Yes. I have several St's. It did have a better screen, esp. In greyscale. Atari had a lot of firsts. The first monitor to refresh higher than 60Hz. It worked at 70. While a number of wags said that; "You know Atari, they have to be different", the monitor was rock stable. No flickering at all in a time when every monitor, including The Mac's did.
Then it was the first machine to sell for a buck per megabyte of RAM. First machine was the 512, the second was the 1024. I upgraded my machines to 4 Mb by soldering more memory to the chips already there. Fun days.
Publishing Partner, later changed to Pagestream because of a trademark dispute, was as powerful as Pagemaker. I made a number of fonts for it, as early versions didn't use the new Adobe standard. Then I also had Calamus. This was the first time you could see fonts on the screen that were rendered from the vector version rather than using crude bitmaps. This came two years, at least, before Adobe's ATM. Both programs are still around, and work on the Mac and on the PC.
I also still have my three St's, plus a bunch of stuff for them, though I did give the greyscale monitor away. I still have the color version.
It was sad that the Tramile's screwed the company up after initial great success.
I agree with you that the UI is pretty much the same. We get more icons on the screen than we do with the phone, and we get more apps in folders, a lot more. That's worthy of looking different. I don't agree that it wastes the screen to not have even more. The screen looks less crowded than does the screen for the phone. Too many icons would look terrible. I'm sure Apple had a number of units on the table in front of them and decided that this looked best, while giving us a significant increase.
They also made the icons different pixel sizes, instead of just expanding iOS/iPhone icons to fit the smaller PPI. They also allowed for more space between icons, which you noted by saying it looked less cramped. They also allowed the Home Screen to be rotated to all possible orientations. That?s just the Home Screen, that?s recoding iOS/CocoaTouch specifically for the iPad.
If we say that iPad and iPhone/Touch UIs are exactly the same because they use CocoaTouch to build it, I suppose we need to say that the iOS flavors and Mac OS X are also the exact same because they use OS X/Darwin.
Do we say that Windows desktop and WinMo are the same because they wrote WinMo to mimic Windows desktop as much as possible. Of course not. There are familiar element but that is all we can say.
People, there is just too much insulting going on here today. I gave the first infraction I've given in a long time. Please don't make me give more out.
They also made the icons different pixel sizes, instead of just expanding iOS/iPhone icons to fit the smaller PPI. They also allowed for more space between icons, which you noted by saying it looked less cramped. They also allowed the Home Screen to be rotated to all possible orientations. That’s just the Home Screen, that’s recoding iOS/CocoaTouch specifically for the iPad.
If we say that iPad and iPhone/Touch UIs are exactly the same because they use CocoaTouch to build it, I suppose we need to say that the iOS flavors and Mac OS X are also the exact same because they use OS X/Darwin.
Do we say that Windows desktop and WinMo are the same because they wrote WinMo to mimic Windows desktop as much as possible. Of course not. There are familiar element but that is all we can say.
Sure. While they could do a wildly different UI on the much bigger, higher Rez screen, and there could be a case made for that, there's an advantage to doing it basically the same. People come from the phone/touch and know immediately how to work it. Little new to hold them back. Honeycomb is so different from the phone version that it's almost like an entirely different OS on the surface. Google is deliberately telling people that their tablet is different.
But they are making so many moves that are blatantly aimed at Apple, that I wouldn't be surprised if this was done for that reason too. It's a way for them to pretend that the iPad is just a big phone, the way all the Android tablets out now are. They can point to honeycomb tablets and say; "See, our tablet looks different from our phones, that must make it better". Meanwhile, it just makes it harder for developers.
Sure. While they could do a wildly different UI on the much bigger, higher Rez screen, and there could be a case made for that, there's an advantage to doing it basically the same. People come from the phone/touch and know immediately how to work it. Little new to hold them back. Honeycomb is so different from the phone version that it's almost like an entirely different OS on the surface. Google is deliberately telling people that their tablet is different.
But they are making so many moves that are blatantly aimed at Apple, that I wouldn't be surprised if this was done for that reason too. It's a way for them to pretend that the iPad is just a big phone, the way all the Android tablets out now are. They can point to honeycomb tablets and say; "See, our tablet looks different from our phones, that must make it better". Meanwhile, it just makes it harder for developers.
It does look that way. Google and RiM seem to be trying to make it looks completely different UI (though RiM has an excuse), while MS, as previously noted went the has tried to make it?s WiMo UI as close to their desktop as possible. At least MS is designing their WP7 for the device, I just hope they follow Apple?s lead and make it familiar when they redesign it for a tablet. I think it?s the familiar part that makes some think it?s the same UI, but as you know I think that?s an erroneous assumption.
People, there is just too much insulting going on here today. I gave the first infraction I've given in a long time. Please don't make me give more out.
It's not just today, its every day for the past several months. Its always the same posters, or the same retread sock-puppets of previously banned posters doing the intentional stirring. The non-troll folk here have had enough of it and aren't putting up with anywhere near as much of it as they have in the past couple months.
I haven't posted much in the past couple days because it would be utterly pointless with how unbound the trolling is here now. It's getting close to just folding up the bookmark and moving on because the enjoyment and sense of community is lacking. Everywhere changes, but as long as the community doesn't go toxic it's just a change and we roll with it. But the toxicity here is rising above a healthy level IMNSHO.
I appreciate the volunteerism aspect and time put in to keep things running by the mods and admins. And not to make your, the other mods or admins jobs any harder, but the jobs might be easier if a certain very regular element found they weren't free to troll and embed themselves in the fabric of the community like bedbugs.
It's like pre-PoliticalOutsider fighting has become the norm in all threads without the governmental politics arguments that made it necessary to give that it's own sub-forum in the first place. I don't go there and never have because it was so bad back in the pre-day. It's not good to be seeing the same thing everywhere else.
For those who are new here sprockkets rarely feels the need to restrict himself to facts. Actually, almost never.
Do you need a /s tag for you? I mean come on, you act as if I can't make fun of DED's writing style, as in, acerbic, polarizing, or you know less now than you did before lol.
Where did he use it incorrectly? The term ?resolution independence? is well known and means exactly what you said in the last sentence, which is exactly the issue Mac OS has with using higher resolution displays, just as he stated.
Agreed. The poster of that comment is merely displaying their ignorance of the issues and terminology.
It's not just today, its every day for the past several months. Its always the same posters, or the same retread sock-puppets of previously banned posters doing the intentional stirring. The non-troll folk here have had enough of it and aren't putting up with anywhere near as much of it as they have in the past couple months.
I haven't posted much in the past couple days because it would be utterly pointless with how unbound the trolling is here now. It's getting close to just folding up the bookmark and moving on because the enjoyment and sense of community is lacking. Everywhere changes, but as long as the community doesn't go toxic it's just a change and we roll with it. But the toxicity here is rising above a healthy level IMNSHO.
I appreciate the volunteerism aspect and time put in to keep things running by the mods and admins. And not to make your, the other mods or admins jobs any harder, but the jobs might be easier if a certain very regular element found they weren't free to troll and embed themselves in the fabric of the community like bedbugs.
It's like pre-PoliticalOutsider fighting has become the norm in all threads without the governmental politics arguments that made it necessary to give that it's own sub-forum in the first place. I don't go there and never have because it was so bad back in the pre-day. It's not good to be seeing the same thing everywhere else.
I speak to some people privately, and sometimes it helps. But it can be difficult to decide just who is really trolling, and who seems to be trolling, but who is not. Some people accused of trolling come down on both sides. I'm seeing this in the thread. But no matter how much some people don't like it, people should be allowed to have their say, as long as they don't do it in a taunting manner. Simply stating opinions is not enough. Calling people names is never a way to answer someone else. I get hot myself, and am not a shrinking violet. If I think someone is trolling, I'll say it. But saying that a position is idiotic is one thing, calling a person an idiot is another. The first I'll usually allow-to a certain point, but not the second.
If people really don't like another's posts, they can ignore them, or turn them off. I used to do that to some people, but now I can't, being a mod.
An iPad with the rumoured specs would be amazing and beautiful and I'd want one for about a minute. Then I'd walk away because it's still too big to take with me everywhere.
The point behind the iPad is not to have a device to take everywhere. The point is for a device that is ideal for puttering around, doing casual computing, personal media consumption, etc.
Why make a device that is seriously compromised to accommodate portability when in fact the device is not meant for such uses in the first place. All you do is make it less suited to the tasks for which people are flocking to the iPad in extraordinary numbers.
Apple thinks the UI is different, especially since it recommends a different UI on the iPad that is not available on the iPhone.
Furthermore Apple thinks 7" is too big for the one UI and too small for the other. I disagree with SJ that it's not possible that a UI could be envisioned for a 7" device but clear Apple's UIs don't work for that size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilimanjaro
Now if only they can think of a better way to improve the notification in iOS, this is one of the things I missed most from Android smartphone..
+1 I've been moaning on apple.com/feedback for a while now (since 2.x days) and no improvement. Although unless I'm imagining it under 4.2 they demand less attention than they did previously. i.e. you aren't necessarily forced into the notifying app when unlocking the screen.
For the iPhone iOS5 needs to address notifications. For the iPad (not an iPad user here) I think the file handling is a priority for the iPad to play well in the corporate environment. On that subject I really don't see an SD slot on the iPad: the extra storage being removable makes little sense in the iOS we understand today.
People, there is just too much insulting going on here today. I gave the first infraction I've given in a long time. Please don't make me give more out.
Well calling someone a *********************** is quite tame. If I were to call him a person who ***** ***** ****** and **** **** ******, well, that would be more of a ban eh?
It's interesting to look at something Adobe has been looking into. Right now, there are two Adobe apps for the iPad. Both are pretty good at the limited things they do. Adobe, through John Nack's blog, issued a survey as to whether photographers wanted an app for the iPad that would do more than their app does now as far as organizing photos went.
What they got, was photographers saying that no, they didn't want that. What they wanted was Lightroom. I was one of them. But right now, an app like that can't be written. One reason is RAM, but more importantly, Apple is sandboxing RAW images in such a way that doesn't allow that work to be done. I hope that with the new iPad, they will open that up, as it's in very big demand. At least, do it in the summer, with iOS 5.
I actually didn't know that Adobe had gotten such feedback. As to RAW photo access Apple does need to work on that. Of course right now trying to do anything with RAW on the ipad would be very frustrating for the programmer and probably the user if an app was ever written. Hopefully iPad 2 will come with enough RAM to allow Apple to open things up a bit.
My goal for an iPad App would be for local storage on the go and the ability to mirror or back up to the web. Admittedly I've cut back a whole bunch with respect to photography but even so this is something I'm still interested in. I don't really think people understand how limited the current iPad is due to the lack of RAM, you see it in the apps that have not yet come to the platform. This just has me really interested in just what iPad2 will be able to do.
Great article - truly well thought out and highly analytical. But it begs contemplating how existing iPad applications and content will render properly at this doubled resolution. A related issue is that many iPad developers simply don't develop iPad applications and content on Macs that support this resolution (mostly MacBook Pros). How will they test/view their work unless they have 2048x1536 or larger resolution displays? And possibly the biggest consideration, what about Facetime video chat? The iPad's front-facing camera video resolution won't be much better than VGA - possibly 720p. Facetime video will look very blocky if it's scaled up, no?
Well calling someone a *********************** is quite tame. If I were to call him a person who ***** ***** ****** and **** **** ******, well, that would be more of a ban eh?
No one has to call anyone anything. Object to what's being said. Even make some fun of it if it's thought to be to weird. Just don't call anyone any names, or allude to it.
I actually didn't know that Adobe had gotten such feedback. As to RAW photo access Apple does need to work on that. Of course right now trying to do anything with RAW on the ipad would be very frustrating for the programmer and probably the user if an app was ever written. Hopefully iPad 2 will come with enough RAM to allow Apple to open things up a bit.
My goal for an iPad App would be for local storage on the go and the ability to mirror or back up to the web. Admittedly I've cut back a whole bunch with respect to photography but even so this is something I'm still interested in. I don't really think people understand how limited the current iPad is due to the lack of RAM, you see it in the apps that have not yet come to the platform. This just has me really interested in just what iPad2 will be able to do.
I tell you what man... if the new iPad really has double the current resolution... I will be dumping my Galaxy Tab for one... that would be pretty special.
Comments
and Atari ST
"Other graphical desktop operating systems, including the Amiga, Atari ST and Apple's IIGS, used non-square pixels"
NOT TRUE.
Atari ST, beside TV output, have Atari SM 124 (12" black and white monitor with 640x400 resolution) which was even sharpen than Mac monitor.
btw I own them both even todat! take a look: http://milan.kovac.cc/sr/oldschool.php
Yes. I have several St's. It did have a better screen, esp. In greyscale. Atari had a lot of firsts. The first monitor to refresh higher than 60Hz. It worked at 70. While a number of wags said that; "You know Atari, they have to be different", the monitor was rock stable. No flickering at all in a time when every monitor, including The Mac's did.
Then it was the first machine to sell for a buck per megabyte of RAM. First machine was the 512, the second was the 1024. I upgraded my machines to 4 Mb by soldering more memory to the chips already there. Fun days.
Publishing Partner, later changed to Pagestream because of a trademark dispute, was as powerful as Pagemaker. I made a number of fonts for it, as early versions didn't use the new Adobe standard. Then I also had Calamus. This was the first time you could see fonts on the screen that were rendered from the vector version rather than using crude bitmaps. This came two years, at least, before Adobe's ATM. Both programs are still around, and work on the Mac and on the PC.
I also still have my three St's, plus a bunch of stuff for them, though I did give the greyscale monitor away. I still have the color version.
It was sad that the Tramile's screwed the company up after initial great success.
I agree with you that the UI is pretty much the same. We get more icons on the screen than we do with the phone, and we get more apps in folders, a lot more. That's worthy of looking different. I don't agree that it wastes the screen to not have even more. The screen looks less crowded than does the screen for the phone. Too many icons would look terrible. I'm sure Apple had a number of units on the table in front of them and decided that this looked best, while giving us a significant increase.
They also made the icons different pixel sizes, instead of just expanding iOS/iPhone icons to fit the smaller PPI. They also allowed for more space between icons, which you noted by saying it looked less cramped. They also allowed the Home Screen to be rotated to all possible orientations. That?s just the Home Screen, that?s recoding iOS/CocoaTouch specifically for the iPad.
If we say that iPad and iPhone/Touch UIs are exactly the same because they use CocoaTouch to build it, I suppose we need to say that the iOS flavors and Mac OS X are also the exact same because they use OS X/Darwin.
Do we say that Windows desktop and WinMo are the same because they wrote WinMo to mimic Windows desktop as much as possible. Of course not. There are familiar element but that is all we can say.
They also made the icons different pixel sizes, instead of just expanding iOS/iPhone icons to fit the smaller PPI. They also allowed for more space between icons, which you noted by saying it looked less cramped. They also allowed the Home Screen to be rotated to all possible orientations. That’s just the Home Screen, that’s recoding iOS/CocoaTouch specifically for the iPad.
If we say that iPad and iPhone/Touch UIs are exactly the same because they use CocoaTouch to build it, I suppose we need to say that the iOS flavors and Mac OS X are also the exact same because they use OS X/Darwin.
Do we say that Windows desktop and WinMo are the same because they wrote WinMo to mimic Windows desktop as much as possible. Of course not. There are familiar element but that is all we can say.
Sure. While they could do a wildly different UI on the much bigger, higher Rez screen, and there could be a case made for that, there's an advantage to doing it basically the same. People come from the phone/touch and know immediately how to work it. Little new to hold them back. Honeycomb is so different from the phone version that it's almost like an entirely different OS on the surface. Google is deliberately telling people that their tablet is different.
But they are making so many moves that are blatantly aimed at Apple, that I wouldn't be surprised if this was done for that reason too. It's a way for them to pretend that the iPad is just a big phone, the way all the Android tablets out now are. They can point to honeycomb tablets and say; "See, our tablet looks different from our phones, that must make it better". Meanwhile, it just makes it harder for developers.
Sure. While they could do a wildly different UI on the much bigger, higher Rez screen, and there could be a case made for that, there's an advantage to doing it basically the same. People come from the phone/touch and know immediately how to work it. Little new to hold them back. Honeycomb is so different from the phone version that it's almost like an entirely different OS on the surface. Google is deliberately telling people that their tablet is different.
But they are making so many moves that are blatantly aimed at Apple, that I wouldn't be surprised if this was done for that reason too. It's a way for them to pretend that the iPad is just a big phone, the way all the Android tablets out now are. They can point to honeycomb tablets and say; "See, our tablet looks different from our phones, that must make it better". Meanwhile, it just makes it harder for developers.
It does look that way. Google and RiM seem to be trying to make it looks completely different UI (though RiM has an excuse), while MS, as previously noted went the has tried to make it?s WiMo UI as close to their desktop as possible. At least MS is designing their WP7 for the device, I just hope they follow Apple?s lead and make it familiar when they redesign it for a tablet. I think it?s the familiar part that makes some think it?s the same UI, but as you know I think that?s an erroneous assumption.
People, there is just too much insulting going on here today. I gave the first infraction I've given in a long time. Please don't make me give more out.
It's not just today, its every day for the past several months. Its always the same posters, or the same retread sock-puppets of previously banned posters doing the intentional stirring. The non-troll folk here have had enough of it and aren't putting up with anywhere near as much of it as they have in the past couple months.
I haven't posted much in the past couple days because it would be utterly pointless with how unbound the trolling is here now. It's getting close to just folding up the bookmark and moving on because the enjoyment and sense of community is lacking. Everywhere changes, but as long as the community doesn't go toxic it's just a change and we roll with it. But the toxicity here is rising above a healthy level IMNSHO.
I appreciate the volunteerism aspect and time put in to keep things running by the mods and admins. And not to make your, the other mods or admins jobs any harder, but the jobs might be easier if a certain very regular element found they weren't free to troll and embed themselves in the fabric of the community like bedbugs.
It's like pre-PoliticalOutsider fighting has become the norm in all threads without the governmental politics arguments that made it necessary to give that it's own sub-forum in the first place. I don't go there and never have because it was so bad back in the pre-day. It's not good to be seeing the same thing everywhere else.
I do believe you meant to say 'drivel'.
Yeah, that makes more sense, though his article contains a bunch of little facts so it kinda fits haha.
For those who are new here sprockkets rarely feels the need to restrict himself to facts. Actually, almost never.
Do you need a /s tag for you? I mean come on, you act as if I can't make fun of DED's writing style, as in, acerbic, polarizing, or you know less now than you did before lol.
Where did he use it incorrectly? The term ?resolution independence? is well known and means exactly what you said in the last sentence, which is exactly the issue Mac OS has with using higher resolution displays, just as he stated.
Agreed. The poster of that comment is merely displaying their ignorance of the issues and terminology.
It's not just today, its every day for the past several months. Its always the same posters, or the same retread sock-puppets of previously banned posters doing the intentional stirring. The non-troll folk here have had enough of it and aren't putting up with anywhere near as much of it as they have in the past couple months.
I haven't posted much in the past couple days because it would be utterly pointless with how unbound the trolling is here now. It's getting close to just folding up the bookmark and moving on because the enjoyment and sense of community is lacking. Everywhere changes, but as long as the community doesn't go toxic it's just a change and we roll with it. But the toxicity here is rising above a healthy level IMNSHO.
I appreciate the volunteerism aspect and time put in to keep things running by the mods and admins. And not to make your, the other mods or admins jobs any harder, but the jobs might be easier if a certain very regular element found they weren't free to troll and embed themselves in the fabric of the community like bedbugs.
It's like pre-PoliticalOutsider fighting has become the norm in all threads without the governmental politics arguments that made it necessary to give that it's own sub-forum in the first place. I don't go there and never have because it was so bad back in the pre-day. It's not good to be seeing the same thing everywhere else.
I speak to some people privately, and sometimes it helps. But it can be difficult to decide just who is really trolling, and who seems to be trolling, but who is not. Some people accused of trolling come down on both sides. I'm seeing this in the thread. But no matter how much some people don't like it, people should be allowed to have their say, as long as they don't do it in a taunting manner. Simply stating opinions is not enough. Calling people names is never a way to answer someone else. I get hot myself, and am not a shrinking violet. If I think someone is trolling, I'll say it. But saying that a position is idiotic is one thing, calling a person an idiot is another. The first I'll usually allow-to a certain point, but not the second.
If people really don't like another's posts, they can ignore them, or turn them off. I used to do that to some people, but now I can't, being a mod.
+1
An iPad with the rumoured specs would be amazing and beautiful and I'd want one for about a minute. Then I'd walk away because it's still too big to take with me everywhere.
The point behind the iPad is not to have a device to take everywhere. The point is for a device that is ideal for puttering around, doing casual computing, personal media consumption, etc.
Why make a device that is seriously compromised to accommodate portability when in fact the device is not meant for such uses in the first place. All you do is make it less suited to the tasks for which people are flocking to the iPad in extraordinary numbers.
Apple thinks the UI is different, especially since it recommends a different UI on the iPad that is not available on the iPhone.
Furthermore Apple thinks 7" is too big for the one UI and too small for the other. I disagree with SJ that it's not possible that a UI could be envisioned for a 7" device but clear Apple's UIs don't work for that size.
Now if only they can think of a better way to improve the notification in iOS, this is one of the things I missed most from Android smartphone..
+1 I've been moaning on apple.com/feedback for a while now (since 2.x days) and no improvement. Although unless I'm imagining it under 4.2 they demand less attention than they did previously. i.e. you aren't necessarily forced into the notifying app when unlocking the screen.
For the iPhone iOS5 needs to address notifications. For the iPad (not an iPad user here) I think the file handling is a priority for the iPad to play well in the corporate environment. On that subject I really don't see an SD slot on the iPad: the extra storage being removable makes little sense in the iOS we understand today.
People, there is just too much insulting going on here today. I gave the first infraction I've given in a long time. Please don't make me give more out.
Well calling someone a *********************** is quite tame. If I were to call him a person who ***** ***** ****** and **** **** ******, well, that would be more of a ban eh?
It's interesting to look at something Adobe has been looking into. Right now, there are two Adobe apps for the iPad. Both are pretty good at the limited things they do. Adobe, through John Nack's blog, issued a survey as to whether photographers wanted an app for the iPad that would do more than their app does now as far as organizing photos went.
What they got, was photographers saying that no, they didn't want that. What they wanted was Lightroom. I was one of them. But right now, an app like that can't be written. One reason is RAM, but more importantly, Apple is sandboxing RAW images in such a way that doesn't allow that work to be done. I hope that with the new iPad, they will open that up, as it's in very big demand. At least, do it in the summer, with iOS 5.
I actually didn't know that Adobe had gotten such feedback. As to RAW photo access Apple does need to work on that. Of course right now trying to do anything with RAW on the ipad would be very frustrating for the programmer and probably the user if an app was ever written. Hopefully iPad 2 will come with enough RAM to allow Apple to open things up a bit.
My goal for an iPad App would be for local storage on the go and the ability to mirror or back up to the web. Admittedly I've cut back a whole bunch with respect to photography but even so this is something I'm still interested in. I don't really think people understand how limited the current iPad is due to the lack of RAM, you see it in the apps that have not yet come to the platform. This just has me really interested in just what iPad2 will be able to do.
Well calling someone a *********************** is quite tame. If I were to call him a person who ***** ***** ****** and **** **** ******, well, that would be more of a ban eh?
No one has to call anyone anything. Object to what's being said. Even make some fun of it if it's thought to be to weird. Just don't call anyone any names, or allude to it.
I actually didn't know that Adobe had gotten such feedback. As to RAW photo access Apple does need to work on that. Of course right now trying to do anything with RAW on the ipad would be very frustrating for the programmer and probably the user if an app was ever written. Hopefully iPad 2 will come with enough RAM to allow Apple to open things up a bit.
My goal for an iPad App would be for local storage on the go and the ability to mirror or back up to the web. Admittedly I've cut back a whole bunch with respect to photography but even so this is something I'm still interested in. I don't really think people understand how limited the current iPad is due to the lack of RAM, you see it in the apps that have not yet come to the platform. This just has me really interested in just what iPad2 will be able to do.
We can access RAW photos. I use this:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/con...=7-10058-11099
Quite remarkable! But we can't do much more with them.
And I mentioned this product in another thread:
http://www.airstash.com/
I've ordered one.
Great while it lasted. Of course he or his source could be wrong or disinformed. He's taking bets.
http://daringfireball.net/