iPad is the only tablet with any real market momentum right now. Apple wins by simply delivering more of the same only better, that is: lighter, more storage/ram, and only 1 or 2 more features (cameras and maybe cellular as standard) at the same price. Slightly smaller bezel, thinner or reduced weight as much as technology will allow... this is what Apple cares about. I thought we all would've learned that by now?
I don't believe Apple will ever be adding ports to the iPad. They want the device to be wireless, in fact Apple's entire philosophy seems to be based around wireless. I think if they had their way, they would get rid of ports and wires completely. The copycats will be adding HDMI, USB and so on. I would seriously never expect any of this here. At some point, Wifi and Airplay could become a better solution, so why would we want ports?
Apple will still have a leg up on the competition even if the iPad seems lower spec'd compared to others simply for one reason: none of them will be shipping anytime soon. All those honeycomb based tablets announced at CES? Practically vapor. Those companies typically don't have price points or delivery dates locked down. Meanwhile iPad 2 will be in stores with hundreds of thousands of apps and a thriving accessory market... I just don't see how these other tablets compete with that this year.
I think Apple will continue to put off certain hardware features as long as they can because they're able to. Dual core A9 based cpus? Not this year. iPad as a standalone computer? Probably at least 2 years away, if not longer.
That's an interesting subject by itself: the moment they make the iPad completely standalone with the full compliment of PC features, it becomes a competitor to the Mac. Apple is benefiting right now by making the iPad a PC accessory. Yaknow, alot of people can afford a desktop wintel PC but not a macbook, even though they want one. But they can afford the iPad, and so the iPad becomes their inexpensive laptop. This also begins to become a stealth PC replacement... the ideal outcome for Apple with these customers is they do begin to regard Apple as a viable option, and instead of saving up for wintel notebooks or buying crapware netbooks they instead buy iPads to compliment their desktop PC's. Eventually, they may come to realize that the desktop PC does less and less for them each year as the iPad does more and more.
The end result after this slow boil is Apple = 1, Wintel = 0.
iPad is the only tablet with any real market momentum right now. Apple wins by simply delivering more of the same only better, that is: lighter, more storage/ram, and only 1 or 2 more features (cameras and maybe cellular as standard) at the same price. Slightly smaller bezel, thinner or reduced weight as much as technology will allow... this is what Apple cares about. I thought we all would've learned that by now?
Apple is in the driver seat much like they have been with iPhone. Thus I expect them to be just as agressive in keeping that lead. That means making it very very difficult for the competition to compete with a solid combination of hardware and software.
This is entirely different than the Mac platform where they have to struggle for market share.
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I don't believe Apple will ever be adding ports to the iPad. They want the device to be wireless, in fact Apple's entire philosophy seems to be based around wireless.
Good for Apple but I'm a customer and as such they need to listen to me and others that want more I/O on the device. An SD slot and a USB port would be huge. Admittedly a USB port causes driver issues but still it could be very useful.
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I think if they had their way, they would get rid of ports and wires completely. The copycats will be adding HDMI, USB and so on.
HDMI is pretty stupid but USB is not. It is all about flexibility and novel uses.
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I would seriously never expect any of this here. At some point, Wifi and Airplay could become a better solution, so why would we want ports?
Simple. USB is low cost and very very reliable. It allows for a vast expansion in potential applications.
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Apple will still have a leg up on the competition even if the iPad seems lower spec'd compared to others simply for one reason: none of them will be shipping anytime soon.
Are you sure? They will ship no matter how bad the software.
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All those honeycomb based tablets announced at CES? Practically vapor. Those companies typically don't have price points or delivery dates locked down. Meanwhile iPad 2 will be in stores with hundreds of thousands of apps and a thriving accessory market... I just don't see how these other tablets compete with that this year.
They won't real well. However you don't want to underestimate some of the coming hardware.
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I think Apple will continue to put off certain hardware features as long as they can because they're able to. Dual core A9 based cpus? Not this year. iPad as a standalone computer? Probably at least 2 years away, if not longer.
Well I won't buy until they do upgrade the SoC. I believe many others would agree with the idea that iPad needs better performance. Besides quad core A9 based SoC are already taping out. By the end of the year a dual core A9 product might look rather sad. In the end though I believe Apple will upgrade the SoC simply because they need to to realize their own goals for the iPad.
The issue of iPad being stand alone is more interesting. I really like the arraingement with my iPhone but frankly I'm not convinced with respect to iPad. However this is an area where competition can impact Apple.
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That's an interesting subject by itself: the moment they make the iPad completely standalone with the full compliment of PC features,
It doesn't need a full compliment of PC features to be standalone. I'm not sure where that idea comes from. In fact if you get Apple to initialize the device in one of it's stores it ends up pretty much standalone.
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it becomes a competitor to the Mac. Apple is benefiting right now by making the iPad a PC accessory. Yaknow, alot of people can afford a desktop wintel PC but not a macbook, even though they want one. But they can afford the iPad, and so the iPad becomes their inexpensive laptop. This also begins to become a stealth PC replacement... the ideal outcome for Apple with these customers is they do begin to regard Apple as a viable option, and instead of saving up for wintel notebooks or buying crapware netbooks they instead buy iPads to compliment their desktop PC's. Eventually, they may come to realize that the desktop PC does less and less for them each year as the iPad does more and more.
The end result after this slow boil is Apple = 1, Wintel = 0.
People are already recognizing Apple as a viable PC platform and that has nothing to do with iPad.
Well I won't buy until they do upgrade the SoC. I believe many others would agree with the idea that iPad needs better performance. Besides quad core A9 based SoC are already taping out. By the end of the year a dual core A9 product might look rather sad. In the end though I believe Apple will upgrade the SoC simply because they need to to realize their own goals for the iPad.
I agree that improved SOCs might be less a competitive response than aloowing Apple the means to take the iPad to where they want.
I have a hard time seeing Apple adding an SD slot - it would encourage people to buy the lower-specced product and bring their own storage. If they do, expect to see no more than two option for storage capacity - small and very large.
I agree that improved SOCs might be less a competitive response than aloowing Apple the means to take the iPad to where they want.
I have a hard time seeing Apple adding an SD slot - it would encourage people to buy the lower-specced product and bring their own storage. If they do, expect to see no more than two option for storage capacity - small and very large.
Apple wouldn't allow the SD card to function as extra storage. It would only be for moving pictures from a camera to the iPad. Jailbreaking obviously could change that, but Apple wouldn't do it.
I agree that improved SOCs might be less a competitive response than aloowing Apple the means to take the iPad to where they want.
I have a hard time seeing Apple adding an SD slot - it would encourage people to buy the lower-specced product and bring their own storage. If they do, expect to see no more than two option for storage capacity - small and very large.
There's no need to add an SD slot, functionally I think Apple doesn't believe in the technology. This is a feature that nerds want, not consumers.
There's no need to add an SD slot, functionally I think Apple doesn't believe in the technology. This is a feature that nerds want, not consumers.
Then why'd they put it on all their CONSUMER devices and only leave it off their highest-end PROFESSIONAL (read: nerds) machines?
I'm not agreeing with the iPad-SD-slot-idea, just showing you that Apple cares enough to have included SDXC card slots when SDXC cards don't really even exist yet.
Looks to me like Apple isn't going to drop the ball like they did with CD and DVD capabilities.
Good for Apple but I'm a customer and as such they need to listen to me and others that want more I/O on the device.
Hmm... no they don't.
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An SD slot and a USB port would be huge. Admittedly a USB port causes driver issues but still it could be very useful.
HDMI is pretty stupid but USB is not. It is all about flexibility and novel uses.
This strikes me as very un-Apple. But don't take my word for it, lets see how the iPad2 looks when they introduce it. I guarantee that no iPad will ever have HDMI, SD card or USB.
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However you don't want to underestimate some of the coming hardware.
There's no reason right now to believe any of the coming hardware will be able to knock the iPad from its throne. And as I said before with that coming hardware, it's coming too late if ever. Half of them probably won't even ship. The ones that do will compete on features and price, and like the iPod has proven, competing with Apple on features and price is a losing bargain.
Look at the list... many of these supposed ship dates will slip. Why? They're dependent on Honeycomb to deliver on time, fat chance of that. But assuming they even get past the Honeycomb issue, there are a number of problems here: many are 7", which people won't want. Some are by companies that can't deliver, no reason to think they'll be able to get the hardware and glass together in any kind of quantity. Many more haven't declared prices, and losing on price vs Apple is not sustainable. Some will ship tablets with android 2, which may as well be a death sentence. And win7 tablets truly are DOA.
The list is long, but the number of actual tablet competitors can be counted on one hand.
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Well I won't buy until they do upgrade the SoC. I believe many others would agree with the idea that iPad needs better performance. Besides quad core A9 based SoC are already taping out. By the end of the year a dual core A9 product might look rather sad. In the end though I believe Apple will upgrade the SoC simply because they need to to realize their own goals for the iPad.
Well that is you but not the vast majority of consumers. All they see is that apps run fast and nimbly, and they do. So nerds will have some problems with the iPad2 if it doesn't get an upgraded CPU, but it won't impact sales one bit.
Your assertion that 'many others' agree that iPad needs better performance just doesn't hold true. I'm sure some minority of geeks and some developers believe this to be true, but for the vast majority of users... no. It runs Angry Birds just great from what I've seen.
However on this point I will grant that if they did upgrade the CPU it would be a welcome surprise. I don't expect it this soon, but if they do it great. I already have an iPad and I'm probably getting an iPad2, and I'm more likely to do it if they upgrade the internals.
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The issue of iPad being stand alone is more interesting. I really like the arraingement with my iPhone but frankly I'm not convinced with respect to iPad. However this is an area where competition can impact Apple.
Not having it be standalone is clearly working for them! Like I noted before, alot of people have cheap PCs. These people can't afford Macbooks, but they can afford iPads. The iPad plugs into their PC and now they have an Apple branded 'laptop' they can afford. This relationship is working, no need to change it anytime soon.
Competitors that make their tablets completely standalone from the PC don't really help themselves in terms of sales, in fact it might even hurt them just a bit right now. Again this might be a better proposition for nerds but not so good for average people who already use iTunes.
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People are already recognizing Apple as a viable PC platform and that has nothing to do with iPad.
I'll grant you that there are a number of people who want Macbooks who can't afford them, or who have iPods or use iTunes with a somewhat favorable view of Apple. This is to Apple's credit and it's taken a long time for them to build up (rebuild?) that reputation.
I think the iPad further solidifies this though. It does it in a way that the Mac, the iPod and iTunes haven't been able to. The iPad is a PC replacement, whether people realize it or not. Many people will be getting this instead of some other kind of PC, probably a PC notebook or tablet but maybe even desktop hardware.
If it was just a question of getting cheap Apple branded computer hardware, then why didn't the mac mini take off? Why isn't Apple selling 16 million mac minis per quarter? It costs about the same. It's no more or less upgradeable than an iPad (slightly more upgradeable maybe). By most measurable standards it has superior hardware and software, it has lots of ports! Why doesn't that help it? It runs real desktop software, OSX! It has a far more powerful CPU, dual core even!
I have to conclude that many of these hardware features don't matter when it comes to actual sales. What I have to conclude is that people want mobile computing, and they want it in form factors that feel right, run well and reliably. Ports and processors don't matter, as long as the perception is that it does what you want and it's fast. Even the OS doesn't really matter, as long as it works, is trusted and understood. Most people probably make these determinations when they're standing around using one for the first time in an Apple store or Best Buy.
Maybe the iPod touch got them there better than any Mac ever made. Apple has sold alot of iPod touches lately and the iPad is basically a bigger one of those. iPod touches sell really well and are basically very small mobile computers. Average consumers, who aren't into computers but need to do basic things like email and web probably view the iPod touch as a viable PC alternative. I know I have some nominally computer literate relatives who look at it this way.
So maybe you're right, maybe people view Apple as a viable PC platform because of the iPod. If that were true it would make sense for Apple to create a more serious computing platform, the iPad tablet PC, based off the iPod/iPhone rather than the Mac. Which is what they've done, so good for them.
Then why'd they put it on all their CONSUMER devices and only leave it off their highest-end PROFESSIONAL (read: nerds) machines?
I'm not agreeing with the iPad-SD-slot-idea, just showing you that Apple cares enough to have included SDXC card slots when SDXC cards don't really even exist yet.
Looks to me like Apple isn't going to drop the ball like they did with CD and DVD capabilities.
Bleh I think you're trying to get me on a technicality. My point is that Apple won't be putting SD slots into iPads, probably ever, because they can more easily make this decision with a clean slate (uh... you like puns?).
However with traditional PCs there are certain expectations. Yes they will and have often bucked those expectations by killing the floppy drive, or the DVD drive, or getting rid of ADB, ignoring bluray, or whatever. There's not always a clear set of logic behind it either, and it doesn't make sense for everyone. But it makes sense for Apple and so they do it. So there! Or something... I need a cookie.
I agree that improved SOCs might be less a competitive response than aloowing Apple the means to take the iPad to where they want.
I have a hard time seeing Apple adding an SD slot - it would encourage people to buy the lower-specced product and bring their own storage. If they do, expect to see no more than two option for storage capacity - small and very large.
At least in my case this would not happen. The slot would allow for two things of importance to me. One is the fast transfer of files from cameras and two is the storage or backup of movie files. If I'm using my Mac a fairly inexpensive SD card can hold several movies.
A third potential use is for file backup but that would require significant updates from Apple. Either way I just don't see a SD port causing serious issues sales wise. I would still want the biggest unit available for direct internal storage. Plus the current design of the API kinda prevents general purpose usage of the slot.
A final issue with SD is that it would be easy for Apple to support. That is the driver support required is extremely limited. USB on the otherhand is a bag of snakes.
Then why'd they put it on all their CONSUMER devices and only leave it off their highest-end PROFESSIONAL (read: nerds) machines?
I'm not agreeing with the iPad-SD-slot-idea, just showing you that Apple cares enough to have included SDXC card slots when SDXC cards don't really even exist yet.
I'm not sure why the original poster mentally dismissed this factoid. Putting an SD slot in the iPad just makes it a more integrated member of the Apple family of devices.
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Looks to me like Apple isn't going to drop the ball like they did with CD and DVD capabilities.
It does appear that they have some sort of plan for SD support. Obviously with the current iOS that plan can't be fully implemented but I'd be very happy with camera integration. Ideally movie playback from the SD cards also.
Any company that doesn't ends up at risk of loosing customers. Besides Apple has a long history of listening to customers. They directly addressed a suggestion I made with regards to the Mini.
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This strikes me as very un-Apple. But don't take my word for it, lets see how the iPad2 looks when they introduce it. I guarantee that no iPad will ever have HDMI, SD card or USB.
HDMI would be silly but not a SD port. USB is an entirely different matter and would be used extensively if Apple provided a way to load drivers.
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There's no reason right now to believe any of the coming hardware will be able to knock the iPad from its throne. And as I said before with that coming hardware, it's coming too late if ever.
Being late to the party doesn't imply that you can't enjoy yourself. There will be successful tablets beyond iPad. It might take awhile but the markets simply don't like unitary line ups.
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Half of them probably won't even ship. The ones that do will compete on features and price, and like the iPod has proven, competing with Apple on features and price is a losing bargain.
Your logic escapes me here. Features are always a point of competition.
Look at the list... many of these supposed ship dates will slip. Why? They're dependent on Honeycomb to deliver on time, fat chance of that.
Frankly I'd rule out any Android tablet as a viable competitor to iPad. Android is a mess.
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But assuming they even get past the Honeycomb issue, there are a number of problems here: many are 7", which people won't want.
Now we see you have been brain washed by Stevo. 7" tablets will be very hot once a suitable OS is running on them. Amazon has shown with Kindle that size does matter. For many uses a few inches makes a big difference.
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Some are by companies that can't deliver, no reason to think they'll be able to get the hardware and glass together in any kind of quantity. Many more haven't declared prices, and losing on price vs Apple is not sustainable. Some will ship tablets with android 2, which may as well be a death sentence. And win7 tablets truly are DOA.
This thing with price is BS. IPad is a rather high priced device for what it is. As to Win anything at least here we agree DOA.
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The list is long, but the number of actual tablet competitors can be counted on one hand.
Well that is you but not the vast majority of consumers. All they see is that apps run fast and nimbly, and they do.
You saying so doesn't make it so. All you need to do is pick up an iPad and use it for something non trivial. If you still think it is fast then you have a very odd perception if time.
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So nerds will have some problems with the iPad2 if it doesn't get an upgraded CPU, but it won't impact sales one bit.
Sure it will. For one no incentive for current users to upgrade. For another those waiting for a more viable machine will just hold off longer. Finally it will put a big crimp in software development limiting the growth in non trivial software.
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Your assertion that 'many others' agree that iPad needs better performance just doesn't hold true. I'm sure some minority of geeks and some developers believe this to be true, but for the vast majority of users... no. It runs Angry Birds just great from what I've seen.
Angry Birds, come on that game doesn't even stress my 3G. In any event if you put an iPad along side this mythical iPad 2, with a greatly enhanced SoC, it will be very obvious just how slow the current model is.
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However on this point I will grant that if they did upgrade the CPU it would be a welcome surprise. I don't expect it this soon, but if they do it great. I already have an iPad and I'm probably getting an iPad2, and I'm more likely to do it if they upgrade the internals.
in a way you support my position here. Thanks.
I don't think this will be a surprise though as they have had just enough time to build the SoC. Further they are well aware of the competition and the pre baked Cortex A9 chips on the market. In the end I don't think Apple has much of a choice.
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Not having it be standalone is clearly working for them! Like I noted before, alot of people have cheap PCs. These people can't afford Macbooks, but they can afford iPads. The iPad plugs into their PC and now they have an Apple branded 'laptop' they can afford. This relationship is working, no need to change it anytime soon.
No doubt it is working. However I have a problem with your suggestion that you wouldn't be able to plug in a standalone device for syncing or whatever. A standalone device would not give up features.
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Competitors that make their tablets completely standalone from the PC don't really help themselves in terms of sales, in fact it might even hurt them just a bit right now. Again this might be a better proposition for nerds but not so good for average people who already use iTunes.
I don't buy that and infact I'm not sure what your basis is for the claim. A completely standalone tablet would be all that many need. It isn't the nerd that needs standalone devices but rather the casual user.
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I'll grant you that there are a number of people who want Macbooks who can't afford them, or who have iPods or use iTunes with a somewhat favorable view of Apple. This is to Apple's credit and it's taken a long time for them to build up (rebuild?) that reputation.
I was one of the original Mac Plus owners and absolutely loved that little machine. When Apple went through that huge decline I switched over to Linux and ran that for years. I watched the development of Mac OS/X very carefully and jumped back on board in 2008. So yeah I have to say Steve has done an excellent job of rebuilding the company. No OS is perfect but Mac OS/X is simply the best offering going for my needs.
I still wish that Apple was mire agressive price wise but the they come out with the MB AIRs. As long as Apple continues to be aggressive pricing new hardware I'm likely to stay with the platform. It is good to see Apple delivering quality products again.
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I think the iPad further solidifies this though. It does it in a way that the Mac, the iPod and iTunes haven't been able to. The iPad is a PC replacement, whether people realize it or not. Many people will be getting this instead of some other kind of PC, probably a PC notebook or tablet but maybe even desktop hardware.
This brings us back to the standalone discussion. You are right iPad 2 could be everything many people need. The platform does need a few tweaks though to accel as ones onky computing device.
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If it was just a question of getting cheap Apple branded computer hardware, then why didn't the mac mini take off? Why isn't Apple selling 16 million mac minis per quarter? It costs about the same.
Last I knew the Mini was a success. It is not however an XMac. In any event Apples sales have been very strong for the Mac line up so I'm not sure what you point is.
By the way my mention of the XMac highlights my belief that Apple is to big now, their market share too, to not have a more diverse product lineup with respect to Macs.
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It's no more or less upgradeable than an iPad (slightly more upgradeable maybe). By most measurable standards it has superior hardware and software, it has lots of ports! Why doesn't that help it? It runs real desktop software, OSX! It has a far more powerful CPU, dual core even!
First why does it matter for this discussion.
Further for many a Mini is actually to little for a desk top machine. In the end you are trying to compare entirely different devices.
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I have to conclude that many of these hardware features don't matter when it comes to actual sales. What I have to conclude is that people want mobile computing, and they want it in form factors that feel right, run well and reliably. Ports and processors don't matter, as long as the perception is that it does what you want and it's fast. Even the OS doesn't really matter, as long as it works, is trusted and understood. Most people probably make these determinations when they're standing around using one for the first time in an Apple store or Best Buy.
Nope I think you are just confusing yourself. For example using your reasoning I could say iPad is a failure because it doesn't sell as many units as the iPhone. Of course a reasonable person would say: well yeah the devices serve two entirely different markets. Likewise iPad is defining a new market one that isn't directly related to desktop PC users. On top of all of this Apples Mac sales have significantly outstripped the marjet in general. So really you have no point here.
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Maybe the iPod touch got them there better than any Mac ever made. Apple has sold alot of iPod touches lately and the iPad is basically a bigger one of those. iPod touches sell really well and are basically very small mobile computers. Average consumers, who aren't into computers but need to do basic things like email and web probably view the iPod touch as a viable PC alternative. I know I have some nominally computer literate relatives who look at it this way.
Touch, iPhone and the iPad are all computers. Yes very tiny but none the less computers. I don't take this for granted though as even my 3G vastly out strips that old Mac Plus in capability.
So in this regard I don't disagree for many these devices do all that is required. I expect iPad to significantly improve upon that ability.
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So maybe you're right, maybe people view Apple as a viable PC platform because of the iPod. If that were true it would make sense for Apple to create a more serious computing platform, the iPad tablet PC, based off the iPod/iPhone rather than the Mac. Which is what they've done, so good for them.
Im not sure you are interpeting the statements right. iPod certainly gave Apple the ability to make the Mac right. In effect it got them through the tough time where OS/X was coming online. I do question if Apple would have been around with out iPods.
Interesting your calling the iPad a more serious computing platform as I look at it as the ultimate casual platform. Even if used professionally I dint see it as a replacement for traditional computers. Rather it is an alternative approach. I see little benefit to absolute statements here as being a computer it can serve the needs of any user that cares to use the platform.
Bleh I think you're trying to get me on a technicality. My point is that Apple won't be putting SD slots into iPads, probably ever, because they can more easily make this decision with a clean slate (uh... you like puns?).
His point was rational. Further Apple was awfully late to the party implementing SD slots so that blows your arguement away.
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However with traditional PCs there are certain expectations. Yes they will and have often bucked those expectations by killing the floppy drive, or the DVD drive, or getting rid of ADB, ignoring bluray, or whatever. There's not always a clear set of logic behind it either, and it doesn't make sense for everyone. But it makes sense for Apple and so they do it. So there! Or something... I need a cookie.
The question really comes down to this does such a slot benefit Apple and it's users. If so they implement the tech. Dropping ADB in favor of USB is one very significant example.
Implementing a SD slot in the role of a picture transfer device is almost a no brainer. There is little impact to the OS and the actual hardware is trivial. Of all the things I'd like to see in iPad 2 an SD slot is perhaps the least painless for Apple.
In any event I'm hoping we only have a couple of weeks before we find out. In a way I'm really waiting on iPad just to see where Apple is going here.
At least in my case this would not happen. The slot would allow for two things of importance to me. One is the fast transfer of files from cameras and two is the storage or backup of movie files. If I'm using my Mac a fairly inexpensive SD card can hold several movies.
A third potential use is for file backup but that would require significant updates from Apple. Either way I just don't see a SD port causing serious issues sales wise. I would still want the biggest unit available for direct internal storage. Plus the current design of the API kinda prevents general purpose usage of the slot.
A final issue with SD is that it would be easy for Apple to support. That is the driver support required is extremely limited. USB on the otherhand is a bag of snakes.
You make some compelling arguments for a limited-use SD card slot. I don't know that Apple would care much about moving photos, they would be interested if the card slot meant more people buying from iTunes.
You make some compelling arguments for a limited-use SD card slot. I don't know that Apple would care much about moving photos, they would be interested if the card slot meant more people buying from iTunes.
Apple has to recognize that customer needs on the platform are important too. The iPad with an SD slot would be almost idea for a person traveling and engaged in photography. It means that those important pics can be backed up to online storage from just about anywhere. This is a use case that would sell a lot of iPads.
Of course SD isn't perfect here, most pro cameras use Compact Flash, but it covers the majority of cameras out there. Providing for the storage and play back of movie files is just icing on the cake so to speak. In a nut shell it is Camera Connection Kit capability moved onto the device separate from a dongle.
Beyond that if they opened up access to the file system so that apps could use the storage on a SD card there would be additional sales drivers as a result. Especially for some business usages where you might want to record data in the field to non volatile storage that is transferable. Still I see the number one usage being support of picture transfers, followed closely buy movie storage.
Apple has to recognize that customer needs on the platform are important too. The iPad with an SD slot would be almost idea for a person traveling and engaged in photography. It means that those important pics can be backed up to online storage from just about anywhere. This is a use case that would sell a lot of iPads.
Of course SD isn't perfect here, most pro cameras use Compact Flash, but it covers the majority of cameras out there. Providing for the storage and play back of movie files is just icing on the cake so to speak. In a nut shell it is Camera Connection Kit capability moved onto the device separate from a dongle.
Beyond that if they opened up access to the file system so that apps could use the storage on a SD card there would be additional sales drivers as a result. Especially for some business usages where you might want to record data in the field to non volatile storage that is transferable. Still I see the number one usage being support of picture transfers, followed closely buy movie storage.
Apple won't be adding an SD slot to the iPad now or ever. I'll be shocked if they do. No worries though, we'll see won't we?
Apple won't be adding an SD slot to the iPad now or ever. I'll be shocked if they do. No worries though, we'll see won't we?
Of all the additions speculated about this is one of the easier ones for Apple to implement. Plus it satisfys both customer demand and works well with other Apple initiatives.
Of all the additions speculated about this is one of the easier ones for Apple to implement. Plus it satisfys both customer demand and works well with other Apple initiatives.
Ok, I'm not going to waste alot of time on this. But just to set the record straight on a few items...
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Originally Posted by wizard69
Any company that doesn't ends up at risk of loosing customers. Besides Apple has a long history of listening to customers. They directly addressed a suggestion I made with regards to the Mini.
HDMI would be silly but not a SD port. USB is an entirely different matter and would be used extensively if Apple provided a way to load drivers.
Being late to the party doesn't imply that you can't enjoy yourself. There will be successful tablets beyond iPad. It might take awhile but the markets simply don't like unitary line ups.
Practically and functionally speaking, the iPad doesn't need an SD port. It would be silly to add one. The future is wireless. Not more mechanics/moving parts/lack of solid state. In any case an SD port on an iPad would mess with Stevie's feng shui, if you want the real reason why it won't happen. But keep bugging Apple for one all you want.
You are right that USB won't happen. Same for HDMI. Legacy ports are just that... legacy. There I said it. Why include HDMI when the future is Airplay?
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Your logic escapes me here. Features are always a point of competition.
Features are something that competitors have always had on Apple over the various iPod and iOS devices, and it never helped them before. No reason to believe it will help them now. That is the logic here. Consider it Apple Market logic, if that works for you.
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Frankly I'd rule out any Android tablet as a viable competitor to iPad. Android is a mess.
Well now you're underestimating Android, that's not something I would do.
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Now we see you have been brain washed by Stevo. 7" tablets will be very hot once a suitable OS is running on them. Amazon has shown with Kindle that size does matter. For many uses a few inches makes a big difference.
No. 7" tablets don't work, whether they be kindle or whatever. It's too small! A 4" screen works for ultramobile cell phone computing. The next usable size is 9-11", where you have enough space for reasonable tablet computing or book reading. It's distinctly different enough from the really small stuff to be its own thing. 7" tweener tablets are neither here nor there, and users will by and large find them impractical.
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You saying so doesn't make it so. All you need to do is pick up an iPad and use it for something non trivial. If you still think it is fast then you have a very odd perception if time.
I'm saying I don't expect a major CPU upgrade this year. And it is fast enough, plenty fast for most tasks people want to do now. Maybe you haven't played Infinity Blade on the iPad, or use Safari on a regular basis with it, or Mail. These run great, and for now that's what matters.
That said, if they do a CPU upgrade this soon I'll be pleasantly surprised. I won't kick it out of bed. I just don't think they will and I don't think they need to, yet.
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This brings us back to the standalone discussion. You are right iPad 2 could be everything many people need. The platform does need a few tweaks though to accel as ones onky computing device.
As far as I'm concerned this is the future of Apple. Like the Apple II the Mac will eventually go the way of the dodo, but nobody is ready to talk about that yet.
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Last I knew the Mini was a success. It is not however an XMac. In any event Apples sales have been very strong for the Mac line up so I'm not sure what you point is.
The Mini is successful... for a Mac. It has nowhere near the iPad sales at what is functionally the same price. What does that tell you? What does that tell Apple?
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Further for many a Mini is actually to little for a desk top machine. In the end you are trying to compare entirely different devices.
Nope. It's a computer. I'm comparing a computer to a computer.
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Nope I think you are just confusing yourself. For example using your reasoning I could say iPad is a failure because it doesn't sell as many units as the iPhone.
Wrong again. You can't say that because you wouldn't be comparing the devices at comparable points in their releases. But I'm sure that iPad sales in its first quarter far outstrip Mac Mini sales in its first quarter, and that is one of the few bottom lines that matter here.
Fun sparring with ya, but I think I put it to rest.
Ok, I'm not going to waste alot of time on this. But just to set the record straight on a few items...
Practically and functionally speaking, the iPad doesn't need an SD port. It would be silly to add one.
That is your opinion but it isn't a majority opinion by any means. The fact is an SD slot adds a certain functionality that any consumers would make use of.
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The future is wireless. Not more mechanics/moving parts/lack of solid state. In any case an SD port on an iPad would mess with Stevie's feng shui, if you want the real reason why it won't happen. But keep bugging Apple for one all you want.
Well maybe if Apple buys Nikon. The problem is the there are many camera makers all with their own niches to fill. It isn't likely that there will be a standard wireless tech for connecting to all of these, that is cheap enough to implement, any time soon.
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You are right that USB won't happen. Same for HDMI. Legacy ports are just that... legacy. There I said it. Why include HDMI when the future is Airplay?
Legacy doesn't equal bad. As to HDMI I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up.
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Features are something that competitors have always had on Apple over the various iPod and iOS devices, and it never helped them before. No reason to believe it will help them now. That is the logic here. Consider it Apple Market logic, if that works for you.
Apple has lost markets where it didn't compete fully. It is nice to look at Apple success but you can't dismiss the failures.
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Well now you're underestimating Android, that's not something I would do.
In its current form there is no underestimating. Maybe and that is a very big maybe they will get things straight in the tablet release but I'm not holding my breath. It is interesting though that you support Android here but yet a paragraph above was discounting competition based on features. You can't have it both ways.
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No. 7" tablets don't work, whether they be kindle or whatever. It's too small! A 4" screen works for ultramobile cell phone computing. The next usable size is 9-11", where you have enough space for reasonable tablet computing or book reading. It's distinctly different enough from the really small stuff to be its own thing. 7" tweener tablets are neither here nor there, and users will by and large find them impractical.
Well stick your head in the sand if you want but over the holiday I took a driving vacation across a good portion of the country and saw a lot more Kindles than I did iPads. In fact I can't remember seeing any iPads. IPad is just to big for many uses, if you can't wrap your head around that then I can't help you.
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I'm saying I don't expect a major CPU upgrade this year. And it is fast enough, plenty fast for most tasks people want to do now. Maybe you haven't played Infinity Blade on the iPad, or use Safari on a regular basis with it, or Mail. These run great, and for now that's what matters.
Funny but it is the behavior of Safari that is one of the reasons I mentioned the performance issue in the first place. If you have lower standards that is fine by me but I'm always a little ticked when my GUI becomes sluggish.
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That said, if they do a CPU upgrade this soon I'll be pleasantly surprised. I won't kick it out of bed. I just don't think they will and I don't think they need to, yet.
Well I think they need to and frankly I suspect Apple feels the same way, iPad isn't even competitive with iPhone 4 and likely won't be competitive with iPhone 5 if they don't do something. In any event we really shouldn't be comparing iPad to cell phones, it should be in a class of performance that is a step above whatever iPhone is shipping instead of a step back.
I'm pretty much convinced that they need to as soon as possible. The platform is really hurting because of the current computing hardware installed.
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As far as I'm concerned this is the future of Apple. Like the Apple II the Mac will eventually go the way of the dodo, but nobody is ready to talk about that yet.
Actually I see the opposite the Mac will get even stronger as it becomes the digital lifestyle hub that Apple alluded to a few years ago. It might end up integrated into a TV of a file server for a closet but it will still be a Mac.
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The Mini is successful... for a Mac. It has nowhere near the iPad sales at what is functionally the same price. What does that tell you? What does that tell Apple?
Relative to Mac slaes the Mini has been successful. The problem is you are comparing Apples to Plums here. As I said the same reasoning would make the iPad look like a failure if compared to an iPhone. Failure to recognize the different markets here is your problem.
Beyond all of that the iPad is really the first viable tablet device to come around in recent times. No body has owned a similar device thus strong sales to fill an open void. You can not compare that market to the mature market that is the PC industry.
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Nope. It's a computer. I'm comparing a computer to a computer.
So is my iPhone. However it is not in any way comparable to a laptop or desktop PC.
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Wrong again. You can't say that because you wouldn't be comparing the devices at comparable points in their releases. But I'm sure that iPad sales in its first quarter far outstrip Mac Mini sales in its first quarter, and that is one of the few bottom lines that matter here.
Obviously you have problem realizing the difference in markets here. IPad fills a need that has never been filled before, neither by Apple nor by any other computer maker. It is not the traditional PC market at all. In other words they are selling into a vacuum that at the moment can take whatever they make. It really isn't the Mac market at all as Mac sales are stronger than ever.
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Fun sparring with ya, but I think I put it to rest.
Actually I do enjoy your comments as it does cause one to think. As to putting it to rest, well I'm waiting for iPad 2 which I hope is coming real soon now. That will put the discussion to rest for this rev. As it is iPad 2 will have lots of new tech anyway you look at it.
Well stick your head in the sand if you want but over the holiday I took a driving vacation across a good portion of the country and saw a lot more Kindles than I did iPads. In fact I can't remember seeing any iPads. IPad is just to big for many uses, if you can't wrap your head around that then I can't help you.
I agree with just about everything in your post except the above. Comparing the iPad to the Kindle tells us very little about screen-size preferences since they are a different class of devices both in terms of feature set and price.
At any rate, I will not be particularly surprised if Apple introduces a smaller format iPad.
Comments
I don't believe Apple will ever be adding ports to the iPad. They want the device to be wireless, in fact Apple's entire philosophy seems to be based around wireless. I think if they had their way, they would get rid of ports and wires completely. The copycats will be adding HDMI, USB and so on. I would seriously never expect any of this here. At some point, Wifi and Airplay could become a better solution, so why would we want ports?
Apple will still have a leg up on the competition even if the iPad seems lower spec'd compared to others simply for one reason: none of them will be shipping anytime soon. All those honeycomb based tablets announced at CES? Practically vapor. Those companies typically don't have price points or delivery dates locked down. Meanwhile iPad 2 will be in stores with hundreds of thousands of apps and a thriving accessory market... I just don't see how these other tablets compete with that this year.
I think Apple will continue to put off certain hardware features as long as they can because they're able to. Dual core A9 based cpus? Not this year. iPad as a standalone computer? Probably at least 2 years away, if not longer.
That's an interesting subject by itself: the moment they make the iPad completely standalone with the full compliment of PC features, it becomes a competitor to the Mac. Apple is benefiting right now by making the iPad a PC accessory. Yaknow, alot of people can afford a desktop wintel PC but not a macbook, even though they want one. But they can afford the iPad, and so the iPad becomes their inexpensive laptop. This also begins to become a stealth PC replacement... the ideal outcome for Apple with these customers is they do begin to regard Apple as a viable option, and instead of saving up for wintel notebooks or buying crapware netbooks they instead buy iPads to compliment their desktop PC's. Eventually, they may come to realize that the desktop PC does less and less for them each year as the iPad does more and more.
The end result after this slow boil is Apple = 1, Wintel = 0.
iPad is the only tablet with any real market momentum right now. Apple wins by simply delivering more of the same only better, that is: lighter, more storage/ram, and only 1 or 2 more features (cameras and maybe cellular as standard) at the same price. Slightly smaller bezel, thinner or reduced weight as much as technology will allow... this is what Apple cares about. I thought we all would've learned that by now?
Apple is in the driver seat much like they have been with iPhone. Thus I expect them to be just as agressive in keeping that lead. That means making it very very difficult for the competition to compete with a solid combination of hardware and software.
This is entirely different than the Mac platform where they have to struggle for market share.
I don't believe Apple will ever be adding ports to the iPad. They want the device to be wireless, in fact Apple's entire philosophy seems to be based around wireless.
Good for Apple but I'm a customer and as such they need to listen to me and others that want more I/O on the device. An SD slot and a USB port would be huge. Admittedly a USB port causes driver issues but still it could be very useful.
I think if they had their way, they would get rid of ports and wires completely. The copycats will be adding HDMI, USB and so on.
HDMI is pretty stupid but USB is not. It is all about flexibility and novel uses.
I would seriously never expect any of this here. At some point, Wifi and Airplay could become a better solution, so why would we want ports?
Simple. USB is low cost and very very reliable. It allows for a vast expansion in potential applications.
Apple will still have a leg up on the competition even if the iPad seems lower spec'd compared to others simply for one reason: none of them will be shipping anytime soon.
Are you sure? They will ship no matter how bad the software.
All those honeycomb based tablets announced at CES? Practically vapor. Those companies typically don't have price points or delivery dates locked down. Meanwhile iPad 2 will be in stores with hundreds of thousands of apps and a thriving accessory market... I just don't see how these other tablets compete with that this year.
They won't real well. However you don't want to underestimate some of the coming hardware.
I think Apple will continue to put off certain hardware features as long as they can because they're able to. Dual core A9 based cpus? Not this year. iPad as a standalone computer? Probably at least 2 years away, if not longer.
Well I won't buy until they do upgrade the SoC. I believe many others would agree with the idea that iPad needs better performance. Besides quad core A9 based SoC are already taping out. By the end of the year a dual core A9 product might look rather sad. In the end though I believe Apple will upgrade the SoC simply because they need to to realize their own goals for the iPad.
The issue of iPad being stand alone is more interesting. I really like the arraingement with my iPhone but frankly I'm not convinced with respect to iPad. However this is an area where competition can impact Apple.
That's an interesting subject by itself: the moment they make the iPad completely standalone with the full compliment of PC features,
It doesn't need a full compliment of PC features to be standalone. I'm not sure where that idea comes from. In fact if you get Apple to initialize the device in one of it's stores it ends up pretty much standalone.
it becomes a competitor to the Mac. Apple is benefiting right now by making the iPad a PC accessory. Yaknow, alot of people can afford a desktop wintel PC but not a macbook, even though they want one. But they can afford the iPad, and so the iPad becomes their inexpensive laptop. This also begins to become a stealth PC replacement... the ideal outcome for Apple with these customers is they do begin to regard Apple as a viable option, and instead of saving up for wintel notebooks or buying crapware netbooks they instead buy iPads to compliment their desktop PC's. Eventually, they may come to realize that the desktop PC does less and less for them each year as the iPad does more and more.
The end result after this slow boil is Apple = 1, Wintel = 0.
People are already recognizing Apple as a viable PC platform and that has nothing to do with iPad.
Well I won't buy until they do upgrade the SoC. I believe many others would agree with the idea that iPad needs better performance. Besides quad core A9 based SoC are already taping out. By the end of the year a dual core A9 product might look rather sad. In the end though I believe Apple will upgrade the SoC simply because they need to to realize their own goals for the iPad.
I agree that improved SOCs might be less a competitive response than aloowing Apple the means to take the iPad to where they want.
I have a hard time seeing Apple adding an SD slot - it would encourage people to buy the lower-specced product and bring their own storage. If they do, expect to see no more than two option for storage capacity - small and very large.
I agree that improved SOCs might be less a competitive response than aloowing Apple the means to take the iPad to where they want.
I have a hard time seeing Apple adding an SD slot - it would encourage people to buy the lower-specced product and bring their own storage. If they do, expect to see no more than two option for storage capacity - small and very large.
Apple wouldn't allow the SD card to function as extra storage. It would only be for moving pictures from a camera to the iPad. Jailbreaking obviously could change that, but Apple wouldn't do it.
I agree that improved SOCs might be less a competitive response than aloowing Apple the means to take the iPad to where they want.
I have a hard time seeing Apple adding an SD slot - it would encourage people to buy the lower-specced product and bring their own storage. If they do, expect to see no more than two option for storage capacity - small and very large.
There's no need to add an SD slot, functionally I think Apple doesn't believe in the technology. This is a feature that nerds want, not consumers.
There's no need to add an SD slot, functionally I think Apple doesn't believe in the technology. This is a feature that nerds want, not consumers.
Then why'd they put it on all their CONSUMER devices and only leave it off their highest-end PROFESSIONAL (read: nerds) machines?
I'm not agreeing with the iPad-SD-slot-idea, just showing you that Apple cares enough to have included SDXC card slots when SDXC cards don't really even exist yet.
Looks to me like Apple isn't going to drop the ball like they did with CD and DVD capabilities.
Good for Apple but I'm a customer and as such they need to listen to me and others that want more I/O on the device.
Hmm... no they don't.
An SD slot and a USB port would be huge. Admittedly a USB port causes driver issues but still it could be very useful.
HDMI is pretty stupid but USB is not. It is all about flexibility and novel uses.
This strikes me as very un-Apple. But don't take my word for it, lets see how the iPad2 looks when they introduce it. I guarantee that no iPad will ever have HDMI, SD card or USB.
However you don't want to underestimate some of the coming hardware.
There's no reason right now to believe any of the coming hardware will be able to knock the iPad from its throne. And as I said before with that coming hardware, it's coming too late if ever. Half of them probably won't even ship. The ones that do will compete on features and price, and like the iPod has proven, competing with Apple on features and price is a losing bargain.
http://www.engadget.com/features/tablets-at-ces-2011/
Look at the list... many of these supposed ship dates will slip. Why? They're dependent on Honeycomb to deliver on time, fat chance of that. But assuming they even get past the Honeycomb issue, there are a number of problems here: many are 7", which people won't want. Some are by companies that can't deliver, no reason to think they'll be able to get the hardware and glass together in any kind of quantity. Many more haven't declared prices, and losing on price vs Apple is not sustainable. Some will ship tablets with android 2, which may as well be a death sentence. And win7 tablets truly are DOA.
The list is long, but the number of actual tablet competitors can be counted on one hand.
Well I won't buy until they do upgrade the SoC. I believe many others would agree with the idea that iPad needs better performance. Besides quad core A9 based SoC are already taping out. By the end of the year a dual core A9 product might look rather sad. In the end though I believe Apple will upgrade the SoC simply because they need to to realize their own goals for the iPad.
Well that is you but not the vast majority of consumers. All they see is that apps run fast and nimbly, and they do. So nerds will have some problems with the iPad2 if it doesn't get an upgraded CPU, but it won't impact sales one bit.
Your assertion that 'many others' agree that iPad needs better performance just doesn't hold true. I'm sure some minority of geeks and some developers believe this to be true, but for the vast majority of users... no. It runs Angry Birds just great from what I've seen.
However on this point I will grant that if they did upgrade the CPU it would be a welcome surprise. I don't expect it this soon, but if they do it great. I already have an iPad and I'm probably getting an iPad2, and I'm more likely to do it if they upgrade the internals.
The issue of iPad being stand alone is more interesting. I really like the arraingement with my iPhone but frankly I'm not convinced with respect to iPad. However this is an area where competition can impact Apple.
Not having it be standalone is clearly working for them! Like I noted before, alot of people have cheap PCs. These people can't afford Macbooks, but they can afford iPads. The iPad plugs into their PC and now they have an Apple branded 'laptop' they can afford. This relationship is working, no need to change it anytime soon.
Competitors that make their tablets completely standalone from the PC don't really help themselves in terms of sales, in fact it might even hurt them just a bit right now. Again this might be a better proposition for nerds but not so good for average people who already use iTunes.
People are already recognizing Apple as a viable PC platform and that has nothing to do with iPad.
I'll grant you that there are a number of people who want Macbooks who can't afford them, or who have iPods or use iTunes with a somewhat favorable view of Apple. This is to Apple's credit and it's taken a long time for them to build up (rebuild?) that reputation.
I think the iPad further solidifies this though. It does it in a way that the Mac, the iPod and iTunes haven't been able to. The iPad is a PC replacement, whether people realize it or not. Many people will be getting this instead of some other kind of PC, probably a PC notebook or tablet but maybe even desktop hardware.
If it was just a question of getting cheap Apple branded computer hardware, then why didn't the mac mini take off? Why isn't Apple selling 16 million mac minis per quarter? It costs about the same. It's no more or less upgradeable than an iPad (slightly more upgradeable maybe). By most measurable standards it has superior hardware and software, it has lots of ports! Why doesn't that help it? It runs real desktop software, OSX! It has a far more powerful CPU, dual core even!
I have to conclude that many of these hardware features don't matter when it comes to actual sales. What I have to conclude is that people want mobile computing, and they want it in form factors that feel right, run well and reliably. Ports and processors don't matter, as long as the perception is that it does what you want and it's fast. Even the OS doesn't really matter, as long as it works, is trusted and understood. Most people probably make these determinations when they're standing around using one for the first time in an Apple store or Best Buy.
Maybe the iPod touch got them there better than any Mac ever made. Apple has sold alot of iPod touches lately and the iPad is basically a bigger one of those. iPod touches sell really well and are basically very small mobile computers. Average consumers, who aren't into computers but need to do basic things like email and web probably view the iPod touch as a viable PC alternative. I know I have some nominally computer literate relatives who look at it this way.
So maybe you're right, maybe people view Apple as a viable PC platform because of the iPod. If that were true it would make sense for Apple to create a more serious computing platform, the iPad tablet PC, based off the iPod/iPhone rather than the Mac. Which is what they've done, so good for them.
Then why'd they put it on all their CONSUMER devices and only leave it off their highest-end PROFESSIONAL (read: nerds) machines?
I'm not agreeing with the iPad-SD-slot-idea, just showing you that Apple cares enough to have included SDXC card slots when SDXC cards don't really even exist yet.
Looks to me like Apple isn't going to drop the ball like they did with CD and DVD capabilities.
Bleh I think you're trying to get me on a technicality. My point is that Apple won't be putting SD slots into iPads, probably ever, because they can more easily make this decision with a clean slate (uh... you like puns?).
However with traditional PCs there are certain expectations. Yes they will and have often bucked those expectations by killing the floppy drive, or the DVD drive, or getting rid of ADB, ignoring bluray, or whatever. There's not always a clear set of logic behind it either, and it doesn't make sense for everyone. But it makes sense for Apple and so they do it. So there! Or something... I need a cookie.
I agree that improved SOCs might be less a competitive response than aloowing Apple the means to take the iPad to where they want.
I have a hard time seeing Apple adding an SD slot - it would encourage people to buy the lower-specced product and bring their own storage. If they do, expect to see no more than two option for storage capacity - small and very large.
At least in my case this would not happen. The slot would allow for two things of importance to me. One is the fast transfer of files from cameras and two is the storage or backup of movie files. If I'm using my Mac a fairly inexpensive SD card can hold several movies.
A third potential use is for file backup but that would require significant updates from Apple. Either way I just don't see a SD port causing serious issues sales wise. I would still want the biggest unit available for direct internal storage. Plus the current design of the API kinda prevents general purpose usage of the slot.
A final issue with SD is that it would be easy for Apple to support. That is the driver support required is extremely limited. USB on the otherhand is a bag of snakes.
Then why'd they put it on all their CONSUMER devices and only leave it off their highest-end PROFESSIONAL (read: nerds) machines?
I'm not agreeing with the iPad-SD-slot-idea, just showing you that Apple cares enough to have included SDXC card slots when SDXC cards don't really even exist yet.
I'm not sure why the original poster mentally dismissed this factoid. Putting an SD slot in the iPad just makes it a more integrated member of the Apple family of devices.
Looks to me like Apple isn't going to drop the ball like they did with CD and DVD capabilities.
It does appear that they have some sort of plan for SD support. Obviously with the current iOS that plan can't be fully implemented but I'd be very happy with camera integration. Ideally movie playback from the SD cards also.
Hmm... no they don't.
Any company that doesn't ends up at risk of loosing customers. Besides Apple has a long history of listening to customers. They directly addressed a suggestion I made with regards to the Mini.
This strikes me as very un-Apple. But don't take my word for it, lets see how the iPad2 looks when they introduce it. I guarantee that no iPad will ever have HDMI, SD card or USB.
HDMI would be silly but not a SD port. USB is an entirely different matter and would be used extensively if Apple provided a way to load drivers.
There's no reason right now to believe any of the coming hardware will be able to knock the iPad from its throne. And as I said before with that coming hardware, it's coming too late if ever.
Being late to the party doesn't imply that you can't enjoy yourself. There will be successful tablets beyond iPad. It might take awhile but the markets simply don't like unitary line ups.
Half of them probably won't even ship. The ones that do will compete on features and price, and like the iPod has proven, competing with Apple on features and price is a losing bargain.
Your logic escapes me here. Features are always a point of competition.
http://www.engadget.com/features/tablets-at-ces-2011/
Look at the list... many of these supposed ship dates will slip. Why? They're dependent on Honeycomb to deliver on time, fat chance of that.
Frankly I'd rule out any Android tablet as a viable competitor to iPad. Android is a mess.
But assuming they even get past the Honeycomb issue, there are a number of problems here: many are 7", which people won't want.
Now we see you have been brain washed by Stevo. 7" tablets will be very hot once a suitable OS is running on them. Amazon has shown with Kindle that size does matter. For many uses a few inches makes a big difference.
Some are by companies that can't deliver, no reason to think they'll be able to get the hardware and glass together in any kind of quantity. Many more haven't declared prices, and losing on price vs Apple is not sustainable. Some will ship tablets with android 2, which may as well be a death sentence. And win7 tablets truly are DOA.
This thing with price is BS. IPad is a rather high priced device for what it is. As to Win anything at least here we agree DOA.
The list is long, but the number of actual tablet competitors can be counted on one hand.
Well that is you but not the vast majority of consumers. All they see is that apps run fast and nimbly, and they do.
You saying so doesn't make it so. All you need to do is pick up an iPad and use it for something non trivial. If you still think it is fast then you have a very odd perception if time.
So nerds will have some problems with the iPad2 if it doesn't get an upgraded CPU, but it won't impact sales one bit.
Sure it will. For one no incentive for current users to upgrade. For another those waiting for a more viable machine will just hold off longer. Finally it will put a big crimp in software development limiting the growth in non trivial software.
Your assertion that 'many others' agree that iPad needs better performance just doesn't hold true. I'm sure some minority of geeks and some developers believe this to be true, but for the vast majority of users... no. It runs Angry Birds just great from what I've seen.
Angry Birds, come on that game doesn't even stress my 3G. In any event if you put an iPad along side this mythical iPad 2, with a greatly enhanced SoC, it will be very obvious just how slow the current model is.
However on this point I will grant that if they did upgrade the CPU it would be a welcome surprise. I don't expect it this soon, but if they do it great. I already have an iPad and I'm probably getting an iPad2, and I'm more likely to do it if they upgrade the internals.
in a way you support my position here. Thanks.
I don't think this will be a surprise though as they have had just enough time to build the SoC. Further they are well aware of the competition and the pre baked Cortex A9 chips on the market. In the end I don't think Apple has much of a choice.
Not having it be standalone is clearly working for them! Like I noted before, alot of people have cheap PCs. These people can't afford Macbooks, but they can afford iPads. The iPad plugs into their PC and now they have an Apple branded 'laptop' they can afford. This relationship is working, no need to change it anytime soon.
No doubt it is working. However I have a problem with your suggestion that you wouldn't be able to plug in a standalone device for syncing or whatever. A standalone device would not give up features.
Competitors that make their tablets completely standalone from the PC don't really help themselves in terms of sales, in fact it might even hurt them just a bit right now. Again this might be a better proposition for nerds but not so good for average people who already use iTunes.
I don't buy that and infact I'm not sure what your basis is for the claim. A completely standalone tablet would be all that many need. It isn't the nerd that needs standalone devices but rather the casual user.
I'll grant you that there are a number of people who want Macbooks who can't afford them, or who have iPods or use iTunes with a somewhat favorable view of Apple. This is to Apple's credit and it's taken a long time for them to build up (rebuild?) that reputation.
I was one of the original Mac Plus owners and absolutely loved that little machine. When Apple went through that huge decline I switched over to Linux and ran that for years. I watched the development of Mac OS/X very carefully and jumped back on board in 2008. So yeah I have to say Steve has done an excellent job of rebuilding the company. No OS is perfect but Mac OS/X is simply the best offering going for my needs.
I still wish that Apple was mire agressive price wise but the they come out with the MB AIRs. As long as Apple continues to be aggressive pricing new hardware I'm likely to stay with the platform. It is good to see Apple delivering quality products again.
I think the iPad further solidifies this though. It does it in a way that the Mac, the iPod and iTunes haven't been able to. The iPad is a PC replacement, whether people realize it or not. Many people will be getting this instead of some other kind of PC, probably a PC notebook or tablet but maybe even desktop hardware.
This brings us back to the standalone discussion. You are right iPad 2 could be everything many people need. The platform does need a few tweaks though to accel as ones onky computing device.
If it was just a question of getting cheap Apple branded computer hardware, then why didn't the mac mini take off? Why isn't Apple selling 16 million mac minis per quarter? It costs about the same.
Last I knew the Mini was a success. It is not however an XMac. In any event Apples sales have been very strong for the Mac line up so I'm not sure what you point is.
By the way my mention of the XMac highlights my belief that Apple is to big now, their market share too, to not have a more diverse product lineup with respect to Macs.
It's no more or less upgradeable than an iPad (slightly more upgradeable maybe). By most measurable standards it has superior hardware and software, it has lots of ports! Why doesn't that help it? It runs real desktop software, OSX! It has a far more powerful CPU, dual core even!
First why does it matter for this discussion.
Further for many a Mini is actually to little for a desk top machine. In the end you are trying to compare entirely different devices.
I have to conclude that many of these hardware features don't matter when it comes to actual sales. What I have to conclude is that people want mobile computing, and they want it in form factors that feel right, run well and reliably. Ports and processors don't matter, as long as the perception is that it does what you want and it's fast. Even the OS doesn't really matter, as long as it works, is trusted and understood. Most people probably make these determinations when they're standing around using one for the first time in an Apple store or Best Buy.
Nope I think you are just confusing yourself. For example using your reasoning I could say iPad is a failure because it doesn't sell as many units as the iPhone. Of course a reasonable person would say: well yeah the devices serve two entirely different markets. Likewise iPad is defining a new market one that isn't directly related to desktop PC users. On top of all of this Apples Mac sales have significantly outstripped the marjet in general. So really you have no point here.
Maybe the iPod touch got them there better than any Mac ever made. Apple has sold alot of iPod touches lately and the iPad is basically a bigger one of those. iPod touches sell really well and are basically very small mobile computers. Average consumers, who aren't into computers but need to do basic things like email and web probably view the iPod touch as a viable PC alternative. I know I have some nominally computer literate relatives who look at it this way.
Touch, iPhone and the iPad are all computers. Yes very tiny but none the less computers. I don't take this for granted though as even my 3G vastly out strips that old Mac Plus in capability.
So in this regard I don't disagree for many these devices do all that is required. I expect iPad to significantly improve upon that ability.
So maybe you're right, maybe people view Apple as a viable PC platform because of the iPod. If that were true it would make sense for Apple to create a more serious computing platform, the iPad tablet PC, based off the iPod/iPhone rather than the Mac. Which is what they've done, so good for them.
Im not sure you are interpeting the statements right. iPod certainly gave Apple the ability to make the Mac right. In effect it got them through the tough time where OS/X was coming online. I do question if Apple would have been around with out iPods.
Interesting your calling the iPad a more serious computing platform as I look at it as the ultimate casual platform. Even if used professionally I dint see it as a replacement for traditional computers. Rather it is an alternative approach. I see little benefit to absolute statements here as being a computer it can serve the needs of any user that cares to use the platform.
Bleh I think you're trying to get me on a technicality. My point is that Apple won't be putting SD slots into iPads, probably ever, because they can more easily make this decision with a clean slate (uh... you like puns?).
His point was rational. Further Apple was awfully late to the party implementing SD slots so that blows your arguement away.
However with traditional PCs there are certain expectations. Yes they will and have often bucked those expectations by killing the floppy drive, or the DVD drive, or getting rid of ADB, ignoring bluray, or whatever. There's not always a clear set of logic behind it either, and it doesn't make sense for everyone. But it makes sense for Apple and so they do it. So there! Or something... I need a cookie.
The question really comes down to this does such a slot benefit Apple and it's users. If so they implement the tech. Dropping ADB in favor of USB is one very significant example.
Implementing a SD slot in the role of a picture transfer device is almost a no brainer. There is little impact to the OS and the actual hardware is trivial. Of all the things I'd like to see in iPad 2 an SD slot is perhaps the least painless for Apple.
In any event I'm hoping we only have a couple of weeks before we find out. In a way I'm really waiting on iPad just to see where Apple is going here.
At least in my case this would not happen. The slot would allow for two things of importance to me. One is the fast transfer of files from cameras and two is the storage or backup of movie files. If I'm using my Mac a fairly inexpensive SD card can hold several movies.
A third potential use is for file backup but that would require significant updates from Apple. Either way I just don't see a SD port causing serious issues sales wise. I would still want the biggest unit available for direct internal storage. Plus the current design of the API kinda prevents general purpose usage of the slot.
A final issue with SD is that it would be easy for Apple to support. That is the driver support required is extremely limited. USB on the otherhand is a bag of snakes.
You make some compelling arguments for a limited-use SD card slot. I don't know that Apple would care much about moving photos, they would be interested if the card slot meant more people buying from iTunes.
You make some compelling arguments for a limited-use SD card slot. I don't know that Apple would care much about moving photos, they would be interested if the card slot meant more people buying from iTunes.
Apple has to recognize that customer needs on the platform are important too. The iPad with an SD slot would be almost idea for a person traveling and engaged in photography. It means that those important pics can be backed up to online storage from just about anywhere. This is a use case that would sell a lot of iPads.
Of course SD isn't perfect here, most pro cameras use Compact Flash, but it covers the majority of cameras out there. Providing for the storage and play back of movie files is just icing on the cake so to speak. In a nut shell it is Camera Connection Kit capability moved onto the device separate from a dongle.
Beyond that if they opened up access to the file system so that apps could use the storage on a SD card there would be additional sales drivers as a result. Especially for some business usages where you might want to record data in the field to non volatile storage that is transferable. Still I see the number one usage being support of picture transfers, followed closely buy movie storage.
Apple has to recognize that customer needs on the platform are important too. The iPad with an SD slot would be almost idea for a person traveling and engaged in photography. It means that those important pics can be backed up to online storage from just about anywhere. This is a use case that would sell a lot of iPads.
Of course SD isn't perfect here, most pro cameras use Compact Flash, but it covers the majority of cameras out there. Providing for the storage and play back of movie files is just icing on the cake so to speak. In a nut shell it is Camera Connection Kit capability moved onto the device separate from a dongle.
Beyond that if they opened up access to the file system so that apps could use the storage on a SD card there would be additional sales drivers as a result. Especially for some business usages where you might want to record data in the field to non volatile storage that is transferable. Still I see the number one usage being support of picture transfers, followed closely buy movie storage.
Apple won't be adding an SD slot to the iPad now or ever. I'll be shocked if they do. No worries though, we'll see won't we?
Apple won't be adding an SD slot to the iPad now or ever. I'll be shocked if they do. No worries though, we'll see won't we?
Of all the additions speculated about this is one of the easier ones for Apple to implement. Plus it satisfys both customer demand and works well with other Apple initiatives.
Of all the additions speculated about this is one of the easier ones for Apple to implement. Plus it satisfys both customer demand and works well with other Apple initiatives.
I don't think so.
Any company that doesn't ends up at risk of loosing customers. Besides Apple has a long history of listening to customers. They directly addressed a suggestion I made with regards to the Mini.
HDMI would be silly but not a SD port. USB is an entirely different matter and would be used extensively if Apple provided a way to load drivers.
Being late to the party doesn't imply that you can't enjoy yourself. There will be successful tablets beyond iPad. It might take awhile but the markets simply don't like unitary line ups.
Practically and functionally speaking, the iPad doesn't need an SD port. It would be silly to add one. The future is wireless. Not more mechanics/moving parts/lack of solid state. In any case an SD port on an iPad would mess with Stevie's feng shui, if you want the real reason why it won't happen. But keep bugging Apple for one all you want.
You are right that USB won't happen. Same for HDMI. Legacy ports are just that... legacy. There I said it.
Your logic escapes me here. Features are always a point of competition.
Features are something that competitors have always had on Apple over the various iPod and iOS devices, and it never helped them before. No reason to believe it will help them now. That is the logic here. Consider it Apple Market logic, if that works for you.
Frankly I'd rule out any Android tablet as a viable competitor to iPad. Android is a mess.
Well now you're underestimating Android, that's not something I would do.
Now we see you have been brain washed by Stevo. 7" tablets will be very hot once a suitable OS is running on them. Amazon has shown with Kindle that size does matter. For many uses a few inches makes a big difference.
No. 7" tablets don't work, whether they be kindle or whatever. It's too small! A 4" screen works for ultramobile cell phone computing. The next usable size is 9-11", where you have enough space for reasonable tablet computing or book reading. It's distinctly different enough from the really small stuff to be its own thing. 7" tweener tablets are neither here nor there, and users will by and large find them impractical.
You saying so doesn't make it so. All you need to do is pick up an iPad and use it for something non trivial. If you still think it is fast then you have a very odd perception if time.
I'm saying I don't expect a major CPU upgrade this year. And it is fast enough, plenty fast for most tasks people want to do now. Maybe you haven't played Infinity Blade on the iPad, or use Safari on a regular basis with it, or Mail. These run great, and for now that's what matters.
That said, if they do a CPU upgrade this soon I'll be pleasantly surprised. I won't kick it out of bed. I just don't think they will and I don't think they need to, yet.
This brings us back to the standalone discussion. You are right iPad 2 could be everything many people need. The platform does need a few tweaks though to accel as ones onky computing device.
As far as I'm concerned this is the future of Apple. Like the Apple II the Mac will eventually go the way of the dodo, but nobody is ready to talk about that yet.
Last I knew the Mini was a success. It is not however an XMac. In any event Apples sales have been very strong for the Mac line up so I'm not sure what you point is.
The Mini is successful... for a Mac. It has nowhere near the iPad sales at what is functionally the same price. What does that tell you? What does that tell Apple?
Further for many a Mini is actually to little for a desk top machine. In the end you are trying to compare entirely different devices.
Nope. It's a computer. I'm comparing a computer to a computer.
Nope I think you are just confusing yourself. For example using your reasoning I could say iPad is a failure because it doesn't sell as many units as the iPhone.
Wrong again. You can't say that because you wouldn't be comparing the devices at comparable points in their releases. But I'm sure that iPad sales in its first quarter far outstrip Mac Mini sales in its first quarter, and that is one of the few bottom lines that matter here.
Fun sparring with ya, but I think I put it to rest.
Ok, I'm not going to waste alot of time on this. But just to set the record straight on a few items...
Practically and functionally speaking, the iPad doesn't need an SD port. It would be silly to add one.
That is your opinion but it isn't a majority opinion by any means. The fact is an SD slot adds a certain functionality that any consumers would make use of.
The future is wireless. Not more mechanics/moving parts/lack of solid state. In any case an SD port on an iPad would mess with Stevie's feng shui, if you want the real reason why it won't happen. But keep bugging Apple for one all you want.
Well maybe if Apple buys Nikon. The problem is the there are many camera makers all with their own niches to fill. It isn't likely that there will be a standard wireless tech for connecting to all of these, that is cheap enough to implement, any time soon.
You are right that USB won't happen. Same for HDMI. Legacy ports are just that... legacy. There I said it.
Legacy doesn't equal bad. As to HDMI I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up.
Features are something that competitors have always had on Apple over the various iPod and iOS devices, and it never helped them before. No reason to believe it will help them now. That is the logic here. Consider it Apple Market logic, if that works for you.
Apple has lost markets where it didn't compete fully. It is nice to look at Apple success but you can't dismiss the failures.
Well now you're underestimating Android, that's not something I would do.
In its current form there is no underestimating. Maybe and that is a very big maybe they will get things straight in the tablet release but I'm not holding my breath. It is interesting though that you support Android here but yet a paragraph above was discounting competition based on features. You can't have it both ways.
No. 7" tablets don't work, whether they be kindle or whatever. It's too small! A 4" screen works for ultramobile cell phone computing. The next usable size is 9-11", where you have enough space for reasonable tablet computing or book reading. It's distinctly different enough from the really small stuff to be its own thing. 7" tweener tablets are neither here nor there, and users will by and large find them impractical.
Well stick your head in the sand if you want but over the holiday I took a driving vacation across a good portion of the country and saw a lot more Kindles than I did iPads. In fact I can't remember seeing any iPads. IPad is just to big for many uses, if you can't wrap your head around that then I can't help you.
I'm saying I don't expect a major CPU upgrade this year. And it is fast enough, plenty fast for most tasks people want to do now. Maybe you haven't played Infinity Blade on the iPad, or use Safari on a regular basis with it, or Mail. These run great, and for now that's what matters.
Funny but it is the behavior of Safari that is one of the reasons I mentioned the performance issue in the first place. If you have lower standards that is fine by me but I'm always a little ticked when my GUI becomes sluggish.
That said, if they do a CPU upgrade this soon I'll be pleasantly surprised. I won't kick it out of bed. I just don't think they will and I don't think they need to, yet.
Well I think they need to and frankly I suspect Apple feels the same way, iPad isn't even competitive with iPhone 4 and likely won't be competitive with iPhone 5 if they don't do something. In any event we really shouldn't be comparing iPad to cell phones, it should be in a class of performance that is a step above whatever iPhone is shipping instead of a step back.
I'm pretty much convinced that they need to as soon as possible. The platform is really hurting because of the current computing hardware installed.
As far as I'm concerned this is the future of Apple. Like the Apple II the Mac will eventually go the way of the dodo, but nobody is ready to talk about that yet.
Actually I see the opposite the Mac will get even stronger as it becomes the digital lifestyle hub that Apple alluded to a few years ago. It might end up integrated into a TV of a file server for a closet but it will still be a Mac.
The Mini is successful... for a Mac. It has nowhere near the iPad sales at what is functionally the same price. What does that tell you? What does that tell Apple?
Relative to Mac slaes the Mini has been successful. The problem is you are comparing Apples to Plums here. As I said the same reasoning would make the iPad look like a failure if compared to an iPhone. Failure to recognize the different markets here is your problem.
Beyond all of that the iPad is really the first viable tablet device to come around in recent times. No body has owned a similar device thus strong sales to fill an open void. You can not compare that market to the mature market that is the PC industry.
Nope. It's a computer. I'm comparing a computer to a computer.
So is my iPhone. However it is not in any way comparable to a laptop or desktop PC.
Wrong again. You can't say that because you wouldn't be comparing the devices at comparable points in their releases. But I'm sure that iPad sales in its first quarter far outstrip Mac Mini sales in its first quarter, and that is one of the few bottom lines that matter here.
Obviously you have problem realizing the difference in markets here. IPad fills a need that has never been filled before, neither by Apple nor by any other computer maker. It is not the traditional PC market at all. In other words they are selling into a vacuum that at the moment can take whatever they make. It really isn't the Mac market at all as Mac sales are stronger than ever.
Fun sparring with ya, but I think I put it to rest.
Actually I do enjoy your comments as it does cause one to think. As to putting it to rest, well I'm waiting for iPad 2 which I hope is coming real soon now. That will put the discussion to rest for this rev. As it is iPad 2 will have lots of new tech anyway you look at it.
Well stick your head in the sand if you want but over the holiday I took a driving vacation across a good portion of the country and saw a lot more Kindles than I did iPads. In fact I can't remember seeing any iPads. IPad is just to big for many uses, if you can't wrap your head around that then I can't help you.
I agree with just about everything in your post except the above. Comparing the iPad to the Kindle tells us very little about screen-size preferences since they are a different class of devices both in terms of feature set and price.
At any rate, I will not be particularly surprised if Apple introduces a smaller format iPad.