Google rewarms Android Market, still half baked next to iPhone App Store

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  • Reply 61 of 115
    istudistud Posts: 193member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post




    Really? Did it ever occur to you that him posting about KInect admits he was wrong about Natal being vaporware? Too stupid to realize that?




    You are the worst farse around here. Until you provide a link to your claims you are nothing but hot air and a buffoon, or shall we say vapourware? I really don't care one way or the other if DED said or didn't, but if you can't show a single link to the text where he said Natal was vapourware, you are either lying because you have an agenda, or a troll that should leave mum's basement.



    Don't bother answering without providing a link to your claims.
  • Reply 62 of 115
    This article is so one sided it's laughable, but expected since this is Apple Insider talking about a competing technology.



    As a developer for both Android and iOS, a lot of the arguments in the article and the comments that follow are simply misinformed. I'll clear some of these differences up so Android users don't have to troll and iOS lovers don't have an inferiority complex.



    Quality of apps in Android Market vs App Store



    This argument is old and just plain wrong. The quality of both stores' apps are about the same. iOS is full of crap .99 apps that are utterly useless. Anyone remember the fart apps that filled the app store so much Apple specifically told developers they weren't going to approve any more? What about Android's "insert intellectual property" slide puzzle apps that blanket the market? The truth of the matter is that both stores are full of CRAP. The App Store is filled with more crap due to the size but the ratio of crap will probably be about the same. Furthermore, what's one man's junk is another man's treasure. A nice metaphor to describe an open market (economics not Android) where the consumer decides what is crap. Objectively this is a subjective argument because difference of opinions as to what's quality.



    Security



    This argument is partially the fault of ignorance and OS compatibilities. Both OSs use a ton of open source software. Android just opens all of it while Apple only opens what they're required to open to comply with the license. The difference comes into who's the gatekeeper of the apps. Apple doesn't allow developers to compete with Apple directly. While one may be able to use the private APIs to receive messages about the devices state or events, doing so will get your app banned from the store. Even accessing the open source software Apple used to build the damn OS will get you banned. Google on the other hand isn't the gatekeeper (usually, depending on carrier) to what you install on your device because you can install apps outside of the market. In order not to sacrifice that freedom, they decided to provide warning messages (which most users ignore) about what the app has access to. Unfortunately, bad design by Google make apps ask for full permission when they only wanted a single thing. Want to have your app send a text message to your friends, well you're going to have to ask for permission to read the text message database in the phone in your meta file (like plist for iOS if you're curious) and permission to do things "that cost money." You can't specify just "send messages only," yet.



    Piracy and Intellectual Property



    This argument is unnecessarily one sided too. Both of these platforms use IP without regard to who actually owns the IP. Apple is a little better at detecting copyright infringement but a thief of IP themselves. For instance, only in the App Store have developers found themselves suddenly banned from the store when Apple patents their app, right down to the GUI in the diagrams. Google just let's IP infringement run rampant on their market with very little way to file a legitimate DMCA notice (Location of infringement: err... the Android Market?). At the same time, policing apps on Android Market is a waste of time because apps can be installed from anywhere else. Infringers could simply pay for an adMob ad that links to their Apk file on the web somewhere and the user would install it without even looking at the security notice (see above about Android security).



    As for piracy, enabling is the key factor here. I think it's disingenuous to say Android users are all pirates. I know a ton of Android users who never download anything outside of the market; however, Android's open ecosystem is the enabler of piracy. I can text everyone on my contact list a short URL to an apk file on the net and most of them (depending on the carrier) can install the app without question. Would these people rather steal an app than pay for it? That's debatable, as I'm sure most of these users wouldn't know they were stealing an app since there's no way to distinguish a paid app vs unpaid app on an Android device, except through the Android Market. I would ask the developer why he hasn't done anything to encourage the app user to pay for the app. Push an update out to the Market and see if you can get people to purchase the app (since they can't update without paying for the app first). iOS is slightly different but not immune. Anyone with a jail broken device has heard of installous--the one stop shop for all paid apps pirated. While installous would like to make the "try before you buy because Apple doesn't give refunds" excuse as the reason for its existence, everyone knows it's being used to pirate apps and provide an easy way to do it, full of descriptions, screenshots, and even the price. I was shocked to even find my apps there before I went to a "free to play, just touch an ad every now and then" distribution model. Piracy on iOS comes with the price of loss of support from Apple if your device goes haywire, but it's just as rampant.



    Hardware

    This is one argument that I find ridiculous. Mostly because proponents of both sides ignore the fact that the parts in these devices are made by just a handful of manufactures. Apple doesn't have a chip fabrication factory somewhere in China. They pay samsung or foxxconn for that. LCD screens for mobile devices come from about 6 manufactures in Asia. The ability to execute great software with hardware is where Apple finds the competitive advantage, but anyone running 4.2 on an iPhone 3G can testify that it's not always superb. Android devices tend to outpace iOS by miles in terms of hardware while Apple outpaces Android in ease of use in software. I do agree that Android device hardware tends to be outdated by the time its released, but so has every computer, including Macs, for the last 15 years. Moore's law is reappearing in the mobile landscape again. This is general good for Android proponents because it will eventually reduce the price of new devices as the competitive environment heats up. Apple will do as they always have: wait until most of the hardware is obsolete, add a few innovations, mark up the price astronomically, and rake in the profits. Nothing wrong with that model either as it's worked for Apple every since Job's return. They've got $40 billion in cash with the highest margins in the industry and since they continue to target the lower upper and upper middle class markets, I don't see this position changing. Why Apple fanboys are crying that Apple lower the price on iOS devices to attract the working class is beyond me and not very business smart either. Apple doesn't and shouldn't release a new device with the latest and fastest parts every three months to be competitive.



    I apologize for the long post, but both sets of Android and iOS fanboys/girls are claiming superiority when in reality they're both not wearing any clothes. *
  • Reply 63 of 115
    istudistud Posts: 193member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yeshuawatso View Post


    This article is so one sided it's laughable, but expected since this is Apple Insider talking about a competing technology.



    As a developer for both Android and iOS, a lot of the arguments in the article and the comments that follow are simply misinformed. I'll clear some of these differences up so Android users don't have to troll and iOS lovers don't have an inferiority complex.





    I apologize for the long post, but both sets of Android and iOS fanboys/girls are claiming superiority when in reality they're both not wearing any clothes. *



    If this was supposed to be a well balanced, unbiased post, it failed miserably. You are as biased as DED, but at the other end. Clothes, or not.
  • Reply 64 of 115
    nagrommenagromme Posts: 2,834member
    Apple?s driving target market is us users.



    Google?s driving target market is advertisers.



    That?s going to affect the experience!



    (As for carriers who want to control users, Apple stand on our side in that battle, while Google caters to the carriers for the sake of getting ads in front of as many people as possible.)
  • Reply 65 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post


    Right. For you too:







    This actually proves the point that people are going to allow Android apps to do whatever the heck the app wants. Why is Tetris asking for all those permissions? Doesn't make sense. It really is Vista UAC all over again.



    As you or someone mentioned maybe the issue is lack of granularity in the asking for permissions.
  • Reply 66 of 115
    tjwtjw Posts: 216member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nagromme View Post


    Apple?s driving target market is us users.



    Google?s driving target market is advertisers.



    That?s going to affect the experience!



    (As for carriers who want to control users, Apple stand on our side in that battle, while Google caters to the carriers for the sake of getting ads in front of as many people as possible.)



    You are completely misguided. You suggest google sits down with carriers and asks what they want to do with it. You will actually find that google build an open operating system and then let people do what they want with it. It is not restrictive. Consumers can then choose whether they want a phone with some of the carrier extras and the free market chooses what is best.
  • Reply 67 of 115
    istudistud Posts: 193member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tjw View Post


    You are completely misguided. You suggest google sits down with carriers and asks what they want to do with it. You will actually find that google build an open operating system and then let people do what they want with it. It is not restrictive. Consumers can then choose whether they want a phone with some of the carrier extras and the free market chooses what is best.



    Why does Google call it open then? What you describe sounds not open at all!
  • Reply 68 of 115
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,995member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tjw View Post


    You are completely misguided. You suggest google sits down with carriers and asks what they want to do with it. You will actually find that google build an open operating system and then let people do what they want with it. It is not restrictive. Consumers can then choose whether they want a phone with some of the carrier extras and the free market chooses what is best.



    Service providers can also customize Android to their heart's content. The result is that Android is poorly defined. I could paint "Android" on a brick and sell it as a handset. A free market gets confused by this variability/lack of standardization and, consequently, operates inefficiently. Developers don't necessarily know what to expect and consumers buy into a product based on misinformation.
  • Reply 69 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


    A great perspective on how Android buyers are being grossly misled about what a crappy OS Android is. The majority of Android device owners are buying devices that are already obsolete the day they receive them, and are totally misled about the supposed "advantages", features and functions of these devices. The carriers and handset makers certainly command some of the blame for this situation as their laziness and inability to develop their own inventive and innovative platforms is causing them to take this easy road around a truly superior platform presented in the iPhone, iPad and iOS.



    The other twits buying these devices are the unethical techtards who think that it makes them special to be able to customize every single device in their lives to their hearts content, and that its ok to steal content from others. The fact that almost HALF of the US users of a major developer's game are stealing it is offensive yet these toads think its perfectly OK, and Google somehow thinks its OK to facilitate these thefts unencumbered. Shameless.



    Wakeup people before you buy this unsafe, misleading and unethical Android junkware.



    Bless you FREERANGE!

    I'm going to be laughing my a** off all day while thinking about what you wrote. As the brits would say. SPOT ON!!

    I love good tech and probably like like you I have gone through so much tech junk over the years I cry thinking about all that money I spent back in days.

    But today my tech consist of iPad(16 gig wifi/3G), 16 gig iPhone 4, 13inch MacBook aluminum before it became a MacBook pro and a psp( God Of War edition:red)and the 250 gig ps3. My sh** is complete!!! Apple tv next week and boom. That's all she wrote.

    Android? I'd rather roast on a smoking pile of oak for being accused a damn witch than touch that crap.

    The fit and finish. The experienrce. Apple's swag is as top tier as you can get.
  • Reply 70 of 115
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    look, all differences between the Android and iOS app stores and other things boil down to the different basic business models of Apple and Google:



    for Apple, in the end YOU are the CUSTOMER. they want to sell you hardware. their profit comes from those hardware sales. they want you to buy other Apple ecosystem hardware too (and most do).



    for Google, YOU are the MERCHANDISE they sell to advertisers - who are their real customers. their profit comes from ad sales. the telcos are also trying to get a cut of this action somehow too.



    this is the cold-blooded reality that all the Android fans are in denial about and refuse to face head on. instead they fall for the "open" b.s. hook, line, and sinker, and lock their digital souls up in the Google cloud.



    yeah, i'm exaggerating a bit there. but not much!
  • Reply 71 of 115
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lolwhat View Post


    Those are two different games.



    I can only assume that you mistakenly linked to the incorrect Android video, so I took the liberty of finding the correct one for you.



    You're welcome!



    You are aware of the difference between a TRAILER (i.e. a movie made by a company to advertise a game) and ACTUAL GAMEPLAY.



    It's like the difference between a Big Mac on a poster and what you see when you open the bag.
  • Reply 72 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


    Dude bad example. Of course handcent SMS needs permission to access one's SMS/MMS msgs because its a SMS app or else it wouldn't work.



    It was to compare a normal sms app vs. the wall paper app. It's all good.
  • Reply 73 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    This actually proves the point that people are going to allow Android apps to do whatever the heck the app wants. Why is Tetris asking for all those permissions? Doesn't make sense. It really is Vista UAC all over again.



    As you or someone mentioned maybe the issue is lack of granularity in the asking for permissions.



    True, ios has it, but I cannot confirm if Android has it because I don't have one.



    But to blame Google/Android for this is just as bad as blaming Apple for allowing someone to install "codecs" for quicktime which are really trojans.
  • Reply 74 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    You are aware of the difference between a TRAILER (i.e. a movie made by a company to advertise a game) and ACTUAL GAMEPLAY.



    It's like the difference between a Big Mac on a poster and what you see when you open the bag.



    Look the same to me.



    Regardless, these arguments remind me of my middle school days of us arguing who had better graphics, SNES or Genesis.
  • Reply 75 of 115
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tjw View Post


    Tch the google I/O 2010 conference video. They're never going to make a desktop client, it's so backwards to have a phone sync with a computer it is unreal! Unlike apple google have hears of something called the INTERNET. Perfect for transferring and syncing data. If google ever release their web based android market then it would totally blow iTunes away. iTunes is stupid bloatware left over from last generations gadget (the iPod) that apple seem to cram everything they think someone needs for iOS into. Where is the logic of a tablet computer having to sync with desktop music software before you can even turn it on for the first time?



    This leads to another point. Apple fanboys always point to android and laugh at the time it takes for an OS update. Let's consider the update process of both platforms: iPhone you have to connect your phone to a computer, if it's a mac this part runs ok, if not the fun begins with apples joke coding efforts for PCs. Then most likely you have to download a new version of iBloat otherwise known as iTunes, just to download the update! Then wait for iBloat to install and reconnect your device. By this time I start to get really pissed off. Then you connect your iPhone again. Then and only then can you download the update when prompted. Then you have to perform a sync and full back up and finally you can transfer the update.



    Compare to android: notification appears on phone, click ok to apply update. Done!



    Furthermore apple want to take this further by adding more bloat to

    iTunes with a mac app store. The model is so backwards it's beyond belief!



    What's this, then?



    At least iTunes is available on more than one platform.



    Sure glad I don't have to sync over 25GB of files OTA, it would take forever with my 1.5Mbps ADSL connection and cost too much with my 2GB phone plan.



    I sync with iTunes when I'm charging via USB, which I do while I sleep.
  • Reply 76 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iStud View Post


    You are the worst farse around here. Until you provide a link to your claims you are nothing but hot air and a buffoon, or shall we say vapourware? I really don't care one way or the other if DED said or didn't, but if you can't show a single link to the text where he said Natal was vapourware, you are either lying because you have an agenda, or a troll that should leave mum's basement.



    Don't bother answering without providing a link to your claims.



    Is this the best you can do? Are you english? Wrong colour today?



    Well I guess you are even more retarded than Archos because he himself quoted from roughlydrafted himself. But I guess you can't do that, sooooo



    No, I'll let you use your find function yourself. Search for the word "bullshit". That's right, "bullshit", and you will find it. Yes, on this very page.



    Oh, and btw, he wrote that in Oct 2009, when Microsoft provided demos of Natal, even on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon.



    http://www.gametrailers.com/user-mov...t-natal/320589



    THAT was back in June of 09. But hell, providing actual demos on broadcast TV won't stop him from calling it vaporware. Suck on that Archos.



    DED is RIGHT on the crap Microsoft did. But he is clearly wrong on Natal. That's it. Oh, and of course, Win7 and the other stupid crap he posted earlier.
  • Reply 77 of 115
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post


    Look the same to me.



    Regardless, these arguments remind me of my middle school days of us arguing who had better graphics, SNES or Genesis.



    /yawn,whatever.
  • Reply 78 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    /yawn,whatever.



    Out of interest, why did you link to a completely different game when you responded to me earlier?



    You come across as someone who is taking this personally.
  • Reply 79 of 115
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bongo View Post


    There are tons of advantages for both platforms. Android's just suits more people better. Which is why Android outsells iPhones 2:1.



    there is a difference between selling android devices to apple's 2:1, which is NOT happening and what is actually happening. What is android BOGO Free that EVERY android device after less than a month being released. I laugh because there is a 3-4 week window, and after that any device with Android on a carrier with a contract is sold as BOGO...android whores its OS to any crap device and it still has to OUTFREE...not outSELL.



    Apple never has to GIVE AWAY a thing. in fact they can not make them fast enough.



    That's a huge difference....
  • Reply 80 of 115
    drdoppiodrdoppio Posts: 1,132member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yeshuawatso View Post


    ...

    I apologize for the long post, but both sets of Android and iOS fanboys/girls are claiming superiority when in reality they're both not wearing any clothes. *



    Thank you for the balanced opinion. No need to apologize, your post solely justified the existence of this thread.
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