fire marshal says that was the cause of the fire, you pay. It's nothing out of apple's pocket and it's the right thing to do. Why drag it out and spend 2x as much on lawyers when in the end you might lose anyway. Then again, I'm not a major corporation looking to protect myself so my opinion means shit.
Do you have evidence that the adapter was not damaged or abused by the user before the incident?
We only have the word of the insurer, who does not know it for a fact as the device will have been destroyed, so they only have the word of the home owner. Not a clear cut case really.
Sorry, if the fire marshal determined the MagSafe adapter was the culprit which started a house fire, then it is NOT a frivolous lawsuit. Why should the insurance company absorb the cost which they believe is Apple's fault?
The adapter was quietly redesigned without much comment from Apple. Why? Probably because Apple realized the previous adapter had some design flaws with many people needing to replace their cables. I am on my third cable now for my mid-2009 MacBook Pro which Apple has been replacing for free.
It may very well be the culprit but does the fire marshall know the actual state of the adapter before the fire? No they do not and therefore can't say if the unit was damaged or in a safe state to be used or not.
a google image search of "magsafe" shows a bunch of burned connections. Are you sure they aren't dangerous?
Google image search for "car" shows a bunch of burned cars. Are you sure cars aren't dangerous? See how stupid this is? The core problem is here is not that MagSafe is somehow badly designed, the problem here is both design and how people use it. Some people take care of their stuff, they look after they stuff and some just like a mess they don't think how they are actually using it. I'm not saying it's the case here, but there are two sides of the problem. Mine for example is old, but it looks like new, because i like my stuff to be clean and in working order.
As a service tech for an Apple ASP, I will say that the ONLY MagSafe issues I have ever seen are on systems where the MagSafe plug looks as though it were dragged behind the car on the way to the store. It is no more or less dangerous than ANY other AC adapter on the market. Keep in mind that Apple's MagSafe adapter is sold at a price in most cases less than any other replacement AC Adapters on the market they are $79.00 where other Adapters are usually around $100. You CAN replace those adapters as you see wear and tear on them. But I cannot figure out why there would be that much wear. People do need to take a bit of responsibility for themselves, I have a feeling I know what this particular Adapter looked like before allegedly causing that fire.
As a service tech for an Apple ASP, I will say that the ONLY MagSafe issues I have ever seen are on systems where the MagSafe plug looks as though it were dragged behind the car on the way to the store. It is no more or less dangerous than ANY other AC adapter on the market. Keep in mind that Apple's MagSafe adapter is sold at a price in most cases less than any other replacement AC Adapters on the market they are $79.00 where other Adapters are usually around $100. You CAN replace those adapters as you see wear and tear on them. But I cannot figure out why there would be that much wear. People do need to take a bit of responsibility for themselves, I have a feeling I know what this particular Adapter looked like before allegedly causing that fire.
Exactly my point. I'm not defending Apple (well i am in a way), but every device you connect to the power outlet can fail due to bad quality, or misuse or 100 other things.
I've had magsafe adaptors since they came out on multiple macbook pros. I've also bought extra adaptors so I don't have to cart just the one around the house.
I've never had a problem with any of them.
If this issue is caused by users pulling the cables out by the cable and not by the plastic connector then it's their own fault.
If the adaptors were not magsafe adaptors and were the rubbish pc type "kettle" ones would they pull them out by the cable instead of by the connector? I doubt it as it'd pull the machine over. Laziness and stupidity on the part of the user me thinks.
This happened to my macbook I got in late december of 2007 in the summer of 2009.
I went for a run and came home to the smell of burnt electronics and a fried cord. My computer was fine and I don't even have apple care. When I went into the store, they fixed it at no cost. The guy at the store said it was fixed because something like that should "Never" happen. I assumed this would come up again.
As a service tech for an Apple ASP, I will say that the ONLY MagSafe issues I have ever seen are on systems where the MagSafe plug looks as though it were dragged behind the car on the way to the store.
I've been an AASP since before the PowerBook came out and like you, I have seem several burned AC adapters, and each time the cord looked like an animal had been chewing on it, or as you say, it had been dragged behind a car on the way to the store. Almost all of the failures I have seen occurred at the strain relief part of the AC adapter with only a few at the magsafe end and none on the body itself. I have never once seen a burned AC adapter that appeared to be new or in good condition (exempting the burning, obviously).
The one thing I have learned over the years is that buyers are liars when it comes to abused or damaged equipment. I cannot count the number of times that a laptop was brought in that "just stopped working" only to find it dripping wet, usually coffee, wine, or soda, on the inside.
Standard procedure for insurance companies. They will try to collect from the party that caused the damage that resulted in the claim payout. If they can prove that the MagSafe was the cause, and then also prove Apple knew of the defect, then more power to them. That's what lawsuits are for. Long before there were mandatory automobile insurance laws an individual hit our family vehicle while my wife was driving. The guy didn't have any insurance. My insurance company paid for the damage to my car since we had collision and comprehensive coverage. I paid the deductable. Five years later I received a check from my insurance company for the deductable I had paid. They had persued this guy for five years, suing him, garnishing his wages, etc., until they got every penny out of him back.
Lawsuits are filed every day. Proving something is another thing. What's really stupid are the ignorant pro and con posts in this thread. Sheesh!
Sorry, if the fire marshal determined the MagSafe adapter was the culprit which started a house fire, then it is NOT a frivolous lawsuit. Why should the insurance company absorb the cost which they believe is Apple's fault?
Nonsense. The fire marshal may have determined that it was an ignition source. But what what was the fuel?
This applies not only to Apple, but to any manufacturer of electronic components. So I am going to make this a generic counter-argument.
What exactly were the circumstances leading to the fire? Assuming for the sake of argument that the AC adapter sparked, what did it spark on? Did the homeowner live is complete filth with fire hazards everywhere? Was it on a table or structure that was highly combustible? Did the homeowner have the laptop plugged into the wall with a bunch of octopus wiring causing an overload of some sort?
I'd bet money that the homeowner is conveniently holding something back.
When I use my Milwaukee cordless 18v power drill, occasionally a spark will spit spit out of the motor vent due to the high torque. If I happen to be standing next to a gasoline drum, is it the fault of the drill company?
There's a lot more to this story that's not being talked about.
Unless the component (regardless of manufacturer) literally blew up and exploded like a brick of C-4 explosives, then I'm not convinced it was entirely the company's fault. Not just yet.
That's the problem with you couch conspiracy-theorists. You're quick to judge without waiting to see what the outcome is. Then, when the truth does come out, you quietly retreat to a corner and hope no-one calls you on it.
In the end, yet another label will be attached to a device to protect you from yourselves.
How's this: "This product incorporates high-voltage circuitry of 120v. Please keep away from all combustible materials.".
Comments
It's about precedent and facts. Apple isn't going to pay this down. They will fight it to keep from larger fish leveraging such a frivolous action for their much larger false claim.
I am not so sure we can so easily say it is frivolous. If your house burned down and your insurance company paid the claim but told you their investigation found the the adapter was at fault, would you assume they were lying? Would you accept a replacement that used the identical adapter?
What I find odd is that the adapter can provide enough energy on the low voltage end to start a fire in anything but an explosive atmosphere.
In a perfect world there would be no combustibles in direct contact with the cable, but you know how papers on a desk sometimes pile up. If it is hot enough to melt the plastic insulation, I would think it is hot enough to set paper on fire.
A newly filed lawsuit claims that Apple's MagSafe charger, attached to a 2007 MacBook Pro, caused a major fire at a Connecticut home.
The lawsuit was filed this month in a U.S. District Court in Connecticut by Great Northern Insurance Company. Great Northern made payments in excess of $75,000 to a client after an accidental fire occurred at their family's home.
According to the lawsuit, the fire marshal of the town of Glastonbury concluded that the blaze, which occurred on May 23, 2008, was caused by the "external system components" of the laptop found in the home.
"Unbeknownst to [the client], in 2007 and 2008, Apple had received numerous complaints posted on its own Apple store website alerting Apple to heating, burning and sparking problems with its MagSafe adapters," the suit reads.
"As a result of the aforementioned fire, [the family] sustained severe and extensive damage to their real and personal property and incurred additional living expenses."
Great Northern's lawsuit attempts to prove that the MagSafe adapter was "in a defective and unreasonably dangerous condition" due to Apple. The complaint argues that Apple "manufactured and sold the MagSafe adapter in a condition that it knew, or should have known, subjected the property of others to foreseeable and unreasonable risk of harm."
Great Norther has asserted that because Apple "negligently designed and manufactured" the MagSafe adapter, it should be reimbursed for the fire damage that occurred in 2008.
According to the suit, the MacBook Pro and its MagSafe adapter were purchased in August 2007. It states that the computer and its charging accessory were used as intended, and "without abusing or misusing" them.
The latest lawsuit is in addition to one filed in 2009, when Apple was hit with a class-action complaint regarding fires allegedly started by MagSafe adapters. That complaint, filed on behalf of multiple users, claimed that normal day-to-day use destroyed the cable on the MagSafe adapter, potentially leading to sparks or fire.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Sory for that person, but MagSafe is no more dangerous than any other charger. Mine is fine and i'm using it as it should be used. Some people should pay attention how they use stuff.
If the adapter was the fault, no problem this will setlle (in or out of court - like everything else so far ...) BUT
It amazes me how many people signed up TODAY only to express how they had exactly the SAME problem ... and that Apple is such an "evil" company
Sory for that person, but MagSafe is no more dangerous than any other charger. Mine is fine and i'm using it as it should be used. Some people should pay attention how they use stuff.
a google image search of "magsafe" shows a bunch of burned connections. Are you sure they aren't dangerous?
"What's that? They have 50 billion dollars in cash, you say? Hmmmmmmmm...frivolous lawsuit time!"
Sorry, if the fire marshal determined the MagSafe adapter was the culprit which started a house fire, then it is NOT a frivolous lawsuit. Why should the insurance company absorb the cost which they believe is Apple's fault?
The adapter was quietly redesigned without much comment from Apple. Why? Probably because Apple realized the previous adapter had some design flaws with many people needing to replace their cables. I am on my third cable now for my mid-2009 MacBook Pro which Apple has been replacing for free.
I'm as big an apple guy as the next person and if the fire report says this caused the fire, you pay. It's as simple as that and no reason to drag this out. While it does set the tone of future cases, if the fire marshal says that was the cause of the fire, you pay. It's nothing out of apple's pocket and it's the right thing to do. Why drag it out and spend 2x as much on lawyers when in the end you might lose anyway. Then again, I'm not a major corporation looking to protect myself so my opinion means shit.
Do you have evidence that the adapter was not damaged or abused by the user before the incident?
We only have the word of the insurer, who does not know it for a fact as the device will have been destroyed, so they only have the word of the home owner. Not a clear cut case really.
Sorry, if the fire marshal determined the MagSafe adapter was the culprit which started a house fire, then it is NOT a frivolous lawsuit. Why should the insurance company absorb the cost which they believe is Apple's fault?
The adapter was quietly redesigned without much comment from Apple. Why? Probably because Apple realized the previous adapter had some design flaws with many people needing to replace their cables. I am on my third cable now for my mid-2009 MacBook Pro which Apple has been replacing for free.
It may very well be the culprit but does the fire marshall know the actual state of the adapter before the fire? No they do not and therefore can't say if the unit was damaged or in a safe state to be used or not.
a google image search of "magsafe" shows a bunch of burned connections. Are you sure they aren't dangerous?
Google image search for "car" shows a bunch of burned cars. Are you sure cars aren't dangerous? See how stupid this is? The core problem is here is not that MagSafe is somehow badly designed, the problem here is both design and how people use it. Some people take care of their stuff, they look after they stuff and some just like a mess they don't think how they are actually using it. I'm not saying it's the case here, but there are two sides of the problem. Mine for example is old, but it looks like new, because i like my stuff to be clean and in working order.
"What's that? They have 50 billion dollars in cash, you say? Hmmmmmmmm...frivolous lawsuit time!"
Yeah, the firemarshal is out to get paid
As a service tech for an Apple ASP, I will say that the ONLY MagSafe issues I have ever seen are on systems where the MagSafe plug looks as though it were dragged behind the car on the way to the store. It is no more or less dangerous than ANY other AC adapter on the market. Keep in mind that Apple's MagSafe adapter is sold at a price in most cases less than any other replacement AC Adapters on the market they are $79.00 where other Adapters are usually around $100. You CAN replace those adapters as you see wear and tear on them. But I cannot figure out why there would be that much wear. People do need to take a bit of responsibility for themselves, I have a feeling I know what this particular Adapter looked like before allegedly causing that fire.
Exactly my point. I'm not defending Apple (well i am in a way), but every device you connect to the power outlet can fail due to bad quality, or misuse or 100 other things.
I've never had a problem with any of them.
If this issue is caused by users pulling the cables out by the cable and not by the plastic connector then it's their own fault.
If the adaptors were not magsafe adaptors and were the rubbish pc type "kettle" ones would they pull them out by the cable instead of by the connector? I doubt it as it'd pull the machine over. Laziness and stupidity on the part of the user me thinks.
I went for a run and came home to the smell of burnt electronics and a fried cord. My computer was fine and I don't even have apple care. When I went into the store, they fixed it at no cost. The guy at the store said it was fixed because something like that should "Never" happen. I assumed this would come up again.
Pretty interesting.
As a service tech for an Apple ASP, I will say that the ONLY MagSafe issues I have ever seen are on systems where the MagSafe plug looks as though it were dragged behind the car on the way to the store.
I've been an AASP since before the PowerBook came out and like you, I have seem several burned AC adapters, and each time the cord looked like an animal had been chewing on it, or as you say, it had been dragged behind a car on the way to the store. Almost all of the failures I have seen occurred at the strain relief part of the AC adapter with only a few at the magsafe end and none on the body itself. I have never once seen a burned AC adapter that appeared to be new or in good condition (exempting the burning, obviously).
The one thing I have learned over the years is that buyers are liars when it comes to abused or damaged equipment. I cannot count the number of times that a laptop was brought in that "just stopped working" only to find it dripping wet, usually coffee, wine, or soda, on the inside.
Lawsuits are filed every day. Proving something is another thing. What's really stupid are the ignorant pro and con posts in this thread. Sheesh!
Sorry, if the fire marshal determined the MagSafe adapter was the culprit which started a house fire, then it is NOT a frivolous lawsuit. Why should the insurance company absorb the cost which they believe is Apple's fault?
Nonsense. The fire marshal may have determined that it was an ignition source. But what what was the fuel?
This applies not only to Apple, but to any manufacturer of electronic components. So I am going to make this a generic counter-argument.
What exactly were the circumstances leading to the fire? Assuming for the sake of argument that the AC adapter sparked, what did it spark on? Did the homeowner live is complete filth with fire hazards everywhere? Was it on a table or structure that was highly combustible? Did the homeowner have the laptop plugged into the wall with a bunch of octopus wiring causing an overload of some sort?
I'd bet money that the homeowner is conveniently holding something back.
When I use my Milwaukee cordless 18v power drill, occasionally a spark will spit spit out of the motor vent due to the high torque. If I happen to be standing next to a gasoline drum, is it the fault of the drill company?
There's a lot more to this story that's not being talked about.
Unless the component (regardless of manufacturer) literally blew up and exploded like a brick of C-4 explosives, then I'm not convinced it was entirely the company's fault. Not just yet.
That's the problem with you couch conspiracy-theorists. You're quick to judge without waiting to see what the outcome is. Then, when the truth does come out, you quietly retreat to a corner and hope no-one calls you on it.
In the end, yet another label will be attached to a device to protect you from yourselves.
How's this: "This product incorporates high-voltage circuitry of 120v. Please keep away from all combustible materials.".
Sounds familiar?