Amazon Kindle 'rapidly' losing e-reader market share to Apple's iPad

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 67
    johnqhjohnqh Posts: 242member
    Light is light, whether it is the source or reflected.



    The problem is simply that iPad is too bright. iPhone is much better for reading at night if you reduce the brightness to minimum (assuming the book app is using a bright white color for background). However, the iPad brightness doesn't go down that much.
  • Reply 22 of 67
    postulantpostulant Posts: 1,272member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    I love the "do a search number of hits equals truth" argument. I did a "Kindle sucks" search and got 397,000 hits. Therefore, the Kindle sucks.



    Except it doesn't, of course, and LCD reading comfort is a matter of preference. I guess I'm obliged to point out, as must be pointed out every time this topic comes up, that hundreds of millions of people spend the entire day reading text on LCD monitor screens and they don't seem to be clamoring for e-ink.



    The Nook Color seems to be faring pretty well, and there's lots of talk that Amazon is preparing a color model (which inevitably means LCD or AMOLED) to remain competitive.



    I guess I could play the Apple basher's favorite card here, and roll my eyes about how the Kindle "fan boys" will not doubt declare a color LCD screen awesome once Amazon adopts it, but I'm better than that.



    Love the post, addabox.



    To avoid eye strains, I lie in bed reading my iPad with sunglasses on. Pictures after the break...
  • Reply 23 of 67
    I totally agree about Amazon having the best selection of books. iBooks is still too limited but is growing. Plus I have not found a way to archive books from iBooks so that the space can be recovered on the iPAD. If anyone knows how - please let me know.
  • Reply 24 of 67
    ihxoihxo Posts: 563member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Postulant View Post


    Love the post, addabox.



    To avoid eye strains, I lie in bed reading my iPad with sunglasses on. Pictures after the break...



    lol
  • Reply 25 of 67
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by frugality View Post


    Pointless survey. Those with a Kindle actually READ. Those with an iPad MAY read, but most likely do a lot of web browsing, emailing, etc.



    The survey was among e-book readers, so it wasn't as if they just asked random device owners.



    Quote:

    And to compare the happiness of someone who spends $600 for an iPad with a lot of whiz-bang will OF COURSE rate their purchase higher than someone who buys a $139 black-and-white Kindle that is a dedicated reading machine.



    I don't get that. Why wouldn't a Kindle owner be just as satisfied with his or her purchase, since they bought it specifically for reading books? Being "readers" and all? It's not like they expected to get an iPad are are disappointed or surprised. If I buy something for a particular purpose, my satisfaction will hinge on how well it performs that purpose, not on the existence of other devices that may have other purposes.



    There are only two reasons I can think of-- either the Kindle doesn't satisfy as an e-reader (for a certain percentage of owners) or that same percentage come to feel whatever advantages a dedicated e-reader offer are exceeded by the advantages of a multi-purpose machine and develop buyer's remorse.



    In which case the "of course the iPad has higher satisfaction numbers" idea makes sense, but not in the way you meant. It means that dedicated e-readers may be doomed to obsolescence, just like so many other stand alone devices are being squeezed by the new mobile devices that can morph into most anything.



    Quote:

    I don't own either. I'm impressed by both. I do a lot of reading and really like the eInk of the Kindle. The iPad has more uses.



    I agree, sort of. I've used a borrowed Kindle for a while, and I found the screen to feel cramped and the contrast range to be a little subpar. Other than that, I could see using an e-ink device for reading.



    I noticed that I've gotten very used to having a sense of where I am in a book by the heft of the remaining pages, and that I like having a facing page in my field of view. Just habit, I guess, but it made the Kindle feel like reading a book through a small aperture. Claustrophobic. I imagine the iPad's larger screen helps ameliorate that feeling-- screen illumination preferences notwithstanding.
  • Reply 26 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Except it doesn't, of course, and LCD reading comfort is a matter of preference. I guess I'm obliged to point out, as must be pointed out every time this topic comes up, that hundreds of millions of people spend the entire day reading text on LCD monitor screens and they don't seem to be clamoring for e-ink.



    Could it be that there's no real option for laptop use? No use yelling, because no improvement is available from any vendor. Eye strain complaints from computers is someting I hear a lot of people complaining about. Eye strain with backlit sources is real, though the level of discomfort varies by individual. If I can use Kindle to reduce my eye-strain, I use it. I've got both and I don't even feel very comfortable reading comics with the marvel app, but do feel comfortable reading a book on the kindle.



    Personally a colour e-ink with the speed and color fidelity of current LCDs would be the ideal choice. When a laptop or tablet like that becomes available, it's countdown for LCDs in computer use. The opposite of your position would be "When apple comes out with E-ink based tablets with good colour reproduction and response, suddenly eye-strain will become an issue that Apple magically solved and that LCDs are absolutely horrible". Or something different?



    Regs, Jarkko
  • Reply 27 of 67
    dishdish Posts: 64member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by markb View Post


    Results sounds about right. Of course they are missing the point somewhat...Amazon doesnt lose out too badly when they dont sell a Kindle because someone bought an iPad. Where they really lose out if that same someone with an iPad uses iBooks instead of the iPad Kindle app.



    I try to use iBooks, but Amazon has 10x the selection of books easily. Especially when you go outside them most popular texts. Unless iBooks signs a ton more publishing houses, Amazon and their Kindle platform will do just fine despite what the survey suggests.



    I've recently just purchased my first book for the Kindle app, The only reason was because I split my reading between the iPad and the HTC EVO, so I enjoy the kindles page sync feature. I wish apple would make ibooks open to non ios devices, if they did I think they would steal a lot more kindle users. I should email Steve Jobs.
  • Reply 28 of 67
    dishdish Posts: 64member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Superep View Post


    I totally agree about Amazon having the best selection of books. iBooks is still too limited but is growing. Plus I have not found a way to archive books from iBooks so that the space can be recovered on the iPAD. If anyone knows how - please let me know.



    when you sync the ipad go to the Sync Books tab and uncheck the books you nolonger want on the ipad, then click sync. The books will be removed from the ipad but will remain in itunes for you to re add to the ipad in the future if you want.
  • Reply 29 of 67
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jahonen View Post


    Could it be that there's no real option for laptop use? No use yelling, because no improvement is available from any vendor. Eye strain complaints from computers is someting I hear a lot of people complaining about. Eye strain with backlit sources is real, though the level of discomfort varies by individual. If I can use Kindle to reduce my eye-strain, I use it. I've got both and I don't even feel very comfortable reading comics with the marvel app, but do feel comfortable reading a book on the kindle.



    That's a valid point; however, most people don't seem to have too much trouble with computer eye strain. I agree e-ink as used by the Kindle is easier on the eyes, it's just that there are other issues that (for me) outweigh that advantage.



    Quote:

    Personally a colour e-ink with the speed and color fidelity of current LCDs would be the ideal choice. When a laptop or tablet like that becomes available, it's countdown for LCDs in computer use.



    Well, sure, if a much better technology with clear advantages and no drawbacks emerges then of course we'll all be pleased. However, that's not really what we're talking about, which is the relative advantages/disadvantages of e-ink, as currently deployed, vs. LCD (or AMOLED).



    Quote:

    The opposite of your position would be "When apple comes out with E-ink based tablets with good colour reproduction and response, suddenly eye-strain will become an issue that Apple magically solved and that LCDs are absolutely horrible". Or something different?



    Regs, Jarkko



    It's a given that more than a few people will chastise Apple "fan boys" for having been insufficiently enthusiastic about nonexistent tech if and when that tech emerges on the market, complete with made-up stories about how they waxed rhapsodic about the excellence of LCDs for reading and swore they'd never, ever consider any other screen. Which is why I made a little joke about it. Ha ha, I guess.
  • Reply 30 of 67
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by johnqh View Post


    Light is light, whether it is the source or reflected.



    The problem is simply that iPad is too bright. iPhone is much better for reading at night if you reduce the brightness to minimum (assuming the book app is using a bright white color for background). However, the iPad brightness doesn't go down that much.



    It goes down almost to LED-off when in iBooks, actually lower than the point of reasonable legibility in a completely dark room. Sure with the backlight set all the way down you can still read big B&W text, but to make it comfortable for normal text and diagrams/pics it actually needs to go up more than a little. And you don't need a cutsie night-lite like you would for a Kindle.
  • Reply 31 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    Groan... not that retarded rhetoric again. There is nothing 'bad' about reading on a backlit and yes, glossy, screen. It won't screw up your eye sight. You may not like it but that's totally different.



    I would have agreed with you before I got an iPad. After all, I used to read for hours on end on Palm devices and my iPod touch and iPhone, and I work all day staring at LCD screens, and neither glossy screens nor backlighting ever bothered me. Pre-purchase I figured that my problem with reading on the iPad would come down to battery life. That is a pretty big issue, especially when traveling, but not even close to the worst.



    I *hate* extended reading on the iPad. It causes eyestrain. My gut call is that it's because of the font smoothing. All of the fonts I've tried, in both iBooks and the Kindle app, appear blurry. The pixel density of the iPad screen is just too low for font smoothing, I think, and *none* of the available fonts avoid it. On the handheld devices the fonts appear sharp, and on my PCs they are sharp. But not with the iPad's e-book readers!



    Interestingly, I do not have this issue when reading web pages, nor with the Wired iPad app (I really think magazines on the iPad are a winner), nor with the new NY Times app. None of these use the fonts used in the e-book readers, and all appear much sharper to my eyes. On the other hand, it's rare that I read for very long before bouncing around in any of those (even long Wired articles are usually finished in 5 to 10 minutes); maybe the changing page layouts makes a difference.



    I think the glossy screen makes a big difference, too, even though it never bothered me on my Macbook. The angle at which I use the iPad is much more horizontal than any laptop I've ever owned. That makes it far, far more likely to reflect ceiling lights into my eyes. It's really irritating, enough that I have considered getting one of those laminates to reduce the glare. (Haven't done it yet because I really don't like sticking things to my screens.)



    On top of that eyestrain issues, the iPad really is too heavy as a reader. I literally got tennis elbow within a week of receiving my iPad. I'd never had that before, and I have had to be very careful when holding the iPad for extended periods. It really needs to be propped up. That's no big deal when I'm watching movies with it on a table or pillow but it's kind of a pain when I'm reading in a chair.



    I still love the iPad, and I am totally shocked at how little I use my laptop now, but given my choice I will do extended reading with the Kindle every time. It's much more comfortable to hold, screen glare is much less of a problem, it works in bright light, its fonts are SHARP, and I don't have to worry about the battery dying if I can't recharge it in the evening.



    YMMV, but my opinion stems from having and using both for hours every day. If you love to read, and you're reading novels rather than graphic layouts like magazines, then the Kindle is by far the better choice in my opinion. Even if the screens were equal, the lower weight is by itself a huge improvement. The Kindle is, of course, lousy for non-textual content ... so it's nice to have both if you can do it.



    If I don't have my Kindle I'd still rather read books on the iPhone than on the iPad. You cannot even imagine how much that surprises me.



    jim frost

    [email protected]
  • Reply 32 of 67
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jahonen View Post


    Could it be that there's no real option for laptop use? No use yelling, because no improvement is available from any vendor. Eye strain complaints from computers is someting I hear a lot of people complaining about. Eye strain with backlit sources is real, though the level of discomfort varies by individual. If I can use Kindle to reduce my eye-strain, I use it. I've got both and I don't even feel very comfortable reading comics with the marvel app, but do feel comfortable reading a book on the kindle.



    Almost all computer eye strain is from CRT flicker, interactions with CRT and overhead fluorescent lights, or just plain bad workstation lighting that no monitor could help. A backlight LCD itself when set to an appropriate level for the ambient lighting does not cause eyestrain.





    Quote:

    Personally a colour e-ink with the speed and color fidelity of current LCDs would be the ideal choice. When a laptop or tablet like that becomes available, it's countdown for LCDs in computer use. The opposite of your position would be "When apple comes out with E-ink based tablets with good colour reproduction and response, suddenly eye-strain will become an issue that Apple magically solved and that LCDs are absolutely horrible". Or something different?



    Regs, Jarkko



    Color gamut limitations given non-Sun light source color temperatures and luminosities make that an impossible task for a reflective screen system. To get color light MUST be filtered above the reflective surface, and that drastically cuts reflected luminance and the possible color gamut. Basic physics of simulating a system is the problem here. Unless of course you find a way to nano-build atomic components at runtime from actual materials and properly orient them to the eye and the light source so that a reflected and non-filtered presentation can be made. Is it possible? Maybe, but not in our civilizations lifetime.
  • Reply 33 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post


    Exactly. Amazon was smart and saw the writing on the wall when the iPad was announced. They kicked off an app within record pace.



    Err, the Kindle app was available long before the iPad was even announced. Like, years. I have always loved it for its ability to synchronize between multiple devices; I regularly pull down a book I'm reading on the Kindle onto my iPhone when I'm somewhere without my Kindle, and I missed that immediately with iBooks. (I know there's some kind of sync feature now, but I haven't yet tried it. Mostly I prefer to use the Kindle app because the books are far more portable, and almost always cheaper too.)



    jim frost

    [email protected]
  • Reply 34 of 67
    25% who own an iPad are not satisfied with the device! Sheez...what would it take to satisfy them?



    Sheez!



    Best
  • Reply 35 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    Color gamut limitations given non-Sun light source color temperatures and luminosities make that an impossible task for a reflective screen system. To get color light MUST be filtered above the reflective surface, and that drastically cuts reflected luminance and the possible color gamut. Basic physics of simulating a system is the problem here. Unless of course you find a way to nano-build atomic components at runtime from actual materials and properly orient them to the eye and the light source so that a reflected and non-filtered presentation can be made. Is it possible? Maybe, but not in our civilizations lifetime.



    I don't really see why it should be impossible to use different tints for the e-ink particles, without needing filters. They're not using filters now, right? Their problems seem to be two-fold:



    1. It is difficult to construct small enough pixels to be able to pack them in tight enough for blending when each pixel has to be a particular shade. It's likely this will get solved as the technology matures.



    2. It is difficult to get high levels of contrast, so the colors appear muddy. This may actually be improved faster than #1; it's really amazing how much better the contrast is on a K3 than the K1 or K2.



    I'm not sure they couldn't do pretty well even with muddy colors, though. Much graphic content doesn't need to be vivid to convey the information. Still, I think it'll be a long time before I prefer a Kindle to an iPad for color content.



    jim frost

    [email protected]
  • Reply 36 of 67
    While Kindle is an okay device, it really is transitional. With the rise of iOS devices it was doomed from the start.



    Amazon was smart to release Kindle apps for as many different platforms as they have.



    Selling content is where the real money is. Just ask Apple.
  • Reply 37 of 67
    drdoppiodrdoppio Posts: 1,132member
    Marketing nonsense aside, the Kindle offers an unmatched value: free 3G connection for life! Compare this to a $1000/year data plan...



    - sent from my wife's Kindle
  • Reply 38 of 67
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post


    ... Compare this to a $1000/year data plan...



    ...



    Three questions:
    1. Who is offering a $1000 data plan?

    2. For which device?

    3. On which planet?

  • Reply 39 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLiver View Post


    To my ignore list, Apple fanboy. Keep reading into a light bulb.



    LOL I wonder who's the one going into people's ignore lists.
  • Reply 40 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iLiver View Post


    ... i.e. you can't read an iBook on a Mac or a PC or a Blackberry or a Droid.

    You can with a Kindle eBook.



    ...



    The freeware applicationcalibre provides for reading an iBook on a Mac or a PC.
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